Marine Killed By Deputy in Orange Co. - Page 2
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  1. #16
    makes you wonder,,, you see in the dark,, a very large Man getting into his suv,, the police draws his gun and starts screaming to get out of the car and on the ground,, that gets the kids scared and screaming,, the deputy gets nervous and the whole thing spirals out of control,,, and if the gate was normally open he might have just been tooling through there and crashed the gate before he new what happened,, just saying something ain't right here

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by irpat54 View Post
    makes you wonder,,, you see in the dark,, a very large Man getting into his suv,, the police draws his gun and starts screaming to get out of the car and on the ground,, that gets the kids scared and screaming,, the deputy gets nervous and the whole thing spirals out of control,,, and if the gate was normally open he might have just been tooling through there and crashed the gate before he new what happened,, just saying something ain't right here



  3. #18
    well i'm just thinking,, cos it happened to me but with a little different spin,, when me and my first wife were home on leave,, in my Red and Black 69 fast back,, i had stopped cos i hear a noise in the front of my car,, so i got out to check it

    as i was getting back in my car, one foot in and the other out,, there were two cop cars that pulled up front and back,, of us,, and one said freeze so i froze the other said get down,, so i started to do that and the other got who said freeze got nervous i guess, and i heard the hammer cock back,, my wife was yelling at the cops to calm down,, one cop yelling get down the other to freeze and no one could make since of the whole thing

    after they had cuffed me and stuffed me,,( as sheriff coltrain would say) i found out that my car was just like the one used in a arm bank robbery,, but the confusion was unbelievable,, and could have easily gotten out of hand,, i mean what if they had thought that my wife was in danger,, messy at times,,,

    and i am just saying maybe the officer made a mistake and thought he was a danger,, with all the confusion,, make me wonder a lot

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  4. #19
    Wouldn't it be great if this country of ours went back to operating by simple everyday plain old common sense?
    I think that's gone forever, though.
    I know i always try to give law Enforcement the benefit of the doubt,, but in this case as in the case with me and my first wife,, things just don't add up as to what the union is trying to portray and what the Corps is saying about the man,,,

    and yes those days are gone for good,, to bad

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  5. #20
    ya but two things,, why after all these years that the gate was open,, was it closed,, and why wasn't the cop cam in the car running,,,

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  6. #21
    Orange Co. SO is in "CYA" mode big-time! If this was a cut and dry "justified shoot," there would be nothing to hide! The biggest discrepancy is the lack of a police car video. If the situation went down like the officer has stated; ie: loud noise, early morning hours, behind a school, suspicious vehicle at the scene...... why was the video on the police car not activated? HELLO...... common sense should have told the officer to initiate the video! So far, there is absolutely no "reliable" reason there was not a video! There are two sides to every story, and I'm sure we'll never know the exact reason(s) this happened the way it did. The Marine was killed at the scene, so all we'll ever have is the officer's side of the story... and it's been changed at least twice since the initial reporting of the incident. This crap "I shot in fear of the lives of the children" doesn't cut it though! The kids were in the car... and shots were fired into the vehicle? That just "doesn't wash!" I've been in law enforcement for 30+ years and I am appalled at the actions taken by this officer to "stop the threat!"


  7. #22
    i agree,, like i said in earlier post,, when my first wife and i were stopped while we were both home on leave the confusion from two cops telling us to do two different things was massive,,, i can see how the Cop must have felt,, dark area,, big guy in a dark area,, the stress level must have been off the chart,, with us back in Michigan in 76 there was a armed robbery and my car a 69 fast back was like the one used in it, but still it was a mass of confusion

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by SGT RED View Post
    Orange Co. SO is in "CYA" mode big-time! If this was a cut and dry "justified shoot," there would be nothing to hide! The biggest discrepancy is the lack of a police car video. If the situation went down like the officer has stated; ie: loud noise, early morning hours, behind a school, suspicious vehicle at the scene...... why was the video on the police car not activated? HELLO...... common sense should have told the officer to initiate the video! So far, there is absolutely no "reliable" reason there was not a video! There are two sides to every story, and I'm sure we'll never know the exact reason(s) this happened the way it did. The Marine was killed at the scene, so all we'll ever have is the officer's side of the story... and it's been changed at least twice since the initial reporting of the incident. This crap "I shot in fear of the lives of the children" doesn't cut it though! The kids were in the car... and shots were fired into the vehicle? That just "doesn't wash!" I've been in law enforcement for 30+ years and I am appalled at the actions taken by this officer to "stop the threat!"
    You say you have 30+ years in law enforcement so I find your response somewhat confusing to me. First, are we even sure the vehicle was equipped with a video system? Even in this day not all police vehicles have video. Second, did you really turn on your video everytime you went to check something out or went on a call? There's usally video on traffic stops because it is automatically turned on with the lights. You can turn it on manually, but I really don't know of anywhere that does that for every call so I can easily see why there wouldn't be any available.

    Also I believe from what I've read that the deputy didn't know if the children were supposed to be with this suspect who was acting irrationally. Now I can see an argument being made for getting the children out when he was away from the car, but at the point where he is ignoring commands and putting the car in drive with them inside it's to late for the deputy at that point can't go back and fix that mistake. Also you say it like shooting into the car put the children at risk. It may very well have, but I don't believe any of us no the postioning of the children in the car, the suspect, and the deputy. It's very possible that the children were clear from the deputy's vantage point.

    Now I'm not saying that the shooting was a good shoot or a bad shoot. I am just wondering why you seem so willing to just make all these assumptions that the officer was wrong when 1. the investigation isn't complete and 2. you weren't there and in that deputys shoes. As a cop you gotta know how everyone is always so willing to assume the officer is in the wrong. I personally find it disappointing that another officer just assumes the same without even waiting for the investigation to be completed.

    Just food for thought. We recently had a case in my area where a father kidnapped his own children. The father is to have no contact with the mother or children, is known to be violent and mentally unstable. The mother calls the cops and they show up as the father is about to leave her home. He sees the cops, jumps in his truck, and against orders given by the officers on scene throws it in drive and takes off almost hitting someone as he does. The officers give chase and a pursuit ensues with speeds reaching above 100 mph. The father eventually wrecks out at over 100 mph with the children inside and not in any seatbelts. By the grace of God they survived, but the ending to that could have been very different. Now what if officers on scene would have had an oppritunity and had taken the suspect out before the chase even began?

    Now just assuming what has been said by the deputy is true (again I am assuming, not saying it is), put yourself in this his shoes. This man is acting irrationally and not obeying commands given by you. He has just crashed his vehicle thru a closed fence into a school. There are children in the car that you don't know if they are supposed to be there and they are crying. The suspect igores your orders and puts his vehicle in drive and begins to leave.

    My point is this. Let the investigation run its course before we tie this deputy (Who was also a Marine) to the stake and light the fire.


  9. #24
    supposed to be with this suspect who was acting irrationally
    we have one account of him acting irrationally,,and when you see a vehicle and are going to confront a suspect, you always turn your camera on to cover you own butt,,i would find it very hare to believe that an officer alone would be in a vehicle without a camera

    My point is this. Let the investigation run its course before we tie this deputy (Who was also a Marine) to the stake and light the fire.
    the police union started the weirdness by trying to demean the dead Marine,, which prompted something unheard of and that was the Commanding Officer for whom he was under to get involved,, to repudiate the claim made by the Union

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  10. #25
    Well, believe it. While all of our patrol cars do now have cameras. It wasn't very long ago that they didn't and we've always patrolled solo. I also still know of some places that have units w/o cameras. As for always turning it on, I can see the argument for doing it, but I don't and I'm not aware of anyplace that does require that. Different areas of the country do work differently though so I'm not arguing on wither it's a good idea. I'm just saying it's not that outlandish that there isn't video.We are required to have every contact recorded either on the on car camera or on our personal recorders. Somethimes things do happen so fast that the recorder isn't turned on. Also depending on the location there is no guarantee a in-car video would of even captured the event although it would capture the audio as long as the deputy was wearing the mic.


  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by boomer56328 View Post
    You say you have 30+ years in law enforcement so I find your response somewhat confusing to me. First, are we even sure the vehicle was equipped with a video system? Even in this day not all police vehicles have video. Second, did you really turn on your video everytime you went to check something out or went on a call? There's usally video on traffic stops because it is automatically turned on with the lights. You can turn it on manually, but I really don't know of anywhere that does that for every call so I can easily see why there wouldn't be any available.

    Also I believe from what I've read that the deputy didn't know if the children were supposed to be with this suspect who was acting irrationally. Now I can see an argument being made for getting the children out when he was away from the car, but at the point where he is ignoring commands and putting the car in drive with them inside it's to late for the deputy at that point can't go back and fix that mistake. Also you say it like shooting into the car put the children at risk. It may very well have, but I don't believe any of us no the postioning of the children in the car, the suspect, and the deputy. It's very possible that the children were clear from the deputy's vantage point.

    Now I'm not saying that the shooting was a good shoot or a bad shoot. I am just wondering why you seem so willing to just make all these assumptions that the officer was wrong when 1. the investigation isn't complete and 2. you weren't there and in that deputys shoes. As a cop you gotta know how everyone is always so willing to assume the officer is in the wrong. I personally find it disappointing that another officer just assumes the same without even waiting for the investigation to be completed.

    Just food for thought. We recently had a case in my area where a father kidnapped his own children. The father is to have no contact with the mother or children, is known to be violent and mentally unstable. The mother calls the cops and they show up as the father is about to leave her home. He sees the cops, jumps in his truck, and against orders given by the officers on scene throws it in drive and takes off almost hitting someone as he does. The officers give chase and a pursuit ensues with speeds reaching above 100 mph. The father eventually wrecks out at over 100 mph with the children inside and not in any seatbelts. By the grace of God they survived, but the ending to that could have been very different. Now what if officers on scene would have had an oppritunity and had taken the suspect out before the chase even began?

    Now just assuming what has been said by the deputy is true (again I am assuming, not saying it is), put yourself in this his shoes. This man is acting irrationally and not obeying commands given by you. He has just crashed his vehicle thru a closed fence into a school. There are children in the car that you don't know if they are supposed to be there and they are crying. The suspect igores your orders and puts his vehicle in drive and begins to leave.

    My point is this. Let the investigation run its course before we tie this deputy (Who was also a Marine) to the stake and light the fire.
    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...nty&id=8539913

    Read the above article - Shortly after the incident, this story came out in the news. Go to paragraph 9 "The entire incident was caught on the patrol car's dashboard camera."
    You've asked "Are we even sure the vehicle was equipped with a video system?" Who knows for sure? The stories have changed 2-3 times, but this article states there is a video! Your second question "Did you really turn on your video every time you went to check something out or went on a call? Absolutely! The camera was activated automatically whenever the blue lights were on, and my department's S.O.P. was to activate the camera system always where there were exigent circumstances. Even if we were out of view, the video would be recorded!

    In reference to shooting inside the vehicle, you state "It's very possible that the children were clear from the deputy's vantage point?" Clear…? Is there such a thing as clear when you shoot into an area the size of a vehicle compartment when there are children inside? Ever hear of a ricochet?

    Further, not once have I condemned the officer's actions, except for the fact that I have remarked about his ridiculous statement that he shot the driver out of fear for the lives for the children. If you remember, his first statement was that he was in fear for his own life! I have stated that Orange County SO is in a "CYA" (cover your a**) mode… and that's only because of the conflicting statements from them, the deputies, and the news articles. Incidentally, our S.O.P. mandates that a PIO (Public Information Officer) shall be the only representative from the agency to release information to the press. There should have been one, and only one, press release given until the facts were straight! Looks like there's a "dog and pony show" going on there now; that's why there is even more confusion as to the facts!

    And, as you say: FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Your very last sentence is "Let the investigation run its course before we tie this deputy (Who was also a Marine) to the stake and light the fire. No matter what the deputy did, whether his actions were honorable or not, he is, and always will be a Marine!


  12. #27
    The one question that keeps popping into my mind is this.

    If the cop fired because he was worried about the screaming kids. What were the kids screaming?

    "DADDY", "DADDY DON'T", "DADDY"... whatever is all I can think of.

    And I have to wonder if shooting that close to the children was prudent or not.

    It's just a crappy situation.


  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SGT RED View Post
    http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...nty&id=8539913

    Read the above article - Shortly after the incident, this story came out in the news. Go to paragraph 9 "The entire incident was caught on the patrol car's dashboard camera."
    You've asked "Are we even sure the vehicle was equipped with a video system?" Who knows for sure? The stories have changed 2-3 times, but this article states there is a video! Your second question "Did you really turn on your video every time you went to check something out or went on a call? Absolutely! The camera was activated automatically whenever the blue lights were on, and my department's S.O.P. was to activate the camera system always where there were exigent circumstances. Even if we were out of view, the video would be recorded!

    In reference to shooting inside the vehicle, you state "It's very possible that the children were clear from the deputy's vantage point?" Clear…? Is there such a thing as clear when you shoot into an area the size of a vehicle compartment when there are children inside? Ever hear of a ricochet?

    Further, not once have I condemned the officer's actions, except for the fact that I have remarked about his ridiculous statement that he shot the driver out of fear for the lives for the children. If you remember, his first statement was that he was in fear for his own life! I have stated that Orange County SO is in a "CYA" (cover your a**) mode… and that's only because of the conflicting statements from them, the deputies, and the news articles. Incidentally, our S.O.P. mandates that a PIO (Public Information Officer) shall be the only representative from the agency to release information to the press. There should have been one, and only one, press release given until the facts were straight! Looks like there's a "dog and pony show" going on there now; that's why there is even more confusion as to the facts!

    And, as you say: FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Your very last sentence is "Let the investigation run its course before we tie this deputy (Who was also a Marine) to the stake and light the fire. No matter what the deputy did, whether his actions were honorable or not, he is, and always will be a Marine!
    Agreed,, I hope things get cleared up soon,,, I feel for the family of the dead Marine and for the Deputy as well,, I can only imagine what is going through his head...

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

  14. #29
    An educational fund has been created for Loggins’ family by The Heritage of San Clemente Foundation and the San Clemente Chamber of Commerce. Contributions can be made through any branch of Farmer & Merchants Bank and donors can also mail their contributions directly to San Clemente Chamber of Commerce, c/o of Sgt. Loggins Childrens' Memorial Fund, 1100 North El Camino Real, San Clemente, Calif. 92672. Checks can be made out to: Sgt. Loggins Childrens' Memorial Fund. Contributions are not tax-deductible. For more information, email heritage@marinemoument.org.


    Read more: San Clemente Times - Deputy in Shooting ID d Friends of Marine Tell of Christian Man

    http://www.sanclementetimes.com/view...ance=eye_on_sc


  15. #30
    see this is what is driving me nuts here,, how is it that one person (Deputy) says he (the dead Marine) was acting strange,, but the whole community and the Base says he was a completely different person,,, this is the stuff that make me crazy,,,,,, er

    The Proud, The Few, The Constitutional Marine

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