M14 to m-16

[Devyn edwards]

This question is more for the marines who served before and during the vietnam war. How did you feel about having to switch from the m14 to the m16? Its my understanding that many were trained with the m14 but were handed m16's in vietnam, and the earlier m16 jammed due to lack of cleaning? (correct me if im wrong)

Thank you

[irpat54]

personally i hated the m-16, i much preferred my m-14, the round was heaver and did not have the drifting problem of the 5.56mm (.223) plus being an 0331 if the butt-plates (0311) needed rounds they could come to me because just about every one carried rounds for the Machine gun

[Devyn edwards]

You didnt find the m14 and its ammo to be a lil heavy? that seems to bo a common excuse of why it was replaced for the lighter m16

[irpat54]

well the big reason was the length it was longer, wait wise didn't make that big a thing for me, hell i cried the M-60 so the m-14 was real light to me,,lol after i became a team leader, but i liked the kinetic energy,(knock down power)

[Devyn edwards]

Lol im sure after an m60 a rifleman cant complain, do you think the m14 should have been modified (shorter barrel and stock, e.t.c) before it was totally replaced as an infantry rifle? It just seems like one of those rifles that everyone loved but did little to make it suitable for the type of environment they fought in

[m14ed]

You didnt find the m14 ,
and its ammo to be a lil heavy? ,
that seems to bo a common excuse of why ,
it was replaced for the lighter m16


do you think the m14 should have been modified ,
(shorter barrel and stock, e.t.c)

It just seems like one of those rifles that everyone loved ,
but did little to make it suitable for the ,
type of environment they fought in

Your questions make sense , youngster. BUTT.

Enlisted ranks don't make the big money decisions.

somebody upstairs thought the ARmalite 15 ? was a fine civilian weapon.

and at the time,, America was investing a few more people in the fields and

mountians of vietnam, (also Jungle canopy in places Three layers thick)

The US GUBMINT deemed the 5.56 cartridge to be AMPLE for use by

American troops in conditions anywhere in the world.

They adopted it, and sent it to the field with all the troops in "Popular Places"

OF course, they thought it was "SELF CLEANING"

and didn't have cleaning kits manufactured for the rifle.

and they CHANGED the POWDER

Didn't test it, and shipped it off to the dummies who were shooting and dying behind those little pieces of "LITTLE BLACK DEATH"

some of the additional thinking behind the rifle was that it is easier to train people to shoot rifles that don't recoil as much..

kids don't flinch as much. Maybe on that , they had a point.

YUP,, some of us loved our M14's MY Favorite piece of - HEAVY JUNK !

[chulaivet1966]

I'll chime in....IMO.

February 1966: While heading to Nam from P.I. I (we) test fired the M16 on from the fantail of the USS Princeton LPH-5 when it was being introduced/tested.
Felt like a Mattel toy and I didn't like it along with the fact it was new and unproven in the field.
Hell...IIRC...even the M14 (although not totally new) had little tenure as a combat rifle at that time.

Me...I was glad to keep the 11# M14 with it's 7.62 stopping power and field durability.
Like others who may feel the same I've scrubbed rust off that weapon more than once and it just always worked and felt solid.
I still remember the 3 main groups and would love to hold one of those now.

M16 much lighter, shorter barrel for ease in tight sh!tuations, higher muzzle velo., etc.
I didn't care and was glad to keep my M14.
So....in honor of....


Carry on....

[irpat54]

i also like the fact that it was a common round, everything fired it,, until the m-16, made it's entrance.

[Devyn edwards]

Im just sayin it seems like units now really found a way to keep the m14 emploted, units like the navy seals are still useing it as a sniper rifle. I think even before they really got into all the modifications of the m14 E.B.R units in SOCOM liked working with it as a regular battle rifle

[SGT7477]

Marine generals thought with the M16 and being able to carry more rounds they would have more fire power,Semper Fidelis.

[Apache]

M-1 was initial weapon, also trained on M-14 during boot .
Weapons were precise and worked well.

Some politician choose the Matty Matel M-16 and we lost people because of it.

Give me a Battle rifle any day.

While in country I was with units where the weapon carried was a local discretion item.
Very few M-16 s came along for the hikes

[chulaivet1966]

M-1 was initial weapon, also trained on M-14 during boot .Some politician choose the Matty Matel M-16 and we lost people because of it. Very few M-16 s came along for the hikes

Brother Apache...hope all is well with you.

Yes we did and to this day it pains me to think of it. (bold)

Hmmm...I seem to recall using the M14 in boot also and getting issued the M1 at ITR.
I'm a bit blurry on that at this moment.

I was off to CONUS on 3/14/67 so I'll only guess the M16 started getting issued during that year.

Carry on....

[DWG]

Kennedys' boy geniuses fell in love with the AR15/M16 concept and so it came to be. We test fired with of AR-15s at Geiger in October of 68. Out of four cases, 3 rifles DIDN'T jam! We were not impressed. My opinion, bad powder mix, interchangeable parts were not as forgiving as an M-14 (I know one Viet Vet who said he marked his reciever and bolt; worked valve grinding compound through it and never let them get separated again; don't know if this is true). Heard a lot of stories of dead Marines with weapons (AR-15) broken down to clear jams.

BTW; Devyn, Marine is always capitalized when referring to USMC personnel.

[ddoug7619531]

yes ,but m16 look like a toy

[Apache]

Brother Chu Lai
Always good to hear from you----

We had the M1 most of the way through boot
Somewhere around qual time we changed to the 14 s

Later was the good times-- carry whatever you could get your hands on .