The Punks in our Public Schools

[hillbilly_0311]

several points here i want to make. mostly just opinion, but nonetheless:
1. it seems to me that our school systems are way too top-heavy with "administration" personnel, that have absolutely nothing to do with the actual teaching of the kids. i realize that some of this is forced on the school systems by government regulations and bureacracy, as well as the mountains of red-tape and documentation, but the end result is, after paying these people their salaries, some of which are easily into six figures, there is no money left to hire good, qualified teachers, let alone build new schools. so, you end up with serious overcrowding of the schools, schools themselves that are at best, barely adequate, and young, inexperienced kids with fresh, "ink still wet", teaching certificates, that spend their day just trying to survive the madness and anarchy of the school day, and get home in one piece. disciplining the punks, or even trying to actually teach a kid something, is way down on their list of priorities, several spaces below "survival".
2. then, you have the kids that have a single parent, that is probably working 2 jobs just trying to keep a roof over their head, with no time left for parenting, teaching the child any sort of moral value system, or even checking to see if the child is actually going to school, or just spending the day "hangin'" with their friends.
3. then, you have the parents that come from the "no-discipline" generation, that dont believe in spanking, or any other discipline, for fear of hurting "little johnny's" self-esteem. these are the same people that dont want the teachers to use red ink when putting the big "F" on the kids test results and homework, for fear of putting "undue stress" on the child. they also adhere to the philosophy of allowing the child their "space", letting them express themselves artistically, (sometimes by spray-painting graffiti, defacing property paid for by us, the taxpayers, or many other forms of vandalism), and by allowing them to use disrespectful, demeaning, or some other form of bad language, to express themselves. and, when the kid resorts to violence, bullying, or some other physical form of abuse to "express" themselves, these people look the other way for fear of violating the child's "civil liberties".
4. then, you have the "high society" types, the ones that live in the million dollar homes with the 75,000 dollar automobiles in the driveway. the parents are busy with their professional careers and believe that, by giving little johnny every material thing he could possibly want, and by letting him have his little pool parties, complete with designer drugs and alcohol, they are doing an outstanding job of child-rearing. "and, no!, little johnny would never be involved with sexually abusing anyone, or bullying anyone, or being disrespectful to anyone. you must have little johnny confused with those "unsavory" types, that come from the other side of the tracks, and from those "broken" homes. little johnny would never do anything like that! why, we give him everything he could possibly want, and we know we raised him right!"
of course, i do agree that discipline is not primarily
the responsibility of the teachers. i do believe that it must begin at home, at an early age. but, the teaching system has to take responsibility for being an extension of the values taught at home. of course, when there are no values taught at home, it would be unfair to expect teachers to be the "tactical officers" when these hoodlums try to take over. you cant start disciplining these kids after they've begun committing these criminal acts. they're not much more than predatory animals by the time they get to that point.

S/F
hillbilly

[CHOPPER7199]

Right on the mark Hillbilly, I drove schoolbus for extra cash and that was a chore. Now they have at places, monators,cameras and radios to try and keep order. In my day I pulled over on side of the road with flashers on and stayed there till they got under control. I felt bad for the good kids that had duties when they got home. I got paid by the run not the time, so it was my time trying to get things in order. I went so far as brought the bus back to the barn with the kids on it and told the boss to have fun at one point. Needless to say the fall out I got from that.

[CHOPPER7199]

Need to continue, as the boss called the school and told the Superintendent what had happened and well the parents an other story. I was put on the trouble runs to square them away. lol. Had a high school kid that said hes dad wanted to get me. lmao. I told him where I lived and phone number and would welcome dad to a good conversation. Not to worry about threats from anyone as it seems this is the kind of kids that need help. The parents as you said, don,t listen or don,t want to hear it. The wife and I raised 4, 3gals and a son. They knew respect from the word go, plus manners, values and morals. Must have been a Corp. thing. Not to mention, I was raised with all of the same. S.F.

[Old Marine]

When I was a kid, the only "Rights" I had were given to me by my Father and Mother. If a kid doesn't get disipline at home he will
not have respect for anyone or anything, including himself. The disipline I got did not include spanking or yelling as my father did not believe in it. He believed that when he spoke you moved and that was the law of the land.

[OLE SARG]

Old Marine,
What you've stated is a good philosophy that most kids today lack. I was raised with loving parents but also understood what behavior was right and acceptable. When Dad said jump I didn't even ask how high. The kids today lack respect for the basics of family, respect for their parents. They get no guidance at school because the teachers have their hands tied. Hell, they can't even correct a kid without fear of parents, who instill nothing in the home environment, complaining about them "mistreating little johnny a#%hole". I've even noticed when me and the wife are out in public (restaurants and stores), parents threatening with the old "You are going to have to take a time out" threat.

Apparently, these new child-rearing philosophys are not working and we need to go back to pure old DISCIPLINE!!!!!!!!! Parents need to get back to teaching and implementing the traits of living together (respect, courtesy, etc.) again.

My rant on this subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SEMPER FI,
OLE SARG

[Osotogary]

Old Marine, OLE SARGE, I hear both of you, except in my case both Mom and Dad were the ultimate "decision makers" for any and all matters. (Having twin sons didn't help matters any.)
Discipline at Home (circa 1949-50) Age 4-5
Scenario 1
Something mischievous happens in the house to the total chagrine of Mom.(I don't know how the heck that could happen. LOL.) She becomes highly agitated and mentions that our Dad will hear about it. Dad arrives from work. Mom tells Dad. Dad calls both twins (me and my brother) to a room for a "discussion".He asks both of us who did what and we each point at one another blaming each other. He says, "Fine, since I can't get a straight answer I'll just have to spank both of you." He spanks both of us and we both cry (spanking #1), we cry so much we start to laugh (spanking #2), we laugh so hard we pee in our pants (spanking #3). After the spanking has subsided and there is no more laughter....anywhere, Dad says since we still haven't told him who did what and the fact that he is tired he will give us the boxing gloves and have us settle it amongst ourselves as to who did what. So, in the period of, I'm thinking, one hour total, I have just had my a$$ kicked or spanked four times. Those were the days and you'd better believe that I never messed around in school while I was under my parents care.
Note: The spankings were never vicious or malicious or abusive. There was always a reason given why the spankings happened even though, as my Dad would say, no explainations were necessary because we (my brother and I) already knew what we had done wrong.

[Sgted]

Damn. I was sent to bed with no supper on my Birthday because I disobeyed a parental rule.
My Father stuck to his guns and enforced the rule even on my Birthday.
Later he would bring me up a piece of cake and explain the punishment. His explaination included the fact that he loved me.
I was 8 years old.

In my teens my Father took the keys to my '59 Chevy and my drivers licence for disobeying. The punishment lasted 1 month.

There were no "time outs" and there was no disrespect (on both our parts).
The rules were understood.
The punishment for breaking the rules was understood.

There was no "abuse" counselor to run to or negotiations.
Being confined to one's room did not mean watching a big screen TV or listening to an MP3 player, game boy, computer and there was no A/C.
It was true punishment.

[mrbsox]

Originally posted by Sgted


In my teens my Father took the keys to my '59 Chevy and my drivers licence for disobeying. The punishment lasted 1 month.

There were no "time outs" and there was no disrespect (on both our parts).
The rules were understood.
The punishment for breaking the rules was understood.

At 17 (after the ump-teenth ticket), my Mom took my drivers license, paper at the time, and handed it back in TWO pieces.

About a month later, I got to hand it to the traffic Judge.... yep, in TWO pieces.
Embarrassing as he!!, but he commended my Mother on being involved, and figured I had learned my lesson.

LOVE IS NOT ALWAYS SOFT AND MUSHY !!

[LivinSoFree]

I also think that we have the ACLU to thank for alot of what is going on in this wonderful country of ours. Taking GOD out of our schools, that my friends is the beginning of the breakdown. GOD BLESS OUR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY and take it back from the ACLU.

Respectfully, I don't believe that having "god in the schools" makes a bit of difference. It's not the place of teachers or administrators to teach religion. It's their job to give my kid an education on what he needs to be a productive member of society, not on a belief structure or the finer points of contested morality. That belongs, in the earlier years, at home, and later one, to the child himself (a 16 or 17 year old kid should be able to start making up his own mind about religion, in my opinion).

That does not mean, however, that teachers shouldn't be able to discipline their students or teach them the fundamentals of right and wrong (it's obvious- don't lie, cheat, steal, etc.). How about instead of touchy feeley "Character Education" or "Building a Religious Foundation," we avoid that problem entirely and teach Corps Values.

Honor, Courage, Committment, gents. The rest is details.

[jgorosco]

LivinSoFree

I didn't mean that teachers should teach religion to our kids. What I was getting out was about prayer and pledge of alligiance to our flag and country. Thats what I meant. And I agree with your other points especially CORPS values, but our VALUES are for a special breed. NOT for every swingin' d**K or suzy rotten Cr**ch.

[Sparky1833]

I beleive in one thing, " Its either One Nation under God or bite my ass and leave " Thank you all for the imput here on this topic !

[Osotogary]

Sgted,
I was once told to get my plate, along with my eating utensils, get off my chair and eat under the table with the dog because I had my elbows on the table as I was eating. The explaination was that since I didn't have any manners ..... heck, you'll just have to eat with the dog. Thinking about it, even now, the punishment sure seemed quite unorthodox and severe but on a lighter side I was able to dispose of all the food that I didn't want to eat, especially the spinach, to our Boxer "Lady". How the heck she liked the spinach I'll never know (must have been the bacon bits) and after a short time, when I was told to come and sit with the rest of the civilized folks, I was commended for eating all of my food...even the spinach. LMAO. To this day, however, I do not eat with my elbows fully planted on the dining table and irony of irony...I now like spinach.

[LivinSoFree]

I beleive in one thing, " Its either One Nation under God or bite my ass and leave " Thank you all for the imput here on this topic !

Respectfully Sgt, that's not part of the Constitution I swore an oath to. It's the same reason I'm OK with the anti-war protesters, the crazy ultra-right or ultra-left wingers, etc. I'm fighting to defend their rights as well as those of every other American citizen, and them getting out there and being pushy about their cause, while in one way personally distasteful, is to me actually the fruits of my labor... In many other countries, those labeled as undesirable or distasteful would be drug off or shot. Let 'em protest, all it means to me is that what I've been doing is worth it, even if they don't get it.

[Wyoming]

Originally posted by LivinSoFree


Respectfully Sgt, that's not part of the Constitution I swore an oath to. It's the same reason I'm OK with the anti-war protesters, the crazy ultra-right or ultra-left wingers, etc. I'm fighting to defend their rights as well as those of every other American citizen, and them getting out there and being pushy about their cause, while in one way personally distasteful, is to me actually the fruits of my labor... In many other countries, those labeled as undesirable or distasteful would be drug off or shot. Let 'em protest, all it means to me is that what I've been doing is worth it, even if they don't get it.

Each person has their opinion.

Check the profiles, the Vietnam Vets don't all think the same way as you do.

Punks like this need an ass whipping, and it should have taken place years ago, at home, and Jane Fonda can still rear up and kiss my rebel ass!!

[LivinSoFree]

Punks like this need an ass whipping, and it should have taken place years ago, at home, and Jane Fonda can still rear up and kiss my rebel ass!!

I'll drink to that... my tolerance only goes so far.