Murtha Sees New Evidence That War Is Going Badly - Page 4
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  1. #46
    Oorah, Dale


  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by 003XXMarineDAD
    Well for once I agree , you are no foreign affairs expert. I sure want to give the Useless Nations control over what we do in Iraq and else where in the world.
    The famous Useless Nations that had the food for oil program that was such a sound plan.
    The Useless Nations that protected women and young girls in Chad and the sudan from the over sexed Useless Nation troops.
    The Useless Nations that never has a bad word to say about genocide of Jews or Christians but will defend the rights of the sorts of bed fellows like Saddam , Hezbolah, Al Quida, The Taliban.
    THe civil nations like France that has only one direction like the Deafocrats here ... CUT AND RUN.
    The one good thing I do know is as long as there are one's that belive in things like this I will always have a good laugh and a reason to fight to keep the cut and runners from taking control. My bank account is not as big as the chief supplier of MoveOn .org Greoge Sorros but their are more little people like me that will walk and do door to door talks to get the vote out then the elite pravada party.
    Respectfully ladderwell you make me proud to do the walks and door to door because it warms my heart to think how you will look when the plan you think will work will never come to fruition.


    Well, it is easy to understand your position. Someone once said that the United States always does the right thing, after they have done it wrong every other way.

    Some learn the easy way, and some learn the hard way. I don't want to bury any more of my friends and relatives than necessary over the next 300 years than I have to. I weep for the men and women who have been uselessly put through the meat grinder, who are getting put through the meat grinder, and who will be put through the meat grinder.

    I'm sorry that you do not understand, that you do not "get it." Back at PI, we were always made aware of the "2%" who don't get it, and who never will.

    Good luck to you.
    *
    Ladderwell
    SF


  3. #48
    Marine Free Member 10thzodiac's Avatar
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    "Sometimes I wonder whether the country is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it."


  4. #49
    Ladderwell
    I respect your right to your opinion but I was sent this in an email recently and I thought you might enjoy it.
    Here it is enjoy...Very thought provoking.

    DON'T CLOSE THE BLINDS

    The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at
    war...My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and
    I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve
    and defend our Country again today. I knew that my husband would give
    him a good explanation. My husband thought for a few minutes and then
    told my son to go stand in our front living room window.

    He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

    "I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

    "OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United
    States of America and you are President Bush."

    Our son giggled and said "OK."

    "Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house
    and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

    "OK Dad, I'm pretending."

    "Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you
    see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair
    and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the
    face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death.
    Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming
    and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids
    and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son....what do
    you do?"

    "Dad?"

    "What do you do son?"

    "I'd call the police, Dad."

    "OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your
    call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What
    do you do then son?"

    "Dad....... but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to
    whine.


    "They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or
    your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my
    husband says.

    "But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

    "I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want
    you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're
    pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

    "Daddy...he kills them?"

    "Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

    "Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door
    neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

    "Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get
    involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my
    husband says.

    "But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

    "WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

    "OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for
    help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and
    puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

    "What Daddy?"

    "He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her
    door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire
    and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the
    window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

    "Daddy..."

    "WHAT DO YOU DO?" Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers,
    "I'd close the blinds, Daddy."

    My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him. "Why?"

    "Because, Daddy.....the police are supposed to help people who needs
    them...and they won't help.... You always say that neighbors are
    supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help
    me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself Daddy.....I can't
    look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things
    and...and.....do nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds....
    so
    I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is
    not happening."

    I start to cry. My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in
    the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husband's
    questions and he says...

    "Son"

    "Yes, Daddy."

    "Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door... "WHAT
    DO YOU DO?"

    My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up
    his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without
    hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT
    MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT
    HIM!!!!!"

    I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his
    chest and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's
    too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have
    stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady
    across the way. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it
    alone, before its too late." my husband whispers. THAT scenario I just
    gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let
    evil happen son, THAT is the greatest atrocities in the world won't
    affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU
    HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!" BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR
    TROOPS!! SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR
    CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS..."


  5. #50
    This is a little very long, but very informative.

    You have to read the Catalogue of events in this brief piece. Then, ask
    yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring
    our troops home from Iraq, sit back, reset the snooze alarm, go back to
    sleep, and no one will ever bother us again. In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years.

    US Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station,
    Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.

    AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

    That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 19! 79 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

    It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a
    religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 25 years.

    America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

    America's military had been decimated and ! down sized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

    Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

    In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven
    into the US Embassy compound in Beirut When it explodes, it kills 63
    people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

    Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with
    over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.
    !
    Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

    The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the
    gate of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

    Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

    Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

    Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we
    watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

    The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when
    they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1! 986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

    Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying
    to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

    The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder.

    The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two
    CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

    The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested
    after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground
    parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of
    war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

    Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

    A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

    They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision.They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

    The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

    And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Amer! icans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

    In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high
    officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

    The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 25 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life contin! ues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

    After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "... it seems all
    we have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible
    resolve."

    This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

    Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage,
    political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't
    have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a
    political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN
    thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to
    come.

    If you believe in this please forward it to as many people as you can
    especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class
    and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action.

    ! If you don't believe it, just delete it and go back to sleep.


  6. #51
    This is sooo sooo good! And a big encouragement to hear!

    This is from one who is packing to go back to Iraq from
    a two week leave. It's amazing the differences he reports than the media.

    As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing)

    -Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.

    -Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations.

    -Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that were stored there so education can occur.

    -The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off loaded from ships faster.

    -School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.

    -The country had it's firs! t 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.

    -The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.

    -100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35% before the war.

    -Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are in place.

    -Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.

    -Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.

    -Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.

    -Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.

    -Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.

    -Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.

    -An interim constitution has been signed.

    &nb! sp;-Girls are allowed to attend school for the first time ever in Iraq.

    -Text books that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

    Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many many people from Iraq that want us there and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will.


    We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone,
    anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happe! n to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.


  7. #52
    yellowwing
    Guest Free Member
    Is that what we have been reduced to? A simple minded copy and paste democracy? Is that all you got? No personal examples of life in the Republic?


  8. #53

    Don't close the blinds

    Out of the mouth of babes... Outstanding! I shed tears of pity for a people who have long lost their moral compass to do what is right. God help us to never forget how to make a fist and use it! If needed. God bless America!
    SEMPER FIDELIS!
    ben


  9. #54

    Don't Close The Blinds

    [QUOTE=iamcloudlander]Ladderwell
    I respect your right to your opinion but I was sent this in an email recently and I thought you might enjoy it.
    Here it is enjoy...Very thought provoking.

    DON'T CLOSE THE BLINDS

    Cloudlander,

    Interesting story, and one that address "doing the right thing." It has it's place in the mind of a child for dictating action, but not in the mind of an adult.

    We didn't go into Afhanistan until they trained terrorists who attacked NY. The Taliban had been doing all of the things mentioned in the story, but didn't go in until it was justified on the world stage. Otherwise, we would have caused more problems than we would have solved.

    Someone once said that the US is not the world's police force. We used to the the moral reference point for the world, but that is no longer so. It's been squandered.

    In the present, there are political systems equally as bad to many of their citizens as the Taliban (Korea, Iran, Somalia, the Congo, the Sudan, and others that come and go all the time. By the way, I didn't see the reality of Iraq in your story. It was unrelated. Back on point, the US needs to pick their battles, and only go into battles that we know we can win, and bide our time until it can be done right. We have an agressive US government now that only wants to fight and saber-rattle across the world. This causes untold numbers of people to hate us, and teach their children to hate us, and put it into their history books where our actions will be pointed to as examples of a "bad America," and they will be justified.

    Our present administration went int Iraq on the premise of WMDs ( a lie ), and their ties to terror (also a lie). That caused more trouble than the world can handle. None of what was actually going on was mentioned in your story, which is going on across the globe under other opressive governments. We know the results of the ill-advised actions, and no amount of 20-20 hindsight or making excuses (none really made yet), but fanciful rethinking and constructing weak rationalizations and justifications in that hindsight are cutting it in the eyes of a majority of US citizens, and certainly the vast vast majority of the rest of the people with whom we share this planet.

    The story was a nice story, but as adults, we cannot act with our hearts so much as we need to act with our heads.

    Respectfully,
    Ladderwell
    SF


  10. #55
    Marine Free Member 10thzodiac's Avatar
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    Exclamation Then I saw the enemy it was me

    After reading the pro-war posts after my last post, there are a number of things that come to my mind.

    Pre 1979 who supported the Iranian Shaw’s repressive dictatorship, whose brutal secret police the Savak, formed under the guidance of CIA who was murdering his own family. Who gave this murder of his own people aid in asylum?

    As far as the neighbor (Saddam) across the street killing his wife and children, who sold him the weaponry knowing this? Who supported this murder of his own family while warring and killing his neighbors the Iranians?

    Who are the people telling their children to go and kill their neighbor because they kill their family and neighbors?

    Look into the mirror and you will see the murder of you own children.


  11. #56

    And what "DAMAGE" HAS BEEN DONE?

    I say this because objectively, from all corners of the world and political spectrm, it is agreed that our current leadership has caused damage that will last for centuries. We will be taking it to our enemies during all that time, and because of our poor leadership, we have had our problems multiplied 10,000 times.If what you have said is true? Explain, in "DETAIL" what "DAMAGE" has been done? If you can't? I wouldn't be flippin' those gum's, without some significant proof.


  12. #57
    Marine Free Member 10thzodiac's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The devil is in the details-damage 10,000 times, al Qaeda or Bush foreign policy

    Quote Originally Posted by redneck13
    I say this because objectively, from all corners of the world and political spectrm, it is agreed that our current leadership has caused damage that will last for centuries. We will be taking it to our enemies during all that time, and because of our poor leadership, we have had our problems multiplied 10,000 times.If what you have said is true? Explain, in "DETAIL" what "DAMAGE" has been done? If you can't? I wouldn't be flippin' those gum's, without some significant proof.





  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by redneck13
    I say this because objectively, from all corners of the world and political spectrm, it is agreed that our current leadership has caused damage that will last for centuries. We will be taking it to our enemies during all that time, and because of our poor leadership, we have had our problems multiplied 10,000 times.If what you have said is true? Explain, in "DETAIL" what "DAMAGE" has been done? If you can't? I wouldn't be flippin' those gum's, without some significant proof.
    Redneck13,

    I get my data from: Leatherneck Magazine, the CSmonitor, AP, NPR, Boston Globe, and studying history books. It is the result of seeking knowledge when my son, a combat medic, was in the queue to head over there during the first Gulf War, the Balkans, and Afghanistan. I cannot list "in detail" what responsible citizens should have been learning all along over these past many years. If you are out of the Corps, then you should be studying too. Study the history of Islam from its beginning. Study the history of the League of Nations and the United Nations. Study Hitler and Mussolini's fascist states, the Fall of the Roman Empire. Read the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. Damage? Here are a few, and then I have to go to an appointment:

    1) 10,000 more Osama bin Ladens have been created in the world since the invastion of Iraq.
    2) The US is being left alone to fight the war in Iraq and the mess we've caused for ourselves.
    3) Our men and women are dying over there for no justifyable reasons other than now we have to fight a rear guard action as we try to exticate ourselves of the mess we've caused ourselves.
    4) Because we lied or went in on absolutely false information, no one in the Islamic world can every trust us to act intelligently or wisely in international affairs.
    5) We did what Osama bin Laden predicted we would do, and thereby proved his case to the Islamic world.
    6) We proved ourselves to be Yosemite Sam's, shooting first instead of thinking first. Our "cowboy diplomacy" doesn't work in the long run. Sure, we can run up body counts today, but that will be nothing compared to our own body count over the next 300 years, on the pile of which may be our own country.
    7) Iraq is proving to be a training ground for Islamic fundamentalists who will take take their training home with them, create instability all over the world. This instability will create dozens of fronts on which we must fight.

    Redneck13, does this make any sense to you?

    Take the passion we share for being good citizens and work towards long term solutions.
    *
    Respectfully,
    A fellow former Marine,
    Ladderwell
    Sf


  14. #59
    Marine Free Member 10thzodiac's Avatar
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    Exclamation War, 9/11 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaffer
    Thats funny...The current leadership has also saved thousands and thousands of lives by deterring the terror network. 9-11 was nothing compared to what Osama would like to do to the US. Funny how being underground helps curb the "big" attacks that are still being planned, but with less resources and opportunities.

    Funnier yet how the leadership before this one a couple opportunities to take our Osama, never acted on it and allowed the terror network to grow. Essentially leaving I for someone else with more balls to handle it.

    Funniest of all is how all the people bashing the war and leadership now, are the same people who had no problem with going to war right after 9-11.

    God I hate hypocrites!
    I thought everybody wanted Usama bin Ladin after 9/11, not war per se, especially Iraq.

    Balls to handle it? Where is Usama priority number one, oh he's hiding!

    American intelligence to see it coming past or present administration, LMAO

    No hypocrite here, it was tit for tat 9/11, I hope that isn't over everybody's head tit for tat? Repayment in kind for our Middle East policy.

    Smedley you were right, but it is dangerous to be right when your country is wrong, as you know and found out. Semper Fidelis to the First Marine who was a Marine deeper than his tattoo and worth his salt in telling the truth! "War is a Racket"

    Wake up America before more of our finest and treasure is squandered and it is too late.


  15. #60

    Right on the "MONEY" Jerry

    I'll have to say without reservation, "RIGHT ON THE MONEY JERRY", you made a "TERRIFIC" point. SF
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaffer
    Thats funny...The current leadership has also saved thousands and thousands of lives by deterring the terror network. 9-11 was nothing compared to what Osama would like to do to the US. Funny how being underground helps curb the "big" attacks that are still being planned, but with less resources and opportunities.

    Funnier yet how the leadership before this one had a couple opportunities to take out Osama, never acted on it and allowed the terror network to grow. Thus allowing 9-11 to happen. Essentially leaving it for someone else with more balls to handle it.

    Funniest of all is how all the people bashing the war and leadership now, are the same people who had no problem with going to war right after 9-11.

    God I hate hypocrites!


    Last edited by Shaffer; 09-09-06 at 02:44 PM.

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