Thank God...

[Underleft]

I could care less if god was taken out of the government. I have no problem with god being in or out. I do however see the wisdom in taking it out. making kids say "one nation under god" in the pledge without a choice is almost making them believe in god. Last thing. Telling people to god bless america or get out is just the same as the ACLU telling you to take it out. So your going to tell a Corporal of the United States Marine Corps to get out because he doesn't necessarily believe in god? So because of my believes I can't use my skills and abilities to serve the country that I too live in. I would have to say that your just like the ACLU. You think your right...so do they. how do you know which one truley is? You can't, and there will never be a way to decide. you just worship the way you want. What is taking god out of the government really gonna do to your religion?

[1recon]

Originally posted by HardJedi
The U.S. Constitution


The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.

If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the
Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."



so where is this founded on god part?

HardJedi,
The constitution may not have said any thing about the coutry being founded on God, but it is not the document that needed to. The Constitution is the laws of the country. The Declaration of Independence on the other hand is the document that founded the United States of America and God is found in the first sentence.

[1recon]

Any one who says God Bless America or get out is just as bad as the ACLU. But I don't think it is right to take God out of our Pledge, or our government. It is not saying that everyone has to believe in God. Separation of church and state isn't even in the bill of rights.

[yellowwing]

The young lad has a valid point. "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the Rupublic for which its Stands, one Nation Under God, with Liberty and Justice for al!"

I can get behind that!

[Catz1611]

Originally posted by Amanda
looks like we have a difference of opinion... Maybe they were not "Christians" But that does not change the fact that the nation was founded on Christian ideals...

I am not saying that since it was founded on these principles that christianity should be forced on everyone. I believe that our nation should not remove what was obviously had a great deal to do with building it...it is part of our history...if a person walks past a statue of the ten commandments in a governmet building, and they dont like it...well then just walk by it, its not going to jump out at you and start hitting you with a bible...i am tired of the minority of people whining and complaining because it offends them or they are uncomfortable. Gosh darn it they are free to worship as they will, get some thicker skin and stop crying.

okay i'm done! : )

Amanda, You GO GIRL!
I've enjoyed reading your posts! You are 100% right..

[HardJedi]

the DECLARATION founded the united states? I hardly think so. it was a document declaring intent to seperate ourelves from great britain. without LAWS there IS no country.



hmnnn you know whats REALLY funny? re-read your bible. there is only ONE thing listed as the ten commandmants. know what it is?

it's not what you think. trust me.

( this is gonna take a bit., but its the only plae in the bible that lists ANYTHING speciffically called the TEN COMMANDMENTS) )

And the lord said unto moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first; and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which though brakest....

Take heed to thyself, lest though make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land wither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

For ye shall destroy their altars, break thier images, and cut down thier groves:

For though shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Lest though make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go whoring after thier gods, and so sacrifice unto thier gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifices.


I can continue with the rest of the ONLY THING IN THE BIBLE named " the ten commandments if you like, or you can just pick up the dang bible and read for yourself

Exodus 34:1. 12-28

numbers 31 is ALSO of interest as is Judges 19

[TRLewis]

The thing that amazes me so much is how people are unwilling to bargain. I am not backing the ACLU for the SECOND ****ING TIME I have to say it.

But since we are in this hypothetical situation getting rid of everything that is ungod like, we must get rid of the days of the week since they are based on pagan gods.

[1recon]

HardJedi, do you know your history? The constitution was not the first laws of the country. The first laws of the country were actually the Mayflower Compact which was written in 1620. After the War for Independence was started when we wrote the Declaration of Independence, which we needed to let the King know our intent, the colonists realized they needed to have a more central government to keep control. The second continental congress then wrote the Articles of confederation and it was finished in 1777. The colonies then had to ratify it for it to truely become law. 13 coloneis had signed it by 1781 when it went into effect. However the articles were too loose and there was fear of anarchy after Shays rebelion. There was then then Consititutional convention were they tried to come up with better laws where they came up with the conn. compromise, the Virginia plan,and the New Jersey plan. By Sept 17 1787 there were 39 signatures on the Constitution and within 9 months it was ratified by 9 states, which according to article 7 was sufficient for it to become the law. So HardJedi, there were laws long before the constitution and the Declaration was the founding document because without that document we would not have been recognized as a country by other countries, we would have been looked at as traitors and rebels.

[1recon]

Oh yeah you should read the fedralist papers too.

[yellowwing]

Ben Franklin and Tom Jefferson really like they way the Iroqouis had set up their Confederation.

One obcsure part was the duties of the War Chief. When the head negitiator was talking to new tribe, he would ask them extactly three times, "There can be peace amongst us!"

If the other negotiator refused after a third time, it was up to the War Chief to leap forward and kill him! Negitiations over. Get Some!

[HardJedi]

do i know my history? yes indeed I do. ( being a history major and all)


I said that there is no NATION without laws. Yes there were LAWS on this continent LONG before there was ever a united states of america. ( long before Christians, or white people at all for that matter, so does that mean our country was founded on indian beliefs?)

The only thing I meant was that there are no PREDOMINATLEY christian ideas in the constitution, and that most of the people who WROTE that darn thing, and thus decided early United states policies, where not themselves practicing christians.

You wanna talk about History? Fine, most of the moral and ethical codes of christianity( as well as the myths it claims) can be found in much OLDER texts and stories, like the code of Hammarabi for example . ( not sure I spelled that right)

By the way, do you REALISE how silly an argument you made? You state, quite CLEARLY that the declaration of independence was what FOUNDED this country, then you go on to state that the Mayflower Compact of 1620 wheere the first laws of this COUNTRY. Lets see, declaration estabilishes this COUNTRY in 1776, yet somehow in 1620, the mayflower compact where this COUNTRIES first laws? how's that work? The countries LAWS existed BEFORE the country itself?

[yellowwing]

Either way, the end result of after 230 years is not bad at all. We have all raised out right hands and sworn to Defend This Country, warts and all.

[HardJedi]

point taken yellowing, I am done with this one.