Heard any "Baby Killer" comments lately?

[horselady]

My husband, a USMC Vietnam Vet was attacked with the moniker,
"Baby Killer" and worse, many times when he was in uniform back
then.

What I want to know is, has this despicable name come back
in fashion among liberals and other anti-military types during
this less-than-popular war. I ask because a liberal I know
swears that this name is never used against our men and
women in the military. As I have no first hand knowledge, and
am relying only on rumors I've heard that it is being used,
I thought I'd ask the people who might know whether this is
the case or not?

Hope you can help (one way or the other).

[Hobson]

Fresh out of boot I was approached in my Charlies and I was spit on by an anti-war person. I had a friend with me, the end result was not good. So yes it still happens.

Semper Fi,

[jinelson]

Friday, July 9, 2004

Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge

By ROBERT L. JAMIESON Jr.
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST

Think about the Seattle area -- Bainbridge Island to be exact -- and you think scenic views and liberal-minded tolerance.


FOLLOW-UP
Read the latest update: An apology and -- it is hoped -- healing on Bainbridge.

At least the killer views are still there.

The bucolic island's deep reputation for civility got a gut check this week during the annual Grand Old Fourth of July celebration.

That's when Jason Gilson, a 23-year-old military veteran who served in Iraq, marched in the local event. He wore his medals with pride and carried a sign that said "Veterans for Bush."

Walking the parade route with his mom, younger siblings and politically conservative friends, Jason heard words from the crowd that felt like a thousand daggers to the heart.

"Baby killer!"

"Murderer!"

"Boooo!"

To understand why the reaction of strangers hurt so much, you must read what the young man had written in a letter from Iraq before he was disabled in an ambush:

"I really miss being in the states. Some of the American public have no idea how much freedom costs and who the people are that pay that awful price. I think sometimes people just see us as nameless and faceless and not really as humans. ... A good portion of us are actually scared that when we come home, for those of us who make it back, that there will be protesters waiting for us and that is scary."

On the Fourth, Jason faced his worst fear.

It was such a public humiliation -- home front insult after battlefield injury.

It really shouldn't have happened for two principal reasons.

Reason No. 1? History.

The past informs us that the men and women who fight our wars are not just following orders.

They are risking life and limb.

When they return from the battlefield they should be embraced regardless of the public popularity about the conflict, regardless of the politics.

Have we so quickly forgotten the painful lessons of Vietnam?

Frederick Scheffler, whose daughter and son-in-law marched with Jason on Sunday, hasn't.

Scheffler -- an Army veteran of two tours in Southeast Asia -- was shot in the leg during that long-ago conflict.

He came home with a cane, only to discover the American public was either indifferent to his sacrifice or downright hostile.

"I didn't think in this day and age combat veterans would be treated in this manner," Scheffler, 60, tells me, reflecting on Jason. "I saw it happen to veterans in Vietnam. I'm not going to let it happen today, not to these kids."

Reason No. 2? The rules.

The Bainbridge Island Chamber of Commerce, which put on the community celebration, permits freedom of expression at the event but asks that parade announcers not act in a manner that is partisan or prejudicial.

Jason's mother, Tamar, says a female parade announcer locked eyes on her son who was walking behind a pro-Republican group called Women in Red, White and Blue. The group supports President Bush and the troops in the fight against terrorism.

According to Tamar, the female announcer sarcastically asked Jason: "And what exactly are you a veteran of?"

The perceived mocking, the mother adds, set off some people in the crowd, loosing a flood of negative comments, "like a wave... a mob-style degrading."

Kevin Dwyer, executive director of the Chamber of Commerce, spoke with the announcer after the allegations reached him this week.

He says the woman denies using sarcasm; she just wanted to know which war Jason was a veteran of so that she could "honor him" in public.

"It wasn't her intention to incite anything -- that's what she told me," Dwyer said. "But if she acted out of school, that's not what we're about."

Dwyer added: "I believe (Jason's) mom when she said her son was called 'a murderer.' But I'm sure it wasn't so much directed at the kid as it was the president. A soldier with a sign represents that."

The female announcer told Dwyer that some in the Bush-Cheney contingent in the parade seemed "militant."

And so, battle lines are drawn.

From the outside looking in, the fuel for this conflict seems obvious.

The left-leaning island hosted a group of people who support Bush's controversial war. (On the same parade route, people bearing pro-Kerry signs were cheered and applauded for, among other things, tooling around in an environmentally responsible car.)

Against such a roiling backdrop, an unfortunate tone of voice or the wording on a sign can spark, well, something -- something unconscionable it appears.

But less obvious factors are undoubtedly at work here, too.

The female announcer at the parade had a father who fought for America in a previous U.S. conflict. He never made it back home.

Jason's mother -- unbeknownst to many observers along the parade route -- is a tireless activist behind the pro-troops movement in the Puget Sound region.

Such a combo on a day of red, white and blue can only lead to fireworks -- snap, crackle and popping off during what locals call the "best small-town parade in America."

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yes, it still happens, despite the fact that the MSM won't report on it. Compare and contrast this with what happens when ANY Marine goes off and does something stupid, or even defends him/her self against one of these idiots..."MARINE ASSAULTS ANTI-WAR MOM AT RALLY" "IRAQ VET, FORMER MARINE, SLAYS 9 IN WAR RELATED SHOOTOUT".

It's only when you get to paragraph 7 in the back pages do you see that the Marine 'assaulted' the 'anti-war' 'mom' by pushing her out of his face as she screamed 'babykiller' or some such nonsense, and the 'mom' is really a leftover hippie whose own kids left home long ago...and the "Iraqwar Marine" was booted from the Corps with a Dishonorable Discharge for various reasons....but neither of those things sell papers.

As a cop, I'm used to be called all sorts of wonderful things from time to time....but truth be told, if someone were to spit on me, in uniform, I doubt seriously I'd be able to contain myself, and probably injure the little scumbag.

Of course, that's what they want....but it would be damn satisfying!

[horselady]

Thanks guys. I was afraid this was the case but I was
hoping I was wrong. I plan to post these comments for the
liberals who said I was crazy to think that such comments
were being made to the troops once again.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Ma'am, the libs ALWAYS say that sorta thing...just the way they are. You might also want to find a copy of Bob Greene's book, "Homecoming", where he directly relates stories of Vietnam Vets being spit on by the "peace and love" crowd back then.

BTW, when I was a young pup, back in '83, I had a bead wearin long hair call me a 'babykiller' at an anti-nuke protest held at Marine Barracks Annapolis. I looked him dead in the eye and said "It's better'n bein a communist **ggot". He decided discretion was the better part of valor, I suppose, and left post haste LOL.

[booksbenji]

despairings words spoke of our Veterans (Past or Present), I was pasting thru Love Field (Dallas before DFW) in '72 and was on a escort mission for a Fallen Marine. I was walking to the next gate to get to South Texas and had SW air escort, 'bout 4 steps in front was a hulk of spit (mind U I had Dress Blue "C" on), did a rite turn to a small crowd of waiting people who waiting to be board and I found the SOB that was spitting. He was not standing anymore. Dallas police p/u his butt up and cuff him foot and hand. I recived in the mail when I returned to MCBCAMLEJ a free flt from SW Air and a ltr from Herb Keller, Pres and CEO then. He thanked for my service to the Corps, to the Fallen and to America. Mother had it framed and stills hangs at my sister house to this today. I still fly SWA and most of the pilots know me and free beir (Heiny, of course).

[krc0604]

Yes it does happen. I have Marine Corps license plates on my cars, and have been called that several times, one time with her two kids in the minivan. But on the other hand, I have had some great responses from some people.

[toomuchmoto]

It still happens, just a few months ago i was in Palm Springs in my chucks, and some guy spit on my shoes, and called me all sorts of things, to include "baby killer". If my cpl hadn't put me in a head lock, i'm pretty sure that i would have had some trouble getting blood out of my uniform.

[SgtHMH]

Well I'm a Marine and a Cop and one day coming home from work, when I was still on active Officer. I was wearing my State Police Uniform with a plan old coat over it. I was in the active Marine reserves at the time and as all Marines, the round Marine Corps bumper sticker. I stopped to get gas, and had this long haired pun start telling me off. I had a military hair cut, green trousers and a tan military type shirt on under my coat that he could see. He could not see my State Police patches or my shoulder holster with my mags and cuffs, and double action 9mm, or my State Police Badge. He started telling me off about how he did not like Marines and the military, and that I was a baby killer. If he had a gun he would shoot me him self. Well guess what that is a crime, I took my jacket off and said you are under arrest for making death threats to me. He turn white as a sheet when he saw my State Police Uniform, I also said I am a Marine all the time too. I put cuffs on him and just waited for the local police to show up. The Officer showed up and he the Officer was a fellow Marine too. This guy the threatend me was in a world of Marines and Police and it back fired on him, that he will never will forget.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

[10thzodiac]

It's bad enough when you got the guy's at the top, Johnson-Bush more worried about their legacy than the troops, their wars gone wrong; then insult to injury the civilians take a hard sh*t on you and call you a baby killer.

I blame our brain-fart leaders as the root cause of the baby killer name calling, not the name callers.

No, the North Vietnamese never invaded the west coast and Usama is not going to make our women wear burqa's.

What is happening, allot of Americans and Arabs are dying because of our ill advised misadventures into countries.

As long as we let our elected officials who have incidentally avoided military service one way or another start these un-necessary wars, we can expect to be called names in default because we represent our failed fart-brain leaders policy's.

I personally never had the experience of being called a baby killer, but again, I hardly ever needed to wear my uniform off base.

Right after 9/11 I did have a gentleman in a mall, in a well to do Chicago suburb, Oakbrook, ask me if I was in the military after he noticed my license plates. I said, a long time ago. He shook my hand and thanked me and then drove off in his Mercedes. I doubt if he could tell a soldier from a Marine, or even knew what the Globe and Anchor was.

Horselady, if subtle manipulation is your aim, you haven't done badly judging by your response, excepting me of course, good for you

SF
10th

[horselady]

Well I'm a Marine and a Cop and one day coming home from work, when I was still on active Officer. I was wearing my State Police Uniform with a plan old coat over it. I was in the active Marine reserves at the time and as all Marines, the round Marine Corps bumper sticker. I stopped to get gas, and had this long haired pun start telling me off. I had a military hair cut, green trousers and a tan military type shirt on under my coat that he could see. He could not see my State Police patches or my shoulder holster with my mags and cuffs, and double action 9mm, or my State Police Badge. He started telling me off about how he did not like Marines and the military, and that I was a baby killer. If he had a gun he would shoot me him self. Well guess what that is a crime, I took my jacket off and said you are under arrest for making death threats to me. He turn white as a sheet when he saw my State Police Uniform, I also said I am a Marine all the time too. I put cuffs on him and just waited for the local police to show up. The Officer showed up and he the Officer was a fellow Marine too. This guy the threatend me was in a world of Marines and Police and it back fired on him, that he will never will forget.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

That must have made
your day! Good for you. I hope they threw the book at him.

[SuNmAN]

Well I'm a Marine and a Cop and one day coming home from work, when I was still on active Officer. I was wearing my State Police Uniform with a plan old coat over it. I was in the active Marine reserves at the time and as all Marines, the round Marine Corps bumper sticker. I stopped to get gas, and had this long haired pun start telling me off. I had a military hair cut, green trousers and a tan military type shirt on under my coat that he could see. He could not see my State Police patches or my shoulder holster with my mags and cuffs, and double action 9mm, or my State Police Badge. He started telling me off about how he did not like Marines and the military, and that I was a baby killer. If he had a gun he would shoot me him self. Well guess what that is a crime, I took my jacket off and said you are under arrest for making death threats to me. He turn white as a sheet when he saw my State Police Uniform, I also said I am a Marine all the time too. I put cuffs on him and just waited for the local police to show up. The Officer showed up and he the Officer was a fellow Marine too. This guy the threatend me was in a world of Marines and Police and it back fired on him, that he will never will forget.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

hope you threw his ass in jail

[SgtHMH]

When you say things about the Military and threaten people it does hit you in the back side. There are more Veterans than most people think out there in the world and the Judge was a Veteran him self of Nam. The Judge of the county court had a few words of him self for this person. He said he wish there was a War Like Nam going on, because back then they put people in the military or jail. This guy would have been in the military if a war was going on and a draft occuring.

Semper Fi

Sgt. Hoss

[SuNmAN]

I would punch someone in the throat if he ever said something of the sort to me.