Did Israel deliberately allow 241 American Marines to die? - Page 3
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  1. #31
    Carey, you don't have to defend yourself against Anti-Semitism on this site. That's just one of the tools the Israelis use to discredit anybody who opposes them.
    I've echoed your sentiments and my wife is Jewish. So it's not about Judaism, it's about Israel.

    GunnyL


  2. #32
    Originally posted by GunnyL
    Carey, you don't have to defend yourself against Anti-Semitism on this site. That's just one of the tools the Israelis use to discredit anybody who opposes them.
    I've echoed your sentiments and my wife is Jewish. So it's not about Judaism, it's about Israel.

    GunnyL
    Thank you Gunny, believe me, there is not anyone on this board less prejudice against anyone then I. The fact that I am not PC enough to sit down and shut up is a big problem with me. If there is a problem I will say so, and I will not hold back one word by being PC!


  3. #33

    Get your head out of your a$$ fool!

    Just saying that somebody hasn't kicked your ass don't make it so. I'm not "walking away". Sorry to hear that you're insulted. Didn't realize the truth would hurt so.

    I realize that talking to you has the same impact as talking to a wall. You come to the table with nothing new. Just old information and common knowledge. What's to argue with you, or refute? Your position has already been proven wrong many times over by people better than me, or you. That's what I'm *trying* to get into your thick, brainless, liberal skull. The paint is peeling...

    For You Information (I spell it out, because you obviuosly are challenged in many ways) when two people start flaming each other on a forum the POLITE thing to do is to take it to email.

    You want to continue this? Then send me a private message. I.E. Take it outside, and stop boring everybody else, or shut the f*%k up!!


  4. #34
    daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


  5. #35

    Re: Get your head out of your a$$ fool!

    Originally posted by radio relay
    Just saying that somebody hasn't kicked your ass don't make it so. I'm not "walking away". Sorry to hear that you're insulted. Didn't realize the truth would hurt so.

    I realize that talking to you has the same impact as talking to a wall. You come to the table with nothing new. Just old information and common knowledge. What's to argue with you, or refute? Your position has already been proven wrong many times over by people better than me, or you. That's what I'm *trying* to get into your thick, brainless, liberal skull. The paint is peeling...

    For You Information (I spell it out, because you obviuosly are challenged in many ways) when two people start flaming each other on a forum the POLITE thing to do is to take it to email.

    You want to continue this? Then send me a private message. I.E. Take it outside, and stop boring everybody else, or shut the f*%k up!!
    Radio! What the heck are you smoking boy? I make statements about Israel, and, by your own words, they are truthful statements. If I am wrong than prove it. You say they have all been refuted, but you offered nothing to back you up.

    Please show me that they (Israel) did not attack the USS Liberty and rake the decks with their MGs killing US Sailors and US Marines, after an Air and Torpedo attack on a US Flag Ship that was clearly marked with its name and its number, and armed only with Four .50Cal MG that were taken out in the air attack, and did they (Israel) not shoot up the life rafts set in the water the US Sailors hoped to use to evacuate other wounded Sailors and Marines from harms way, and all this after the ship so identified by the Israeli Defense Forces Headquarters as an American Flag Ship.

    Please tell me that the leaders of the country of Israel are not, and were not, Terrorists when they indiscriminately bombed, killed, and terrorized innocent civilian populations, including Jews that did not believe the way they did.

    Please tell me why the gentleman, and admitted member of the Massad, would say that the Israeli Government had information that would have saved US Marines, and did not transmit such information to the US Government.

    Please tell me where the State of Israel is not a Theocracy that discriminates against anyone that is not Jewish to the point of imprisonment, murder, exile, and torture for their individual beliefs, politically and religiously.

    Please tell me that the Israeli Tank Commander did not order his driver to grind beneath his tracks an innocent girl from the USA, because she was working to assist Palestinians.

    Please tell me that the Israelis did not attack innocent women and children in refugee camps with no warning, and no quarter given.

    Please tell me why it is that most of the Israeli Defense Forces will not serve in the West Bank, and in Gaza, because they do not wish to murder innocent human beings at the behest of their government.

    Radio, You may have at me any time you wish, I can assure you that it will be the worst day in your life should you try. You have called me lame brained, because I print the truth, and you know no way to fight the truth except to call me prejudice, or a Jew hater, or Liberal, or some other crap like that, but I have noticed that you have printed nothing to the contrary of what I have said, you only desire to kill the messenger, and you refuse to attack the message, as if, by you calling me your mindless names, the message will disappear. Well! The message does not go away!

    Are you sure they did not remove your spine when you left the Corps? Not one swear word have I used towards you, and other than claiming that you are not loyal to the USA, but to Israel over and above the USA, I have not gone after you personally one iota. If you wish to publish what you claim are truths to my lies about Israel, please do so, but I do not personally talk to disloyal Americans that take the side of a terrorist country over that of the USA. My personal opinion of you is that you are a brainwashed twit that can not see the truth when it is thrown into his face.


  6. #36
    Radio, this is an exert from the posting of Phantom Blooper August 12 2005 09:32 AM, titled Israel Charged With Systematic Harassment of U.S. Marines.

    This article shows the level of Israel¡¯s friendship towards the USA, and the arguments Israeli operatives made against anyone accusing the Israelis of not being a good friend to the USA! Sounds remarkably similar to your comments about me!

    Added, it also puts Arial Sharon at the command of the two very distinct Sabra and Shatila massacres, nothing unusual for the Israelis! After all, they don¡¯t take Media Reporters with them in their Armed Attacks, because everything they do as a government is conducted in the dark, just like terrorists!

    It not only shows that the Israelis had information on the Marines being killed, but the US Embassy Bombing that killed 63 Americans, and Israel did not give this information to the Americans as well (Source, Massad Officer, Ostrovsky, Victor and Claire Hoy, By Way of Deception, New York, St. Martin's Press, 1990.)!

    Added to that, their opening up of the Marine flanks to attack by moving their units from the area, if I remember correctly you said that the USA put undue hardship on the Israeli Army, but you seem to forget, the Israeli's Attack into Lebanon was illegal, and the USA tried to help, but was quickly put into an untenitable position by the Israelis!

    Exerts of this article come from an article written by Donald Neff

    No Stranger to the Marines (Israel)

    However, on Feb. 2, a unit of three Israeli tanks, led by Israeli Lt. Col. Rafi Landsberg, tried to pass through Marine/Lebanese Army lines at Rayan University Library in south Lebanon. By this time, Landsberg was no stranger to the Marines. Since the beginning of January he had been leading small Israeli units in probes against the Marine lines, although such units would normally have a commander no higher than a sergeant or lieutenant. The suspicion grew that Sharon's troops were deliberately provoking the Marines and Landsberg was there to see that things did not get out of hand. The Israeli tactics were aimed more at forcing a joint U.S.-Israeli strategy than merely probing lines.

    In the Feb. 2 incident, the checkpoint was commanded by Marine Capt. Charles Johnson, who firmly refused permission for Landsberg to advance. When two of the Israeli tanks ignored his warning to halt, Johnson leaped on Landsberg's tank with pistol drawn and demanded Landsberg and his tanks withdraw. They did!

    Landsberg and the Israeli embassy in Washington tried to laugh off the incident, implying that Johnson was a trigger-happy ¡®John Wayne¡¯ type and that the media were exaggerating a routine event. Landsberg even went so far as to claim that he smelled alcohol on Johnson's breath and that drunkenness must have clouded his reason. Marines were infuriated because Johnson was well known as a teetotaler. Americans flocked to Johnson's side. He received hundreds of letters from school children, former Marines and from Commandant Barrow. It was a losing battle for the Israelis and Landsberg soon dropped from sight.

    But the incidents did not stop. These now included "helicopter harassment," by which U.S.-made helicopters with glaring spotlights were flown by the Israelis over Marine positions at night, illuminating Marine outposts and exposing them to potential attack. As reports of these incidents piled up, Gen. Barrow received a letter on March 12 from a U.S. Army major stationed in Lebanon with the United Nations Truce Supervisory Organization (UNTSO). The letter described a systematic pattern of Israeli attacks and provocations against UNTSO troops, including instances in which U.S. officers were singled out for "near-miss" shootings, abuse and detention. That same day two Marine patrols were challenged and cursed by Israeli soldiers.

    Two days later Barrow wrote his letter to Secretary of Defense Caspar W. Weinberger, who endorsed it and sent it along to the State Department. High-level meetings were arranged and the incidents abated, perhaps largely because by this time Ariel Sharon had been fired as defense minister. He had been found by an Israeli commission to have had "personal responsibility" for the Sabra and Shatila massacres.

    Despite the bad taste left from the clashes with the Israelis, in fact no Marines had been killed in the incidents and their lines had been secure up to the end of winter in 1983. Then Islamic guerrillas, backed by Iran, became active. On the night of April 17, 1983, an unknown sniper fired a shot that went through the trousers of a Marine sentry but did not harm him. For the first time, the Marines returned fire.

    The next day, the U.S. Embassy in Beirut was blown up by a massive bomb, with the loss of 63 lives. Among the 17 Americans killed were CIA Mideast specialists, including Robert C. Ames, the agency's top Middle East expert. Disaffected former Israeli Mossad case officer Victor Ostrovsky later claimed that Israel had advance information about the bombing plan but had decided not to inform the United States, a claim denied by Israel. The Iranian-backed Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility. Veteran correspondent John Cooley considered the attack "the day [Iranian leader Ayatollah] Khomeini's offensive against America in Lebanon began in earnest."

    Still, it was not until four months later, on Aug. 28, that Marines came under direct fire by rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons at International Airport. They returned fire with M-16 rifles and M-60 machine guns. The firefight resumed the next day with Marines firing 155mm artillery, 81mm mortars and rockets from Cobra helicopter gunships against Shi'i Muslim positions. Two Marines were killed and 14 wounded in the exchange, the first casualties in actual combat since the Marines had landed the previous year.

    From this time on, the combat involvement of the Marines grew. Their actions were generally seen as siding with Israel against Muslims, slowly changing the status of the Marines as neutral peacekeepers to opponents of the Muslims. Israel could hardly have wished for more. The polarization meant that increasingly the conflict was being perceived in terms of the U.S., Israel and Lebanon's Christians against Iran, Islam and Lebanon's Shi'i Muslims.

    Accelerating the Conflict

    Israel accelerated the building conflict on Sept. 3, 1993 by unilaterally withdrawing its troops southward, leaving the Marines exposed behind their thin lines at the airport. The United States had asked the Israeli government to delay its withdrawal until the Marines could be replaced by units of the Lebanese army, but Israel refused. The result was as feared. Heavy fighting immediately broke out between the Christian Lebanese Forces and the pro-Syrian Druze units, both seeking to occupy positions evacuated by Israel, while the Marines were left in the crossfire. On Sept. 5, two Marines were killed and three wounded as fighting escalated between Christian and Muslim militias.


  7. #37
    It would seem to me, anytime anyone, friend of enemy makes you aware of a weakness, and they dont kill you, 2 things should happen, first tell them Thank You for exposing your weakness, and second, be smart enough to forever learn what might have got you killed. You cant walk a dog tail first, blaming anyone other than Washington for the loss of our brothers is off the map.. the simple fact remains, we should have never been there unless we were ready to fight the very second we were so much as even provoked, to respond with anything less than a "mad minute" would be a invite to those who seek to kill Americans. The problem is not Israel, or the IDF, it was Washington who made the choice for us to be there, it was Washington who didn't have proper Intel, or even a planned response planned to the "what if's happen".

    Blaming Israel is like sticking you head in the sand, Israel can't order our brothers into a combat zone or any other zone, that happens in Washington. It dont matter what Israel knew or didn't know, that is OUR job to take care of OUR own, Like it or not, Israel at the moment is our only friend in the Sandbox at the moment.. and like they say down town "a butt is is butt when your in a rut", sometimes you just have to take what you get and be happy with that.. because its far better than NOTHING.

    NOW.. dont make me pull this car over!!


  8. #38
    Nagalfar,

    The fact remains that Israel has the best politicians that money can buy, and they are all in the US Congress! Tell me they can't deploy US Troops!

    The fact is that Israel has claimed the spokesmanship as the leader of the Jewish People of the world, and many American Jews I know are not of that same opinion, but our US Congressmen are so worried of the Jewish vote that they do not wish to be deemed not PC. They are of the opinion that Israel is the voice of the Jew, and the dollars in their pockets from such organizations supporting the Israelis point of view can not but reinforce that belief.

    Again, tell me they can not put US Troops into the field!


  9. #39
    Carey, you ain't got a clue. Your diatribe is based on a secular view of history and present day activity. Do you think you know what Israel is and what Israel represents in the conflict of the world? I don't think you do. You are begining to iritate me.


  10. #40
    Originally posted by greensideout
    Carey, you ain't got a clue. Your diatribe is based on a secular view of history and present day activity. Do you think you know what Israel is and what Israel represents in the conflict of the world? I don't think you do. You are begining to iritate me.
    Enlighten me as to what I have said that is wrong, or a lie about Israel? Now, who hasn't a clue?


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