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  1. #16
    Originally posted by brettt
    I am curious and want to learn as much as possible before i get out in FMF. How do the NCO's lead? Are they that much different from the Officer's leadership, or is there more respect soley because they are enlisted? What makes the enlisted side "more fun?"

    Ductus Exemplo
    Brett

    ok, heres MY stab at it. the lower ranks tend to think more of Senior NCO's than 2nd Lts at any rate for ONE reason. Just think about it. who would YOU rather listen to? a man or woman with 10-20 years or REAL expierience, or a 23-25 year old kid who just got out of school, and thinks everything is done by the book?

    In my time I served under 6 different platoon commanders. 3 2nd Lts, 2 1st Lts, and 1 Cpt.

    I'll be honest here, 2 of the three 2nd Lts got no respect, cause it all had to be THIER way, and thier way NOW! this was in direct conflict usually of the SOPs of the unit. they wanted to change EVERYTHING, and it seemed to us, just so they could leave thier mark on thier platoon.

    Want the advice of a lowly Cpl if you are gonna be a brand new 2nd lt in an infantry unit? In public, YOU and ONLY you are in charge. Behind closed doors? listen to what your platoon Sgt has to say. They have been there and done it, and they generally know the minds of the troops.

    as far as what makes the enlisted side more fun?

    well, I said it before, you have more opportunity for making closer and more friends, and honestly, you are not watched NEARLY as closley as officers are. Just my .02


  2. #17
    Registered User Free Member Pel's Avatar
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    After reading all of those posts, and from my own experience, I still stick with what I said or I wouldnt have said it. When I first wrote it I was looking at it with the frame of mind of, Both are Marines, Both have earned it. But than after reading the post by the Lt. let me change it to I would rather be enlisted anyday. "And here is the deal, since you obviously dont have any idea what you are talking about," Maybe that was what I was talking about. Good day, Sir.

    Pel


  3. #18
    There in lies the problem (not trying to go against what you said mrbsox because your points are extremely valid) but with orders, whether you like the order or not, should become your own as it goes down the chain. In the flag pole example, the NCO should say things the first way that mrbsox stated. This makes the order the NCO's as well. The LT may be following orders from above, but he makes the order his. When you issue orders, you cannot say its someone elses order because that shifts the chain of command around you. This is also my two cents.



    Semper Fidelis,


    LT


  4. #19
    Originally posted by Pel
    After reading all of those posts, and from my own experience, I still stick with what I said or I wouldnt have said it. When I first wrote it I was looking at it with the frame of mind of, Both are Marines, Both have earned it. But than after reading the post by the Lt. let me change it to I would rather be enlisted anyday. "And here is the deal, since you obviously dont have any idea what you are talking about," Maybe that was what I was talking about. Good day, Sir.

    Pel
    Once again your attitude is horrible. My entire family have been enlisted Marines (3 uncles, my father, my grandfather, and my wifes grandfather). Of these both of my grandfathers fought in the pacific and my uncles and father were in Nam. I do believe that I may know a little bit more than you on this subject. Your cockiness will diminish at boot camp I am confident of that. I am not blasting you for being enlisted or wanting to do so. There is nothing more admirable than being an enlisted Marine. I wanted to be an Officer in order to help enlisted Marines. My relatives have told me many stories of bad things that they experienced with their Officers. So although I do not have experience, I do know a couple of things about how the Corps works.


    Ductus Exemplo,



    LT


  5. #20
    yellowwing
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    ...but he makes the order his. When you issue orders, you cannot say its someone elses order because that shifts the chain of command around you.
    I like that, sir! Taking responsibilty. Being accoutantable. Being a Leader, whether Officer or Enlisted.


  6. #21
    Marine Free Member mrbsox's Avatar
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    Sir,

    Thank you for the insight. I had not looked at it that perhaps the Lt. was also following orders, probably due the the reality that it doesn't matter. An order is an order, no matter where it started up the chain.
    And as the Lt. said, the order becomes YOUR order. To follow to the best of your ability.

    My main focus on the example, to poolees and young Marines, is that YOUR presence, YOUR example, YOUR direction, will make all the difference in your men.
    Do they just get the job done, so they can be done, or does completing the 'mission' strengthen the team, strengthen the chain of command.

    The choice is YOURs to make, daily. With every order you receive, and issue, with every decision, you will be LEADING a portion of the greatest fighting force in the world today. Will you be leading them down the path of success, or just the path of completion.

    Semper Fi


  7. #22
    mrbsox

    I printed that out and hung it on my office wall. I learn from Marines everyday.....if I am anything of a leader, hopefully they will learn something from me as well. Thank you for your insight.



    Ductus Exemplo,



    LT


  8. #23
    Sure there are differences between emlisted and officer, certainly in the training that is required. But bottom line both have earnesd the titme Marine, and each knows that the other went through the toughest training available to earn that title. Noone else in the world can call themselves that. To me the bottom line always has been that every Marine, officer or enlisted, understands that there is a chain of command from General on down. No miitary organization can function without one.

    Sure the NCOs are the backbone of the Corps. No doubt about it. But those same NCOs are the first to tell their troops that they should stop griping and understand that there is a chain of command and that that is the essence of a military system.

    As for those questioning officer training, when I went thorugh it was 10 weeks OCS and the six months Basic School. Basic school is a little shorter now. But bottom line is that any Marine ofcier has proven him or herself in situations that most Americans could not comprehend or succeed at.


  9. #24
    Registered User Free Member chezzplayr05's Avatar
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    The most well respected officer I knew personally was a Mustang.


  10. #25
    Marine Free Member troop901's Avatar
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    Guess I will open my big mouth on this

    1st, a poolee has not earned the title and so can not state what they think about Marine officer, fer a boot louie ya seem to have a perspective as to what yer Marines want and need Koble.
    , I had 5 Lt's. when I was in, we only respected 2 of em, cause they listened to us when they knew what we was talkin bout was right. We called one of our Lt's gungy, not out of hate, but out of respect, we would have followed that man anywhere when a Marine officer sheds his butter bar and puts on da silver, there seems to be a bit more respect given, cause then we know ya got some time in, its da same thing on da enlisted side, a boot, no respect till ya earn it, same thing when a enlisted looks at a officer.
    own up to da order, we know it came from above, but dont let us know you know. It works better if we have a officer in front of us who we can blame fer it.
    , have fun and listen to yer NCO's Koble, when yer Marines know ya listen then they know yer a leader. Watch Band of Brothers, I know its army, but that is one hell of a learnin tool for officers and enlisted.


  11. #26
    My goal is to be a Marine Officer one day - whats The Basic School like?

    What do you learn for the duration of the 6 months?


  12. #27
    Originally posted by vfm
    My Advice Talk to a Warrant Officer.
    SEMPER FI!!!
    vfm
    vfm.............you took the words right out of my mouth...?
    If memory serves my correctly.........didn't we used to refer to them as mustangs....???????????

    After reading all of the posts up to this point. I'll try and make a final comment on this topic...

    Try to think of NCO's and SNCO's as Marines who sometimes need to wear the covers of ambassadors.......The reason I chose that term is quite simple really. hears the short Definition for ambassador........." those sent on a diplomatic mission "..

    I'd say usually in the Corps,when sent on a mission no matter how big or small...........You'll find yourself under orders.

    As an E4 and lower. at one time...!!! I was told you always followed...........LAST order 1st.........and it really didn't matter if that order came from a General or a new-bee 2nd louie... It still was an order.

    RESPECT...........well that might be another topic completly..!!!
    If I had little or no respect for the officer............I'd simply address them by their rank. ie............Lt Smith.... Vs... Lt or even 2nd Lt.
    without mentioning their last name at all.

    See in the Corps we do have to respect their rank.but we do not have to respect them personally... But that also holds true when refering to NCO's SNCO's Vs enlisted.......pvt's,lcpl's..

    In my opinion........... i've never met a more rounded officer then a W grade officer. I've been away from Marine life so long......Perhaps they no longer have them?????????
    They used to be W1's thru W4's I do believe...????
    Most were enlisted who went over, ( MUSTANGS' ).. Some of the most respected/feared officers in the military. Even by higher ranking officers usually. WHY...? because they were all hard-*sses?............no..!! I simply feel it was they " BEEN THERE,DONE THAT "...!!

    Semper-Fi

    God Bless the Corps.


  13. #28
    Out of all these good quotes, this is the one I agree with the most.


  14. #29
    Marine Free Member sparkie's Avatar
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    I once sat on a four holer with a full bird. Then, I realized we were all Marines. He was even nice to me. Imagine,,, shootin the s**t with a bird.;]


  15. #30
    Marine Free Member sparkie's Avatar
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    Another note; Going back to WESPAC, I rode a seat from Frisco to Hawaii next to a Col. Parrish. He was the man when I did boot. Anyone remember him? Hell of an officer, we talked the whole ride. Yes I do respect officers.


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