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Thread: Murder of two U.S. Soldiers
06-20-06, 01:35 PM #1
Murder of two U.S. Soldiers
There are some things that really bother me about the murder of those two soldiers over the weekend.
From what I've read:
1. They were guarding a checkpoint, which makes me assume they were MPs. The took some fire and all but two or three took off after the people who did the shooting, leaving two guys hanging out to dry.
Someone's head better roll for letting that happen.
2. Why did those guys give up. If they were Marines they'd still be dead but the terrorists would have bled a lot, too. In my day we were trained to fight to the death. Has that changed?
3. Bush has gotten off track. He's been preaching that we're trying to make Iraq safe for Democracy. WE don't have a democracy. Why would we want to inflict it on anyone else. We have a Republic which protects us from being a Democracy. Benjamin Franklin described a Democracy as two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
We went to Iraq partly because of rumors of weapons of mass destruction, and there were those kinds of weapons there in the form of poison gas, biological material and possibly nuclear weapons.
The other reason we're there is because al-Qaida is there, and that's a fact. The new al-Qaida leader in Iraq claims credit for killing the soldiers. Said he did it himself.
THAT is the reason we're there. Not for Democracy.
C'mon Mr. President, you've let 'em sidetrack you. Get back on course. You're right and those of us who know better are behind you. We're in a war, we're not spreading Democracy.
06-20-06, 05:49 PM #2
My thoughts and prayers go out to those two poor Army lad's and their families.As a former Royal Marine who served in 45 Commando RM in the Yemen in 64/65 but served 11 yrs as a Royal Marine from 1957/68 I say I think it's all about OIL!! and let's get all the Lad's out of that God forsaken hole ASAP.our Prime Minister Tony Blair seems to be up Bushe's a--- a mile but thats politions for you.They NEVER have to fight.
06-20-06, 06:01 PM #3
I do not know if this is a rumor but if it is true I hope we KILL every MAN, WOMAN, & CHILD that even looks like a combatant. These brave Americans had their eyes cut out; their genitals cut off and stuffed in their mouths, and beheaded ALL while their hearts were still beating. God, please say this is not so. WE are not spreading democracy WE ARE AT WAR!
06-20-06, 06:15 PM #4
I'm not happy with the way some things are being handled over there, but remember one thing--the guys who did this are al-quaida. We're looking for every one of them to kill. They're the *******s who took down the World Trade Center and killed 3000 Americans. We've got them over there where they're in our sights. Kill 'em all, let God sort them out!!!!!!!
06-20-06, 06:27 PM #5
To all this is something that isn't just offencive in nature but in retaliation to the US for killing thier leader. It didn't matter so much that minutes before that the post came under attack but that it was planned out that if there was any-one left behind that another ambush would happen. I don't see any Liberals or Left wingers or even extremists of any type parading around like a peacock in defence of these two American Soldiers. These two young men didn't deserve to die while under surrender, if that is what they did, or to be tortured and mutilated and left to rot in the desert sun. We are to create an atmosphere of well being for thier POWs yet they can do to ours what they wish. When some " innocent " is killed under combat conditions these rebel rousers jump out of the wood work to create the ANTI- EVEYTHING agenda. Yet when Two of Americas fighting forces are tortured and slain while under the enemies rule no-one jumps out of anywhere to suggest that maybe there is a reason for collateral damage. No-one comes to the aid of the America families to comfort them and help them throughout the time of loss of a loved military member but instead wish to protest against BUSH while a service member is being placed in the final resting place. The Code Of Conduct , being what it is, is something I am sure that these young men held firmly to. The enemy doesn't acknowledge the Geneva Convention nor do they accept surrender as a means of " Well being " and Fair Treatment of POWs. I feel really Mornful for the families left behind and the Soldiers for facing death the way they must have. We fight an enemy that holds nothing higher than religion and it's purposes for them, to include human life or the lives of their own people, and as military members who have been or are now deployed to these areas we must fight blindfolded and our hands tied around our backs vor fear of the " CNN " issues that we may face for doing our job.
It makes me sick to my stomach to know that here in America we have " Americans " more willing to help the enemy, to rally for illegal immigration, to allow higher gas prices ( price gouging ), and support anti American causes. Than we have Rallies for America Justice against an enemy that is willing to kill for religious purposes and not be tried for thier unjust acts against Americans and other nationals across the globe. We are threatened daily by these extremists and thousands die by their handy work and yet the marches for their rights against us being there continue on our soil. I was raised to believe that America is a proud and up-standing nation worth defending at the price of my life if need be. What happened to America????? The American way of life???? The reasons our fore-fathers fought and died for??? The reasons we fight and die today???? Maybe I let my emotions run a little bit but I wish for all to know that my heart and prayers go out to every militray member that has served, is serving, and will serve in the future that all return home. To a place worth it's wieght in American Lives that I used to know. The same reasons I joined and served proudly for so many years. America is worth saving.
06-20-06, 06:31 PM #6
This pi**es me off,why do they not have these troops at these check points loaded for bear, unless things have changed these young PFC's more then likely only had there m-16's, these are check points,they should have a 50 cal. gernades,laws to support them,you dont know what will be coming your way. How long were these 2 in country ? The rumor mill has it that there back up arrived 15 mins later,quite along time when these young men were screaming over there radio's we need HELP.Our brass knew there would be retaliations after that fuq zawqari was taken out.If you cant come up with a better plan for our guards at these check points then atleast supply these yung-ens with a capsule of cyanide to pop in there mouths, I'd rather do myself in then to watch as a fellow soilder has his balls ripped out,eyes gouged out and his throat slit or beheaded and then knowing I would be next,why give these sand maggots the glory of killing these young inexperienced troops.Bush should at least make a personnel visit to there familys and attend there funerals.REST IN PEACE SOILDERS,you did what you were asked to do with very lil back up.Rumsfeld should go walk the post, he's the one that said we dont need more troops over there cuz that would make us the occupiers. <<<<
06-20-06, 06:59 PM #7
Since I came back from Iraq in 2005 I will explain about the check poines after I return from a wlak with the fam..
06-20-06, 08:00 PM #8
While I was in Iraq the Army was sending Soldiers and National Gaurdsmen in monthly. The Areas that the Marine Occupied were turned over to the Army in alot of cases. The Check points were mostly in " HIGH " danger zones and congestive areas. Like Clover Leaf Highways and along the patrol routes. Of course the lucky Marines had the front or back gates of the Camps. Those not so lucky were sent to the, what we called, " the open range ". When the Army took over in the areas that the Marines had the Army didn't patrol the same areas and left itself open for attack on two to three sides. Marines did a 360 patrol where as the Army did a 90 to 180 patrol. Thus leaving it's check points open to attack as well. In most cases that average Soldier on a check point did not even have a " combat " load of ammo and when the Marines left I don't believe that the Army even had a manned M-240 or 50 cal at many of the check points that they took over. The Marine Corps check points had various weapons to defend ourselves with while the Amry check points had very little other than the M-16 and occassionally a M-203. The patroling areas were reduced due to fear of an open attack by the insurgents by the Army while the Corps contiued to patrol 360 in our areas. The attitude of the Army was very differnet than when I was in the Army from 1988-1992. It was almost as if they expected to fill every body bag they had with tem with one of their own. While the Marine Corps was ready to die if need be but a stronger willingness to live and return home. The Soldiers that I came into contact with acted like they were " back on the block " and payed little attention to detail. The walked around causually and in most times without thier gear even near them. The Army Command didn't think it was important to continue the same patrol routes as the Marine Corps routes but they did think it was important to man cerntain check points at all times even through the patrols wouldn't be near the CP for hours at a time. The only time any Soldier would see a military vehicle while manning a CP on the range was when thier relief was coming or chow. I remember Soldiers telling me of how they would play cards or a gameboy or even listen to music on a CD Player to pss the time away. I took this as they weren't concerned about what was happening around them because of the distraction they created for themselves. I'm not saying that this is what happened on this occasion. The 101st Airborne is known for it's fighting capablities and it's hardness. But then again that was also years ago when I tried out for the 101st and broke my leg on a jump. The training was some of the roughest I had in my life and at that time it meant everything to be Airborne qualified.
But as it is The Army Command has allowed itself to be centered on a weak defensive strategy and a half assed offense while in country. I Blame the Army Commanders for failing these two Soldiers and the one that died in the Hummer. From a witness stand point, of which I don't talk much about to any-one, The Army Command in Theater has thier heads in thier tird point of contact and are sacrificing the lives of thier men and women lives because of **** poor planning. They would rather be politically bound for thier own personel glory than to properly protect and patrol as they should be doing.
I have also been told, and was present within ear shot of Army and Marine officers, that the Army Command in Theater has left most of the " patroling " up to the Company Commanders of the units and not enforcing the check points with the proper equipment. I watched as IEDs killed Soldiers because they didn't know what to look for. They didn't watch for wires or would pick up something for a sovenier to take home. I watched as Soldiers looked skyward during Mortar and rocket attacks like they were going to see them coming and know which way to run. I seen Marines and Soldiers alike get surprised by the enemy but the reactions from each were totally different. The Marines went for cover while the Soldier looked confused as to what to do next. I am not saying that all Soldiers had these problems but alot of them did. Marines were living minute to minute and second to second but the Soldiers were living day to day and week to week. I don't think that the Army check points are now or were then prepared for such an enemy as they are facing in Iraq or Afghanistan. As I stated before My heart and prayers go out to those that served, are now serving, and will be serving in the future that they return home.
Even when I went to Kuwait for the redeployment back to the USA the Soldiers, Nation Gaurdsmen, and Reservists there thought they were on vacation until they looked at those coming out of the Battle Ground. Severe Lack of training was what I noticed while in Kuwait and I am sure that it went into Iraq as well with the US Army.
06-20-06, 08:24 PM #9
War for oil......That's funny...Did we free Kuwait for their oil fields? Funny, we don't seem to control those. We totally control iraqs oil fields so of course prices have decreased dramatically...LOL...libs make me laugh.
Originally Posted by Rod Spinks
06-20-06, 08:50 PM #10
Originally Posted by Mike McIntyre
As with all of you, my heart and prayers go out to these families. As well, to their buddies in arms. We don't need a 'rouge spear' group going for retribution. This IS another chance for us to show that we are above the brutality that the 'al-quida' (?sp) life offers these people.
I am disturbed that reports say the bodies are coming back to teh states for DNA testing. That suggests that the bodies are unidentifiable in the field, BUT NOTHING MORE.
While the AMERICAN in me is seething at the edges, the MARINE is saying access the situation. Often, discretion is the better part of valor. Can we make good of this tragedy ?? Gain the momentum in winning the people. After all, THEY are the key to winning this war. Until the common people unite against the barbarism, there will be no 'win/win' situation.
06-20-06, 09:26 PM #11Originally Posted by mrbsox
I have to disagree Terry, I'm sic and tired of us having to play by the geneva convention when these radical we are trying to destroy are using our captured soilders for voodoo dolls, a stick here,a slice there,a poke there.OK we've been there 4 + yrs and it doesnt seem to me that we are winning over that many people, if thats the case wheres that fuqing binladen and granted we got em but it took long enough to kill zawqari. hOW COME WE HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO KILL EM NICELY, War is not pretty and whats the difference if we blow em up into tiny pieces or use them for voodoo dolls.We dont kill our own women and children like they do and I wouldnt forsee it ever happening if war was on our own soil.Kinda like if you challenge me to a fight,I'm not gonna hurt you nicely, I'm gonna make that person regret challenging me by what ever mean nesscesary. Those who read this can call me what you want or any vile names you want but I know where I stand with this political war. I'm pi**ed knowing this young men were put at a check point not loaded for bear,fuq the next thing we'll read is where our troops couldnt defend themselves, "THEY RAN OUT OF ROCKS TO THROW"
06-20-06, 10:08 PM #12
I have not looked @ all of the profiles of all POSTERS
I gotta bury A Soldier in TEXAS in the next wk or so. I spents 2 yrs, 4 months and 16 days too long in the Paddies, poop has not changed too much, different weapons, same tactics (maybe ?), Gotts a son over their (2nd Tour), something tells me (like the 4 Marines snipers) it was a set up. GOOKS all over again. You can't tell me any different, the poop has been upgraded. END OF STORY.
books, BTDT 2 many times, luv y'all
06-20-06, 10:22 PM #13
We need the same outrage of our media over the beheading of our troops who were captured, that is given to the silly claims of the terrorists in Guantonomo.
The lesser claims of that abuse do not compare to this kind of barbaric activity.
America should be outraged as a nation and speak out.
06-20-06, 10:43 PM #14Originally Posted by RevMike
The govt is trying to turn us into bleeding hearts and some have, Its Oh we feel sorry for these soilders but lets not do the same to them, we're sorry you have to have a closed casket.Sorry Rev, but some of these peeps make me wanna puke. SF
06-20-06, 11:12 PM #15
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