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  1. #1

    Cool Be Most Careful in Judging This Marine

    11-17-2004

    Be Most Careful in Judging This Marine



    By Raymond Perry



    The current media blitz on the shooting of an injured Iraqi insurgent by a Marine in Fallujah last Saturday highlights the current inability of the news media today to provide informed and accurate background to a story (for example, see “Military Investigates Shooting of Wounded Insurgent,” CNN.com, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 2004). It is of vast importance that in the initial coverage of a story of this kind that the media intelligently and accurately place this story in full context, but so far, this has not occurred.



    First the Geneva Conventions impose limits on warfare to reduce unnecessary suffering and protect combatants and noncombatants alike. These conventions were written to constrain organized armed forces that are subservient to a sovereign and will obey organized laws.



    In the present case in Iraq, the insurgents not only are not subservient to a sovereign but have made it eminently clear that they will not abide by any set of laws. They have chosen to exercise a level of inhumanity unseen since the Mongolian Hordes overran much of the known world. Just consider their kidnapping and likely murder of Iraqi civilian aid worker Margaret Hassan.



    As an organized and humane nation, the United States nevertheless holds itself to these standards regardless of the opponent’s adherence or lack of it. This is not because of any threat of penalty of international law but because of what we think about ourselves as a free and courageous nation.



    Second, the Geneva Conventions proscribe further destructive or injurious actions by individuals or formations when an opponent has become hors de combat. The alleged killing of an injured and apparently incapable insurgent by this one Marine is the crux of the issue.



    What the media has ignored in the hullabaloo over this potentially criminal act and its videotaping is the obligation of the insurgent or the insurgent forces under that same international code.



    The Geneva Conventions impose on those that become hors de combat the obligation to cease all combatant actions. The booby-trapping of insurgents’ bodies to cause injury or death to coalition soldiers is clearly in gross violation of these conventions. Similarly, the secreting of a weapon so that an injured insurgent may “take one more Marine with them” is equally in violation.



    There is an obligation for the fourth estate and human rights organizations such as Amnesty International to understand the full scope of the Geneva Conventions and apply them equally to both sides. That it is enormously easier to tell only one side of the story is no excuse for effectively slanting the story and discredits these organizations.



    Finally, the context in which these Marines or any other member of the armed forces of this nation operate must be effectively communicated. In this case, this Marine – like the other troops in Fallujah – was operating in a combat environment where he and others must make life-or-death decisions in a split-second.



    The Iraqi insurgents, like their counterparts throughout the world, have themselves asserted the right to do whatever inhuman acts that appear to suit their cause. In the case of these young Marines in Fallujah, that means that they booby-trap bodies and conceal weapons for a final attempt to kill.



    The crux of this issue is that if this one Marine, in his heart, saw something that he felt was a threat to him or his team, he was fully justified under the Geneva Conventions in acting as he did. In reviewing his actions, Marine Corps and Central Command officials must search for the full truth of what he was thinking in the minutes or seconds preceding the shooting.



    In my experience, when a criminal acts, he shows certain characteristics. In this kind of case, it would be to isolate a victim followed by the act of demonstrating power over that victim. From what I have seen in the videotape excerpts, these elements were missing. The Marine acted immediately after entering the room and discovering the wounded insurgents.



    Employing the ruse of injury to deceive our soldiers into coming within deadly range of a weapon is a patently illegal act. The insurgents have chosen this tactic and the news media must clearly provide “equal time” in news coverage to confirming the illegality of the insurgents’ choice. The acts taken by those such as this Marine to protect himself and his team must be viewed with this lens and no other.



    When organizations such as Amnesty International do not seek to hold both sides of the conflict fully responsible for their part of adhering to the Geneva Conventions they are effectively advancing the interests of the favored side – the Iraqi insurgents who have already ignored the laws of war. In one recent online news article presenting Amnesty International’s assessment, it is clear that the group has chosen to ignore the responsibility of the insurgents to proscribe continued warlike acts by those that become hors de combat. In ignoring this key element, the human rights activists themselves lose credibility over this issue.



    In a DefenseWatch article in August 2004 (“On the New Front Lines”), I wrote that the ongoing War on Terrorism will be partly won or lost as the sum of many, many small decisions by those Americans serving in law enforcement. In the same vein, our soldiers must feel that their decisions, taken in the split seconds of deadly combat, will be supported and defended. If we do not do this, they will slowly learn to avoid making them. This nation cannot allow such a self-defeating process to begin.



    Since the Iraqi insurgents have chosen to attempt to continue combat actions after injury or even death, under the Geneva Conventions it is irrelevant that this particular insurgent was incapable of further action. By the previous actions of the group, the insurgents have given up those protections.



    Injured insurgents must now be proven, one by one and with great care, to harbor neither intent nor capability of inflicting injury to our soldiers. Until that is proven, our soldiers are fully justified in reacting instinctively to perceived threatening acts of whatever nature.



    Based on a careful reading of press accounts thus far, I believe that this nation must find it in its heart to sustain this young Marine’s decision as it stands, unless officials investigating the incident can confirm a clear case of criminal intent on the Marine’s part.



    It is of equal importance that the news media learn to understand the whole of the issue – in particular the severe choices confronting this one Marine – and fully and intelligently inform the American people of the full context of this tragic incident.



    Finally, it is incumbent on the rest of us to take with a grain of salt – or where appropriate, ignore altogether – those international organizations that do not equably apply the Geneva Conventions to both sides in the bitter Iraqi conflict.



    Lt. Raymond Perry USN (Ret.) is a DefenseWatch Contributing Editor. He can be reached at cos1stlt@yahoo.com. Please send Feedback responses to dwfeedback@yahoo.com.

    http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/c...07813100103942

    Ellie

    IN LOVING MEMORY OF MY LATE HUSBAND, SSgt Roger A. Alfano, USMC
    ONE PROUD MARINE
    1961-1977
    Vietnam 1968/69
    Once a Marine...Always a Marine

    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1204617174

  2. #2

    A lot of words but,

    You can tell Lt. Raymond Perry USN, has never seen action, up close and personal.


    He tries to sugar coat something he knows nothing about, it doesn't help the Marine only makes it look like this USN Lt, is willing to sugar coat something that does not need it.

    This is WAR, plain and simple.

    The insurgent, enemy never signed a Geneva Convention Card, nor do they carry it. They are terrorist, muderous individuals without protection and their willingness to mutilate bodies, kidnap and be-head civilians, attack innocent civilians makes them animals to be dealt with, without mercy, without seeing them as human beings. They are not, they have no soul.

    Kill them all, without reservation.

    The only hesitation a Marine should feel when he pulls the trigger in this type of a combat zone, is the recoil from his weapon.

    Those are my thoughts.


    SF

    Cook


  3. #3
    yep i am with you cook all the way brother....


  4. #4
    Registered User Free Member Kurt Stover's Avatar
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    As I read it, he has more or less said what you have, only in more of a legal-ize format.


  5. #5
    Registered User Free Member jfreas's Avatar
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    Right you are Sparrowhawk. Seems to me some guy named John Kerry did the same thing. We can't let them hang this Marine for doing his job.


  6. #6
    Marine Free Member mrbsox's Avatar
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    Where will it end ?

    Still reflecting on some of the potential fall out on this, IF, big IF, we let this Marine fall under the P.C. agenda of the left.

    Let us suppose, for the sake of argurement, that this Marine is found to have committed a war crime , by shooting an unarmed man.

    My question is, WHERE WILL THAT THINKING END ??
    An enemy combatant's weapon jams. While attempting to clear, he is KIA'd
    Does someone charge THAT shooter with a war crime? His weapon was jammed. He was unble to pose an immediate threat. He should have been taken captive. Lethal force was not justified.

    THAT thinking is BOVINE SEWAGE. But the principle remains the same, if we allow this Marine to be subjected to this
    PCleftwingtreehuggingBSyellowbelledscumsuckingdouc hebag
    type of thinking. This is the time to draw a line in the P.C. sand, and say enough is enough.

    This Marine did his JOB, his DUTY.
    He did it decisevly. He did it without reservation, save that he protect his brothers.

    Semper Fi.

    Terry
    NON- Combat veteran
    U.S.M.C.

    I like to think I would have done the same.


  7. #7
    You would have done the same Terry aint no doubt in my mind just because you never served in combat does not mean you wouldnt have done what this Marine done. I have seen several Marines what i call Vapor lock and had to have someone hollor its you or them and That Marine snapped out of it and done what he was trained to do. This Marine will come out of this alright i think with all the screaming and holloring present and former Marines and every other service member is doing and Mothers of America crawling up our congress and our CIC asses he will be fine.


  8. #8
    WAR CRIME ? THIS MARINE WILL NOT BE CONVICTED OF ANY CRIME. ALL THIS TALK WHILE OUR TROOPS ARE STILL THEIR FIGHTING IS BEYOND BELIEF. WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE MARINES THAT ARE THERE AND THIS IS NOT HELPING THEIR MORALE....I THINK A LITTLE FRIENDLY FIRE IN THE CAMERA MANS AREA MAY BE IN ORDER. KEEP KILLING ANYTHING THAT MOVES AND FORGET ABOUT IT.


  9. #9
    Registered User Free Member Doc Crow's Avatar
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    SAD part is many Navy Ships have JAG's on board to verify that the Rules of engagement were followed. Glad this is not happening in infantry units but it may be the wave of the future


  10. #10
    Registered User Free Member Lock-n-Load's Avatar
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    Angry WTF is Going On in The USMC??

    This combat Marine should never have been removed from his squad/unit; plus, being singled out pending an investigation...if Marine Generals and the CIC [GW BUSH] make this decorated/combat Marine [their scapegoat];then, WTF are we doing in Diaper/head land in the first place??..playing at GI Joe or the local "paintball joint"??..."A Good Raghead is a Dead Raghead" [USMC Survivor's Manual]...Gung-F-Ho...SSGT CHRIS SARNO-USMC FMF


  11. #11
    Guilty Until Proven Innocent
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    November 19, 2004
    by Frank Salvato

    In this era of 24-hour, on-demand access to the news, the American public has grown accustomed to the pre-judgment of individuals at the center of high-profile events. We saw it with the OJ Simpson case. We saw it with the Martha Stewart case. And we saw it with the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. In each, the mainstream media ran with analysis that included information that was relevant, irrelevant, rumor and innuendo - information that was not in context with the situations. The rational mind understands to take this analysis with a grain of salt. Sadly, we are not all gifted with rational minds.

    The newest issue on the media's legal docket revolves around a young Marine in Fallujah. An embedded reporter with the 3 rd Battalion, 1 st Marine Regiment shot footage of what appeared to be a young US Marine shooting a wounded Iraqi lying in a Fallujah mosque. This news footage has created a stir that has started the media's pre-judgment machine.

    Like it or not, the mainstream media has quite a bit of influence in the United States, as well as around the world. Although it didn't have enough influence to sway the last presidential election to an ultra-liberal with a past that includes actively campaigning against his country during a time of war, it does tend to be quite effective when wielding its power against those who don't have close to a billion dollars in the bank.

    When thinking about that young Marine in Fallujah we must remember a few things in order to keep the images the mainstream media is providing us in context.

    While the US troops, along with their coalition allies, are fighting this war against terrorism from within the boundaries of the Geneva Conventions their opposition is not. In fact, the terrorists are doing everything they can to make the Geneva Conventions a liability for our troops. They are exploiting the limitations of humanity.

    It is against the conventions for the terrorists to be wearing clothing that would designate them as civilians, yet they do. This affords them the opportunity to blend in with the innocents of any given area while they move about in preparation for their next attack. This also puts all the innocents around them at risk, but then, when one is used to beheading innocents in order to make political statements, it can be assumed that they couldn't care less about putting innocents in harms way.

    It is against the conventions for them to use places of worship as operational points for their aggression, yet they do. In fact, at a recently captured mosque there were signs on the walls of the great hall designating areas for each of the terrorist groups who had come to Fallujah to wage terrorist attacks. The allies have come across mosque after mosque that has been used for ammunition depots. And it has become commonplace for our troops to receive gun and rocket fire from within the walls of these "places or worship."

    It is against the conventions for them to feign death when confronted with absolute defeat, yet they do. In many instances our troops have had to deal with bodies of defeated terrorists that have been rigged with explosives, booby-traps meant to take the lives of our soldiers and those of our allies. While the terrorists are well on their way to getting to know the "72 virgins" Allah allegedly gave them upon their "martyrdom," the true freedom fighters in Iraq are dealing with death rigged with death.

    Combine all of that with these facts:

    * The day before the incident in question a booby-trapped corpse set-up by the terrorists killed a young Marine

    * The Marine in question had been injured earlier on the same day as the shooting

    * These Marines and allies had been conducting non-stop operations to free Fallujah from the terrorists who oppressively occupied that city

    It is plain to see where the benefit of the doubt should be afforded.

    All of that being taken into consideration, it is disappointing to hear US Ambassador to Iraq John Negroponte say, "no one can be happy" about the incident, "but the important point is that the individual in question will be dealt with." It should be even more disturbing that the mainstream media is leading the way in "dealing with" the young Marine in question.

    We the People have to make a decision on whether or not we actually want to win this War on Terror. Listening to how the mainstream media and the liberal left in this country want us to deal with the issue of terrorism - fighting on an "uneven battlefield," legal action against our troops at the ready - it is hard to believe they want us to win.

    Ellie

    IN LOVING MEMORY OF MY LATE HUSBAND, SSgt Roger A. Alfano, USMC
    ONE PROUD MARINE
    1961-1977
    Vietnam 1968/69
    Once a Marine...Always a Marine

    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1204617174

  12. #12
    Registered User Free Member Lock-n-Load's Avatar
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    Thumbs down The Above With Frank Salvato

    Hey Salvati...you played both sides of this controversy..."butt the freakin' out"...you are not a wounded combat Marine in the assault phase of the attack on a hotly contested building...those wounded Ragheads had fired at this Marine assault unit with lethal force...entering this structure, Marine reaction is instantainious with no time for reading the Geneva Convention preamble to a resolute enemy...this combat Marine performed up to the highest Navy/Marine orders of the day...he deserves acclaim; not an ass-kicking!! Semper Fi, Mac


  13. #13
    Sgt. Smitty
    Guest Free Member
    Hey l-n-l.....let's get up a squad, i'd take that Marine and damned day of the week. S/F Smitty


  14. #14

    Exclamation

    Take the gloves off!!
    The RAGHEADS have posted rewards for dead Americans.Fark em',lets introduce them to the Virgins in Paradise they want to meet so bad.
    Give our Leathernecks all the Ammo they can carry with instructions to use every round,then return for more.........
    Dammit!!!why do the youngsters have all the fun!!!!
    I want to play!!!!!


  15. #15
    Registered User Free Member Lock-n-Load's Avatar
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    Smile Sgt Smitty-USMC

    You know, Sarge, it's a crying shame to put this decorated/combat Marine under a microscope by "hindsight experts" who don't fathom the mindset of Marines in/during the assault phase of close combat...thank God some of us in here understands exactly, what this Marine did with zeal, dash and dispatch...yes, this young Fleet Marine Force warrior is consistant with all the other Marines from past eras...he's earned that distinction..I'd love to have him in "Our" squad anytime...and not thrown to these liberal/politically correct/ hacks and jackals who hate our Armed Forces...this would never have been exposed in the WW2 or the Korean War years...no siree!!; instead, he would have been "recommended for promotion" by his Skipper...my blood boils if this fine Marine gets any sort of reprimand!! Semper Fi SSGT CHRIS SARNO-USMC FMF


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