Replacement for the M-16?

[SkilletsUSMC]

THERE HAVE BEEN MORE BAD GUY'S SNUFFED,BY THE 5.56 RND. THAT YOU CAN IMAGINE!WHY DO YOU THINK,THE RUSSIAN'S & THE CHINA MAN;WENT THAT WAY?AFTER ALL WHAT IS A HUMAN BUT A MERE TWO LEGGED VARMIT!AFTER WE HANDED OVER OUR M-14'S,IN THE BUSH TOO THE AR-15;OUR BODY COUNT DOUBLED!WE WERE A RIFLE CO.THAT TOOK OUR MISSION'S DEAD SERIOUS,ENOUGH SO TO EARN TWO PUC'S IN LESS THAN A YEAR!!! WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT KILLING,ENLIGHTEN ME???

I dont think your post was directed towards me, but i know that a 5.56 doesnt drop a man on the spot like a 7.62x51 Insurgents are using adrenaline and cocaine to absorb damage. We need a harder hitting round such as the 6.8 SPC. BTW 6.8 rounds fit inside of 5.56 magazines, and I think the links work with both as well.

[SkilletsUSMC]

FIST, are you directing the 'killin' comment to me or Sun? LOL...

I've done what I had to do killin wise. Nuff said.

I do know, tho, from personal and unpleasant experience, that underpowered handguns are just about worthless in an up close and personal 'encounter'. I'd prefer to arm myself with something that has "1 round" knockdown power, such as the .45 or some such.

Interesting that you are one of the few Marines I've heard with something good to say about the AR-15/M-16. I assume you never had an issue with stoppages or jams in the 'bush'? I'm just curious, since I've heard so much about that particular issue.

BTW, I have zero 'trigger' time in the USMC. All mine comes from Law Enforcement.

The Vast majority of all jams in the M16 are magazine related. I fired my m16 after dust storms with zero jams. One bad mag though will really screw the system up.

[FistFu68]

(LMAO)SGT.L~SONBOY,WOULD PROBABLY WALK POINT WITH A (LAW)!THE CONG WERE NOTORIOUS,FOR SMOKING OPIUM,EATING SPEED;BEFORE ENGAGING US!BUT WE PULLED A FEW SURPRISE'S IN OUR DAY,NEVER SAW ONE OF THOSE BASTARD'S SURVIVE,A SHOT SENT TO THE CORRECT ADDRESS(HEAD SHOT)!MOST OF OUR CHIT WAS UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL! CLEANING WAS CONSTANT,ALSO CHECKING OUR BRASS FOR NIC'S OR BURR'S;OVERLOOKING SUCH A SMALL DETAIL;COULD BECOME VERY HAZARDOUS TOO YOU'R HEALTH! I AGREE ON YOU'R TAKE ON THE .45ACP!!!

[SuNmAN]

FIST, are you directing the 'killin' comment to me or Sun? LOL...

I've done what I had to do killin wise. Nuff said.

I do know, tho, from personal and unpleasant experience, that underpowered handguns are just about worthless in an up close and personal 'encounter'. I'd prefer to arm myself with something that has "1 round" knockdown power, such as the .45 or some such.

Interesting that you are one of the few Marines I've heard with something good to say about the AR-15/M-16. I assume you never had an issue with stoppages or jams in the 'bush'? I'm just curious, since I've heard so much about that particular issue.

BTW, I have zero 'trigger' time in the USMC. All mine comes from Law Enforcement.

directed at me probably

I know nothing about killing :-)

[Sgt Leprechaun]

So noted FIST, thanks! Walking point with a LAAW.....too funny!

I'll take my .45 over the Glock I used to carry, believe me. Although it was a reliable and easy to shoot piece, they give you 17 rounds for a reason LOL...

Cop training teaches to aim 'center mass' most of the time, but I read some interesting studies about 15 years ago that suggested to change our points of aim to the hips; the theory being with 9mm, two or three 'double tap' hip shots would send the bad guy dropping on his face, no matter how many drugs or chemicals were in his system, since if the hip socket/rotator goes bye bye, bad guy goes down. The idea never caught on, partly due to the fact that it's not "PC" to aim for the adversaries crotch...lol....but I try to alternate, when I go to the range, between hip shots and head shots.

Still, it's much easier to shoot at a paper man than it is a real one. Paper men just stand there, and when you hit em, they don't scream, keep shooting, bleed, fall over, or anything else. I shoot 'master' on the range, but that don't mean squat in the real world.


SuN....be glad for that. And hope you never have to....but that if you do, you do what ya gotta, when ya gotta.

[SkilletsUSMC]

So noted FIST, thanks! Walking point with a LAAW.....too funny!

I'll take my .45 over the Glock I used to carry, believe me. Although it was a reliable and easy to shoot piece, they give you 17 rounds for a reason LOL...

Cop training teaches to aim 'center mass' most of the time, but I read some interesting studies about 15 years ago that suggested to change our points of aim to the hips; the theory being with 9mm, two or three 'double tap' hip shots would send the bad guy dropping on his face, no matter how many drugs or chemicals were in his system, since if the hip socket/rotator goes bye bye, bad guy goes down. The idea never caught on, partly due to the fact that it's not "PC" to aim for the adversaries crotch...lol....but I try to alternate, when I go to the range, between hip shots and head shots.

Still, it's much easier to shoot at a paper man than it is a real one. Paper men just stand there, and when you hit em, they don't scream, keep shooting, bleed, fall over, or anything else. I shoot 'master' on the range, but that don't mean squat in the real world.


SuN....be glad for that. And hope you never have to....but that if you do, you do what ya gotta, when ya gotta.

Our Snipers claim they shot the head clean off an insurgent who was high on Coke and Adrenaline. they say he took off running 6-7 paces before dropping. I didnt see it myself so its not really that trustworthy. But it is true that when all jacked up the body can take a pretty hard licking and keep on ticking.

[SkilletsUSMC]

SuN....be glad for that. And hope you never have to....but that if you do, you do what ya gotta, when ya gotta.

I imagine having to shoot someone as a cop would be so much harder than shooting insurgents.

[FistFu68]

WE HAD AN INCIDENT,AT QUANTICO;A MARINE WAS GOING BERZERK.HE WAS ARMED WITH A SAWED OFF 12GAUGE! AS WE APPROACHED THE MAN,HE WAS TOLD TO DROP THE WEAPON, THE CPL. WITH ME ASKED WHAT SHOULD I DO;I TOLD HIM TOO SHOOT HIS AZZ! HE SHOT HIM IN THE HAND,WITH HIS DUTY .45~NO EXCESSIVE FORCE(LOL) BLEW MOST OF HIS HAND CLEAN OFF!LATER WHEN WE WERE DEBRIEFED,WE FOUND OUT HE WAS ON ANGEL DUST!!!OH, HE WAS ALSO SHOOT IN THE KNEE'S;WITH MY DUTY 12 GAUGE. NO.4 SHOT,NEVER REALLY WANTED TOO KILL A FELLOW MARINE!!!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Depends on the situation, truth be told. With the amount of public scrutiny these days, it's not fun by any means. But, when it's down and dirty, you tend not to think about that.

I don't have trouble sleeping, cause I know I was righteous doing what I've done.

And, really, what are criminals but insurgents using a different name, anyway? Some of the urban areas in this country today are no different than Al Anbar province, and probably have a higher body count per annum than some of the other Iraqi provinces. Heck, would you want to walk through SouthEast DC at 0100 in the AM? How about Cabrini Green? Watts?

I did it for five years in Prince Georges County, 5 miles from the SE DC line At least the tour in Fallujah is "only" six months LOL

It's all in the perception, though.

BTW, the body deal wouldn't surprise me; the human body is remarkably resiliant..sometimes so much so it scares me.

[10thzodiac]

WE HAD AN INCIDENT,AT QUANTICO;A MARINE WAS GOING BERZERK.HE WAS ARMED WITH A SAWED OFF 12GAUGE! AS WE APPROACHED THE MAN,HE WAS TOLD TO DROP THE WEAPON, THE CPL. WITH ME ASKED WHAT SHOULD I DO;I TOLD HIM TOO SHOOT HIS AZZ! HE SHOT HIM IN THE HAND,WITH HIS DUTY .45~NO EXCESSIVE FORCE(LOL) BLEW MOST OF HIS HAND CLEAN OFF!LATER WHEN WE WERE DEBRIEFED,WE FOUND OUT HE WAS ON ANGEL DUST!!!OH, HE WAS ALSO SHOOT IN THE KNEE'S;WITH MY DUTY 12 GAUGE. NO.4 SHOT,NEVER REALLY WANTED TOO KILL A FELLOW MARINE!!!

Back in the '60s, I worked with a former sailor that during WWII while he was on Shore Patrol, a sailor that they were attempting to apprehend, wrested his .45 away and shot him in the middle finger (gone) and he said it knocked him down like a truck hit him.

I pulled Battalion MP duty a couple of times when deployed in Japan, but 12th Marine Regimental CP duty was the roughest for me. We were stationed on a Army Base 'Camp Zukeran' (now Foster) and we had to get our Marines before the army MP paratroopers did.

On CP duty one night in Zukeran, I got kicked in the face when I was laying down a supposedly passed out drunken Marine in the back of our jeep, we found in the middle of the road by our EM Club. After he smashed me in the face with the bottom of his foot he ran like a jack rabbit through our SNCO area. I yelled twice for him to halt before I hit him once with my billy club from behind on the knee that slowed him down, he still kept running, limping; I think I busted his knee the second time with my billy club. Usually we bring them back to their outfit, but to cover my ass, I took him to the Regimental O.D. where he said his knee was fine, I don't think so, but he was due to go home and when you are due to go home, you'll say anything even if your knee is busted. Crazy !

[FistFu68]

#10~WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN THE 3RD.HERD~173RD.AIRBORNE, BY ANY CHANCE? S/F MARINE!!!

[10thzodiac]

#10~WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN THE 3RD.HERD~173RD.AIRBORNE, BY ANY CHANCE? S/F MARINE!!!

Yep ! Some of those boys were pretty big too. Loved to watch them hanging off the roof next door down the side of their barracks playing war.

They definitely appeared to have their sh*t together, compared to us arty poges !

Glad they were on our side.

When their/our houseboy came over to our NCO quarters he'd bring the paratrooper boots to shine with him. Our acting battalion comm chief, a corporal that had a jump badge found a pair that fit him. I didn't like it, but what could you do ? The Green Wall !

SF
10thz

[FistFu68]

BEING AN ARMY BRAT~HAD IT'S REWARD'S AT TIME'S!SOME OF THE BEST FIST~FIGHT'S,I EVER SAW AS A KID;WERE BETWEEN MARINE'S & AIRBORNE TROOPER'S!WHEN IT WAS ONE ON ONE, IT WAS QUITE ENTERTAINING;I MUST SAY!(LOL) HAVE A SAFE NEW YEAR~MARINE

[10thzodiac]

BEING AN ARMY BRAT~HAD IT'S REWARD'S AT TIME'S!SOME OF THE BEST FIST~FIGHT'S,I EVER SAW AS A KID;WERE BETWEEN MARINE'S & AIRBORNE TROOPER'S!WHEN IT WAS ONE ON ONE, IT WAS QUITE ENTERTAINING;I MUST SAY!(LOL) HAVE A SAFE NEW YEAR~MARINE

One on one, Lol.

Paratroopers vs Cannon Cockers (Camp Zukeran)

Have a safe New Year too Marine !

SF
10thz

[10thzodiac]

Our Snipers claim they shot the head clean off an insurgent who was high on Coke and Adrenaline. they say he took off running 6-7 paces before dropping. I didnt see it myself so its not really that trustworthy. But it is true that when all jacked up the body can take a pretty hard licking and keep on ticking.

Have you ever seen what a chicken does after its head is cut off on the chopping block