Marine Aviation

[evandille]

I saw on a similar post:
(http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/sh...ation-Question)

that if your recruiter grantees you a slot at flight school, and you stay qualified until you actually get there (according to the forum you usually have to wait and do another assigned position until your slot at P'cola), and if you complete the training and don't wash out, you will fly.

My question is about getting into flight school at P'cola. Does getting good grades in high school, college, ASVAB, or having gone to school at the Naval Academy, or having Eagle Scout get you a higher slot into getting into Flight School?

Basically, is there any way to expedite the process of getting into flight school?

If there isn't, doesn't matter. I just want to be a Marine. Being a pilot would be awesome though!

Any help would be great.

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[USMC 2571]

Welcome to the site---as luck would have it, there is an officer on this site who is in flight school as we speak. Send him a PM---djj34 is his username, he's very helpful and has good info. Good luck.

[djj34]

You're going to love this post.

Short answer - no.

Long answer - a Marine is a Marine, no one really cares what you do before you earn any credibility. With respect to getting into flight school, your commissioning source doesn't really matter. The criteria you mention definitely helps getting that commission, whether it be from OCS, USNA or NROTC. By the time you've commissioned (with few exceptions) you will already have that "guarantee" to go to Pensacola. First, you will receive orders to The Basic School which is almost analogous to MCT for enlisted guys/gals. You'll go through six months of working on strengthening your leadership skills. You will qualify on the M16 and M9, read and write more orders than essays you wrote in college. You'll go over doctrine ad-nauseum, as well as tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) ranging from the fireteam up to leading a company sized element. That's really it in a nutshell. I'm sure this is that "other assigned position" you mentioned.

Flash forward six months and you're checking in to MATSG-21 at NAS Pensacola. If you do not already possess an FAA private pilot certificate, you'll get a class date for a screener called IFS - Introductory Flight Screening. You'll get civilian ground school shoved down your throat in a matter of 2-3 weeks, and then you'll fly 12 flights in a small single engine airplane with a civilian certified flight instructor. You'll take a checkride and complete a pattern solo in as little as 11 days. It's a good time.

The next step is to begin Aviation Preflight Indoctrination, or API. This is the beginning of your professional aviation training. It has changed since I went through in May 2013, but its mostly the same firehose course of aerodynamics, meteorology, turbine engines, basic aircraft systems, navigation, flight rules & regulations, as well as completing a mile swim for time, and doing various land and water survival requirements. Fail two tests and you can kiss aviation goodbye. It does happen, I have plenty of friends in logistics, finance, admin, comms, and maintenance... Stay in the books and give a damn, and you'll be OK.

After API you will receive orders for primary. Here there are two options. You could go up I-10 to scenic Milton, FL and fly the T-6B Texan II with VT-2, 3 or 6 out of NAS Whiting Field. Or... you can take a 750 mile drive and burn dead dinosaurs around South Texas with VT-27 or 28 at NAS Corpus Christi. You'll go through a ground school syllabus with 5 exams in 3 weeks as well as preparatory simulation rides before going to the real plane. Everything comes hot and heavy, very quickly, and you are expected to be an adult officer and know your sh*t from day one. You'll learn to fly the plane during the day. You'll learn to manhandle it up to 5g's, as well as fine tune it, through some aerobatics. You'll spend quite a bit of time doing this awesome thing called radio instrument navigation, and you'll do a few formation flights with another student 10 feet off your wing at 270mph. All in all, you'll fly about 75 hours, solo 3 times, and learn more than you thought you could. Your confidence as a professional should skyrocket. It's a good time.

At the end of primary you will put our four advanced pipelines in an order of preference. I requested Multiengine, Tiltrotor, Rotary, Strike, in that order. I got Tiltrotor. I won't go into super detail on the advanced phases because that's so far away, and some things are changing soon.

Tiltrotor - you'll go to South Whiting and get some helicopter action. Once again, quick, hot and heavy. Then you'll go to Corpus Christi and learn how to fly a bigger plane with two engines and more complicated systems. You'll learn to fly it, land it, and be safe with an engine out. You'll get really good at using a co pilot. Then you'll move on to the MV-22B Osprey with duty locations at MCAS Miramar, Camp Pendleton, MCAS New River and MCAS Futenma.

Maritime - you'll pack your bags (or stay) and head to Corpus Christi and do the exact same stuff I said above, just without the sexy helicopter stuff, and a smaller, less-powered aircraft. Mission is the same. You'll move on to the KC-130J Hercules with duty locations at MCAS Miramar, MCAS Cherry Point and MCAS Iwakuni. These are very rare and very coveted.

Rotary - helicopter action at South Whiting! Lots of it. Lots of emergencies. Lots of navigation. Lots of studying. Flying a very fun aircraft for 6-8 months and moving on to the AH-1W/Z, UH-1Y, or CH-53E is a hardly a bad deal. Locations include MCAS Kaneohe, MCAS Miramar, Camp Pendleton, MCAS New River and MCAS Cherry Point.

Strike - not really sure what these guys do much of other than look pretty. Joking aside, they go through a very long, very intense syllabus which has you landing on an aircraft carrier as its pinnacle. Over 100 flights and many of them are solo. My two best friends are in this track and they're working their butts off. They describe it as having an instructor in the plane only to make sure the plane doesn't dig nose first into the dirt. Very single pilot minded, jet pilots have to be self reliant. They can select the F/A-18A/C/D, the AV-8B and beginning this summer, the F-35B. Locations include MCAS Iwakuni, MCAS Miramar, MCAS Yuma, MCAS Cherry Point and MCAS Beaufort.

I know that was WAY more than you asked for, but I figure I could put the info down on here since pilot training info is severely lacking on here, and what is on here, is pretty outdated. Maybe now it can be a reference.

[USMC 2571]

Great info. I know you answered a PM of mine some time ago with some of this info, but as I mentioned to you before, it is mind-boggling how difficult flight training of any kind is. I don't know how would-be pilots do it.

[djj34]

It definitely all comes with time. Like eating an elephant, one bite at a time. 2-3 years of daily final examinations does wonders to the ability to learn! It also has a wonderful ability of finding out who doesn't belong.

Before each and every flight is a brief which is basically a one-on-one job interview... the job is to go execute the mission of the day. The IP is checking your knowledge, asking "why do you deserve to go learn from me today" in a roundabout way!

[USMC 2571]

When viewed like that, one day at a time, that changes my perspective a bit.....not as mind-boggling but certainly very challenging, no matter how we view it.

[evandille]

This was a huge help and a whole lot more than I was asking for, I have been trying to get a clear picture of the process of becoming a Marine pilot all over the internet, and that was by far the easiest to follow!!!!

I know you are busy with your training, so thanks for helping me out!


One more thing- eyesight. I know there is some kind of study the Navy is doing with corrective eye surgery, and you can still have less than par eyesight and become a pilot if you enroll in the study. This is for LASIK and PRK eye surgery. What is the status of this? Will the Navy still let you fly even if you have this corrective laser eye surgery? Whats the protocol??

Thanks alot, and good luck on your training!

[djj34]

Answered via PM.

What I said in regards to his last post was that I really can't make an official call on that. I have a few friends who had PRK, but I don't know what they did for approval/waiver. I also am unsure about the use of LASIK, but that there must be hope for corrective eye surgery.

I should probably look it up for myself... after wings I want to get my eyes checked thoroughly!

[UMDStudent24]

You're going to love this post.

Short answer - no.

Long answer - a Marine is a Marine, no one really cares what you do before you earn any credibility. With respect to getting into flight school, your commissioning source doesn't really matter. The criteria you mention definitely helps getting that commission, whether it be from OCS, USNA or NROTC. By the time you've commissioned (with few exceptions) you will already have that "guarantee" to go to Pensacola. First, you will receive orders to The Basic School which is almost analogous to MCT for enlisted guys/gals. You'll go through six months of working on strengthening your leadership skills. You will qualify on the M16 and M9, read and write more orders than essays you wrote in college. You'll go over doctrine ad-nauseum, as well as tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) ranging from the fireteam up to leading a company sized element. That's really it in a nutshell. I'm sure this is that "other assigned position" you mentioned.

Flash forward six months and you're checking in to MATSG-21 at NAS Pensacola. If you do not already possess an FAA private pilot certificate, you'll get a class date for a screener called IFS - Introductory Flight Screening. You'll get civilian ground school shoved down your throat in a matter of 2-3 weeks, and then you'll fly 12 flights in a small single engine airplane with a civilian certified flight instructor. You'll take a checkride and complete a pattern solo in as little as 11 days. It's a good time.

The next step is to begin Aviation Preflight Indoctrination, or API. This is the beginning of your professional aviation training. It has changed since I went through in May 2013, but its mostly the same firehose course of aerodynamics, meteorology, turbine engines, basic aircraft systems, navigation, flight rules & regulations, as well as completing a mile swim for time, and doing various land and water survival requirements. Fail two tests and you can kiss aviation goodbye. It does happen, I have plenty of friends in logistics, finance, admin, comms, and maintenance... Stay in the books and give a damn, and you'll be OK.

After API you will receive orders for primary. Here there are two options. You could go up I-10 to scenic Milton, FL and fly the T-6B Texan II with VT-2, 3 or 6 out of NAS Whiting Field. Or... you can take a 750 mile drive and burn dead dinosaurs around South Texas with VT-27 or 28 at NAS Corpus Christi. You'll go through a ground school syllabus with 5 exams in 3 weeks as well as preparatory simulation rides before going to the real plane. Everything comes hot and heavy, very quickly, and you are expected to be an adult officer and know your sh*t from day one. You'll learn to fly the plane during the day. You'll learn to manhandle it up to 5g's, as well as fine tune it, through some aerobatics. You'll spend quite a bit of time doing this awesome thing called radio instrument navigation, and you'll do a few formation flights with another student 10 feet off your wing at 270mph. All in all, you'll fly about 75 hours, solo 3 times, and learn more than you thought you could. Your confidence as a professional should skyrocket. It's a good time.

At the end of primary you will put our four advanced pipelines in an order of preference. I requested Multiengine, Tiltrotor, Rotary, Strike, in that order. I got Tiltrotor. I won't go into super detail on the advanced phases because that's so far away, and some things are changing soon.

Tiltrotor - you'll go to South Whiting and get some helicopter action. Once again, quick, hot and heavy. Then you'll go to Corpus Christi and learn how to fly a bigger plane with two engines and more complicated systems. You'll learn to fly it, land it, and be safe with an engine out. You'll get really good at using a co pilot. Then you'll move on to the MV-22B Osprey with duty locations at MCAS Miramar, Camp Pendleton, MCAS New River and MCAS Futenma.

Maritime - you'll pack your bags (or stay) and head to Corpus Christi and do the exact same stuff I said above, just without the sexy helicopter stuff, and a smaller, less-powered aircraft. Mission is the same. You'll move on to the KC-130J Hercules with duty locations at MCAS Miramar, MCAS Cherry Point and MCAS Iwakuni. These are very rare and very coveted.

Rotary - helicopter action at South Whiting! Lots of it. Lots of emergencies. Lots of navigation. Lots of studying. Flying a very fun aircraft for 6-8 months and moving on to the AH-1W/Z, UH-1Y, or CH-53E is a hardly a bad deal. Locations include MCAS Kaneohe, MCAS Miramar, Camp Pendleton, MCAS New River and MCAS Cherry Point.

Strike - not really sure what these guys do much of other than look pretty. Joking aside, they go through a very long, very intense syllabus which has you landing on an aircraft carrier as its pinnacle. Over 100 flights and many of them are solo. My two best friends are in this track and they're working their butts off. They describe it as having an instructor in the plane only to make sure the plane doesn't dig nose first into the dirt. Very single pilot minded, jet pilots have to be self reliant. They can select the F/A-18A/C/D, the AV-8B and beginning this summer, the F-35B. Locations include MCAS Iwakuni, MCAS Miramar, MCAS Yuma, MCAS Cherry Point and MCAS Beaufort.

I know that was WAY more than you asked for, but I figure I could put the info down on here since pilot training info is severely lacking on here, and what is on here, is pretty outdated. Maybe now it can be a reference.

Excellent info brother.

I will give some info about the strike pipeline and the F/A-18 specifically, since that was my route.

Strike is very much built to be single piloted. You have, I think about 125 syllabus flights in the T-45C and about 40 of them are solo. That doesn't seem like a lot of solos, but in the aviation community at that point, it is a ton. You have 3 solos in Primary in around 50 flights.

In the Hornet FRS you have about 86 syllabus flights and 62 of them are solo (and only about 4 of the dual flights actually require another pilot in the jet. The rest can be a WSO configured jet with a WSO in the back. I.e., only the front seat can actually fly.) Once you get to the Hornet, the assumption is that after your first 4 or 5 flights, you will forever and ever afterward be the only pilot on board, so you better be able to fly the damn thing. Additionally, flying the Hornet is easier than the T-45C and pretty easy in general. It is doing everything else in the Hornet that is difficult.

Strike seems tough when you go through it, but looking back, it was incredibly easy in scope. You get introduced to a lot of difficult concepts and difficult things to do in formation, but it is all watered down. The entire syllabus really is just exposure. You will have a blast if you go through it. Landing on a carrier makes you feel awesome, orange and white jet or not. You'll have done something that very few others have done. The first time you do section engaged maneuvering you'll think that you're as cool as the dudes on Top Gun. (Even though the entire flight is scripted, and the bandit follows scripted moves, haha.)

It is a lot of work and takes a very long time to get through. You also owe the Marine Corps a very very very long portion of your life so keep that in mind. The contract for fixed wing pilots is 8 years from the date of your winging. I was in the Marine Corps for 3 years and 11 months when I winged. So, essentially, the Marine Corps will own me for at least 12 years before I get the opportunity to make a choice for myself again.

[djj34]

It is a lot of work and takes a very long time to get through. You also owe the Marine Corps a very very very long portion of your life so keep that in mind. The contract for fixed wing pilots is 8 years from the date of your winging. I was in the Marine Corps for 3 years and 11 months when I winged. So, essentially, the Marine Corps will own me for at least 12 years before I get the opportunity to make a choice for myself again.

This... emphasis mine... is HUGE. This is not just limited to jet guys. I'll be at 3 years and 4 months when I wing in August. My commitment will also be 8 years starting on August 14. My wife uprooted a very great financial career that she was very good at, and will be at the USMC's whim until 2023. Now she's lucky to work in a local mom and pop post office... thankfully she likes it a lot.

If you know you can do it, then great. I don't think this career field is something to go about beating around the bush or do half-heartedly. It'll question the most determined individuals out there. You need to go all in or go home.

I'm not even trying to be rude about it, it's just the simple truth. This is one of the few MOS schools where you can get yourself and others killed - very quickly - if you don't know your **** in and out. Students can and do get hurt or killed even with an instructor riding along. Just imagine thinking three-dimensionally at 3-10 miles per minute and a few minutes into the future. It's a skill that'll come along


UMD, please enjoy Miramar for me! I'm a CA native, but I'm asking for Oki.

[evandille]

Thank you so much for sharing the info!!! So sorry it took me so long to respond, I haven't checked this website in forever.

I always knew that if I was a pilot I would want to be in a fighter, so what you are doing is suuuuuupppppper cool to a guy like me. Sounds super hard- but sounds super worth it at least to me.

Good luck to you and your buddies, I have alot of respect for you guys and that is part of the reason I want to be a Marine so badly.

Thanks again!