Marine recruit who drowned at boot camp

[kungfu_rider]

I haven't seen any threads that discuss about this matter, so I guess I'll start one.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6988854

In the link, it says...

"Marines probe boot camp drowning
Drill instructor caught on tape striking 19-year-old

By Jim Miklaszewski
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 7:39 p.m. ET Feb. 17, 2005


An autopsy revealed 19-year-old Jason Tharp drowned last week during water survival training at the Marine Corps boot camp at Parris Island, S.C.

Video shot on Feb. 7, the day before Tharp's death, by NBC affiliate WIS-TV in Columbia, S.C., shows Tharp, visibly shaken and almost terrified, taking a forearm shot from a Marine drill instructor.

In the Marines only five weeks, Tharp had written seven letters home telling his family he wanted out. His father, John Tharp, claims Jason had been singled out by drill instructors because he couldn't keep up with the rigorous basic training.

"I don’t know how they could treat my son the way we saw on that video," says Tharp. "He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything anybody asked him."

During last week's training, Tharp, seen on the WIS-TV video, at first refused to get into the water.

"He's just afraid because he is not able to do the swim correctly right now, and he just wants to leave and go home," said Staff Sgt. Anthony Davis on the Feb. 7 videotape.

After 20 minutes of trying to coax Tharp into the pool, the drill instructor turned physical in apparent violation of Marine Corps regulations — striking Tharp across the chest.

"That right there, where this Marine grabs the recruit, this is not how you treat recruits," said Eugene Fidell, the president of the National Institute of Military Justice, when NBC News showed him the video. "I mean, this is a wrongful touching. Basically, it's an assault."

Marine Corps officials say Tharp voluntarily entered the pool the next day, where he drowned during a 25-meter swim. Officials also say there's no early evidence of any misconduct by Marine instructors at the time Jason drowned, but the conduct caught on camera the day before raises questions about exactly what happened in that pool.

Jason's father is considering a wrongful-death lawsuit against the Marines.

"We just want justice for Jason," says Tharp. "To get some kind of bill passed to where this won't happen to another family."

The Navy and Marines are investigating Jason's death and the conduct of the drill instructors who were supposed to protect him."

[kungfu_rider]

I did my part of watching Full Metal Jacket and I'm pretty much ready to be slapped and gutted by the drill instructor. But I just can't help but feel sorry for the guy. He must've been so scared. I pray that he's in God's hand now and that his family finds peace and justice.

This news has definately put a dent in the reputation of the Marine Corp. The problem is that potential recruits need to do more personal research on the branch they're joining rather than just getting the info from their recruiter. They need to know what to expect at boot camp, especially for the Marine Corp. Obviously this lad didn't do this. But I just can't help but feeling bad for him.

What do you all think?

[Matt Starbuck]

I saw some guys in bootcamp that were so lost that you almost felt sorry for them. I think everyone had the "deer in the headlights" look at first. If you didn't catch on to instructions fast things were going to get ugly real quick. Mostly, you were glad it wasn't you getting the special attention. In bootcamp when one person screws up everyone pays! If you screw up enough the whole platoon will want to beat the crap out of you.

This is a real sensitive issue. Boot camp is tough, not everyone can make it. The kid didn't deserve to die and it will be investigated. The system is such that recruiters put in everyone they can and the drill instuctors have to try and make Marines out of them. It's not a perfect world, and it isn't a dent in the reputation of the Marine corps. Don't let the lawyers and the media make this into something it's not. It was an exception to the rule not the norm.

[hrscowboy]

again the media is allowed to be somewhere where they have no business being. What in the hell has this world come too when we have to have press running around our bases seeing what kind of training is going on.. or what type of war are we fighting and are we fighting the war by guidelines when the enemy doesnt... Its time for our Commandant to say NO PRESS on any Marine Corp Base unless he authorizes it and NO press in any training areas what so ever...

[Sgted]

The whole idea of challenging a young man to do the very best he can, to find the strength inside himself to complete, as best he can, any task put before him is what turns out Marines.
If the DI can get that man to dig out the determination to do his best, to find the confidence within himself to succeed at any given task then the DI has done his job.
Most all of us have the ability, we just lack the confidence or determination.
We all know what methods are used by the DI to get us to do our best.
Whom amongst us were impacted negitively by our treatment and training in boot camp ?. I thing the majority of us can honestly say that it made us better men whether we became lifers or got out after a few years.

BTW......I also want the media O U T.
The American public wants reality only when it's attached to entertainment value in their boring lives.
Decorating.
Court drama of frivilous lawsuites.
Extreme anything.
Stupid people doing stupid things.

True reality like flag draped caskets they don't want to see.

[jinelson]

Right out the gate I say that the media has no business filming Marine training in boot camp. Not that there is anything wrong with it but I know how the media takes things out of context to provide fodder for the mad moms against everything.

Secondly water surival training can be terrifying to the non swimmer and they never should have been put in that position in the first place. We have all been there, think back do yo remember the terrified looks on the faces of those young non swimmers. Dont you think that it could have been avoided by required third party certification as a qualified swimmer prior to acceptance at MEP's? Just my two cents, this is a sad situation all the way around. May recruit private Jason Tharp rest in peace.

[mrbsox]

MARINE !!

By the nature of it's name, WATER is included.

The recruiter should have done a better job of steering this 'little Johnny' away.
Maybe the Drill Instructors should have let 'little Johnny' out before he got that far.
Maybe the Drill Instructors were DOIN THEIR Fkn JOB, by MAKING a MARINE out of this boy.

Boot Camp is NOT the place for the 'timid' to graduate from.

Wonder what this 'boy' may have done had he got to the range, and got his hands on some live ammo ??

I'm sorry for the family. But...
The Corps best interest should prevail, or it will become like Army Basic Training.

footnote;
saw an article earlier where the army basic training had ended manditory bayonet training in the early 70's, as being 'obsolete' in the high tech warefare of the future.

[barryjh]

if you want in the club, you have to pay the dues

[arnoldyG/2/5]

Drill Instructors train Marines not f**cking girl scouts. Get the media out and let these dedicated professionals continue to produce the world's finest fighting force!!!!!!!

[LDO Capt]

After viewing the video footage, and reading the article it is obvious that the young man did not belong at Recruit Training. Lets face it, the Corps is NOT for everyone. The missions (another word for quotas) that are placed on our Recruiter's and Drill Instructor's are where the problem starts and in my opinion need to be fixed. I'm not saying that the Drill Instructor should have struck the Recruit but put yourself into the Platoon Commander, Platoon Sergeant, Squad Leader, or Fire Team leader's position when a Marine falls through the cracks, graduates, and checks into his first unit, on a combat patrol, and a river (or any body of water) needs to be crossed. He is jeopardizing the entire unit. The title of Marine is Earned, not given. We cannot keep qualifing the unqualified just to make recruiting and retention goals.

[mrbsox]

Hand salute;

Welcome aboard, Sir.

Ready two.

[al20852]

The DI is as much a victim in this as the recruit. He will certainly suffer and be made an example of. We have all been in the situation where a little motivation was necessary, and most of the time the person motivated succeeds and is happy someone pushed him to go beyond what he thought were his limits. That is the job of a DI. He has to make his poolees do things he never dreamed were possible in civilian life.

[Old Marine]

If this kid hadn't drowned in water survival, he might have been killed when he got to the sand box. The problem is when he got to the sand box he might take some good Marines with him. Sounds like he was a Gomer all the way around. Rest in peace young man.

[jryanjack]

Agree LDO, quotas are good for everyone else, but the Corps should not lower itself to that level. While its tragic, this recurit most likely should not have been there. As someone has already posted, the title Marine, is earned not given, quota's be damned!

[lprkn]

My two cents.

I watched the video, and it appeared to me that the reason that the recruit was struck was that he came within an arm's distance of the drill instructor. That was a cardianl rule at boot camp when I was there. That would have happened to any recruit that didn't say, "By your leave, sir." Or something to that effect.

There was no reason that he needed to die. From personal experience, I know that those swim tank Drill Instructors are a little more "intense". They also have to watch large groups of recruits swim or try to swim, day in and day out. From personal experience, I had a buddy at boot camp who blacked out in the pool, and would have sunk to the bottom, if a fellow recruit next to him hadn't grabbed him. Who knows how long he would've been down there? I'm not criticizing the swim tank instructors, but they can't let their guard down even for a second, or something like this happens.

But how long does it take to drown completely? A couple of minutes at least.