What is the best Guide/Leader Bootcamp Mentality?

[EliteWannabe76]

First of all, hello. This is my first post. I am a young senior in high school so I will be enlisting on my birthday on September 1st and should be shipping out to boot camp some time approximately around June of 2018.

I have searched around many posts for the mentality of boot camp / Leadership / Guide and the best answer I got was "Speed, Volume, Intensity" which is great, but I think a little more detail would be helpful.

I can do over 20 strict dead hang pull ups, 115 crunches in 2 minutes, and a 19:30 3 mile run, and rucking once a week with 45 lbs. I still have a long time to get in better shape but I don't know the correct mentality.

What is the correct mentality? For example, should you kiss the Drill Sergeant's a$$ or "have balls" and say what you think intensely and deliberately? From what I've picked up, volunteering is the way to go for guide / squad leader. If I get handed the position of guide, should I act as a friend to other recruits or act as some other "Recruit-DI"? I'm very capable of doing most things well but I don't know necessarily what to do besides exactly what I'm told.

Does anybody have any advice for a good mentality for performing well in boot camp and leading other recruits or being guide? Any rule of thumbs would be greatly appreciated.

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[EliteWannabe76]

Correcting myself: Drill Instructor, not Drill Sergeant. That's a bad mistake.

[USMC 2571]

Make sure you don't make it complicated in your own mind, because it is in actuality quite simple. You are to make up your mind to obey every order to the best of your ability, instantly and correctly.

You will give OVER 100% every day, and before you know it, you will be graduating from boot camp. But you have got to determine that you will give this MORE than you are able to, if that makes sense. This determination to do well will carry you through this and many another obstacle.

Unquestioning, instant obedience to orders, of whatever kind.

Period. That is it in a nutshell. Anything less than your absolute best, will not be good enough.

So, say to yourself, I will do my absolute best, obey orders instantly, strive to do well------and you will in fact do well.....there is no other formula or syllabus for achieving the title of U.S. Marine.....it is as simple as what I stated.

[USMC 2571]

Addressing the other part of your inquiry, be sure you take care of yourself and do what YOU are supposed to be doing.

Your intervention with others, your speaking to the DIs etc will mark you as someone who thinks he is in boot camp to correct and help others, rather than simply doing what he is told and assimilating the training being given him. If you speak to the DIs it had better not be anything but a question that was invited by them. If you assist someone else it had better be a genuine hardship situation, like on a run, and someone is about to drop their rifle, or stumbles and is about to go down, and you reach out and help him regain his balance, etc

but any interference by you with others, including the DI, will probably backfire on you. There is such a thing as trying too hard. Let the DIs be DIs, they don't need an assistant. If you try to draw their attention in any way, it might be the unwanted type of attention, and will guarantee that you get plenty of PT as a corrective measure.

I've seen this before on this forum, where someone wants to be guide etc and they have an urge to intervene, to instruct, to help, but those are all strategies likely to bring upon your head a continuous rain of abuse while you are being PTd to death until you confine your opinions and assistance to yourself

Now, others may disagree, but this is my opinion, one of many.

Take it as one person's personal view of these things. Others may differ. That's fine, this is a free country.

[USMC 2571]

What is the correct mentality? For example, should you kiss the Drill Sergeant's a$$ or "have balls" and say what you think intensely and deliberately?
------------------------------------------------------------------

This is why I said what I said. Be very careful in boot camp.

[irpat54]

First of all, hello. This is my first post. I am a young senior in high school so I will be enlisting on my birthday on September 1st and should be shipping out to boot camp some time approximately around June of 2018.

I have searched around many posts for the mentality of boot camp / Leadership / Guide and the best answer I got was "Speed, Volume, Intensity" which is great, but I think a little more detail would be helpful.

I can do over 20 strict dead hang pull ups, 115 crunches in 2 minutes, and a 19:30 3 mile run, and rucking once a week with 45 lbs. I still have a long time to get in better shape but I don't know the correct mentality.

these are very good scores and may get you noticed, could be good could be bad

What is the correct mentality? For example, should you kiss the Drill Sergeant's a$$ or "have balls" and say what you think intensely and deliberately? From what I've picked up, volunteering is the way to go for guide / squad leader. If I get handed the position of guide, should I act as a friend to other recruits or act as some other "Recruit-DI"? I'm very capable of doing most things well but I don't know necessarily what to do besides exactly what I'm told.

Does anybody have any advice for a good mentality for performing well in boot camp and leading other recruits or being guide? Any rule of thumbs would be greatly appreciated.

once in boot camp you will speak only when spoken to, the first word out of your mouth will be Sir and the last word out of your mouth will be sir.
if you try to come across any other way other than doing what you're told when to do so at the best of your ability will get all kinds of grief.
if you try to kiss the DI's ass or try to come across as cocky or belligerent, you will wish you died as a child,

best of luck to you

[EliteWannabe76]

Thank you, I appreciate this reply irpat54. Keep it simple and do only what you are told. Understood.

[EliteWannabe76]

Thank you for your reply USMC 2571. It is understood that I should not intervene with other recruits but just do my own thing as I'm told to. I appreciate the extra detail.

[USMC 2571]

Well, you're interested in trying to excel in boot camp, which is a good goal to have. Better than planning on just getting by, like some folks. I hope our insights helped you a bit. You can still be motivated and yet try to keep it under control-----as Mongoose (Billy) told me just now on the phone, and he may come in here to post, your DIs will watch you and they will see your leadership qualities if and when they appear, on their own. If you have leadership qualities and capabilities, they will notice that. It will be evident, apart from you trying to make it happen. You will do fine. Just keep us posted here, if you would. Good luck.

[Tennessee Top]

The Senior Drill Instructor (SDI) hires and fires guides. In the beginning, they may ask for volunteers because they have not had time to evaluate anyone's leadership abilities. Or, they may ask about leadership experience such as JROTC, Young Marine Program, etc.

Physical ability is certainly a must. The guide is at the front of the platoon carrying the guidon for formation runs - and MUST stay there. The quickest way to get fired is to fall back or fall out of a run. The guide is the first to go though the obstacle course, confidence course, rappel tower, etc. He is also the last to go through the chow line at the messhall (leadership always eats last).

Sometimes, all the leadership and physical abilities don't count for anything. Sometimes, the SDI simply wants to give another recruit a chance at the senior leadership position to see how they handle it. My platoon had 3 different guides - in the same day. Our SDI was looking to see how our platoon reacted to sudden change.

My niece rotated between guide and 4th squad leader. She was guide 3 times but graduated a squad leader and meritorious PFC. She said her DI's had their favorites and made sure those females got a chance at guide (ability didn't have a lot to do with it).

No. A guide is not friends with the other recruits. This does not mean they have to dispise you. It means, when you say something, they listen and respond to what you said. When the DI's are not around, you are responsible for what the platoon does or does not do. Here is an example. The SDI will tell the guide he wants the squad bay field-dayed (scrubbed clean) and will return in one hour. The guide will supervise the field day but won't necessarily be walking around with a scrub brush. The SDI will come back in an hour and inspect. If the inspection passes, the guide will keep his job. If not, the guide will be fired. The SDI doesn't care how the guide accomplished his mission (good cop/bad cop) - just that the mission got accomplished.

One thing you should do that may be beneficial (in case you are handed the guidon). Go to youtube.com and watch Marines marching in formation. Pay attention to how the guide holds the guidon while marching and where the guide goes depending on if the platoon is in column (marching straight ahead) or on-line (lined up horizontally). Notice that if a straight line is painted on the parade deck, the guide will march down that line to keep the platoon in a perfectly straight line. There is a pike on top of the guidon (shaped like a spade). That pike must remain pointing to the front at all times (not sideways or at an angle). Seems like a minor detail but let it get out of whack and there will be hell to pay. This is one example of the correct mentality - attention to detail. The guide sets the example for the entire platoon. If the guide demonstrates attention to detail, so will the rest of the platoon. If the guide is sloppy, the rest of the platoon will be sloppy. You get the idea.

[EliteWannabe76]

USMC 2571 Thank you, I will keep you Marines posted.

Tennessee Top, thank you for the detailed response.
When you said that the guide won't be "walking around with a scrub brush" does that mean that the guide is essentially leading the platoon to complete a task via commands? I would think that an hour of allotted time would be more than enough to clean a squad bay. I'd clean it all myself if I could. Would the guide help out to increase morale/cohesion or maybe simply to clean it faster?

For example,
"Let's clean this squad bay, we have a lot of time to do it." Then you help clean it with whoever is available to help you. When you are done you go over and scrutinize your cleaning work as much as possible to pass the inspection.

Would this be a proper way to handle this task?

I'm also curious what you mean by leadership. I (think I) have common sense, and can work with people correctly. I recall leadership traits with the JJ DID TIE BUCKLE mnemonic device. Is this basically what the SDI's are looking for?

My fear is that although my intentions are good, something will happen like getting fired and never getting a chance to be guide/squad leader again, or a fellow recruit not cooperating. Any tips with this or should I apply the simple- "Do your best" philosophy?

[Tennessee Top]

It's apparent you have no leadership experience. Any athletic team has leaders (some appointed and some not). Your high school marching band has leaders as does the cheerleading squad. This will work to your disadvantage. While you're observing/learning, the leaders will naturally stand out and be noticed by the DI's.

There are different leadership styles. What works best for one may not work for another. One cannot fake leadership - you either have it or you don't (your subordinates will know either way). Like I mentioned, an effective leader will accomplish the mission at hand. One guide may walk around and help clean while another may strictly supervise. Both will issue orders otherwise nothing will get done. Cleaning the squadbay yourself is NOT leadership - that's shirking your leadership responsibilities. I just used an hour as a random number. It's up to the SDI; could be one hour or could be 15 minutes. Whatever the time limit, the SDI expects his guide to get the job done.

Common sense is part of being a good leader. Subordinates expect their leader to demonstrate common sense. However, common sense is not one of the 14 leadership traits. Bootcamp is all about team work. One is expected to work towards the common good of the platoon. That's why recruits are not allowed to use the word I"; there is no "I" in team.

Most things in bootcamp are out of your control (you do what you're told when you're told to do it). Being guide is one of those. Typical platoon starts out with 80-90 bodies and only one can be guide. So, the numbers are not in your favor. If you do get the job, keeping it is not easy. The recruit who graduates guide is the platoon honor man. Honor man goes to the recruit with the highest combined scores on the rifle range, physical fitness test (PFT), combat fitness test (CFT), and academic average. All you can do is your best every single day. The DI's know who is putting out and who isn't (can't fake effort). There really is no reason to worry about it.

You still have about a year before you'll be standing in those yellow footprints. You have time to talk to your recruiters about this topic as well as boot Marines who come back to your RSS for recruiters assistance (RA). There are hundreds of books about military leadership. Combat leadership is not appropriate in this instance so don't waste your time with those. There are a number of books by former drill instructors covering their time on the drill field. One or two of these may answer some of your questions regarding what the DI's are looking for and may even touch on what it takes to be a successful guide. Look at amazon.com.

[Kurt Loadeater]

What is the correct mentality? For example, should you kiss the Drill Sergeant's a$$ or "have balls" and say what you think intensely and deliberately?

You seem to have some odd notions as to the normal interactions between a recruit and a Drill instructor. They're not going to care what you think. They have a hard job, they've been in the Marine Corps for a while, and will probably have around 7-8 years of more life experience than you.

Imagine a 10 year old coming up to you and trying to 'kiss ass' or 'have balls'. You wouldn't be impressed or really care either way.

A guide might be a leadership position for recruits, but they're still a recruit. I can't even remember who our guide was, I almost never interacted with him. At best he just immediately relayed instructions the Drill Instructor's gave to him in front of all of us. Or maybe yelled at some idiotic kid dragging ass. The guide is not a Drill Instructor.

No one will care who was guide and who wasn't outside of boot camp. You'll find that leadership positions (especially in bootcamp) can be filled for all sorts of arbitrary reasons. A common reason that i saw in bootcamp and later the infantry, is choosing big muscular guys who have enough common sense and intelligence to not F*** up too bad. If you're not big and muscular, and your leadership prefers to fill billets that way, you'll be SOL.

Your SDI is not going to carefully ponder the merits of every single recruit for their leadership potential in order to fill the guide or squad leader positions, because honestly it just doesn't matter that much.

[Tennessee Top]

^^^average age of a DI today is 26 years old.

[USMC 2571]

Kurt's post---true-----and another thing. Guides and squad leaders may be routinely hired and fired, for the slightest thing. Getting to be one is no guarantee you will last out the week in your new position, after all your hard work and planning etc....Just worry about finishing boot camp and do your absolute best at all times. Don't overthink this, it's actually quite simple. Do as you're told----instantly.