Army considering dumping gay beret and ACU's
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  1. #1

    Army considering dumping gay beret and ACU's

    Yeah, unless you are SF or a Ranger, I think the beret is about as ghey as you can get. Most of the sojers I see wearing them look like French border guards posing as cigarette salesmen.

    ****
    Controversial black beret could get ditched



    A number of uniform changes are being considered, in part driven by the new Sergeant Major of the Army
    By Lance M. Bacon - Staff writer
    Posted : Sunday May 1, 2011 8:26:57 EDT
    The beret may be nearing the end of its 11-year run as the official Army headgear, Velcro is hanging by a thread, and three other key uniform changes are in the works or under consideration.

    The possibility of these changes are the result of Sergeant Major of the Army Raymond Chandler, who in one of his first acts in office, took it upon himself to ask soldiers what they would change about the Army Combat Uniform.

    Chandler says he is determined to be a “scout” for the Army secretary and chief of staff and a “voice in the Pentagon” for every soldier.
    When the Army’s top enlisted soldier took his initial findings to Chief of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey earlier this month, the chief told Chandler to “go out and get some more information.” In addition to base visits,

    Chandler sought feedback via an April 13 Facebook post. Soldiers, who expressed thanks that leadership is listening, provided 132 responses within a week.

    Chandler said he would take these findings to the Army Uniform Board, which meets in July. The board meets every six months. It relies on product demonstrations, open dialogue and informed decisions to rapidly design and distribute better products. All recommendations have to be approved by the Army chief of staff.


    Black beret’s days numbered? (May 2 issue)

    Several themes were consistent. None is likely to catch any soldier by surprise:

    • The beret is not a fan favorite. Many said they want the beret canned because “it serves no practical purpose.” Others were OK wearing the beret with the Army Service Uniform, but were adamant that its days with the ACU must come to an end.
    “The [ACU] signifies a uniform that should be worn in combat (or training for combat), yet a beret doesn’t even make the cut on the deployment packing list,” said Sgt. Maj. Tony James, an infantryman with 25 years in uniform.
    Such soldiers said patrol caps, with their ventilated sun protection, are more practical, simpler to wear and look better.

    • Velcro is “a huge mess” that does not hold up to normal wear and tear. It is a detriment to units that need to practice noise discipline in tactical environments, leading dozens to ask for “strong and quiet” buttons.
    In the words of Scott Seiersen, “The Velcro. Oh God, the Velcro ... I miss my BDUs.”
    Many also said name tapes should be sewn on to prevent the camouflage bacon strips that emerge. And speaking of camouflage …

    • Many respondents said the Universal Camouflage Pattern is “completely useless.” Benjamin Blacklock said he desires “a pattern that is useful on more than a couch.” Ramona Scheherazade Robles described the pattern as something she would find in the dollar bin of a fabric store. Andrew Wade Nunn was far less kind, saying, “Kill the ACU pattern and those who are responsible for its creation.”

    • Soldiers also called for stronger material in the ACU. Some said they have dealt with unexpected ventilation in the groin area too many times.

    • Asked to weigh in on the Service Dress Tropical Uniform, most respondents liked the white, short-sleeve shirt, but didn’t like the idea of wearing only three authorized ribbons. Soldiers largely thought they should wear all or none.

    Aside from the beret, the ACU issues will be addressed through two programs currently underway.

    Soldiers will see new and improved ACUs by year’s end. The collars will have less Velcro and are more comfortable. Cargo pockets will lose the Velcro and add an “extender button” for easier access and expanded carrying capability. The crotch also has been reinforced to reduce rips.

    The improved uniforms will be phased in as the current inventory is depleted, said Col. William Cole, project manager of Soldier Protection and Individual Equipment. Defense Logistics Agency has about a six-month stock of trousers and roughly a nine-month supply of coats.

    The second program will see three new camouflage patterns — a woodland variant, a desert variant and a “transitional” variant that covers everything in between. The Army on April 15 issued a request for proposal. Industry, which was anticipating this change since late last year, has 90 days to present solutions. The Army will then select five contenders: three from industry and two from the government. Wear and field tests will follow. If all goes as planned, production will begin by the end of 2012.

    UCP, the three-color pattern fielded in 2004, stands little to no chance of being selected, officials said.

    Cost is a key issue in regard to changing the beret policy, Chandler said. The board will consider the soldiers’ ability to purchase and maintain new headgear as it determines whether it is worth the benefit.

    Chandler would not give his own opinion of the beret, insisting instead on echoing the wants and needs of soldiers.
    Return to starch and polish

    Uniform components weren’t the only thing that soldiers gigged. Dozens spoke against the ACU’s appearance. Some called for the wear of Class A’s in garrison. Others longed for the days of starched uniforms and polished boots.

    “Let’s have a uniform that we can take pride in — one that doesn’t look like we just pulled it out of a duffel bag no matter how you wash or dry it,” said Mike Lavigne. “I really do miss the days of breaking starch and having shined boots. You could tell who cared about their appearance and who didn’t.”

    Master Sgt. Mark Wilder, a 25-year vet, said the change to the ACU was “a major contributor to the lost art of garrison leadership.”

    “I found more pride in my appearance when I wore a freshly pressed and starched uniform,” said Sgt. (p) Joseph Smiley, who has 11 years in service. “Now, we see so many soldiers, NCOs and officers that walk around here looking like rag bags because they just took their uniform out of the dryer and put it on. Where is the pride today? I love the Army and being among the NCO ranks, but some times I feel ashamed to be associated with some of my peers because of their appearance.”

    Sgt. Daniel Macomber was more to the point: “BDU = Best Damn Uniform. Joes in the Army don’t take pride in their uniform anymore. Shined boots and crisp straight lines.”

    That would be OK with Dwayne Uhlig, who told Chandler, “Just say the word. My BDUs and black boots are still polished and starched ready to go!”


  2. #2
    FoxtrotOscar
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    I seriously doubt that they even know what starched uniforms were..

    Much less that one guy with 25 years in.... NOT...


  3. #3
    Marine Platinum Member Zulu 36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxtrotOscar View Post
    I seriously doubt that they even know what starched uniforms were..

    Much less that one guy with 25 years in.... NOT...

    I knew a number of Army guys who took pride in their appearance. Admittedly, most were SF.


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    Why can't they just wear regular covers like every other branch?
    My dad was in when they wore BDUs, he always wore them with pride. He also got in trouble once for yelling at an active duty soldier for not ironing his BDUs, my dad was a reservist.
    Also, everytime I see an ACU, I think of spinach. I don't know why, but why can't they jsut wear the old BDUs?


  5. #5
    My dad was a soldier, he was more squared away than many of the Marines I knew. He had a sense of pride and esprit de corps that one doesn't really assosciate with the Army. He's the one that taught me how to polish boots. He would talk of how they used to smell like Brasso back in the days...The only thing I can knock him on was his big old moustache and long hair that he had in the 70s...I LOL when I see those pics.

    It's good to see than some folks long and wish to have standards.


  6. #6
    Anyone who wants to bring back cardboard starch jobs and black hooker boots, and is capable of being "a major contributor to the lost art of garrison leadership", should be given a desk job that gives them the least chance of interacting w other people on a daily basis.


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxtrotOscar View Post
    I seriously doubt that they even know what starched uniforms were..

    Much less that one guy with 25 years in.... NOT...
    I starched mine almost everyday. I won almost every inranks inspection I was in at Ft Campbell.


  8. #8
    I'll never forget something I read from Major Gene Duncan (RIP) USMC, Ret...

    "Starched utilities and spitshined boots are like a good coat of paint...they cover a lot of rust".

    While I did my share of that (because I wanted to) I always had that in the back of my head LOL


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Leprechaun View Post
    I'll never forget something I read from Major Gene Duncan (RIP) USMC, Ret...

    "Starched utilities and spitshined boots are like a good coat of paint...they cover a lot of rust".

    While I did my share of that (because I wanted to) I always had that in the back of my head LOL

    Then you did much better than the ex Marine in my unit. He could do neither very well but he was good at running his big mouth.


  10. #10
    Not ALL of us were stellar performers LOL. I've run into a few...every branch has 'em.

    I actually made some extra cash at PLDC (Did 3 years Army reserve, gulf war time period, no local USMC unit, 11B) spitshining boots and shoes for the sojers who didn't know how to.

    Always prided myself on my 'leathers' which I still wear in dress police uniform, looking like glass.


  11. #11
    I always thought it was very odd that we have the beret as our armies cover.. I mean...really... it's not intimidating at all.. it doesn't look good... doesn't seem like it represents us as Americans much at all... so what is it doing on one of our uniforms??


  12. #12
    Because the army Chief of staff at the time had 'beret envy' because he never got to be in a unit that had them. He convinced all and sundry the 'army' wanted it, when in reality, they didn't. But, being the Chief of Staff....he got his way. And the army has been stuck with it ever since.

    The original beret was something adopted by the SF guys in the very early 1960's as a way to set themselves apart from everyone else in the army. Naturally the brass HATED them and they were only unoffically worn...until JFK said they could (he was enamored of specops stuff in ALL forms). Well, that opened the door and other 'elite' units eventually started wearing them as well, mostly the Rangers and 82nd Airborne.

    Rangers ORIGINALLY wore the black beret, BTW. When 'done up' correctly, a beret doesn't look bad, but it's a completely UNfunctional piece of headgear.


  13. #13
    I think the beret should have remained utilized in the manner in which it originally served. It looks good on the SF, Rangers, and the 82nd. The 101st does not need them. We are the best conventional division the Army has and most of the world knows that. The 101st has been leading the fight in Afghanistan for years.


  14. #14
    shining boots was originally to make them water proof, but like everything else, its turns into a chest beating contest and service members put more time into treating a field uniform like a handmade suit, then training for war.


  15. #15
    Marine Platinum Member Zulu 36's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Leprechaun View Post

    Rangers ORIGINALLY wore the black beret, BTW. When 'done up' correctly, a beret doesn't look bad, but it's a completely UNfunctional piece of headgear.
    Lep is correct about a beret looking OK if done up properly. That meant cutting the liner out first - it will never lay correctly otherwise. Wash it in warm soapy water afterward, then you shaped it on your head, letting it dry on your head. When we got new guys, we'd steal their beret and cut the liner out for him. Then, first opportunity, we'd steal it again while he was peeing in the head and threw it into his urinal. Of course it would have to be washed out after that. Welcome to the outfit.

    I had two berets in Security Police. One that was salty as all get out (everyday wear), and one nicer for when I had to wear blues to something fancy. We never wore berets in the field as they stood out when you were trying to snoop and poop. A nearly black blob bouncing through the woods was very visible.

    Otherwise, they are completely useless as a cover.


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