Marine Corps 0311 vs. Army 11b?

[acparks14]

I honestly don't mean to bash on the Marine Corps in any way. The reason why I am asking this is because the Marine Corps has caught my attention and I just need to get some answers and/or clear some things up. I enjoy the Marine Corps values.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on anything, and any points you want to bring up please do so.

I am considering enlisting with either a UZ Recon contract or a 11x option 40 contract (Ranger). I have been training hard over the last 3 years for this. I have a 27:43 4 mile, can do 120 push ups in 2:00, 109 sit ups in 2:00, 18 pull ups, and am a proficient swimmer.

I was looking at the pros and cons of each branch and I found that all of the pros for the Marine Corps are INTANGIBLE such as more pride, commraderie, honor, discipline, etc. All of the TANGIBLE pros belong to the Army such as faster promotions, more opportunities for advancement, more funding, better equipment, more support, etc.

I also found that most of the things that Marines brag about either aren't true, can be disproved, or the Army could do better (correct me if I'm wrong). For example, Marines always say that they are the best marksman, they talk about having to shoot 500 yards down range and their standards are higher. But the Army shoots pop up and moving targets a lot more (which I find to be more useful for a combat situation) and the Army has won marksmanship contest for the last 11+ years in a row. Marines always say they are the first to fight. But the CIA, Air Force, Special Forces, and Rangers were in the middle east before a Marine stepped foot on Iraqi soil. The only way that statement is true is if you compare 0311 to 11b, MEUs can get there quick. But being there first doesn't mean you have the toughest battles. Marines always talk about being elite or tougher, I do not see this as the case. I would say they are probably tougher and more disciplined. But I don't think they are more elite, the Army receives very similar training, but use better equipment and have more support. Marines say that the Army has no standards and that's why there are so many Rangers, Snipers, and etc. But it is because they are a larger branch and are more funded, thus more positions are available.

Most Marines will say you need to want to be a Marine. They hold the title of Marine as the highest honor. But I could say everyone who enlist in the Army must want to be a Soldier. It is the same thing.

If you wanted to compare Boot Camp vs Ft. Benning, I would say they are similar. I would give Boot Camp the edge, but it is initial training and I don't think that a Marines career and honor needs to fall under a 13 week program that is designed for you to succeed. SOI and OSUT are practically the same, they learn the same tactics and marksmanship standards are the only real difference. But like I mentioned above just because you shoot farther doesn't mean you are a better marksman, I think the ability to proficiently shoot a moving target is just as important as being able to hit someone from 500 yards away.

So after SOI and OSUT they are relativly the same, only the Soldier has better equipment (tangible), and the Marine knows more about USMC history (intangible). The reason why I stress tangibles and intangibles so much is because I believe that having a better equipment and more support is going to keep me alive a lot better than knowing the date the Marine Corps was born or something random. I guess the real question for me at this point would be "Do I want to be promoted faster or do I want more pride?" I think at this point I would rather be a Marine.

Army Airborne is more effective than a standard 0311 in my opinion because airborne insertions can be done anywhere and can provide more of a shock to the opponent. Amphibious assaults are rarely done and haven't been used much since Vietnam. So I would rather be a Airborne Infantryman than a 0311 Rifleman. Plus I'm sure by the time someone makes it through Airborne school they have just as much pride, commraderie, and discipline as any Marine.

There really is no point in comparing Rangers and Recon or any other elite group. They are both effective and have nothing but first class personell.

So my question is what are some TANGIBLE benefits to being a Marine. Please don't say honor or anything like that, because that is intangible. Like I said at the top of this post. I really don't mean to bash on the Marine Corps, but I hear how great they are all the time and I can't find any real reason. It seems like propaganda from the Marine Corps Recruiting Department.

Also how much direct action combat do Recon Marines see

Thanks in advance and thanks to all veterans who have served our nation, nothing but respect for you.

[chulaivet1966]

I honestly don't mean to bash on the Marine Corps in any way. The reason why I am asking this is because the Marine Corps has caught my attention and I just need to get some answers and/or clear some things up. I enjoy the Marine Corps values.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong on anything, and any points you want to bring up please do so.

I am considering enlisting with either a UZ Recon contract or a 11x option 40 contract (Ranger). I have been training hard over the last 3 years for this. I have a 27:43 4 mile, can do 120 push ups in 2:00, 109 sit ups in 2:00, 18 pull ups, and am a proficient swimmer.

I was looking at the pros and cons of each branch and I found that all of the pros for the Marine Corps are INTANGIBLE such as more pride, commraderie, honor, discipline, etc. All of the TANGIBLE pros belong to the Army such as faster promotions, more opportunities for advancement, more funding, better equipment, more support, etc.

I also found that most of the things that Marines brag about either aren't true, can be disproved, or the Army could do better (correct me if I'm wrong). For example, Marines always say that they are the best marksman, they talk about having to shoot 500 yards down range and their standards are higher. But the Army shoots pop up and moving targets a lot more (which I find to be more useful for a combat situation) and the Army has won marksmanship contest for the last 11+ years in a row. Marines always say they are the first to fight. But the CIA, Air Force, Special Forces, and Rangers were in the middle east before a Marine stepped foot on Iraqi soil. The only way that statement is true is if you compare 0311 to 11b, MEUs can get there quick. But being there first doesn't mean you have the toughest battles. Marines always talk about being elite or tougher, I do not see this as the case. I would say they are probably tougher and more disciplined. But I don't think they are more elite, the Army receives very similar training, but use better equipment and have more support. Marines say that the Army has no standards and that's why there are so many Rangers, Snipers, and etc. But it is because they are a larger branch and are more funded, thus more positions are available.

Most Marines will say you need to want to be a Marine. They hold the title of Marine as the highest honor. But I could say everyone who enlist in the Army must want to be a Soldier. It is the same thing.

If you wanted to compare Boot Camp vs Ft. Benning, I would say they are similar. I would give Boot Camp the edge, but it is initial training and I don't think that a Marines career and honor needs to fall under a 13 week program that is designed for you to succeed. SOI and OSUT are practically the same, they learn the same tactics and marksmanship standards are the only real difference. But like I mentioned above just because you shoot farther doesn't mean you are a better marksman, I think the ability to proficiently shoot a moving target is just as important as being able to hit someone from 500 yards away.

So after SOI and OSUT they are relativly the same, only the Soldier has better equipment (tangible), and the Marine knows more about USMC history (intangible). The reason why I stress tangibles and intangibles so much is because I believe that having a better equipment and more support is going to keep me alive a lot better than knowing the date the Marine Corps was born or something random. I guess the real question for me at this point would be "Do I want to be promoted faster or do I want more pride?" I think at this point I would rather be a Marine.

Army Airborne is more effective than a standard 0311 in my opinion because airborne insertions can be done anywhere and can provide more of a shock to the opponent. Amphibious assaults are rarely done and haven't been used much since Vietnam. So I would rather be a Airborne Infantryman than a 0311 Rifleman. Plus I'm sure by the time someone makes it through Airborne school they have just as much pride, commraderie, and discipline as any Marine.

There really is no point in comparing Rangers and Recon or any other elite group. They are both effective and have nothing but first class personell.

So my question is what are some TANGIBLE benefits to being a Marine. Please don't say honor or anything like that, because that is intangible. Like I said at the top of this post. I really don't mean to bash on the Marine Corps, but I hear how great they are all the time and I can't find any real reason. It seems like propaganda from the Marine Corps Recruiting Department.

Also how much direct action combat do Recon Marines see

Thanks in advance and thanks to all veterans who have served our nation, nothing but respect for you.

You filled out your profile so I'll give the small benefit of my doubt.

How old are you?
Any military experience?

In my opinion...
Your post is more commentary of what seems to be you drawing your own preconceived perceptions, conclusions and merits of the differences between Army/USMC.
So, given my perception of your post your decision is something you should research personally and decide for yourself.
Sounds like you already know plenty to make your own educated decision.

That's my take.....good luck.

Carry on..

[m14ed]

You have read well young grasshopper. And at 15 years of age I doubt you have seen little of life other than around your parents.
Tell me the truth,, you really cant find an Army Site to ask questions on that gives live answers with real people who actually have done the job.
You are already sold on the advantage of enlisting U.S.Army.
You may want to consider one question while you grow older to enlist................
If all the military services recruiters , give out free bumperstickers.....................
Why is it , the U S Marine Corps , is most likely the sticker you will see most in your lifetime with your eyes open.............................................. .........................
(MarineCorps is way smaller than the USArmy & US Navy & US AirForce )
Pride, Is most likely the answer you will get from almost any Marine you question.
In what we have done, in the way we have done it, to the best of our ability.......

Learn more young man.
Dont ask us to convince you to enlist in anything.
Do your best with both eyes open, and nobody blowing $moke up your BungHole.

[iamspartacus]

I'm not going to say joining the Marine Corps is the right decision or joining the Army is the wrong decision. But I don't think you truly understand those "intangible" advantages of the Marine Corps you talked about. Sometimes discipline will keep you alive better than newer weapons.

[1stRad2671]

So how often does a large army unit actually do an airborne insertion?

Answer: almost never


There is a sort of force continuum when it comes to insertions. The easiest and safest means are always the first looked at ie by ground. Then you have by aircraft- 1. actually landing. 2. by rope ie still affixed to the aircraft - rappelling and fast rope. 3. Parachuting


The only people in the Army doing airborne insertions on mission on 'regular' basis are the special operator types. Same goes for the Air Force, Navy or Marine Corps.


The Marine Corps has probably done more amphibious ops than army infantry has done mass airborne insertions.

[m14ed]

I took this comment/quote from another string someplace here on the forums.
It sums it up better than I can and is well written.

"" I need help enlisting in the Marines! "" <<<< is the name on the thread/forum

"People ask me why I want to do it so bad, and even I have yet to come up with a certain answer."

I was visiting my dad before going to boot camp. He was with the 101st Airborne during Korea. He asked me why the Marine Corps instead of the Army. I paused a bit, thought about it, and simply replied, "Dad, if I am going to go in the military, I can't see joining anything but the best." He thought about it a minute (still see him. He always sat on the floor in front of the couch), stared at the floor a bit, and then looked up and simply said, "you're right."

When it is time for you to enlist,
Dont worry, you'll make the best decision to satisfy your feelings.

[thewookie]

If you wanted to compare Boot Camp vs Ft. Benning, I would say they are similar. I would give Boot Camp the edge,

Who are you again, a nobody, who hasn't been to either,,, who are you again?

[acparks14]

Who are you again, a nobody, who hasn't been to either,,, who are you again?

I knew this type of stuff would happen. Instead of getting real and legit answers people would rather get into a ****ing match. I understand that I haven't been in either. If I would have come onto the forums and said "I KNOW I CAN EASILY BECOME SPECIAL OPS" then I that would be an appropriate response.

[advanced]

I was looking at the pros and cons of each branch and I found that all of the pros for the Marine Corps are INTANGIBLE such as more pride, commraderie, honor, discipline, etc. All of the TANGIBLE pros belong to the Army such as faster promotions, more opportunities for advancement, more funding, better equipment, more support, etc.

Actually young nobody, what you call intangibles in the Marine Corps are quite tangible. They translate into our winning battles.

What you call tangible in the army translates into ........... Damn I forgot, just what do they translate into?

And don't be knocking 0311's boy, it takes a rare breed to stand on line with us.

[haebyungdae]

Hope this makes sense, kinda tired and its my bedtime lol

@Parks:

You got the response you got from people here because you don't understand things, whether Marine Corps or Army. The whole argument of tangibles and intangibles is stupid, especially when thought about so simply like you did yourself. This is due to your inexperience in either branches and because you lack an in-depth knowledge on the matter.

While things like honor, loyalty, esprit de corps, discipline, etc etc may be intangible, the Marines that I am proud to serve with and be associated with through this site are very tangible. The intangibles can't be ignored. Those intangibles are the foundation of us as Marines, the foundation of our culture and our ethos. Weapons can fail, equipment can fail, support systems can fail...anything that is an inanimate tangible can fail--when it comes to military equipment that is pretty likely..But,

The tangibles that we have are our fellow Marines and in a tough situation (wartime or peace) you'd be hard pressed to find one Marine fail another.

[GreenRam]

I'm almost at a loss for words for this. All I can say is it looks like you're sold on the Army, considering how you're coming here and trying to compare both branches (neither of which you have been in) and basically trying to convince yourself that everything Marine Corps is basically at the same level or not as good as the Army in one way or another. I can tell you right now, you don't know jack. The Marine Corps doesn't need people who can't go into bootcamp with a sense of faith in what they're getting themselves into. I've seen people who do and it disgusts me when they start complaining about the Marine Corps and how they "coulda, shoulda, woulda" done this or that. You either want it, or you dont. Everything you learn in the Marine Corps will follow you and will quite often benefit you, even after you get out.

As a wise retired Marine said at a baseball game a couple of days ago, "There's no such thing as 'was' or 'were' a Marine, I'm still a Marine". You tell me how many people from other branches have that kind of pride in what they did with themselves?

Yeah, go sign your Army contract.

[GreenRam]

Oh, and one more thing, the fact that when I get out after my honorable service time is over... my tangible benefit will be knowing that I served with some of the finest and most respectable men I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. I'd say that's more tangible lifelong benefit rather than knowing I got the latest, coolest and newest gear or M4 when I was in the Army.

You're young, you probably dont understand that sometimes the "tangible" benefits dont always seem so rewarding right away...some stuff comes in time. Overnight benefits? Yeah, that's a fake fairy tale.

I remember when I was 15...

[advanced]

GreenRam - Well said!

[Phantom Blooper]

Predator vs. Aliens

[chulaivet1966]

IMO....
The OP fails to understand that frequently it's the non-tangible aspects that can be the most important or profound when making a decision.
As in life.
It's *wisdom* not *knowledge* that reveals the non-tangible aspects.

Carry on....