Get Off His Back (Updated)

[Devildogg4ever]

I tend to agree with enviro & Joseph P Carey!!! Hate to see them get away with it!

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Donald Bowers
My problem is: If we can get help to the tsunami in 16 to 18 hours, than why in the hell does it take 4 day to get help to our guulf coast!!!!!!!

First of all, we didn't get help to the Tsunami Victims first, the Aussie's did! Let's not take credit for something we did not do!

As far as why not NO? Politics! Elected Officials not knowing what to do in a disaster! I have to take a look at two distinct and seperate areas. Mississippi and Louisiana. The Governor of MS was telling people where they could pick-up their state checks on Wednesday ( http://www.governorbarbour.com/KatrinaState.htm ). The Governor of LA could not tell you where the LANG was on Wednesday ( http://www.lapolitics.com/index.php ) The first LANG Units rolled into NO on Thursday. The people of MS organized to assist others; the people of NO and LA were disorganized and assisted no one. The people of MS accepted help from others; the people of NO turned away trailor loads of bottled water from Walmart!

The only saving grace for the State of LA was the US Coast Guard (a Federal Organization). Well done Coast Guard!!!

[yellowwing]

Did you miss the part where LtGen Honore acknowledged that Louisiana called for help the previous Friday.

[Joseph P Carey]

My dear brother Wing, did you miss the part where the US Government can not enter unless requested by the governor of a state under the Posse Comitatus Act. Added, the storm missed NO, and there was no great disaster in No until 24 hours after the storm, while people in the Mississippi and Alabama area were in great need of assistance. Government agencies do not turn on a dime.

The fact that the LA Gov called for assistance on Friday before the storm hit, and the storm missed, nullified the original request. The State of LA had sufficient National Guard Troops to handle the situation on Monday morning, but it is strange that the flooding occurred on Monday, and the LANG did not arrive until Thursday. This mainly because the LA Gov did not know where the LANG was, and she never gave orders to go into the city. There was no communication between the LA Gov and The MoNO (Mayor of New Orleans). The MONO was stockpiling people at the SuperDome, and never told anyone that the Convention Center was filling with People that threw the NOPD out of the area. He was to busy covering his own inadequacies, and not working for the people of NO.


Those people sat and waited for the LANG, which did not come until Thursday!

Meanwhile, the only helicopters in the air over NO were painted Orange. They were the Coast Guard! The Coast Guard was operating within two hours of the flooding of the city, and you can not tell me that the MONO could not get a message to the LA Gov over a Coast Guard Radio.

Perhaps you can tell me what happened to the NOPD's Helicopter? Also, tell me what happened to the LANG Helicopters you speak of sitting north of the city?

The US Government was there in the Person of the Coast Guard, and no one else was! Again, Well done Coast Guard! No one has given these guys the credit they deserve. They did one hell of a job, and they kept the city from going down the tubes completely.

What do you say gentlemen? A little OoRah for the Coasties! Brave and dedicated men and women one and all!

[yellowwing]

No it did not nullify the Louisiana Gov't State of Emergency declared on Friday the 26th. She sent a request to the White House on Saturday the 27th and they immediately responded with an Emergency Declaration backdating it to the 26th.

Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana
The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing.

The Feds took responsibility, backdated it (probably for legal reasons) and most importantly added the 'continuing' verbiage. No nullification.

Meanwhile the available LANG, all 5 helicopters were on rescue missions. She did write another letter requesting that the bulk of the LANG be assigned to disaster relief when they returned from Afghanistan.

Its not MONO or LAG's fault. FEMA and Homeland Security just were not up to the task this time around.

Hundreds of firefighters from around the country are still stuck in Atlanta going through FEMA Red Tape.

[Nagalfar]

Am I to understand J.P. Carey, that unless the State Gov. is smart enough to request help from the Feds, you think the Feds should just stand by and wait? at what level of a body count would make it ok for them to do what is right even when they have not been asked to do so? 1? 100? 1000? how many? and, I am very aware of the laws in regards to the feds intervening when they are not invited, should the feds just stand by and watch Americans die because the idiot at the switch is asleep, or is just plain too stupid to yell for help? how bad does it PIS* all of us here off when we watch some wanna be 3rd world thug on the news killing Americans?, and yet our govt. does nothing, thus, adding even more insult to injury? dead is dead, and watching Americans die, is watching Americans die, intent dont mean a thing when the end is the same.. dead is dead, be it some wanna be tough guy or our own govt. watching and waiting.. how many credits does one get for intentions?

Based on this theory, I hope that you never have anyone you care about drowning in a lake that is posted no swimming.. with a bunch of "absolute law abiding citizens" standing by unwilling to break the law to save the person drowning.

I will leave you a quote from one of this nations founders.. "Absolute law, is the most unjust of all laws"... I think that means you DON'T have to stand by and watch people die if saving them is against the law..

[GySgtRet]

Nagalfar,

The governor of the state that is effected by a disater manmade or natural has to declare that part(s) a distaster area and request help from FEMA, etc.. Remember the days of President Ragan please. The states spoke of their statehood and wanted big govern ent out of their business. This is supposed to reduce the welfare state...??? Not in LA it didn't. I do not have stats on all of this but I vividly remeber the response of President Ragan.. God rest his soul. Damn good president.

Semper Fidelis

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by yellowwing
No it did not nullify the Louisiana Gov't State of Emergency declared on Friday the 26th. She sent a request to the White House on Saturday the 27th and they immediately responded with an Emergency Declaration backdating it to the 26th.


The Feds took responsibility, backdated it (probably for legal reasons) and most importantly added the 'continuing' verbiage. No nullification.

Meanwhile the available LANG, all 5 helicopters were on rescue missions. She did write another letter requesting that the bulk of the LANG be assigned to disaster relief when they returned from Afghanistan.

Its not MONO or LAG's fault. FEMA and Homeland Security just were not up to the task this time around.

Hundreds of firefighters from around the country are still stuck in Atlanta going through FEMA Red Tape.

Brother Wing, There were 900 LANG available for operations within miles of the City of NO, and they did not arrive until Thursday for no other reason other than they were not ordered into the city. Good Soldiers do what they are told to do by whom they expect to be correct thinking politicians in charge of matters. There were around 1200 NO Policemen before the flooding began. There are untold numbers of LA State Troopers and other Lawenforcement agencies in LA, and there was still no presence of any matter on the streets of NO, and not one looter was shot, not one murderer at the SuperDome was shot, and not one murderer of people at the Convention was shot.

Now, knowing there were murders committed in the convention center, including a Five year old girl that was gang raped, and had her throat slit, and the perpetrators were pointed out to the authorities, and nothing was done to them. In fact, they were allowed to board a bus and to go to other cities in the USA, because the local authorities were afraid to get involved with the street gangs.

All that man power that could have been conscripted and could act as laborers and the suspected criminals were allowed to leave the city, because they were afraid of them. That is disgusting! They should have been lined up against the wall and shot like the animals they were.

All this could have been prevented if the MONO city and GOLA of LA state house had the guption to get out and do something about it. And, they did not!

[yellowwing]

On the 27th, according to the White House press releases, the emergency was declared at the National level and FEMA and Homeland Security had responsibility then. They did not live up to thier duties.

Even the Boss said their initial response was "unacceptable".

[Nagalfar]

GySgtRet, I agree totally in principal, but, let me say this.. I would do what ever it would take to save lives, as long as it didnt cost life's to save life's, I would do it, rules be damned, and if cost me my job.. so be it, I can get another one.

[greensideout]

JPC, where did you get the info on the five year old child being killed?

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Nagalfar
Am I to understand J.P. Carey, that unless the State Gov. is smart enough to request help from the Feds, you think the Feds should just stand by and wait? at what level of a body count would make it ok for them to do what is right even when they have not been asked to do so? 1? 100? 1000? how many? and, I am very aware of the laws in regards to the feds intervening when they are not invited, should the feds just stand by and watch Americans die because the idiot at the switch is asleep, or is just plain too stupid to yell for help? how bad does it PIS* all of us here off when we watch some wanna be 3rd world thug on the news killing Americans?, and yet our govt. does nothing, thus, adding even more insult to injury? dead is dead, and watching Americans die, is watching Americans die, intent dont mean a thing when the end is the same.. dead is dead, be it some wanna be tough guy or our own govt. watching and waiting.. how many credits does one get for intentions?

Based on this theory, I hope that you never have anyone you care about drowning in a lake that is posted no swimming.. with a bunch of "absolute law abiding citizens" standing by unwilling to break the law to save the person drowning.

I will leave you a quote from one of this nations founders.. "Absolute law, is the most unjust of all laws"... I think that means you DON'T have to stand by and watch people die if saving them is against the law..

You are to understand that this is a country of Constitutional Law! These laws are enacted by an act of Congress! No one said they had to make sense, but as I see it, the Government was already involved, and without the Coast Guard there would have been no action what-so-ever in NO!

Watching people die is nothing new to us; we have done it before, because we were constrained by law and politics. As it was, the NO authorities were not too very keen about enforcing law in their own city, and they allowed murderers to get on buses and be transported away from their crimes to other US Cities. There was food available in the city of NO, and it was not gathered up and made available for the residents, because it may have been a fight with the local gangs.

It has nothing to do with absolute law; it has to do with the fact that there was no law in NO! The criminal, not the authorities, was running the city! The State of Louisiana did not send in their own troops until Thursday, why should anyone else have done so to protect the egos of LA Politicians.

I am sorry that the people of NO died, but there was nothing that could have been done, without the City and State doing their part first.

As it was, the hurricane had past 24 hours previous to the flooding, and the different FEMA people were not needed, and other people did need them. New Orleans was not the only people affected by the storm, just the largest concentration of people! Other cities and government did not fall apart like NO did, and other leaders did not fail their population the way the NO did!

The Government of the USA is responsible for other people other than politicians that do not know how to do their job. Again, Posse Comitatus is the Law, and it is to be respected, with exception, when Congress meets and says other wise, and they did not do that! Not Theory, Brother Negalfar, but Laws and agreements that have made this country what it is, a Constitutional Republic of States bound by laws not personal feelings!

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by greensideout
JPC, where did you get the info on the five year old child being killed?

You will read it, unless the media does not wish to print it, and make a big deal of it.

[yellowwing]

LtGen Honore in his DOD Briefing further confirms that the National Guard was rolling the next day after the National Emergency was declared. Meaning Sunday. LAG asked for it Friday evening.

HONORÉ: Yeah, that was incremental. The security force piece was executed through a process called EMAC [Emergency Management Assistance Compact]. That started on Sunday, a collaboration between the [states' National Guard] adjutant general and the National Guard Bureau to flow additional capabilities to Louisiana and to Mississippi.

That flow started approximately around Sunday. Forces started moving once the eye of the hurricane had passed and we could start moving forces in and assist the states, Alabama pushed forces into Mississippi as well as forces from Texas started to flow into Louisiana, as well as other states.

Dangit Joseph! Are you going to make me look up all this stuff?

[greensideout]

Originally posted by Joseph P Carey


You will read it, unless the media does not wish to print it, and make a big deal of it.

You are right, if the spin of the story fits the agenda of the media it will be printed, if not it won't but that is not what I ask. Where did you get that info? Why should I believe it?