PLC/92-Day Reserve Rundown - Page 4
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  1. #46
    MAYSOON:

    with all due respect, **** that ****, I AM CANADIAN...not BRIT LIGHT.

    i wear a CANADIAN flag on my left shoulder...not a UNION JACK.

    and nothing against the brits or the yanks, or anyone else...

    but I would NOT be flattered by having a Brit commanding my platoon, i would be insulted actually, just as much as if a French, Dutch, American were commanding.

    Its not to say that men/women from those countries dont know how to do the job...it would just feel weird/wrong.

    UNLESS they joined the Canadian Forces.

    NOTE: any country part of the common wealth may join another common wealth country's military.


  2. #47
    Marine Free Member gwladgarwr's Avatar
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    Post At Whose Service?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSoldier
    MAYSOON:

    with all due respect, **** that ****, I AM CANADIAN...not BRIT LIGHT.

    i wear a CANADIAN flag on my left shoulder...not a UNION JACK.

    and nothing against the brits or the yanks, or anyone else...

    but I would NOT be flattered by having a Brit commanding my platoon, i would be insulted actually, just as much as if a French, Dutch, American were commanding.

    Its not to say that men/women from those countries dont know how to do the job...it would just feel weird/wrong.

    UNLESS they joined the Canadian Forces.

    NOTE: any country part of the common wealth may join another common wealth country's military.
    Just to let you know, entire divisions (in the past and currently under NATO agreements) can be commanded by foreign officers - whether Commonwealth or not - though this is an option and not commonplace.) I don't like the idea of being under a foreign command - allied or otherwise, but being subject to such a command does NOT make you any less a Canadian nor does it imply any sort of subjugation of your country's sovereignty.

    On a side note, "Commonwealth" is one word, and it's capitalized (if you're referring to the British Commonwealth.)

    I'd be more concerned about Canada's insistence on preserving the office of the Governor-General (as H.M.'s official representative in Canada) than about serving under a command led by a foreign officer. If a country accepts as its Head of State a foreign monarch, that country has already abrogated part of its own sovereignty and self-determination. Repatriation in 1982 was part of the story - the Constitution Act 1867-1982 enshrines what you are talking about in your post, but on a political level. Take a look at that and think about it.

    Sgt gw


  3. #48
    Apparently, LivinSoFree never became an Officer. I looked him up on MOL and he's still with the same unit and still holds the same rank, LCPL, that he did 2 years ago. It would be interesting to hear what happened.


  4. #49

    Gi Bill Kicker Question

    I NEED to know if a 92 day option reservist can be eligible for the GI Bill Kicker...


  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LivinSoFree
    For those of you interested in PLC, officer programs, and those who are weighing their options between the enlisted and officer side, here are a few items that should help you figure things out. When I first enlisted, all I had was hearsay and some moto videos to work off of- here's some down and dirty about the PLC program, OCS, and the differences between OCS and recruit training.

    OK, starting point: http://www.marineofficer.com

    Google searches for "Marine OCS" "Officer Candidate School" and "PLC" may also yield good results. Also Google "USMC Candidate Regulations" and get a copy of the Candidate Regs, that'll give you a pretty good look at what's going on.

    Getting Selected for PLC/Marine Officer Programs

    Getting selected is always a nebulous proposition. PLC is the "stopgap valve" whereby the Corps can ratchet up or down it's number of officer accessions. What this means is this: The Corps is going to get a fixed number of new officers from ROTC programs and USNA every year. Those numbers stay more or less the same due to the necessity of keeping those programs active with a certain number of candidates/midshipmen. PLC/OCC/MECEP etc. suffers from no such limitation. As such, they can increase or decrease the number of selections however best fits the needs of the Corps.

    That said, I'd also add the following. My OSO has a 100 percent selection rate for the packages that make it to the selection board. This is a direct result of an excellent prescreening process. If you have a good OSO, he'll take a good look at what you're submitting and work with you to get it as competitive as possible- it's in their best interest to hit their quotas with good, strong candidates.

    Physically, the minimum PFT to even go to OCS is a 225, with a minimum of 8 pullups, and a 24:00min 3-mile run time. DO NOT take this as the standard to reach. Competitive PFT score for PLC is about a 245 at minimum, and 255 for OCC (for those already possessing a 4-year degree). Again, don't just depend on the minimum. It's in your best interest to be as strong as possible before you go to OCS, both in power and endurance (though I'd recommend the latter as somewhat more important- OCS is like a marathon run at a sprint pace).

    Academically, you need a 2.0 GPA minimum to get selected. Surprisingly, this is really not a big deal as far as exceeding the minimum- they're just looking for decent academic progress- they don't expect a bunch of potential Jarheads to be super overachievers in civilian colleges. Though I'd recommend having a good reading habit established, as well as a well-developed ability to write clearly and concisely, using proper spelling and grammar. You also need to hit a certain AFQT score on the ASVAB, I believe it's currently 73, but that may have changed.

    Other than that, there's the Moral/Security Clearance type qualifications. No DUIs, no major police involvement, no outstanding traffic tickets, etc. Goes without saying, but don't be openly homosexual, per the homosexual conduct policy. Also in the medical department- if you have any old surgeries/nagging injuries/conditions that require or required in the past a doctor's care/regular medication, make sure they're thoroughly documented, and that you have evaluations from specialists stating that they're NOT any sort of impediment to you being able to perform your duties. If you have any old injuries that are still nagging problems, GET THEM DEALT WITH before you go to OCS. If you have something that's just a nagging problem under regular circumstances, it WILL get aggravated at OCS, and that can lead to your disenrollment for medical reasons, no matter how good of a candidate you are. Keep in mind that after you get commissioned, your first 6 months is going to be spent at The Basic School, which is definitely physically demanding. So even if you squeak by at OCS, you'll feel the pain at TBS, which risks you getting dropped back to Mike Company (the PCP/MRP of TBS).

    When you walk in with your rough application, have everything put together and checked over twice, organized and presentable. Attention to detail, initiative counts, and it will be noted by those evaluating you, even at the OSO level. If they ask for 4 character references, get 6. Try to get a good spread, that includes retired military if possible. Get evals from people who have seen you in a leadership role. They're looking for people who have the potential to lead Marines in a high stress environment.

    Above all, be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that this is what you want. Go up there dedicated and determined to finish.

    Now, all of this is a little flexible. When I applied, I had a substandard PFT (236 on the initial run at OCS). But the rest of my package shined, and that offset it. When I got to OCS, despite my bad initial PFT, the rest of my scores were high, and that kept me in the game long enough to get my PFT up. By the end of the 10 weeks, I had dropped 2:18 off my run time, and picked up 4 pullups.

    Initial PFT at OCS: 236
    Pullups: 12
    Crunches: 100
    3 Mile Run: 21:22

    Final PFT at OCS: 273
    Pullups: 16
    Crunches: 100
    3 Mile Run: 19:04

    If they see you putting out, and I mean with every ounce of effort you've got, making yourself drop from exhaustion instead of quitting, working out on your downtime, and going the extra mile, they'll keep you, even if you're hurting on your physical scores. Your platoon staff has a LOT of pull in determining whether or not to keep or drop a candidate who's on the fence. Convince them that you're worth keeping, and you'll stay. Give them the impression that you're a sh*tbird, and you'll be on a plane before you even knew what hit you.


    OCS compared to Recruit Training:

    Briefly, here's the difference. Boot Camp is meant to put each recruit into a "Basic Marine" mold. It teaches discipline (defined as "Instant, willing obedience to orders, self-reliance, and teamwork.") It "checks the box" on all the basic skills and qualifications that every Marine must have (rifle qual, PFT, swim qual, gas chamber/NBC quals, MCMAP Tan Belt qual, basic field firing techniques, basic patrolling tactics, drill and ceremonies, uniform wear, history, customs/courtesies, first aid, etc.) and graduates Marines into the fleet or the reserves. It's all about getting hundreds of recruits per company, from just as many different backgrounds, to function as a team and as a Marine in the operating forces. When you graduate recruit training, you will be a Marine, period.

    OCS is different. The mission at OCS is to "Train, Screen, and Evaluate candidates to determine whether they possess the physical, intellectual, and moral qualities necessary to serve effectively as company grade officers in the Operating Forces." It's like one big job interview. When you graduate OCS as a PLC candidate, you technically don't even rate the title "Marine" yet, until you accept your commission as a 2nd Lieutenant. You'll go back to college and be expected to maintain your fitness for commissioning with little or no oversight. You are correct that you can decline to accept your commission if you so choose, however, if you took any financial aid, you'll have to either pay it back monetarily or through an enlistment in the Marine Corps.

    Boot camp is a 13-week straight shot. OCS as a PLC candidate has 2 different options. If you contract/get selected before the end of your sophomore year, you'll do 2 6-week courses (Juniors/Seniors). One the summer after you get selected, and one the summer after your junior year. If you contract after your sophomore year (as I did), you'll do one 10-week straight shot (Combined). Personally, I'd recommend the 10-week course if you can work it that way. More recovery time (though still not much), and generally a better learning curve.

    Differences? OCS is far more about individual effort. Physically speaking, the PT is light-years away harder than at recruit training. You've gotta have a 225 PFT MINIMUM even to qualify for OCS, a 245 is recommended as a minimum competitive score for PLC applicants. You'll PT probably somewhere between 4 and 6 mornings a week, and the only time you'll run on pavement is for your PFTs. You'll run, A LOT, uphill, downhill, sideways, on dirt, through mud, in PT gear, boots 'n utes, with wargear and weapon, and then you'll run some more. Lots of time on the O-Course, endurance course, and the CRT (Combat Readiness Test). Academically, it's a little more challenging than boot camp, but still mostly at a 10th grade level. You'll spend a fair bit of time in classes, covering Marine Corps History, customs/courtesies, uniforms, basic tactics, operations orders and all the misc. subjects that you've gotta cover, like fraternization, sexual harassment, etc.

    Another big difference is the mindset. Boot Camp is a "succeed or die trying" kind of place. It's VERY hard, if not damn near impossible to "quit" boot camp. Once you're there, you signed the contract and you're in it for the haul. OCS, on the other hand, you've gotta WANT it, and I mean with every bone in your body, 'cause starting at week 4 for the 10 weekers, and I imagine after week 3 for the 2x6 weekers, you can quit. I mean you can knock on the duty hut hatch, say "DOR" and be on a plane home in less than 48 hours, never to get another chance to return and with a piece of your honor left on Brown Field. It's that easy. OCS is designed to weed out the ones that can't hack it. It's a numbers game too. Everything is evaluated. 25% of your score is academics, 25% physical events, and 50% leadership. Your leadership score is based on evaluations from your "billets," whereby you're placed in a leadership role, from squad leader all the way up to Candidate Company Commander, and evaluated by your staff counterparts (and they are merciless- good luck when you end up as candidate platoon sergeant or candidate company gunnery sergeant). Also, you are evaluated for leadership during SULE I and SULE II (Small Unit Leadership Exercise) which are fireteam and squad sized tactical reaction courses, where you basically end up running through the woods and around Brown Field with your team solving reaction course style and tactical problems rotating through the team leader/squad leader positions, as well as the Leadership Reaction Course (I and II), and Fireteam/Squad in the offense scenarios. Written tests are generally multiple choice, but also include 2 essay style exams for History II and Leadership II. Graded physical events include PFTs, CRT, Endurance Course, and O-Course. All of these evaluations are graded. Anything 83% or below is considered "Marginal" performance and result in a notation in your eval file, and anything below 80% is considered failing, also resulting in a notation in your file. Get more than one of those, and you're in danger of probation and/or disenrollment from the course (ie- you can't hack it, thanks for trying, go home, don't come back). Also, missing too many training days due to light duty/bed rest can result in disenrollment for "Failure to Evaluate," which can send you home, though you may get a second chance the next year at the discretion of the Battallion CO.

    Other differences- Boot camp is totally self-contained. At OCS you'll get off on the weekends starting at the end of the 3rd week. You can go to DC, Stafford/Woodbridge (the towns closest to Quantico), and get some time off. It's considered training though- they give you enough leeway to see if you screw up. Integrity is also a BIG thing. I saw candidates disenrolled for unintentionally misreporting their crunch count on their PFT- by 2 reps. DO NOT BE AN INTEGRITY VIOLATOR. It'll get you thrashed in boot camp, but it'll get you thrown out at OCS. IT- At boot camp, if you screw up, expect to pay in sweat. At OCS, expect to pay in sleep- there's no quarterdeck or pit, just 300 word essays. At boot camp you get 8 hours a night and are forced to sleep. At OCS, your 8 hours a night is time to sleep, yes, but also to do EVERYTHING ELSE you need to do for the next day, including prepping/remarking gear, turning over billets, writing assigned essays (300 words, only words with 4 letters or more count, EXACTLY 300 words, on the assigned topic, properly formatted, spelling and grammar counts, each word that counts underlined, numbered, with the number circled. Screw it up, prepare to do it again, along with another essay on "The Importance of Attention to Detail." But at OCS, we as a platoon definitely were a lot tighter than boot camp.

    Bottom line, the Corps does NOT want officers who don't want to be there, or who can't perform- we can't afford it when you're putting Marines' lives on the line.

    Prior service experience is a major advantage- it'll help you through the course, 'cause you'll already have a handle on the basic subjects taught, as well as the "Marine Mindset," though in later parts of the course, non-prior candidates tend to catch up pretty quick and at times surpass the priors. Prior service also carries the risk of making you overconfident or even arrogant. Don't fall into this trap. I would recommend being a 92-day reservist before going to OCS. Some Marines like to badmouth the 92-day program, but it's a GREAT way to get enlisted experience before you get commissioned, which is invaluable both at OCS and throughout your career as a Marine Officer. Just because you don't go to MOS school right away doesn't mean you can't learn on the fly once you get to your unit. I've been a Comm unit for over 2 years now, never been to MOS school- yet the Marines there have taught me enough to fill multiple books (and it HAS). Take advantage of all the opportunities you can to get where you want to go- if someone tells you no the first time, improvise, adapt, and overcome. It took 3.5 years, 7 medboards, 4 waivers, and 5 denials to get to OCS for me- what do you think that means?

    Everyone wants to know about the money, so here goes: Pay at OCS is at the E-5 (Sergeant) level, for all candidates (unless they are E-6 or above due to prior service), with credit for time in service. Good money. This is, of course, taxed, and you WILL spend a substantial amount of it up there at the courses, for gear you need, on your weekends, etc. PLC provides two forms of financial assistance in addition to the pay at OCS, that are available during the school year, contingent upon successfuly maintaining academic and disciplinary standings within the program. The FAP (Financial Assistance Program) program is a stipend- currently available on a competitive basis (but most candidates that want it can get it), in 2 payments of $1575.00 a year, once in the fall, once in the spring. This is a non-taxable, subsistence stipend. Additionally, MCTAP (Marine Corps Tuition Assistance Program) will reimburse you for up to $5600.00 of tuition, books, lab fees, etc. Not housing, so far as I know. IF YOU TAKE THE MONEY- you are obligated, should you disenroll from the program, voluntarily or involuntarily for unfavorable reasons, to reimburse the US Government for the money you took, either through a 2-year enlistment in the Marine Corps, or by direct reimbursement. Also, the FAP stipend adds an additional 6 months to your initial active duty obligation.

    What happens after you graduate and get commissioned? For PLC candidates, you will get commissioned at a place and time of your choosing, around the time you recieve your degree (having already completed OCS). This will be coordinated through your OSO. Following that, you will recieve orders to The Basic School for 6 months of training in tactics, weapons systems, administrative and legal topics, history, leadership, etc. Basically everything you need to be a functioning basic 2nd Lieutenant at the Company Level. Based on your performance there, you will be broken down in to 3 groups (top, middle, and bottom 3rd of the class, performance wise), and then ranked within those groups. Then, for MOS assignment, to ensure a quality spread, the top guy from the top group gets first choice, then the top guy from the middle group, then the top guy from the bottom group, then the number 2 guy from the top group, etc. so on, so forth. Now, this isn't completely blind, your instructors at TBS will try to guide you towards MOSes you may be best suited for, and may make adjustments based on any number of factors, but that's generally how it works. Don't intentionally bomb a test to get dropped to the next group, 'cause I guarantee, about 10 other Lieutenants have the same idea. Just do your best. Once MOS assignments are made, you'll go out to your respective MOS schools, then be assigned to a unit in the Operating Forces once you've completed your MOS training pipeline, and it's off you go.

    In between OCS and Commisioning, you'll need to maintain academic, physical, legal and moral standards. You'll run a semi-annual PFT, complete a security clearance investigation, file your request for appointment, and request TBS dates. You can be disenrolled for substandard performance or misconduct. Don't let it happen. You also might have a few pool functions, but they're usually pretty fun, and they're not a big committment. Other than that, you have no official committments during the year, unless you are currently a reservist or something of that ilk.

    A Brief Note on Reserve Enlistments

    Reserve Enlistments work 2 different ways for initial accessions (those with no prior service). There's the "92" and "135" programs, those numbers being technically how long the Corps has to get you through Boot Camp once you ship before you're turned back over to Civilian life. 92-dayers are college types- you must be enrolled in a 4-year college before you can enlist on a 92-day slot. This contract splits up your initial training over your summers. Boot Camp the first summer, then MCT and/or MOS school the next, then the last of the three the third summer if you can't fit them both into the 2nd summer. In between, once you graduate boot camp, you drill with your reserve unit like any other reservist. Deployability is very low, as it requires your MOS to get designated as critical for deployment, then you get active duty orders to MOS school/MCT followed by a deployment. I've never seen it happen. The 135-day option is also known as the Regular Reserve program. This is a straight-through program, the one most commonly taken by those joining straight to the reserve side. Regular reservists do the same initial cycle as active duty: boot camp, 10-day leave, MCT, MOS School, then they check into their unit and are released from active duty, and then drill with their unit (one weekend/month and an AT somewhere during the year, generally 2 weeks, but I've seen longer). At this point you're fully deployable. I watched Marines check into my unit and get handed their activation orders the same day. Or you may never get activated. Just depends on your MOS and the needs of the Marine Corps.

    Both programs are eligible for the reserve GI Bill, so long as you do a 6x2 contract (6 years obligated SMCR drilling reserves/2 years Individual Ready Reserve- non-obligated). There is a 4x4 and 2x6 option, but I wouldn't recommend them. Additionally, reservists who are deployed become eligible for REAP, which is a substantial increase in educational benefits. The Reserve GI Bill will increase to approximately 302 dollars a month, 9 months/year, up to 36 months, with an initial 10-year eligibility period. Activation resets the clock on that 10-year period (giving you another 10-year long window to use those benefits). The $302.00 amount is contingent upon you being enrolled full time (12 hours) in an accredited educational institution. For more info on that, google search "Selected Reserve GI Bill."

    There is no requirement/minimum drill time for activation. As I said above, I've seen Marines come straight out of MOS school and get activated at their reserve center. However, you must complete 48 "drills" (2 drills = 1 day) a year, in addition to an AT of a minimum of 2 weeks in order to have a "sat year" (satisfactory year- i.e. you've fulfilled your contract obligation to the Corps for that year, barring activation). There're also options to go active duty for any length of time, just depending again on MOS and needs of the Corps.

    Good luck to all prospective recruits/candidates, and if you have any other questions, feel free to PM me and we'll get in touch.


    Could you please address whether or not the 92 day option reservists are eligible for the GI Bill Kicker?


  6. #51
    I am a 92 day reservist and got the Kicker. So, the answer is yes. Be sure to ask your recruiter. Also, I just graduated from OCS (PLC-C 198, A Co, 5th PLT) August 9th (commission May 09), so if anyone has questions about the reserves/PLC send them my way.

    I also suggest that anyone interested in OCS hop over to http://www.marineocs.com and check out all of the gouge they have over there. Be sure to post a proper intro in the introductions section to avoid the flames.


  7. #52
    josephd
    Guest Free Member
    Quote Originally Posted by grodunt View Post
    I am a 92 day reservist and got the Kicker. So, the answer is yes. Be sure to ask your recruiter. Also, I just graduated from OCS (PLC-C 198, A Co, 5th PLT) August 9th (commission May 09), so if anyone has questions about the reserves/PLC send them my way.

    I also suggest that anyone interested in OCS hop over to http://www.marineocs.com and check out all of the gouge they have over there. Be sure to post a proper intro in the introductions section to avoid the flames.
    Thank you for the OCS forum suggestion!..spent a few hours on there researching and reading up on what I need to to do get myslef in and prepared for PLC, OCS, and TBS


  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Braden View Post
    Apparently, LivinSoFree never became an Officer. I looked him up on MOL and he's still with the same unit and still holds the same rank, LCPL, that he did 2 years ago. It would be interesting to hear what happened.

    His facebook says 2nd Lieutenant and he's got pictures of him in the commissioning ceremony with his Officer Dress Blues...so I don't know.


  9. #54
    If I was to go the 92 day route, what would I be doing for my one weekend a month drill, having not been through MOS training yet?


  10. #55
    ctbylsma you'll do the same thing your unit does. They'll pretty much just teach you what you need to know on the fly.


  11. #56
    What's your MOS by the way?


  12. #57
    I'm listed as an 1833 (Reservist), granted that i qual. CWS-2


  13. #58
    CWS-2 isn't too hard as long as you're a pretty good swimmer. Only the first part of it sucks, which is a 50 meter swim with a flak and kevlar on. The only other part is a buddy drag which is super easy since he'll be holding onto two packs which are flotation devices. All you have to do is pull him like 25 meters


  14. #59
    Ok I enlisted in the split-program and I leave 20081105 for MRCDPI and I am not sure when I talk to the OSO and apply for PLC. Any help with be very appreciated.


  15. #60
    Poolee/DEP Free Member
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    Is it a better option to go for NROTC? And how does that work? I've been out of high school for a little over a year now and I ship out January. Plan to be a Marine Corp Pilot... Can i still do NROTC? Or should I just go with PLC?


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