Lt.Col. gettin' Carpet
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  1. #1

    Thumbs down Lt.Col. gettin' Carpet

    The Lt. Col. who was almost court-martialed for "Assault" now get's, officer hours......What in the world is goin' on here?
    I would like to take a poll, make a poll, of how many Marines agree, disagree with this decision.
    IN my opinion.....This man was attempted to be used as a "GOAT" to show the Iragi's, we are a civil military? WAR IS WAR. And I would've done the same thing, maybe worse, if that is what it takes to get information from a dirt bag coward enemy.
    The pressure put on by the "Liberal Press" this time, did some good. He should be given a medal.
    In the Nam I heard of stories where some POW'S were accidently tossed out of an aircraft if they didn't talk.
    Wrong? I don't know.
    In the Lt. Col's case.....He was right in my book. They are fighting with not enough man power, and until S. Hussein is caught they will continue to be attacked and if anyone can extract information from a known terrorist, go for it.
    There is no such thing in "WAR" as bein' nice. You're there to take out any/all enemy by any means.
    And what type of interrogation methods are being used in Cuba and other places to extract information? By the CIA and others?
    Let me know what ya think.


  2. #2
    I agree to a point. I don't think I would of let four soldiers beat him sensless before firing the pistol. In effect he put those young soldiers at risk of being court martial . But you know what he did what he had to do and he got the job done. He save lives and that's what counts the most. Screw the libral press, they are a Menace to society .


  3. #3
    Marine Free Member jinelson's Avatar
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    I agree with you 100%. I also heard the same Vietnam interogation stories as you. I actualy witnessed ROK Marines interogate VC its very brutal but they seemed to succeed quickly and accomplish their mission. God bless em, its war.

    Semper Fi
    Jim


    Many are called but few are chosen!!!


  4. #4
    Marine Free Member mrbsox's Avatar
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    Truly a tough call to make a decision on this issue.

    I was not there. I don't know exactly HOW it was done.
    I do not have ALL of the facts of WHY he felt it necessary.
    I have to make decisions on what I believe, and know.

    We all know that his actions saved lives, and I AM grateful for that. We all know that this type of thing happens in war, it gives you an advantage.

    We also know that this is the exact same type of treatment that we are trying to free these people from. By agreeing with the Lt. Colonels actions, are we saying that it is OK to treat people this way, when it suits our purpose ??

    Just as I would defend some a$$ holes right to burn MY flag, or to free speech, or freedom of religion, I must also defend the right of an Iraqi (or other) against 'cruel and unusual treatment', no matter how hard it is.

    To me, 'liberty and justice for all' means everybody, all the time. 'JUSTICE' is not open to debate; it either is or isn't.

    That said, I've left myself open for ridicule and 'incoming'. So be it... the Nation and Constitution I love says 'the people' have these God given rights.

    Who am I to take them away ??

    Terry


  5. #5
    firstsgtmike
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    The only comment I have is that we cannot force our bible on another culture. We cannot force our Constitution on another culture.

    In ANY contest, if they refuse to play by OUR rules, we must play by theirs, or else we will LOSE.

    I am willing to take anyone on, in any contest they choose. But we will play by MY rules, and I will tell them what they are, when the "game" is over, and explain to them why they lost.

    Replay? No problem. Same deal, only the rules have changed.


  6. #6
    My opinion has always been:
    War is War!! Why are there rules??


  7. #7
    Registered User Free Member jfreas's Avatar
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    mrbsox I believe "liberty and Justice for All" was meant for those living here in our Country. The LtCol saved lives without taking one.BFD, ya think that shot would have missed if it was the other way around. As the saying goes "War is Hell". Rules we don't need no stinking Rules.


  8. #8
    Marine Free Member mrbsox's Avatar
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    Well said by ALL.

    WAR IS HELL
    I cannot say, because I have not personally been there (thanks to you that have been ) But I know that it is.

    Why are there rules??
    Because 'civilized' man is trying to protect himself from HIS OWN creation. WAR !!

    ya think that shot would have missed if it was the other way around
    Probably not. But is that not one of the things that makes US civilized ??

    Let me continue to walk the tight rope here.

    What the Lt. Col. did was:
    Protect his troops
    Complete his mission

    EXACTLY what he should have done. EXACTLY what I would hope ANY commander would have done. AND, HE did it himself, not passing the task on to someone else, to take the fall if something came out later (like it has). THIS was also protecting his troops.

    He is now taking responsibility for his actions.

    These are OUR rules he is being charged with, NOT NATO or the UN. And I have no doubt that he knew the consequinces (sp).

    My hat is off to the Commander for his actions, and my heart is sorry for the Man that has lost his career.

    But none of that changes the fact that WE are liberating these people from that kind of life, and it was wrong.

    I too would have probably done something similar, if not the exact same thing, given the same situation. And I would have done it, for my troops, my mission, AND knowing it was wrong.

    Terry


  9. #9
    firstsgtmike
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    It's over.

    Col. West, in NJP was fined $5,000 and will be allowed to retire on schedule with full benefits.

    Right or wrong, once the publicity hit, SOMETHING had to be done.

    Why did it get so far? I don't know. Perhaps as a lesson to others to "cool it" if it appeared that such tactics might get out of hand.

    Perhaps to gain the moral "high ground" and the right to point fingers at the other side.

    In this report of the final decision, I learned two things which MAY have influenced the charges;

    1. Col. West watched as four of his soldiers beat the prisoner about the head and body.

    2. The Colonel was so angry, he didn't know how many shots he had fired.

    I would have felt better about this whole thing, IF, calm, cool, and collected, he did what he felt necessary to get the job done.

    Under the given circumstances, in his anger would he have killed the prisoner if the prisoner had failed to respond?

    The moment of judgement should be dispassionate, or, if anything, with a sense of compassion. Emotion, pro or con, should never be a significant factor in a judicious rendering.


  10. #10
    Strange---"he did right"---"he did wrong"---he did "do or die." His action saved lives---the lives of our troops---what was there to question?

    What is this "rights" bullshi* about when you are ingaged in combat?


  11. #11
    Taking care of the troops is an officer's--Marine officer's, anyway--primary responsibility. The Col. did that and his commander didn't back him.
    I have an idea. If all of us who signed the online petition (130,000 or so) send him a dollar, it'll make up for the $5,000 he was docked and not hurt us at all.


  12. #12
    firstsgtmike
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    A Message of Thanks from Lt. Col. West

    Thanks to SFTT and DefenseWatch for your support. I can tell you that I am pleased with this outcome and give God the glory in resolving this case.

    I do not know about my return to the United States and have no assigned duties in the Division. Thanks to modern technology my former soldiers know of the outcome and I have received some e-mails of relief and congratulations. My retirement date should be in the Spring '04.

    I am sorry to be departing from the Army, but that is an inevitable that would have come. It has been my sincere honor to have served America and with the fine men and women of the 4th Infantry Division and truly over my twenty years with the Army.

    I have lived a soldier's life and now move on to a new mission which God will reveal. My desire is to teach high school in Broward Country, which is where my wife, Angela, has received a promotion from her company.

    I am thankful to the many Americans that took time to show their support and encouragement for me. We truly live in the greatest nation on Earth, and I am proud to be an American and to have been an American soldier. God Bless.

    -- Al West, Lt. Col. USA


  13. #13
    I'm always truly amazed by the comments made by the members here. Intelligent, forethcoming, meaningful. It was great to read them all. First Sgt Mike has posted the ending. Let it be. Let's hope we can get the job done, give the Iragi people freedom and get out of there. Semper-Fi, Merry Christmas to all.


  14. #14
    Registered User Free Member Doc Crow's Avatar
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    Adds a whloe new meaning to getting the shaft


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