Inter-Service Transfer

[lagvek]

Greetings Marines,

I’m a 23 year old Sonar Technician currently serving active duty aboard a Los Angeles Class 668(I) fast attack submarine based out of Pearl Harbor, HI. My PRD is April of 2017; my EAOS is April of 2019. This Soft EAOS includes the 12 month extension for Submarine training and the 12 month extension for immediate and early advancement to E-4.

I came here in hopes of leveraging the knowledge of this community in how I might go about an inter-service transfer to the Marine Corps. While I don't regret my choice to serve Active Duty in the Military, I do at this time regret where I chose to provide that service. I joined the military with the following intentions:

- To be a part of a professional organization
- To trust the individuals around me implicitly
- To work in a hands on environment
- To maintain physical readiness/fitness
- To receive training that translates well outside of the military as well as inside to a career
- To receive adequate training in my designated field
- To enter a field with advancement opportunities

I can tell you with a clear conscience that the Navy has failed to provide me with the career path I had once hoped to follow.

• I’m a part of the most unprofessional community in the Navy where military bearing is something joked about; something the poor, “Surface Fleet” is forced to deal with.
• The individuals I serve alongside are of the most questionable character and ethics. Many of whom are falsely qualified in some of their duties through a hierarchy of favoritism akin to a high school.
• There is nothing hands on aboard a Submarine for a Sonar Technician like I had hoped to find in system maintenance. I have gained no knowledge in the use or repair of electrical systems, computer networking, or hardware restoration and there is no potential for me to ever learn these things in this field. I have no more experience working with modern computer systems than I did the day I left for Recruit Training Command.
• My command does not lead a command PT, nor does the Navy place much value in physical readiness, nor does submarine life afford much of an opportunity for and active lifestyle.
• The best training I ever received was in “A” school from instructors who motivated their students through their professionalism and expertise. Upon arrival to the fleet I have attended fewer than 10 divisional training sessions. There is virtually no mentorship program nor OJT aboard the ship rather there is instead an expectation that sailors will either: A, teach themselves everything, or B, should inherently know how to do what’s asked of them. Training at base school houses are led by self-absorbed shore duty sailors who use their podium as a soapbox for their opinions and interests more than their approved curriculum.
• I have no interest in Oceanography nor an interest in working aboard any civilian vessel requiring the use of a Sonar Suite such as Carnival Cruise Liners.
• My personal advancement to E-4 Third Class Petty Officer was earned through long nights in the schoolhouse in Groton and via the early advancement program for the top 10% of each class’ students. The advancement to the rank of E-5 Second Class Petty Officer is abysmal for my rate. In the September cycle of 2015 three Sonar Techs were advanced fleet wide with an advancement rate of .91% (less than one yes) and the cycle before in March of 2015 was 18%. The program known as, “Star Re-Enlistment” where a sailor attends a “C” school for an NEC and advancement to E-5 upon completion of 9 months of schooling in exchange for a back-to-back Sea Tour of an additional three years is the only viable option for advancement. At this time it is now circulating in the Navy that this program may be withheld from the rate of STS for a period of time due to issues with overmanning.

Growing up I had always imagined serving in the military. I however never imagined that I’d serve in the Navy. In high school and in college I’d determined that a career and Computer Technologies was what I’d strive to achieve. A Navy recruiter contacted me maybe six months after graduating high school and asked me what my intentions were for my future. He went on to encourage me to consider the Navy’s options for rates in computer technologies. After taking the ASVAB he pushed me towards a job aboard Submarines which I rationalized must field the latest and greatest technologies the country has to offer.

Through a series of blind and uneducated decisions I find myself in a career that is neither what I had envisioned for myself, nor something that I enjoy, nor that I feel is leading me in the direction I had once hoped to head in. I was naive and negligent in making decisions regarding my life that I didn’t fully grasp the severity of. I wish it was as simple as switching majors like a college student. However I am contracted in my service and that contract is binding. It’s very easy for me to look at my aforementioned list of goals and ask myself, “if you wanted to lead an active lifestyle what possessed you to believe Submarines would afford you that? Why did you say yes to everything? Why didn’t you take the the time to research your future or better yet your options in other service branches?”. It hurts now to think about it because I feel I am wasting my time and that time is measured in years of my life. Time which is non-refundable. What truly hurts the worst however is that there is only one person to blame for the situation I find myself in. No one held a gun to my head and forced me into my decisions. Not my recruiter, not my friends, not my parents. Rather the arbiter in those endeavours was myself and myself alone. That said I reject the statement, “you made a poor decision and now you have to live with it.” I cannot sit idly by and ride this out. I have one life to lead and I’d like to do everything possible to make sure I don’t look back and regret the six year black hole sitting in the memory of my twenties.

My goal now is to seek an inter-service transfer to the Marine Corps where I believe I have a much greater if not guaranteed chance of finding the things I’d hoped to find through Military Service. I’m not interested in retaining my rank which I know would be forfeit. The goal is not to transition smoothly from one service to another retaining all my amenities and privileges that I have now like the Army’s, “Blue-to-Green” program. This is about a lifestyle change. One that I failed to make fully several years ago now. So I’d like to ask for your help in regards to the following:

• Is an inter-service transfer possible prior to completion of contract? If so, what is my best course of action?
• If I have to complete my contract do I also have to complete my extensions or can they be waived at time of re-enlistment?
• Re-enlistment; when it comes time for re-enlistment can I re-enlist in the Marine Corps in place of the Navy? Again, what are the steps I need to take to achieve this? Forfeiture of rank is a non-issue and so is the creation of a new four-year contract with the Marine Corps.
• If my final option is to leave the Navy upon completion of service what are the chances of enlisting in the Marine Corps as prior service? I would be exiting the service a little over a month from my 26th birthday.

So far I’ve spoken to both my own Command Career Counselor and the Naval Submarine Support Center’s CCC office (Squadron). Neither of whom were knowledgeable enough to offer any other guidance than to speak with a Marine Recruiter. As of yesterday I did just that speaking with a Staff Sergeant at a local office nearby. I have to compliment the Staff Sergeant as he has been the most willing to help me. He didn’t ask where I was coming from, why I was seeking this, not even my name. He immediately addressed my objective, took my phone number and explained that he would do his best to leverage the recruiting experience of fellow Marines on island. This may sound too good to be true however he’s been more active in helping me with this than anyone else. He made no promises and recommended I brace for the potential hard answer. But I have to thank him. Outside of speaking with the aforementioned recruiter, I have been unable to find information in NAVADMINs and MILPERSMAN outside of the DD 368 Conditional Release form which has universally been associated with any potential transfer across what information I have found. I also understand that I will likely require both release by detailer, approval from my Captain, and potentially approval from, “Big Navy”.

Any prior recruiters or counselor’s with advice or direction to offer is appreciated. I have no issue footing the bill and hand routing all of this. The issue is a matter of: Is it possible? Yes? Then how do I get started/do it? Thank you for reading this and for your consideration. I apologize for the length; this isn’t something that I take lightly or flippantly.

Very Respectfully,

STS3(SS)Gallagher

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[Kegler300]

Anything's possible, but it depends on the needs of the Marine Corps. The gaining service, in this case the Marine Corps, must submit a Conditional Release request (DD Form 368) to Navy Personnel Command (PERS-911) for approval first. Good luck!

[Rocky C]

Under your post you can simply read " Similar Threads " and most of the answers to your questions are right there.

[chulaivet1966]

Greetings Marines, Growing up I had always imagined serving in the military. I however never imagined that I’d serve in the Navy. In high school and in college I’d determined that a career and Computer Technologies was what I’d strive to achieve. A Navy recruiter contacted me maybe six months after graduating high school and asked me what my intentions were for my future. He went on to encourage me to consider the Navy’s options for rates in computer technologies. After taking the ASVAB he pushed me towards a job aboard Submarines which I rationalized must field the latest and greatest technologies the country has to offer.

OP....just some thoughts.

Don't mean to sound discouraging but based on the above would the USMC actually cater better to your preferred path than the Navy?
Would the Air Force or Coast Guard actually be a better match with more choices?
Or, are you just totally burned out on the Navy and more interested in a new challenge with a sincere desire to be a Marine?

Seems to me you are asking for something quite MOS specific and your timing at the point of (wishful) transfer would have to be absolutely perfect.
What MOS would you settle for if no "computer science" related MOS was available in the USMC?

Would you not have to go through USMC boot camp also?
I don't know at this moment.

You sound serious and I can appreciate your zeal for change given the novelette above.
If I missed anything in your post with my comments...well...that was challenging read and I'm daft sometimes.

Should you succeed with this path I'd suggest you return here and detail your journey for others to learn something from.

Again...don't mean to discourage you from earning our coveted EGA....I'm just being realistic and will wish you luck in your pursuit.

That's my take on it....carry on.

[LCPL1341]

You seem to be hinting toward some idea that you have where you will not have to go through bootcamp; you might as well forget about that. You WILL go through bootcamp in the Marines, then MCT, then MOS school. You'll be the same as everyone else, only older and prior service. No one will care that you were in the Navy, and as you already know, you won't retain rank or paygrade. You'll start over as an E-1/E-2. Your command would have to approve a service transfer and the DD 368 has to be signed by the first 0-6 in your CoC (For Marines, this is how it is). Chances of your command letting you go is slim to none. They invested time and money into your training, so they're getting every penny's worth of that investment out of you. So the service transfer thing (especially because you're active) is a pipe dream at best. Even then, you'd STILL have to go through Marine bootcamp and start from scratch; there is no way of getting around that.

[LCPL1341]

So what you should do: Wait for EAS, then go talk to a Marine recruiter and see what he has to tell you.

[Phantom Blooper]

In my opine the Navy invested all that money in training you for your MOS and schools I don't think they will transfer you until your contract is up...

Good luck!

[lagvek]

I'll take the NAVPERSCOM number down and see what I can find; I read some of the related threads and discovered the Enlisted Personnel Manual so I'll take the time to look there as well. If someone can't tell me outright what to do (I never expected the answer to be found so easily as that, promise) then these kinds of resources are exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks for the direction Marine.

[lagvek]

I apologize for clogging the forums; I thought I'd searched enough tags and post titles to warrant a new post but unfortunately I was mistaken. In the related post with the deployed airman it appears one of the resolutions becomes to wait for EAS, the hard answer, and proceed from there as a new accession. On the bright side a new accession appears to begin as a new contract in place of prior service, which if all other routes fail, would provide a better chance of enlisting.

[lagvek]

I have no reservations as to the fact that I would need to attend Marine Boot Camp and MCT; Marine Boot Camp is the only transferable boot camp throughout the services. Losing rank is again a non-issue; I understand that the Guide is the only Marine to depart training as Lance Corporal. You're correct in that the Navy has invested time and money in my training, and with a crew of 150 and few new gains year to year with a high volume of deployments annually you're correct in saying that my chances are lessened by these things. I've also read so long as the ship is deploy-able then my chances are forfeit. That said there will be a downtime in my time aboard. I'm trying to gather as much information as I can now to get the ball rolling so I can push this up the chain when the opportunity arrives. However I'd still like to try and as such I'm trying to cover what ground I can prior to speaking to my XO and eventually (hopefully) my CO.

[lagvek]

No you're post highlights a very realistic perspective, you're right, and I thank you for it. With what time I have in the Navy right now I've seen what a lot of the other, "Tech" rates have to offer and none of them will offer me the technical expertise I'm looking for. I've encountered ITs, ITS', CTMs, CTIs, NAV-ETs, COMM-ETs. No seagoing rate or shore billeted rates offer the lifestyle I'm looking to lead now. Yes they all could translate to a job with Lockheed, Boeing, maybe even Cisco Networks but a lot of what they do isn't so much in skill and will instead qualify them in title in the civilian world, where a lot of these jobs are a mystery to those looking at the resume. I find no appeal in an air-conditioned desk job processing message traffic, crypto, or computer/network maintenance, it's not for me. I know I said I entered the Navy for work with computers but by now I'm convinced there isn't a rate in the Navy that could offer me what I sought when I joined.

So you're right, I'm burnt out on the Navy and I'm not interested in the Coast Guard, the Air-force, nor the Army. I'm not looking to settle for second best again, I'd like the challenge and satisfaction to be gained from enlisting in the United States Marine Corps.

My real goal now is to learn a trade skill, something mechanical. The Marine Corps has more than a few MOS' that I think offer that opportunity. There are jobs in refrigeration and air conditioning (EPA Certs), there's MOSs centered around Electrician's work, there's Diesel Mechanics, Repair Technician's and Crewman for both LAVs and MBTs. There's multiple roles in the Engineer MOS. While the Navy has some things like this none of them are going to come with the camaraderie, the active lifestyle (Physical fitness and just moving in general), the respect, decorum, and pride of being a Marine. That's what makes the Marines appealing. It's just frustrating since now that I've taken the time to do the research I'm already enlisted elsewhere.

It's not just the job though. I don't find satisfaction in the title of Sailor or Sonarman. I still feel like I settled for second best and it's a gnawing thought in my head all the time. There's substance to the men and women of the Marine Corps.

[chulaivet1966]

No you're post highlights a very realistic perspective, you're right, and I thank you for it.
So you're right, I'm burnt out on the Navy and I'm not interested in the Coast Guard, the Air-force, nor the Army. I'm not looking to settle for second best again, I'd like the challenge and satisfaction to be gained from enlisting in the United States Marine Corps....and pride of being a Marine.

It's not just the job though. I don't find satisfaction in the title of Sailor or Sonarman. I still feel like I settled for second best and it's a gnawing thought in my head all the time. There's substance to the men and women of the Marine Corps.

Just a couple of candid thoughts....after a couple of fingers of Crown Royal.

I'm just an old fvck from an old era that was in a land far, far away.
This may sound trite to the uninitiated but the pride I feel as a US Marine cannot be measured in words.
I don't boast, have tats, sport any overt paraphernalia (other than my utility cover) or feel I have to beat my chest to the outside world.

I don't have to....I've survived fighting with the best of the best....the tip of the spear. I wouldn't trade that 13 months of hell for all the opium in India. The Brotherhood that was nurtured in a time of war, few will know that privilege.

Ok...I'm done....keep this site updated with your progress...or regress.

Carry on....

[TolzerVman]

1. First you must finish your active duty commitment. You signed on for an 8-year commitment. Part is served on Active duty and part is served as a Reservist. When you attempt to enlist in the Marine Corps, you will have to be released from the Navy Reserve.

2. Have you taken into account your Retention Control Point? Not sure what it is called in the Navy, and I forgot what it is called in the Marine Corps. You will have x amount of years of Active duty when you get out of the Navy. If you make into the Marine Corps and graduate boot camp, you will be an E-2/E-3. You will have less total time to make it to Corporal and Sergeant than a true boot. Depending on your MOS, you may still only make it to E-4 and get kicked out because you did not make it to E-5 within a certain of amount of years.

3. You are worried about qualifying now, but when you get out of the Navy, the rules for enlistment into the Marine Corps could be different. You need to continue being the best Sailor and Sonar Technician that you can be to ensure you get a DD Form 214 with the best Re-enlistment Code.

[MunkyVsRobot]

TL|DR I only read a portion of your dissertation that you wrote not even sure if you are trolling. Stay with the branch you are with now unless you want to lose all your rank and go be max a lance and have to do recruit training all over again.