Are rifles redundant? - Page 2
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  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxtrotOscar View Post
    Correct Silverado, Its the weight and maneuverability...

    I'd hate to try and clear/sweep closed confinement with a LMG...

    I also was an 0331, Effective range was 1100-1200 m, 1500 plus for a skilled gunner for plunging fire... Rounds could be walked even further.. Tracers were burned out @ 750m...
    thanks again,, been a long time..lol

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by silveradomick View Post
    Tom, I get what you're saying, but you're not taking the "maneuver" element into account. Once a base of fire is established by a belt fed or two, then a maneuver element is punched out to assault enemy positions. Those guys are moving, and having each of them armed with a 20lb gun rather than a 7lb rifle is going to restrict their ability to close with the enemy effectively. Now, if you armed them with automatic rifles, sure that's fine, but actual light machine guns? I'm guessing you've never carried a 249 or 240 for any significant length of time. They're worth their weight, but they are damn heavy.
    Ahhh, ok. That’s really clear. Thanks. And you’re right; I’ve never handled anything in the M249 bracket. The British army had just adopted Minimis when I left. Before that, we used the LSW and GPMG (the former being something akin to the M27 and the latter a heavy, crew-served beast); neither of which were on a par. I figured the smaller, lighter Minimis were introduced to give infantry sections a bit more portable firepower. I had not fully appreciated how limited that portability really was. Mystery solved. Thank you.


  3. #18
    You also have to appreciate that Marine Corps Infantry in a fire fight is ALWAYS on the attack, we are not prone to establish defensive positions unless the fire coming at us is simply overwhelming, and this is a changing element. The moment we perceive a break we move forward to the objective. And of course the amount of ground we take at times may be very limited.

    You also have to understand that MC infantry are extremely well trained and each man simply knows what to do. Even today I as I remember my past I still stand in awe at the amount of fire power a small MC squad can put out, really, a thing of beauty, overwhelming.

    Our M60's (yes I'm time challenged) starts out on line with us with heavy surprising fire, then the line moves forward with the 60's then joining us and taking new positions. Though we are "light" infantry we are the hammer, the shock troops that simply do not stop. I guess to understand completely you really have to be there as witness/participant. Ohhhhhhhh the memories.


  4. #19
    "There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."
    Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army



  5. #20
    Administrator Platinum Member madsox's Avatar
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    For a little comparison of the various weapons systems, I just visited Marines.com - official specs from the Corps on each follow:

    M16A4 Specifications
    Ammunition: 5.56X45mm
    Weight: 8.79 pounds
    Barrel length: 20 inches
    Maximum effective range: 550 meters
    Maximum range: 3600 meters
    Sustained Rate of fire: 12-15 rounds/minute
    Magazine Capacity: 30 rounds

    M4 Carbine Specifications
    Ammunition: 5.56mm rounds
    Weight with 30-round magazine: 7.5 pounds
    Length: 33 inches
    Maximum effective range: 500 meters
    Muzzle velocity: 2,970 feet per second
    Rate of fire (sustained): 12-15 rounds per minute
    Magazine Capacity: 30 rounds


    M249 (SAW) Specifications
    Ammunition: 5.56X45mm NATO-standard ammunition
    Weight: 17 pounds with bipod and tools
    Length: 41 inches
    Maximum effective range: 1000 meters
    Maximum range: 3600 meters
    Rate of fire: 85 rounds/minute sustained, 725-850 rounds/minute cyclic
    Capacity: Ammunition comes in 100- or 200-round belts. The SAW can also accept the standard 30-round M4 magazine

    M240B (LMG) Specifications
    Ammunition: 7.62mm
    Weight with bipod: 24 pounds
    Length: 47.5 inches
    Maximum effective range with tripod: 1800 meters (1.1 miles)
    Maximum range: 3725 meters (2.31 miles)
    Maximum rate of fire: 100 rounds/minute (sustained), 200 rounds/minute (rapid), 650-950 rounds/minute (cyclic)

    So there we go. Different weapons for different functions.

    The new M27 isn't on the website yet, but these specs seem to be correct:

    M27 IAR Specifications
    Ammunition:
    5.56X45mm
    weight:
    9 lbs
    length:
    33 - 36.9 inches
    barrel length:
    16.5 inches
    Maximum effective range:
    550 meters (point target) 600 meters (area target)
    Maximum range:
    3545 meters
    Maximum rate of fire:
    36 rpm (sustained), 90 rpm (auto, 3-5 round bursts), 700-850 rpm (cyclic)
    Magazine Capacity:
    30 rounds

    Weights are all loaded with basic optics (for those that use optics) but no other accessories (bipods, slings, etc) as far as I can tell.

    s/f!


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