Is Violence the Ultimate Authority? - Page 3
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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Goss View Post
    I remember reading in Sebastian Junger's "War" that one of the problems with creating any form of "national" governing authority was the distances between population centers and the inability to provide a form of federal (like we have) control over them because they were so spread out and with so many variations, I guess a result of tribalism. It seems like dealing with dozens of different city-states, each with their own nuances and separated by terrain that doesn't lend itself to cross country government monitoring or control. Having never been myself and never studied a current map, I can't say, but it seems to make sense and I think that's what you're sort of echoing (though I could be wrong).

    Some of your terminology is both fascinating and foreign to me, particularly "kinetic and non-kinetic environments", "the Law of Land Warfare", and "COIN".

    Also, you spoke of the defensive role of violence in the military's role in Afghanistan, though it's way off topic, how do Marines approach the offensive role of violence? Do you seek out enemies and set up situations to receive fire from targets so you can return fire or actively pursue/stalk known combatants and destroy them? I admit being vastly naive on this subject and am just curious as to how Marines go about the more proactive side of violence in an AO, if at all. (I also understand that this is probably too multifaceted a topic to really do justice but any input is, as always, greatly appreciated) As always, thank you for taking the time to read and/or answer. The point of view of the USMC is exactly what interests me in these matters, hence why I ask here.
    Be weary of getting into politics here. I understand you are having an informative discussion and your posts are well put together. Just know that this thread has appeared to be making a shift towards the political aspects of the war. Politics isn't a debate to be had in this section, as it most always ends badly.

    You're also getting into trying to learn about tactics used in an ongoing war. Just know that you're not going to get all of the answers that you're looking for. Some information, whether it's open source or not, just shouldn't be passed around on an open forum.


  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Covey_Rider View Post
    Be weary of getting into politics here. I understand you are having an informative discussion and your posts are well put together. Just know that this thread has appeared to be making a shift towards the political aspects of the war. Politics isn't a debate to be had in this section, as it most always ends badly.

    You're also getting into trying to learn about tactics used in an ongoing war. Just know that you're not going to get all of the answers that you're looking for. Some information, whether it's open source or not, just shouldn't be passed around on an open forum.
    Gotcha, thank you, Covey_Rider. I hadn't considered either of those points as being contentious or sensitive. I totally understand. I'd love to see anything that anyone is willing to share on the topic of tactics that isn't considered sensitive but absolutely respect the nature of the subject and how it can affect active service members. As for the politics, again I understand, I just didn't consider them to be wayward. But if they are then they are and I'll refrain.

    I try to let the conversation evolve naturally and just go wherever the inquiry leads me, but I will always respect the necessity for discretion.

    *I also realize that I can't get all the anwers I'm looking for, but anything is better than nothing. I'll take what I can get, as always.

    Last edited by Jonathan Goss; 03-11-11 at 04:47 AM. Reason: understanding, compliance, forgotten addition

  3. #33
    Few things more annoying than being pretentious just for the sake of displaying a way with words, with little real content.
    Move to Political Forum, where kierkegaard, who is the same way, can enjoy this. TheReservist, too, will be involved.
    Pseudo-intellectuals all.


  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by HarperJim View Post
    Few things more annoying than being pretentious just for the sake of displaying a way with words, with little real content.
    Move to Political Forum, where kierkegaard, who is the same way, can enjoy this. TheReservist, too, will be involved.
    Pseudo-intellectuals all.
    It's not that they're pseudo-intellectuals, it's just that they're pseudo.


  5. #35
    Without getting into specifics, guys pretty much walk or drive around until something, or nothing, happens....on a big map this lets flag officers say we have freedom of movement or presence in a certain area or district center.

    everyone is answerable to someone but, for the most part, commanders can determine how to enact the intent of their orders...meaning the specifics are largely up to them...until they are not. Its the military so anyone can be told to do stuff.

    Offensive operations, or direct action and targetting, is mostly done by SOF guys or Task Force. Regular grunt units typically try to maintain control of an area or objective....maintaining freedom of movement and presence of ISAF folks.

    COIN is a very common catch-phrase in the military and political realm...its counterinsurgency operations, spoken about quite often in the news. Kinetic and non-kinetic refer to combat. the Law of Land warfare is a document, you can goodle, pertaining to just what the title suggests. Again, Marine abide by the ROEs set forth by commanders obeying politicians' intent.


  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by HarperJim View Post
    Few things more annoying than being pretentious just for the sake of displaying a way with words, with little real content.
    Move to Political Forum, where kierkegaard, who is the same way, can enjoy this. TheReservist, too, will be involved.
    Pseudo-intellectuals all.
    You know, I once asked Steven Pressfield in an email about how to handle negative criticism. His reply: "**** 'em." So if you have nothing positive or informative to add, then **** you, HarperJim.


  7. #37
    I don't care if you like what HarperJim posted or not, you don't come onto a Marine Corps site and talk to a Marine like that.


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Goss View Post
    You know, I once asked Steven Pressfield in an email about how to handle negative criticism. His reply: "**** 'em." So if you have nothing positive or informative to add, then **** you, HarperJim.
    Jonathan that type of commentary can get you banned from here. Attacks on members are not taken lightly, especially by Marines

    It's obvious to me you're an educated individual. But for some reason you have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why nor do I care but if you're seriously thinking of enlisting in the Corps I'd suggest an attitude adjustment, for your own good. You won't be able to talk back to your DI's as you can here. Your freedom of speech ends at MCRD

    Mind if I ask why the Corps? Doesn't seem a good fit with your personallity


  9. #39
    Maybe you should take Steven Pressfield out on a date. Apparently he has all of the infinite wisdom in the world. I think the two of you are meant for each other, really. This is not the place to try and throw around any sort of machismo you think you have. Straighten up or get the hell out of here and choke on Pressfield's dick.


  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Goss View Post
    You know, I once asked Steven Pressfield in an email about how to handle negative criticism. His reply: "**** 'em." So if you have nothing positive or informative to add, then **** you, HarperJim.
    Kid - You obviously have not learned a damn thing about Marines. You have come on a Marine Corps site and you have disrespected a Marine simply because he thinks you're full of ****, which you are. You can read all the books you want and talk to all the Marines you want - and at the end of the day you will never understand Marines. Only Marines and our enemies understand Marines.

    You know, I once asked Mongoose in an email about how to handle negative criticism. His reply: "**** 'em." So if you have nothing positive or informative to add, then **** you, jonathan Goss. The black chopper should be here for you soon.

    P.S. Here's a positive lesson on Marines; **** with the best, die like the rest!


  11. #41
    And that just got someone a 2 week extraction.

    While on your time off, use it wisely and familiarize yourself with THE RULES OF THIS FORUM AND THIS SECTION.

    This will be your ONLY warning.

    Also, nothing was wrong with what was asked. If you don't LIKE a topic just on general reasons, fine. DON'T FRAKKIN RESPOND.

    This goes for ALL OF YOU.

    The only reason the remainder of you aren't being tossed for jackassery is because you are MARINES. But don't try my patience.

    Consider yourselves warned as well.


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