Did Israel deliberately allow 241 American Marines to die?

[Phantom Blooper]

by Joseph Sobran

Yes, says Victor Ostrovsky, a former Israeli secret agent. In a new book, By Way of Deception: A Devastating Insider's Portrait of the Mossad, Mr. Ostrovsky says the Israelis had advance notice of the suicide attack that killed 241 Marines in Beirut in October 1983 but withheld the information from the United States in the hope that the attack would poison American Arab relations.
The Israeli government is desperately trying to block publication of the book, which also says the Israelis are "actively spying, recruiting, organizing and carrying out covert activities mainly in New York and Washington, which they refer to as their playground."

Although it can hardly succeed and will probably back fire, the censorship attempt enjoyed initial success in both the U.S. and Canada. Obliging courts in both countries have ordered that the book be at least temporarily suppressed When it comes to Israel, freedom of speech and of the press is considerably less than total, even in America.

Mr. Ostrovsky says Israeli agents heard he had written the book and tried to bribe and threaten him to dissuade him from going into print. He is now in hiding.

More than 17,000 copies of By Way of Deception are in print, and many reviewers have already received copies. If the book divulges sensitive information, as the Israelis' lawyers say, it's too late to stop other governments from getting it. The only purpose of the censorship is to stop Americans from reading Mr. Ostrovsky's account of how Israel allowed U.S. Marines to be slaughtered

Books are rarely suppressed in America (at least not by direct government intervention), and by the time you read this, By Way of Deception will almost certainly be unshackled. Then the Israelis will have to either discredit the author or argue, as they did in the case of the spy Jonathan Pollard, that the decision to let the Marines be killed was a "rogue" action.

Mr. Ostrovsky's allegations should be shocking. Letting the troops of a benefactor nation be blown up in their own compound is hardly the act of a "reliable ally," as Israel is said to be.

But you have to wonder whether anyone will really be shocked. The act would be consistent with a long pattern of reprehensible Israeli behavior toward the U.S. Some of it has been widely publicized; no doubt the largest part of it has never been discovered.

If anyone ought to be stunned, it's the many pundits who echo Israeli propaganda to the effect that Israel is America's only valuable and trustworthy ally in the Middle East. If they mean what they say, they should be publicly changing their minds, or at least demanding a thorough investigation into Israeli conduct toward this country.

Congress ought to be shocked, too, to the extent that its all-out support for Israel has been sincere rather than venal and cowardly. But how many of our elected representatives will dare, or care, to ask tough questions about whether our ties to Israel have done serious damage to this country's interests?

Such questions are not only long overdue, they are especially urgent right now, when the United States may be on the verge of a full-scale war in the Middle East, and the Israel lobby is eager to see America launch hostilities against Israel's chief enemy, Iraq.

The path of least resistance is to say nothing, to go on pretending that the interests of the U.S. and of Israel are virtually identical, to keep repeating that Israel is our "reliable ally" and "strategic asset." Any politician or journalist who says otherwise, even for the good of America, does so at risk to his career. That's why there is so little open debate on these matters. Even our press isn't fully free.

And now the Israeli government has mounted a direct attack on press freedom in America itself. It will be instructive to see whether the press corps goes on acting unshocked.

Joseph Sobran is a nationally syndicated columnist who now maintains a Website at http://www.sobran.com.

[sgt.lane]

That is crap!!!! WHY would you not advise one of your allies??????????????????????????????????????????/

[mrbsox]

Does

'KEEP YOUR FRIENDS CLOSE, AND YOUR ENEMIES CLOSER'

ring any bells ??

I find it hard to believe also, and don't want to. But just as OUR first obligation should be to the United States, so should there's be to Israel.

[GunnyL]

You guys should do some research into Israeli conduct towards Americans.
Israel has and will always look out for her own best interest, if that means American lives then that's just the cost of doing business.
Israel is not America's friend other than they keep their hand extended for the handouts they get from us. The Israeli's actively probed the Marine lines in Beirut and there were outright confrontations between the Marines and the Israeli soldiers.
Remember the USS Liberty? The Israeli's intentionally shot at a U.S. vessel which was flying a US Flag. They killed 24 Sailors during that attack. They did it because it was an ELINT ship and they didn't want the US to be able to prove that it was they and not the Egyptians who started the 6 day war.
There are a lot of good articles and books out about Israel, you should read some of them, you'll find some very intersting reading.

GunnyL

[Nagalfar]

There is on point that I feel comes before this, did Israel have advance intel on this happening? means what now I am not sure, but I DO KNOW this.. Ismalal Ascari, an Iranian, drove the 19-ton truck over the barbed wire fence around the barracks, past two guard posts, and into the center of the compound, it should have NEVER been allowed to get past the wire without the driver being killed, second where was American Intel? this truck bomb weighed in between 15,000 and 21,000 pounds of TNT. We couldn't get anything on this much explosives or simtex or what ever the hell they used being moved? If Israel knew and didnt give us a heads up the I say maybe we should rethink giving them so much aid and tech, but either way, if our Govt. wouldn't allow our brothers to defend themselves in Beirut of all damn places I blame our govt. even more than I blame anyone else, we knew up front they would be a target going in... At least President Reagan stepped up and took the blame for it.. it still didnt bring our brothers back.

[GunnyL]

You hit that one on the nose Nagalfar. It was ultimately the responsibility of the Officers in charge of Security of the Barracks and the U.S. Government in establishing the rules of engagement. If you read the book out by David Hunt, "They just don't get it" he specifically addresses the lapses in the Reagan Administration concerning the Beirut Bombings and the **** poor way in which they handled the situation.
My point above is related to the story about the book "By Way of Deception" which by the way was released in 1990 so the story is very old. You can get the book on Amazon and it's already out in Paperback. There is another thread that's active as regards to Israeli involvement in Beirut.

GunnyL

[Joseph P Carey]

Some of you people have a short memory! This is nothing new! It was known that the Massad had the information some years ago, and it did not tell the US about the intelligence, it is also known that the UN knew of the strike in advance, and again, did not inform the US about the threat.

The Marine standing duty in front of the building did not even have rounds in his weapon, as per orders, and by the time he had loaded a round into his weapon, the truck was through the fense and headed towards the building!

Let us also not forget the USS Liberty! The Israeli Army ordered the attack on the US Ship under the American Flag, Killing 31 Brother US Sailors and 2 Brother US Marines, and the wounding of 168 Brother Sailors and 1 Brother Marine!

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/
On Wednesday, June 8, 2005, the attorney for the USS Liberty Veterans Association filed a report with the Department of Defense detailing the war crimes the Israelis committed during their June 8, 1967 attack on the USS Liberty.

According to the directive that governs the submission of the report the Department of Defense is required to conduct an investigation. If they do not, we have recourse.

A copy of the press release in PDF format is at:
http://www.freewebs.com/gidusko/Lva_press_release.pdf"

A copy of the report in PDF format is at:
http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.pdf

A copy of the report in HTML format is at
http://ussliberty.org/report/report.htm

USS Liberty, attacked by Israeli forces in the Eastern Mediterranean, 8 Jun. 1967, Sailors killed 31, Sailors wounded 168, Marines killed 2, Marines wounded 1

[Phantom Blooper]

The Israeli's actively probed the Marine lines in Beirut and there were outright confrontations between the Marines and the Israeli soldiers.

When I was in Lebanon in 1983 prior to the bombing of the Marine barracks and about three months after the embassy bombing my platoon was split up and sent to two different checkpoints. My Plt Sgt. went with part of the platoon to Checkpoint # 35 and I the Plt.Guide at the time stayed with the Plt. Cmdr. at Checkpoint# 69. The Israeli tanks were maintaining a position not far from my checkpoint,guesstamate 200 meters. The Lebanese army had a small out post right outside our checkpoint position. The Israeli tanks would come down and get as close to the railroad tracks... the cut off point about a hundred meters with the tanks just to upset the LAF and get them to swing the American provided M-16's up in the air and want to start firing ,so they could blow them away. The LAF did not know this was a joke to the Israeli's. They would do it just too watch them scramble .....although it was quite comical the Americans would have been right in the center of this firefight.

The Lt. and I watched what was going on and then put the remainder of the platoon/attachments in the bunkers and left our compound and approached the lead Israeli tank with the tank commander in it. He came roaring down the hill to the railroad tracks hot-dogging and showing off. When he did stop in a cloud of dust, he stuck his head out and spoke the most perfect English that a grammar teacher would be proud of. He spoke to us and said that they have been doing that since the end of the "Hundred Day War" whenever they felt they could get a rise out of the LAF. He was a duel citizen of the United States and Israel and educated at Harvard,an had big business interests in the states. They agreed to stop the harassment of the LAF at least for awhile and they tried to make it strictly on their terms....but that didn't work since our checkpoint was right in the crossfire. They also more or less stated that if they did fire upon the LAF that they could have claimed that they,the LAF fired first and nothing would have been said because the U.S. administration would have taken Israelis side. History repeats itself..yes!

Semper-Fi! "Never Forget" Chuck Hall

[Kegler300]

Another reason why we need to do everything to ensure OUR intelligence service is second to none!

[Joseph P Carey]

USS Liberty, a sad day for the Administration of President Kennedy and the Democrat Congress of the USA, in defense of Israel over the Lives of US Servicemen:

The "Moorer Commission" (Chaired by Adm. Moorer) investigated the attack and made the following findings:

"We, the undersigned, having undertaken an independent investigation of Israel's attack on USS Liberty, including eyewitness testimony from surviving crewmembers, a review of naval and other official records, an examination of official statements by the Israeli and American governments, a study of the conclusions of all previous official inquiries, and a consideration of important new evidence and recent statements from individuals having direct knowledge of the attack or the cover up, hereby find the following:

1. That on June 8, 1967, after eight hours of aerial surveillance, Israel launched a two-hour air and naval attack against USS Liberty, the world's most sophisticated intelligence ship, inflicting 34 dead and 173 wounded American servicemen (a casualty rate of seventy percent, in a crew of 294);

2. That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired 30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency radio channels;

3. That the torpedo boat attack involved not only the firing of torpedoes, but the machine-gunning of Liberty's firefighters and stretcher-bearers as they struggled to save their ship and crew; the Israeli torpedo boats later returned to machine-gun at close range three of the Liberty's life rafts that had been lowered into the water by survivors to rescue the most seriously wounded;

4. That there is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew; evidence of such intent is supported by statements from Secretary of State Dean Rusk, Undersecretary of State George Ball, former CIA director Richard Helms, former NSA directors Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.), Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.), and Marshal Carter; former NSA deputy directors Oliver Kirby and Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.); and former Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon in 1967;

5. That in attacking USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States;

6. That fearing conflict with Israel, the White House deliberately prevented the U.S. Navy from coming to the defense of USS Liberty by recalling Sixth Fleet military rescue support while the ship was under attack; evidence of the recall of rescue aircraft is supported by statements of Captain Joe Tully, Commanding Officer of the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga, and Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, the Sixth Fleet carrier division commander, at the time of the attack; never before in American naval history has a rescue mission been cancelled when an American ship was under attack;

7. That although Liberty was saved from almost certain destruction through the heroic efforts of the ship's Captain, William L. McGonagle (MOH), and his brave crew, surviving crewmembers were later threatened with "court-martial, imprisonment or worse" if they exposed the truth; and were abandoned by their own government;

8. That due to the influence of Israel's powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

9. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

10. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy's 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

11. That the truth about Israel's attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace;

12. That a danger to our national security exists whenever our elected officials are willing to subordinate American interests to those of any foreign nation, and specifically are unwilling to challenge Israel's interests when they conflict with American interests; this policy, evidenced by the failure to defend USS Liberty and the subsequent official cover-up of the Israeli attack, endangers the safety of Americans and the security of the United States.

WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel's possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the truth, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as

USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate USS Liberty's heroic crew; and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.

We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.

Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Ret.
Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH

Former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps

Merlin Staring
Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret.,
Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy,

James Akins
Ambassador James Akins, Ret.,
Former United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia"

[Phantom Blooper]

Mossad´s Record

In Victor Ostrovsky's book, "By Way of Deception: A Devastating Insider's Portrait of the Mossad" (Toronto: Stoddart, 1990) we discover many remarkable things about this "extreme right" organization.



•Who is Victor Ostrovsky?

"Ostrovsky, a Canadian born of an Israeli mother and Canadian Jewishfather, spent most of his formative years in Holon, Israel. He was, at age 18, the youngest officer in the Israeli military. A weapons-testing expert, he was recruited by the Mossad and completed their extensive training program, becoming a katsa, or case officer, only to grow disillusioned with the organization's aims and operations and return to Canada."

In his own words:

"I was elated when I was chosen and granted the privilege to join what I considered to be the elite team of the Mossad.

But it was the twisted ideals and self-centered pragmatism that I encountered inside the Mossad, coupled with this so-called team's greed, lust, and total lack of respect for human life, that motivated me to tell this story.

It is out of love for Israel as a free and just country that I am laying my life on the line by so doing, facing up to those who took it upon themselves to turn the Zionist dream into the present-day nightmare."

•Spying on American Citizens

First off, we learn that the Mossad often receives information from the CIA, while it has a policy of never giving such information out - even if the lives of Americans are in danger. Also, we discover that a super-secret division of the Mossad (called Al) is active in New York and Washington - engaged in spying on American citizens, recruiting Jewish "helpers", and carrying out covert activities. It employs between 24 and 27 field personnel, and most of their activity is with U.S. borders (primarily New York and Washington).

•Systemic Utilization of Jewish Abuse of Position

We discover also that, thanks to the threat of anti-Semitism, the Mossad can tap the "significant and loyal cadre of the worldwide Jewish community outside Israel." These volunteer Jewish helpers, placed in convenient positions, can, say, help agents secure documents from their employer's office, or money if needed, or keys to a person's room in the hotel where they work (for assassination).

Apparently the threat of anti-Semitism, which is exaggerated by orthodox groups to enforce cohesivity, results in a reflexive betrayal of social positions and trusts whenever the specter of anti-Semitism is manifested by Mossad agents.

•The Bombing of an Innocent Libya

We are informed, in Victor Ostrovsky's next book "The Other Side of Deception", that the Mossad was the controlling force responsible for the American action against both Libya and Iraq. It is a remarkable story of how American sentiment was manipulated by the subterfuges of a foreign country, the outcome of which could only entail the risking of American lives (Iraq: at least 600 dead) and the enmity of the Arab world.

The Mossad placed a transmitter on Libyan soil which made it appear that Libya was sending terrorist orders to its various embassies, which the gullible Americans decoded and considered to be real, even though they failed to predict the attack on Le Discotheque in West Germany which - ironically - was the very "provocation" which was used to justify the strike.

Only the French, whose secret service is more astute at recognizing the hand of Mossad, were not fooled. And this was the reason why the French did not allow the United States to use their airspace for what was, in essence, an aggressive act against an innocent party - An act which resulted in the death of three Americans and forty Libyan civilians, including Qadhafi's adopted daughter.

•The Persian Gulf War

"Even as early as May 1, 1986 was the Mossad working on building up Saddam Hussein as a great threat to the world. The main reason for this was the threat his giant armies posed to Israel after the Iran-Iraq war which had previously occupied him. This is the REAL reason we bombed Iraq. The story of this Jewish action is of greater complexity, since it spanned a greater length of time - in which the American public was successively propagandized through a wide variety of sources.

"The Mossad's psychological warfare machine activated every agent it had, including volunteer agents in Amnesty international and fully bought members of the U.S. congress to portray Saddam Hussein as a great threat to the world. Grisly footage of the Mossad-financed Kurds who were killed, casualties of the ongoing guerrilla war with Bagdad, were shown on Jewish run U.S. television.

"An Iraqi explosives factory was blown up by Mossad operatives to generate publicity about the gigantic and powerful military arsenal that Saddam was bulding. And after the explosion, when the Iraqis invited journalists to see how their rebuilding efforts were going, a Mossad agent approached a former agent, who had been caught prying into Mossad affairs in search of a story, to join the reporters going to Iraq to gather information on the factory - threatening to reveal his criminal background if he didn't participate in the action. This former agent was caught spying in Iraq, arrested, and hanged. We were led by our press to believe that he was a 'Western journalist'.

"To further exascerbate the situation, a Mossad sayanin [a member of the Jewish community who helps out Mossad agents] sent documents to ABC television with a story from a 'reliable' Middle Eastern source telling of a plant Saddam had for the manufacturing of uranium - to suggest that he was developing nuclear capability.

Through the bullet-riddled body of Gerald Bull [assassinated by the Mossad], the eyes of the world would be made to focus on his work: the Iraqi giant gun project called Babylon. The timing had to be right, though; Bull's well-publicized demise had to come right after an act of terror by the regime in Baghdad, an act that could not be mistaken for an accident or a provocation. The hanging of the Observer 'reporter' on March 15 was such an act."

"In the following weeks, more and more 'discoveries' were made regarding the big gun and other elements of the Saddam war machine. The Mossad had all but saturated the intelligence field with information regarding the evil intentions of 'Saddam the Terrible', banking on the fact that before long, he'd have enough rope to hang himself.... The Mossad leaders know that if they could make Saddam appear bad enough and a threat to the Gulf oil supply, of which he'd been the protector up to that point, then the United States and its allies would not let him get away with anything, but would take measures that would all but eliminate his army and his weapons potential, especially if they were led to believe that this might just be their last chance before he went nuclear."

It worked, the Americans were fooled. And approximately SIX-HUNDRED Americans died in the conflict - a fact which has been effectively down-played by the media.

•The Attempted Assassination of George Bush

And what happened when an American President tried to stop the Jewish tail from wagging the American dog?

"Against the wishes of the angry Jewish community, George Herbert Bush had put a freeze on all loan guarantees to Israel, which were to come to a total of ten billion dollars over the next five years.... Upon making that decision, the president was instantly placed on the blacklist of every Jewish organization in the United States, and regarded as the greatest enemy of the state of Israel.... A certain right-wing clique in the Mossad picked the Madrid peace talks as its staging ground.... Three Palestinian extremists were taken by [an assassination] unit from their hiding place in Beirut. It was clear from the start that the assassination would be blamed on the Palestinians - perhaps ending once and for all their irritating resistance and making them the people most hated by Americans."

It is ironic that the result of this assassination attempt was yet another strike against Iraq.

•Testing of Biological Weapons, Infectious Diseases on Palestinians and Blacks

Finally, we must point out the Mossad involvement with the testing of biological weapons on Palestinians and Blacks. The assassination of an American President is a bad thing; but these biological weapons are being readied to be unleashed on Europe if any armies attempt to re-conquer Palestine. In many ways, we are reminded of certain prophecies in the book of revelations, about Armies gathering against "the holy land" and the unleashing of various nightmarish plagues and earthquakes upon mankind. But this is a known reality, and anyone concerned about the future of the world should demand that Israel's biological "doomsday" weapons be eliminated.

"[the Nes Ziyyona facility was] an ABC warfare laboratory - ABC standing for atomic, bacteriological, and chemical. It was where our top epidemiological scientists were developing various doomsday machines.... The Palestinian infiltrators came in handy in this regard. As human guinea pigs, they could [be used to] make sure the weapons the scientists were developing worked properly and could verify how fast they worked and make them even more efficient."

Interesting enough, considering the strange prevalence of AIDS in Africa, we discover that the Mossad also tested infectious diseases on blacks in Soweto Africa in 1986.

[radio relay]

OK, so you don't like the Israelis. What else is your point?

It's no secret that the Israelis are not always the most reliable, and their military doesn't hold the U.S. military in very high respect. However, the U.S. has not exactly made the best decisions either.

Look at what the U.S. did after the barracks bombing. We stuck our tails between our legs and ran like scared pups. You think that this didn't embolden the stinking islamic arab terrorists, and put Israel in a precarious position?

Also, the Israelis endured being hit by numerous rockets from Iraq during the first Gulf war, but at the request of the U.S., did nothing to retaliate

The Israelis aren't perfect allies, but they sure as hell are better friends to the U.S. than any of the other countries in the Middle East, and the world, for that matter.

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by radio relay
OK, so you don't like the Israelis. What else is your point?

It's no secret that the Israelis are not always the most reliable, and their military doesn't hold the U.S. military in very high respect. However, the U.S. has not exactly made the best decisions either.

Look at what the U.S. did after the barracks bombing. We stuck our tails between our legs and ran like scared pups. You think that this didn't embolden the stinking islamic arab terrorists, and put Israel in a precarious position?

Also, the Israelis endured being hit by numerous rockets from Iraq during the first Gulf war, but at the request of the U.S., did nothing to retaliate

The Israelis aren't perfect allies, but they sure as hell are better friends to the U.S. than any of the other countries in the Middle East, and the world, for that matter.

For the record, Radio, Allies don't fire on American ships, and then come in and rake the decks with Machine gun fire to kill all the witnesses, after they have just bombed the ship with bombs made in the USA, delivered on jets that were made in the USA, and shot cannon fire with rounds made in the USA, and, not to mention hitting the ship with five torpedoes made in the USA.

What you do not know is that the Israelis were going onto that ship with Commandoes from helicopters to finish off the job, but the Sailors and Marines on the ship were prepared to repel boarders, and the copters turned and went back to Israel. They were going to murder every last soul on that ship to keep their secret! What kind of an Ally is that?

The truth is that the Israelis would fall as easy as anyone else to the USA. They have a limited logistics, and they could not long match the USA in fire power, or in might, for very long! The difference is, we are not murderers! And, maybe, for that reason alone, they would laugh at us, but you can bet your last shekel, if the USA was coming to get them, they would respect the US Military in quick order, and all the IDF would die, and the Massad would turn coats to our side against their own people!

They started off with a terrorist campaign in the Palestine Region. They blew up innocent families of British Soldiers in the King David Hotel. They most certainly are terrorist! And, their leaders were Terrorists as well! It is just that our Congress makes a lot of money off of these zealots!

If you are not Jewish in Israel, you have no rights. It is similar to the USA before the 1960s with the Blacks. They are a socialist country that has no use for democracy. They are a religious theocracy, just like Osama bin Laden would install in the Central and Middle East! But, they are our allies!

Mark my words, Israel's time will come, and it will come at the hands of the Americans, and it will come with not much more effort than it took us to knock out any other nation! We have a lot of pay-back coming to us, but in the mean time, they are our (Cough) Ally!

I am not anti-Jew by any stretch of the imagination, but I am anti-Zealot. Hell! The Tonkin Resolution was fostered by much less than what was done by Israel to us! It is all politics that the State of Israel is still standing, thanks to President Johnson and the Democrat Congress of the USA in the 1960's! They did not go after Israel for what they did to the Liberty, and they stabbed us in the back in South Vietnam! It is all Democrat Politics! I am ashamed of them!

If you bring up Beirut, than you must know that our only alternative was to turn against the total of the factions there, including the Israelis and the UN, and the President was not willing to do that! We had a military that was in ruins since the end of the Vietnam war, because of Congress, and this made it a no win situation! It was a good move to just get the hell out of there, Congress would never have allowed the President to strike back at all the forces in the area!

As far as putting Israel in a situation, if they would have told us of the intelligence they had, maybe those men would not be dead now! Israel did not tell us, because they wanted us involved in the area, they just did not know that so many would die in the attack! And, they did not figure on the US President pulling his troops from the area! The Israelis blew it!

[Nagalfar]

radio relay, when it comes to allies of America.. there is NONE better than the Aussies.. they have been a part of every war/police action/skirmish we have ever sent a American to fight it, the Aussies have always been at Americas side, to allow someone else who does not deserve that honor, does a great disservice to those who have.. so when it comes to friends of America, you should know who they are if you are going to reference them.. all I am saying is give them the honor they have fought and died for..

[Joseph P Carey]

Originally posted by Nagalfar
radio relay, when it comes to allies of America.. there is NONE better than the Aussies.. they have been a part of every war/police action/skirmish we have ever sent a American to fight it, the Aussies have always been at Americas side, to allow someone else who does not deserve that honor, does a great disservice to those who have.. so when it comes to friends of America, you should know who they are if you are going to reference them.. all I am saying is give them the honor they have fought and died for..

I agree, no greater friend in war does the US have than the People of Downunder! No worst enemy does the USA have than our ally in Israel!

I have never heard of an Australian Spy in our Pentagon stealing our secrets, and I have never seen where an Australian Combat Team has struck a US Ship of War and gunned down the American Crew with machine gun fire as they were coming on to the decks to fight fires and remover the wounded from harms way, and never have I seen the Australians shoot up life boats being loaded with wounded Sailors and Marines, but perhaps I have an entirely different idea of what an ally is.

It is obvious that there were Jews amongst the dead US Sailors and Marines on board the Liberty, because they were all Americans, so don't give me that crap about hating Jews. I do not! I only hate enemies of the USA!