Verifying Service
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  1. #1

    Verifying Service

    We have two members of our local detachment who have given conflicting accounts of their ranks and service dates. Having done color guards with both, it's obvious that their knowledge of the manual at arms is very limited. One and some drinking buddies brought in the other. Both wear sergeant's chevrons on dress blues with no ribbons or marksmanship medals. Since they were brought into the league locally and didn't provide 214's to national, is there any way of verifying their rank and dates of service?

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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by MAG266165 View Post
    ... Since they were brought into the league locally and didn't provide 214's to national, is there any way of verifying their rank and dates of service?
    In short order, you have two options. The first is to do a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to verify for yourself. The second is to utilize process for ineligible members in the Marine Corps League.

    Personally, I might consider the FOIA request and then pursue the grievance process depending upon the outcome of the FOIA request. That will take considerable more time than proceeding straight to internal process in the Marine Corps League; however, it may help mitigate some unnecessary drama if your suspicions are unwarranted.

    FOIA request - The first question is whether their service would have ended 62 years or more ago. After 62 years, the Official Military Personnel Files (OMPF) become archival and considerable more information is available to the general public (there is also a "copy fee" for archival records). Complete a Standard Form 180, Request Pertaining to Military Records and mail it to the National Personnel Records Center or fax a completed Standard Form 180 to the National Personnel Records Center. You may also request archived OMPFs online.

    Ineligible MCL members - Article 6, Section 625 of the National Bylaws govern this matter. In a nutshell, you can initiate the process by submitting, in writing, the reason(s) you feel they do not meet the membership qualifications to be Regular Member to your Detachment Commandant (who shall require the Judge Advocate to make a "careful" investigation into the charge).


  3. #3
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    Thread closed.
    You need to fill out your profile John.
    These are Forum Rules.

    Once completed, you can PM me or any Squad Leader to re-open your thread.

    Thank you.



  4. #4
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    Thread re-opened.

    That was fast !!!

    Thank you Doc and welcome to the forum Brother.

    Semper Fi,
    Rocky



  5. #5
    These individuals have placed themselves in a position where they have to refute their own statements. Somehow, two of them have even gotten into the dogs. National has trimmed their sails to some degree on a procedural issue but as long as probable posers are running the show, recruitment of new members has become badly handicapped. This is really galling to me because we have a higher than average number of retired Marines in the area due to our proximity to a large base and those known to me from other veterans organizations avoid the detachment. In terms of retention, retired Marines and combat veterans are the types who have switched to M-A-L status. At the present time most officer positions in that detachment remain unfilled due to a lack of candidates. To his credit, a former commandant has sought the return of those who have left to take these positions, but without success. In my humble opinion, the only way to clean up this mess is by revealing the actual content of DD214's, if such even exist. Meeting "Marines" who are not proud enough of their official service to reveal it is a new experience.


  6. #6
    Be glad you're not down here in Florida, the posers are everywhere. Once I met up with some Nam Knights motorcycle guys that I knew and their leader who I've known for about 5 years told me we've got a new guy Nam Marine with us now. I strolled over to ng and asked where he'd been. He told me that he went to PI. When I said I went to PI he then said he was transferred to SD to finish boot camp and was then sent directly to the Nam. He said he was in 2nd Batt. I said of what and he said 1st Div. When I asked of what regiment, what outfit and where he had been he just looked at me.

    Without thinking I then told everyone that was there that a Nam Marine may forget his mothers name, but he'd never forget who he served with and his brothers. I then apologized to the head guy for calling his new guy out and he said I simply said what it is, no problem. Saw the NK's a couple months later and they said the "Marine" was no longer with them. I don't try and seek them out, they're everywhere and seem to come forward on their own.


  7. #7
    I am a Judge Advocate for my Detachment, and I have been confronted on more than one occassion with ""posers" who are applying for membership in the MCL, and "posers" who are currently in the membership.

    Article 5; Section 540-Members; Ch 15-09; BL 5-2 deals with this issue. It also outlines what is to be done in Section 600-Membership elegibility.

    Special attention is to be paid to Ch 2-96 Section 625; BL-6. Ineligible Members as pointed out in an earlier post. However the post did not go far enough for clarification purposes IMO; so I reviewed the article again and what was left off; was ""If a careful investigation has been made, and it is determined that the member does not have the necessary qualifications, said member will be dropped from the rolls immediately. Proper notice of such action and the reasons therefore SHALL be expediited to the jurisdictional Department and National Headquarters. A copy of this notice will be mailed to the person(s) removed from the rolls by Certified Mail; return recipt requested.

    My note; the Detachment Judge Advocate is charged with the investigation, and the documentation to be provided.

    It is simply not true that someone can't be removed from the MCL. The National Commandant and his Officers are fully behind removing posers.

    Hope this helps.

    Semper Fi!


  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by advanced View Post
    When I said I went to PI he then said he was transferred to SD to finish boot camp and was then sent directly to the Nam. He said he was in 2nd Batt. I said of what and he said 1st Div. When I asked of what regiment, what outfit and where he had been he just looked at me.
    BOLD: Laughable...that was quite the tap dance he was doing.
    Can't imagine being a poser and having to dig my way out of my own abyss of bull sh!t to those around me.

    Carry on....


  9. #9
    The JA route has already been tried on one of these individuals but the person occupying that position at the time is a close friend and drinking buddy of the subject. He claimed that the 214 he viewed listed sufficient qualifying experience but two officers who were present when the individual was admitted to membership have stated that they never saw a 214. Claimed service consists of being dropped from OCS after 23 days with no prior enlisted service. According to the officer recruiter questioned, a DD214 for this individual may not even exist. In fact, when he heard about this member wearing sergeant's chevrons and a good conduct ribbon, he offered to "come over and kick ass." At any rate, the JA's position in this detachment remains unfilled as is the case with most other officer assignments.

    On a positive note, a group of us who are former officers of that detachment have formed our own social circle which is fun and a lot less stressful. As I looked around the table of this group at a social gathering last night, I couldn't help but remember that not long ago these Marines had been the most productive members of that detachment. The real loser here is the league and its image in this area.

    Semper Fi!


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MAG266165 View Post
    The JA route has already been tried on one of these individuals but the person occupying that position at the time is a close friend and drinking buddy of the subject. He claimed that the 214 he viewed listed sufficient qualifying experience but two officers who were present when the individual was admitted to membership have stated that they never saw a 214. Claimed service consists of being dropped from OCS after 23 days with no prior enlisted service. According to the officer recruiter questioned, a DD214 for this individual may not even exist. In fact, when he heard about this member wearing sergeant's chevrons and a good conduct ribbon, he offered to "come over and kick ass." At any rate, the JA's position in this detachment remains unfilled as is the case with most other officer assignments.

    On a positive note, a group of us who are former officers of that detachment have formed our own social circle which is fun and a lot less stressful. As I looked around the table of this group at a social gathering last night, I couldn't help but remember that not long ago these Marines had been the most productive members of that detachment. The real loser here is the league and its image in this area.

    Semper Fi!
    There is still a recourse for you and the other members which is covered under Administrative Procedures, Chapter Nine, Greievance and Discipline. AP9-1 &2; Ch-16-10, (c)Grievance; (d) Disciplinary Charges(e) rules of evidence or procedure and (f) burden of proof.

    My suggestion would be to make a written notice to the Detachment Commandant; who will then direct it to the Department Judge Advocate since you stated that there is no Detachment Judge Advocate.

    The reality is that the League as a whole is the loser because no one has stepped forward to correct this problem, and that would include you and your friends. If you feel that you have been wronged, then I suggest that you do what is necessary to right the wrong. You will find, that the Marine Corps League will listen to your grievance especially when it comes to posers. It is not an overnight process, but the process works effectively even if it results that you may not like.

    If I can help you; please let me know. Nothing I hate more than a Marine Poser.

    Semper Fi!


  11. #11
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    Mitch,
    That's great of you to help Doc out with this issue.
    Brothers helping Brothers.

    From me to you , Thanks for stepping up.

    Semper Fi,
    Rocky



  12. #12
    Thanks Rocky for the kind words. I'm glad to try and help Doc, as well as others who are having a problem in the Marine Corps League. Unfortunately, I have been involved with posers more than I want to, but fortunately there is a remedy.

    One of the humorus one's was when a poser (who was applying to become a member) asked a Captain who served two(2) tours in NAM where he went to boot camp, and the Captain said Quantico. The poser then said; what's that?

    The Captain, cooly and politely said "It's in Texas, close to the Mexican Border"

    Semper Fi! Glad to have you back...

    Mitch


  13. #13
    Mongoose
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    Mitch, that's actually referred to as El Quantico, by us Texans. They have some great Taco's there. Made with real cat meat.


  14. #14
    Thanks for the advice Mitch, At trhis time there is no detachment commandant. Our group consists of mainly retired Marines, including one Master Guns. Most of us were senior detachment officers who tried to work within the system and when this failed, we voted with our feet. We have indeed made attempts to manage the problem but a district officer has told us that "anyone with one day of active duty is a Marine" (in his opinion). The expressed attitude of the main poser it that that individual has become so important to the MCL that they can't be removed, regardless of service. The situation came to a head when one of our members who is a 100% combat disabled Marine and Vietnam vet told the main individual in private conversation that under the circumstances he could not salute that person without proof of service. He was summarily suspended from the league by the state commandant and a hearing on appeal by district suspended him for two years. During the process, MCL timelines for due process were labeled as only "advisory" and no effort was made to follow them. Further appeal to the national JA resulted in a dismissal of the entire case against the actual Marine "with prejudice," so at least there's still some integrity at the top levels of the league.

    Through a series of one candidate elections (a second candidate being added after the detachments had already voted), senior league positions have become occupied by a character with powerful friends who has stated to the writer and others on more than one occasion, that the individual was never a Marine. This entire issue has made both the local detachment and the state department look ridiculous and has cost us the services of many of the league's most productive members at both levels. Sometimes Bravo Sierra is its own reward.


  15. #15
    Guys, I don't want to beat this to death, but the one enduring lesson for me, is that the Marine family will survive regardless of adversity. It may assume a different form, but it will continue to exist and Marines will go on supporting each other as long as even only two continue to exist. Semper Fi!


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