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  1. #1

    Cool Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question

    Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
    By Marc Morano and Randy Hall
    CNSNews.com Staff
    January 13, 2006

    Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam

    (CNSNews.com) - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.

    Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.

    A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.

    "[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.

    Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.

    Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."

    In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.

    "Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

    "I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

    However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.

    When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.

    "Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.

    On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.

    "The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.

    Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.

    "Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.

    Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.

    The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.

    "In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.

    But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.

    "I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.

    A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."

    Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.

    The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.

    "I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."

    Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."

    "I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.

    In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.

    'He's a phony and a liar'

    Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.

    ... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.

    Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.

    "At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.

    "You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.

    In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.

    "The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.

    Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.

    "The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.

    According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"

    But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.

    "You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.

    Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.

    "Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.

    "Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.

    Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'

    During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.

    "Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.

    In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.

    "I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.

    "I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.

    Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.

    "I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.

    The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.

    Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.

    (Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)

    Ellie


  2. #2

    Cool

    Murtha's Anti-War Stance Overshadows Abscam Past
    By Randy Hall and Marc Morano
    CNSNews.com Staff
    January 13, 2006

    Read Article About Murtha's military record

    (CNSNews.com) - Members of the press have given extensive and glowing coverage to Rep. John Murtha's criticism of the war in Iraq, but have overlooked a number of other controversies the Pennsylvania Democrat has experienced over the past 25 years. This includes his reported role as an un-indicted co-conspirator in the Abscam bribery scandal of the late 1970s and early 1980s.

    Murtha has denied any wrongdoing, but Cybercast News Service has learned that one of Murtha's former allies, a Democratic congressman who served on the House Ethics Committee in 1981 and says he lobbied colleagues not to censure Murtha, now believes Murtha lied to him about his role in Abscam.

    Since Murtha's Nov. 17, 2005, call for an immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, one CNN anchor has called him "one of the most highly respected members of Congress," the Associated Press has referred to Murtha as "one of Congress' most hawkish Democrats," and ABC News has noted that he is "a decorated marine who served in Vietnam."

    But a search of the Nexis online database by Cybercast News Service found only three newspaper articles over the past two months connecting Murtha with the FBI's Abscam (short for "Arab scam") sting operation that led to the arrest of several congressmen for accepting bribes.

    According to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, "Murtha was one of eight members of Congress lured to a Washington, D.C., townhouse by a team of FBI agents posing as representatives of a fictitious Arab sheik. They handed out briefcases filled with $50,000 in return for helping the sheik gain residency in the United States."

    Noting that Murtha "is not squeaky clean," the Brattleboro, Vt., Reformer reported that the congressman "did not take the cash" offered by the agents. Instead, "he asked the fake sheik to consider investing some money in his struggling home town, Johnstown."

    The Washington Post referred to the incident as "an ethical scrape" in which Murtha was "named as an unindicted co-conspirator and testified against two House colleagues."

    But, a videotape of a Jan. 7, 1980 Abscam-related meeting involving Murtha shows that the congressman's rejection of the offered bribe was less than definite. "I'm not interested. I'm sorry," Murtha told the FBI agent, but added that he meant "at this point.

    "You know, we do business for a while, maybe I'll be interested, maybe I won't," Murtha said on the FBI videotape.

    The congressman told the undercover FBI agent that he was a member of the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct and acknowledged: "If you get into heat with politicians, there's no amount of money that can help."

    In November 1980, the Justice Department announced that Murtha would not face prosecution for his part in the scandal. "I did not consider that any money was offered, and certainly none was taken," Murtha told reporters. "The FBI who taped the entire conversation knows damn well no money changed hands."

    Eight months later, the House ethics panel also chose not to file charges against the Pennsylvania Democrat.

    A July 30, 1981, article in the Washington Post quoted a committee source as saying that several allegations of misconduct against Murtha were rejected on a "near party-line vote." Since the panel was made up of six Democrats and six Republicans, seven votes were needed to file any charges.

    Serving on the House panel in 1981 was Rep. Don Bailey (D-Pa.), who told Cybercast News Service that he was responsible for preventing the committee from punishing Murtha. "I saved his (posterior)," Bailey said.

    "I worked hard, and I argued," and members of the committee "agreed with me," Bailey stated. "Part of my argument was that the FBI was overdoing it and there wasn't evidence that [Murtha] was doing anything wrong."

    In 1982, as a result of congressional redistricting, Murtha and Bailey were forced to run against each other in a Democratic primary. Murtha emerged the winner.

    In 2002, Murtha's ethics again became an issue in the congressional election. Bailey issued a public letter, the contents of which have been the Internet and confirmed by Bailey. In the letter, Bailey admits that his opinion about Murtha's involvement in Abscam had dramatically changed by 2002.

    "I was, to be honest, critical about how you misled me about Abscam where you convinced me you had voluntarily told federal agents about the offer of money to you," Bailey wrote Murtha in the letter.

    "I learned later, after I had successfully defeated the ethics charges against you, that you had merely manipulated the system to cooperate with federal agents to avoid prosecution," Bailey added.

    On Jan. 9, Bailey told Cybercast News Service that he now believes Murtha was "pretty damn stupid" during the Abscam sting.

    "The idea that somebody is going to trot out $50,000 in cash in front of you and you don't know that is wrong is pretty damn stupid to me," Bailey said. "What bankers or investors run around with $50,000 in cash?"

    Just hours after the July 1981 House Ethic Committee vote sparing Murtha from charges, E. Barrett Prettyman, Jr., special counsel for the panel's Abscam investigation, abruptly resigned. At the time, Prettyman refused to discuss with the press his reasons for stepping down.

    When contacted by Cybercast News Service regarding the investigation, Prettyman called the Murtha situation "very interesting," but declined further comment, citing the need to maintain attorney-client privilege.

    Similarly, when Prettyman was interviewed by the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call in 1990, the former special counsel declined to comment on why he had resigned. But when pressed on whether the resignation was due to the Ethics Committee's vote on Murtha, Prettyman said that would be "a logical conclusion.

    In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha confined his reply to the controversy surrounding his military service and did not address the accusations surrounding Abscam.

    "Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.

    "I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.

    Murtha has thus far refused to release his full military records.

    'One-man wrecking crew'

    Since the Abscam scandal, Murtha has worked to limit the power of federal law enforcement officers.

    In 1997, he spearheaded two measures -- one to prohibit non-members of Congress from filing complaints with the House Ethics Committee, and another to reimburse members and regular citizens for legal fees if they are ultimately cleared in a Justice Department probe.

    This drew fire from Gary Ruskin, who at the time was director of the Congressional Accountability Project. "When it comes to institutional policing of corruption in Congress, John Murtha is a one-man wrecking crew," Ruskin said.

    In response, Murtha argued that the legal fees amendment would "serve as a warning to the Justice Department to no longer interpret House rules to suit its own needs."

    The Fiscal Year 2005 defense appropriations bill also created problems for Murtha. He helped write the bill, and it reportedly contained millions of dollars in federal funding for at least 10 companies represented by KSA Consulting -- a lobbying firm that includes the congressman's brother, Robert "Kit" Murtha, as a senior partner.

    Murtha has denied any wrongdoing, and an Ethics Committee investigation into the KSA Consulting matter may be conducted later this year.

    'Instantaneous hero'

    Anyone who calls for the withdrawal of U.S. military forces in Iraq "like Murtha and (peace activist) Cindy Sheehan becomes an instantaneous hero," Cliff Kincaid, editor of the conservative Accuracy in Media (AIM) Report, told Cybercast News Service, while "the media regard supporters of the war as fools and dupes."

    To many in the media, Kincaid noted, the failure to find stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq "was absolutely convincing evidence this war was dishonestly sold.

    "They're not going to let that happen again. In order to get back at the administration, they're going to try to undermine the policy with constant gloom and doom and negative news," Kincaid said.

    However, Jim Naureckas, editor of Extra!, the bimonthly magazine of the liberal group Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR), disagreed that Murtha was receiving special treatment from the press.

    "For someone who is considered, at least on military issues, to be a fairly conservative Democrat, to come out and say what he said, that's a pretty newsworthy thing," Naureckas told Cybercast News Service, referring to Murtha's call for U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq.

    "Up until Murtha's statement, very few people in the opposition party had signaled that getting troops out of Iraq was a priority, and the people who had were generally on the left end of the party and could be more easily marginalized," Naureckas said.

    Meanwhile, Bailey -- Murtha's former ally turned antagonist -- told Cybercast News Service that he is not bothered by the establishment media's decision to ignore the congressman's link to Abscam or any of Murtha's other troubles.

    Murtha may be "a wise old sage" by now, Bailey said, pointing to what he called Murtha's real area of expertise -- proposing "pay increases in the United States Congress.

    "He does that well," Bailey concluded.

    (Monisha Bansal contributed to this article.)

    Ellie


  3. #3
    yellowwing
    Guest Free Member
    How long before they start rolling out stories that Murtha hates America?


  4. #4
    oh no this dont sound good...


  5. #5
    MURTHA: VAST MAJORITY OF U.S. TROOPS WILL BE OUT OF IRAQ BY END OF YEAR
    Fri Jan 13 2006 17:14:15 ET
    Drudge Report

    Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) believes the vast majority of U.S. troops in Iraq will be out by the end of the year and maybe even sooner. In his boldest words yet on the subject, the outspoken critic of the war predicts the withdrawal and tells Mike Wallace why he thinks the Bush administration will do it. The interview, a portion of which will appear on tonight's (13) CBS EVENING NEWS, will be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday Jan. 15 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

    "I think the vast majority will be out by the end of the year and I'm hopeful it will be sooner than that," Murtha tells Wallace, in the 60 MINUTES interview.

    "You're going to see a plan for withdrawal," says Murtha, which he believes Congress will pass because of mounting pressure from constituents tired of the war that could affect the upcoming midterm elections. The political situation will force President Bush to accede to Congress, he says. "I think the political people who give [the president] advice will say to him, 'You donÕt want a democratic Congress. You want to keep a republican majority, and the only way you're going to keep it is by reducing substantially the troops in Iraq,'" Murtha says.

    The president has said publicly that any decision regarding Iraq would be based on the situation there and not on Washington politics.

    Murtha rejects the president's argument that the war on terror is being fought in Iraq. "The insurgents are Iraqis - 93 percent of the insurgents are Iraqis. A very small percentage are foreign fighters.... Once we're out of there, [Iraqis] will eliminate [foreign fighters]," says Murtha. "[President Bush] is trying to fight this war with rhetoric. Iraq is not where the center of terrorism is," he says. "We're inciting terrorism there.... We're destabilizing the area by being over there because we're the targets," Murtha tells Wallace.

    When Wallace challenges him by saying, "General Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, says your comments are damaging recruiting and hurting the troops," Murtha responds by saying it's the military's own fault. "[Troops] are rotated [into Iraq] four and five times. They have no clear mission," says Murtha. "One of the problems they have with recruitment is [that] they continually say how well things are going and the troops on the ground know better."

    President Bush has said there are only two choices in Iraq: victory and defeat. And he has implied that Murtha is a "defeatist." Murtha, of course, disputes that.

    There have been 13 servicemen from his Congressional district killed in Iraq. Could the families of those dead be offended? Wallace asks. "Well, I hope [those families] understand," says the Vietnam combat veteran. "It's my job, my responsibility to speak out when I disagree with the policy of the president of the United States," says Murtha. "All of us want this president to succeed... I feel a mission here, with my experience, that I have to help the president find a way out of this thing."

    Developing...

    Ellie


  6. #6
    murtha ranks right up there with kerry who ranks as whale**** with me. I didn't realize or know that murtha refused to disclose his military records - sounds fishy, or kerry, to me. murtha blows a lot of hot air but all he has to do is disclose his military records and the big hub-bub would be over. Has he got something to hide, like kerry who has never disclosed his military records probably for good reason? Makes one wonder, doesn't it??????

    SEMPER FI,
    OLE SARG


  7. #7
    Marine Free Member
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    still waiting on president monkey pants military record, oh, that's right, they got shredded.


  8. #8
    I guess that if you can't make it on your own merits you attack another's record, right or wrong. Marines have displayed Valor in combat and received nothing more then the "well done" comment. The way it is. Much is expected from Marines. This guy was in the Army and is passing judgement on a Marine. Someone needs to tell him to step down.


  9. #9

    Why Now

    Whois Cybercast News Service?
    And who stands to gain with this release?
    Also do we review everybody Purple Heart or Purple Hearts if there is more than one award and it, isn't obivious why a person was awarded a Purple Heart?
    I get the feeling this smites of trying to silence Rep/Colonel John Murtha.
    Everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion.
    I read another point of view Thursday, at the VA, it was in a special edition or pull out of News Week magazine, it was written by a 1st Lt of Marines, who served in Afghanistan and Iraq.
    He written a book on his service, what makes this officer different, he was from one of those Ivy Leaque schools.
    Some of his friends and fellow students, thought he was wasting his education by becoming a Marine officer.
    Yet, he states that he had to make decisions that the State Department should have made.
    He calls for a draw back, not a pull out.
    Because setting a date, they know they will just have to wait us out, till we're gone.
    makes sense to me.
    So like I said everybody is entitled to his or her own opinion.
    We just have to weight each on it's own merit...

    Semper Fidelis
    Ricardo


  10. #10

    murtha

    My take on this whole thing is!!!!!! If you are a public figure you should be required to disclose your military record (some don't, i.e., jane fonda kerry). If you have nothing to be ashamed of it should be no problem. I'm not questioning murtha's hero status like I do kerry's, but if you served honorably what's the big deal about disclosing your military record. When you refuse to, it stinks of "I have something in there I don't want the public at large to see."
    In my opinion, kerry will not disclose his records because there is a question on the type of discharge he got. As far as Purple Hearts - I respect that award but in kerry's case you have an officer (I use that word loosely with ms. kerry) who wrote up his own citations, THEN rewrote them along with his combat awards years later. It just plain STINKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My opinion---------------------

    SEMPER FI,
    OLE SARG


  11. #11
    Marine Free Member Wyoming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLE SARG
    My take on this whole thing is!!!!!! If you are a public figure you should be required to disclose your military record (some don't, i.e., jane fonda kerry). If you have nothing to be ashamed of it should be no problem. I'm not questioning murtha's hero status like I do kerry's, but if you served honorably what's the big deal about disclosing your military record. When you refuse to, it stinks of "I have something in there I don't want the public at large to see."
    In my opinion, kerry will not disclose his records because there is a question on the type of discharge he got. As far as Purple Hearts - I respect that award but in kerry's case you have an officer (I use that word loosely with ms. kerry) who wrote up his own citations, THEN rewrote them along with his combat awards years later. It just plain STINKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My opinion---------------------

    SEMPER FI,
    OLE SARG
    Totally agree!!!


  12. #12
    According to these stories I also rate a purple heart cause when I was in khe san, charlie blew up a head and some of the crapnel landed on me!!
    Does that qualify me for it?


  13. #13
    Registered User Free Member lovdog's Avatar
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    I hear what you all are saying - disclosure is the only rememdy for whether someone is truthful about his service record. All of us that were privy to combat know of those that received awards and citations that were not deserving of them. I was always led to believe that a "true" Marine would not accept a medal if not deserving. (example) A bronze star was awarded to a Captain for meritorius "administration duty"!! We had two enlisted men that moved a burning A6 Intruder loaded with 28 - 500# bombs away from the other loaded planes - probably saved quite a few lives in the process, while risking their own - and all they got was a bronze star!! Which one was deserving?? I guess its up to the Powers that may be" to make those decisions. I totally agree that a person's service record should be public knowledge. Any writeup on the CMH is public record, why shouldn't other records of awards or citations also be treated the same, unless one has something to "hide"??? Maybe Congressman Murtha or Congressman Kerry aren't so proud of their records?? But, lets not forget "Humility" !! Yes, thats it!! They are too damn proud of their records to let "us" public see what our military "elite" really did!! I'm from PA, but don't blame me - I didn't vote for Murtha!!! Didn't vote for Kerry either!! You guessed it, I'm a Republican.
    By the way - No Ed - you don't get a purple heart for getting hit by a bunch of crap - if that was the case, they would have run out of purple hearts and toilet paper along time ago.


  14. #14

    Murtha....Integrity

    I noticed earlier in this thread that it didn't matter that Murtha had to "ask" for his Purple Hearts. Last time I heard, you don't have to "ask" for the PH you're "given/awarded the medal. This whole thing revolves around his integrity. Any of you reading this knows that one of the worst things you can do as a Marine is lie or wear ribbons/medals that you don't deserve. I've been out quite a while but from what I remember it is an Article 32 offense to wear ribbons/medals you don't rate. The bottom line on Murtha for me is this. This son of a ***** threw those young Marines from Kilo Company under the bus before he really knew anything. We all know that in the Corps you are guilty until proven innocent, just the way it is. I would have expected him to wait and then make his comments either way. If those Marines did what they are accused of, they should be punished, just don't try them in the media for your politcial gain. Jack Murtha is an EX-Marine to every FORMER Marine I have spoken to about this. He has definitely forgot where he came from..

    K. Brown



  15. #15
    Most Marines dont want to get a purple heart......and Murtha is asking for them ...geeeeeezzz.....wow what a great guy. I like how when anyone asks him about it he immediatly changes the subject with something about the "brave men and women blah blah blah blah" ....answer the question turd.


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