Murder of two U.S. Soldiers

[OLE SARG]

Steve and Arlene,
You guys warm the cockles of my heart - if either of you EVER get to KC, I'll buy the brews!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,

[Arlene Horton]

You're on! Semper Fi

[RevMike]

Ol Sarge, just wondering............ are you a BOR premium member? Just wondering?

Rev. Mike

[marinemom58]

There are some things that really bother me about the murder of those two soldiers over the weekend.
From what I've read:
1. They were guarding a checkpoint, which makes me assume they were MPs. The took some fire and all but two or three took off after the people who did the shooting, leaving two guys hanging out to dry.
Someone's head better roll for letting that happen.

2. Why did those guys give up. If they were Marines they'd still be dead but the terrorists would have bled a lot, too. In my day we were trained to fight to the death. Has that changed?

3. Bush has gotten off track. He's been preaching that we're trying to make Iraq safe for Democracy. WE don't have a democracy. Why would we want to inflict it on anyone else. We have a Republic which protects us from being a Democracy. Benjamin Franklin described a Democracy as two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
We went to Iraq partly because of rumors of weapons of mass destruction, and there were those kinds of weapons there in the form of poison gas, biological material and possibly nuclear weapons.
The other reason we're there is because al-Qaida is there, and that's a fact. The new al-Qaida leader in Iraq claims credit for killing the soldiers. Said he did it himself.
THAT is the reason we're there. Not for Democracy.
C'mon Mr. President, you've let 'em sidetrack you. Get back on course. You're right and those of us who know better are behind you. We're in a war, we're not spreading Democracy.

My Father, Sgt, Cobbs, Edward, used to say, "Marines would never be captured alive, they fight to the death". I grew up hearing that all my life. My son, LCPL Graves, Christopher, US Marines now serving his second deployment
to Iraq, says the same thing. I understand that. I just wonder, were those two boys unconscious when they were captured? It is so maddening and as a mother, it makes me want to go to that god-forsaken place and join in the fight and bring all of those boys home!!!!

[marinegreen]

Good chance they ran out of ammo MM5, or after seeing there buddie killed they could have thrown up there arms,it could be a number of reasons.We'll have to wait and see what the spin will be.

[marinemom58]

Thanks for answering. Yes You could be right on all accounts. I would like to know the whole story.

[thedrifter]

Three slain troops were left behind to guard bridge, military says
Associated Press

TIKRIT, IRAQ - Two missing soldiers whose mutilated bodies were found after a massive search had been left alone at a checkpoint near Baghdad while other vehicles in their patrol inspected traffic, a military spokesman said Thursday.

Soon after Pfc. Kristian Menchaca of Houston and another private vanished and another soldier was killed last Friday, one Iraqi told reporters that insurgents had managed to separate a three-Humvee convoy by opening fire and forcing two of the vehicles to give chase.

Other Iraqis told reporters that the vehicle carrying Menchaca and his two companions had fallen behind the convoy and was attacked by insurgents.

Those reports now appear to be wrong, said Lt. Col. Michelle Martin-Hing, a U.S. spokeswoman in Tikrit.

Menchaca and the two other soldiers had been left with one Humvee to guard a hydraulic bridge at a Euphrates River canal about 12 miles south of Baghdad. When the Humvee was attacked by insurgents, others in the unit could not see the vehicle and were checking on their colleagues by radio, Martin-Hing said.

She said a focus of the investigation will be to determine why the three-man team had been left at the canal. Army protocols are designed to prevent such attacks.

"The investigation is going to look at whether proper procedures were followed," Martin-Hing said.

The bodies of Menchaca, 23, and Pfc. Thomas Tucker, 25, of Oregon were found late Monday in Yusufiya, a few miles from the attack scene, during a search by about 8,000 U.S. and Iraqi troops.

The bodies were sent to Dover Air Base in Delaware for DNA testing. The body of the third soldier, Spc. David Babineau, 25, was found Friday at the scene of the attack.

[marinegreen]

A ARSE-NINE DECISION,Heads need to roll !!!!

[Osotogary]

I don't know 'cause I wasn't there but it sure reads like someone knew the three Humvee convoy was heading their way even though "Those reports now appear to be wrong."
Was there a pattern of travel set, eg., three humvees, all the time, same departure and arrival time, same amount of people and supplies in each humvee?
Somehow I think back to what I've heard or read about how the tactical mindset has changed from once being the hunter to now that of being the hunted. Why that comes to mind, I don't know but these kind of stories do not reinforce hunter mentality...in my opinion.
(Note: I am not a military expert on tactics defensive or offensive. It's just that this whole scenario seems so wrong.)
May their souls rest in eternal peace.

[marinegreen]

Believe me Gary, they have people pooping and snooping on us(recon,gathering imfo) and yeah,these rag heads are still in the fight,hell look at how long the AFGAN people kept Russian in the fight (10 yrs.) If they can kill our men/women by whatever means availble they'll do it.There chitten in tall cotton if they can kill one of us.

[Osotogary]

Marinegreen-
I'm in total agreement with your assessment. This, I heard, happened not too long ago and I would never assume that this would never happen again.
Dammmed if someone didn't discover one of the "locals", who had been "in good faith" employed, trying to steal a truck full of explosives! Don't know what happened next but the explosives were returned.

[FistFu68]

REST IN PEACE~SOLDIERS! YOU DIED WITH YOUR BOOT'S ON!

[junker316]

Gary

There are these things known as " Ambush areas " that alot of Marines have gaurded until the Army stepped in when it was a little quieter for them. After that the Amry Commanders would not patrol the same areas or even send as many gaurds to these known points. Most likely the Insyrgents had scouted the areas for days and noticed some routine pattern, Same amount of vehicles, same amount of men, limited weapontry, watched as to how these areas were being gaurded, at what points on the clock the gaurds were moving, etc...and devicied a plan accourding to what the actions of the Army were. When the Marines were on outposts like this we were always told that if there was action to take appropriate actions and if the enemy left to call in and allocate the direction and such so that some-one could pick them up and take action. Not to chase them or put ourselves into a more dangerous areas or even to abandon our post because of fyrther actions that could be taken by the enemy. I guess the Army High Command didn't get these briefings or just plain ignored them. If you read other of my posts on this issue from earlier it will explain why I say what I say. But the damage is done and it took the lives of three Soldiers to teach the Army High Command that what the Marines were doing was done for a reason.