Boot Camp Then and These Days?

[SGT7477]

Looks like our beloved Marine Corps has gotten soft, my days in bootcamp were tough but that was 1974, Semper Fidelis.

[civgrunt05]

Then why do so many of today's Marines act like they went through a real boot camp? That one is tough to figure out.

Because some did. The pressure is coming from higher IMO. Some DI's I think still push the envelope off the cliff at the risk of their careers because they know it saves lives in the long run and preserves the tenacity of the Corps. Some do exactly as they are instructed.

Since I'm a reservist, I guess I don't appreciate the tendancy to follow the letter of the law when it comes to "being soft" because this really isn't my main career. If I get demoted for pushing the envelope or doing things "old Corps" style (not to say I'm in anyway belonging to the "old Corps") then guess what -- I still go back to my decent paying professional civilian career with the same opportunities as I had before.

I once had an officer chastise me for making some Marines dig fighting holes out in the cold after everyone was cut lose for various infractions like being late, not having a haircut, falling out of PT, etc. I had to go tell them to stop digging.

Guess what happened when Smucatelli stepped on his crank and the O wasn't around. "Wakey Wakey Sumcatelli. Grab your e-tool. We are going for a walk."

I personally think you garner as much or more respect as a Cpl. who was demoted for making a billegerent Marine take off his blouse and low crawl in a briar patch as you do as a Sgt. who wrote a negative counseling sheet on that Marine.

[Covey_Rider]

I noticed that changes while I was in. As other members have said, I was scared ****less when I got to the fleet. I kept my mouth shut and kept low. However I saw a progressive change throughout the new Marines that came in. Slowly but surely, they came to the fleet more and more cocky and thought they could do whatever the hell they wanted. We had to break the new guys down all over again and start from scratch. That ended up leading to multiple new Marines developing magical issues that would keep them from deploying. Pussies.

[Mongoose]

I noticed that changes while I was in. As other members have said, I was scared ****less when I got to the fleet. I kept my mouth shut and kept low. However I saw a progressive change throughout the new Marines that came in. Slowly but surely, they came to the fleet more and more cocky and thought they could do whatever the hell they wanted. We had to break the new guys down all over again and start from scratch. That ended up leading to multiple new Marines developing magical issues that would keep them from deploying. Pussies.

That just shows that what once was our greatest attribute, disciplin, is on its way out. Ive been looking for my platoon commander for years. I want to thank the man for being a brutal azzhole.

[Rocky C]

Please don't tell me that my Marine Corps turned into a kinder, gentler place!!!

Our DIs were tough and hard as nails....and would not pass up the chance to kick the crap out of any recruit who screwed up.

The mothers of America need to leave the Corps alone and let it revert back to what it was. The training, while tough, saves lives... and I will believe that to the day I die.

.

Well said.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

Parris Island 1977.

[Old Marine]

Because some did. The pressure is coming from higher IMO. Some DI's I think still push the envelope off the cliff at the risk of their careers because they know it saves lives in the long run and preserves the tenacity of the Corps. Some do exactly as they are instructed.

Since I'm a reservist, I guess I don't appreciate the tendancy to follow the letter of the law when it comes to "being soft" because this really isn't my main career. If I get demoted for pushing the envelope or doing things "old Corps" style (not to say I'm in anyway belonging to the "old Corps") then guess what -- I still go back to my decent paying professional civilian career with the same opportunities as I had before.

I once had an officer chastise me for making some Marines dig fighting holes out in the cold after everyone was cut lose for various infractions like being late, not having a haircut, falling out of PT, etc. I had to go tell them to stop digging.

Guess what happened when Smucatelli stepped on his crank and the O wasn't around. "Wakey Wakey Sumcatelli. Grab your e-tool. We are going for a walk."

I personally think you garner as much or more respect as a Cpl. who was demoted for making a billegerent Marine take off his blouse and low crawl in a briar patch as you do as a Sgt. who wrote a negative counseling sheet on that Marine.

What the hell is a counseling sheet? Is it something new that goes on the bunk under the blanket or under the fart sack? These are the kind of things that some of the older guys are talking about that happens in the Corps today.

Used to be. we handled it out behind the hooch. Never needed a counseling sheet or even worried that we needed one. We had our counseling sheets at the end of our arms.

[Old Marine]

On line Recruit Training. Now that's a doozy. Maybe it can be on facebook.

[USMCM38A1]

I have noticed it in the way young Marines treat old .When I got out of Boot camp and saw a Marine I did then and still do say Semper Fi I have done it to some young Marines and they look at you like your some kind of goofball.The few the proud seem to be even fewer now ,they don't seem to have the pride we had and I went through in the 80's.Political correctness and other policys like American Mothers is killing the Marines as we knew it.

[Mongoose]

I was just wondering if any of the new Marines just out of bootcamp. Has ever seen a boot talk back to a D.I.? Seems like they might get by with it now days.

[R Landry]

Oh, how I miss it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUc62jD-G0o

[Marine84]

I cant see a woman getting through the bootcamp in my day.

Really? Yeah, I know some WW II WM's (Women Marines) too. They made it through at one point. You sound like a lot of other elder Vets that were on the Ground side and never saw women.

And even in my day it was tough, at least to me, it was.

[1stSgtMell]

Old Marine, I see you retired in '73 also and went to work at the Depot. I'll bet a dollar to a donut you know Bill Paxton, old oorah himself. I see him every year at the annual Drill Instructor Reunion. He's a piece of work,huh?

[josephd]

here is my question...

Why is it that all you old timers can question and ***** about is boot camp and how weak it and my Corps (yes I said my Corps) has become. Why don't you actually look at what we as Marines of this generation are doing in country and in combat.

I don't come on here and disrespect any of you gentleman (and ladies) by posting questions about the "old Corps", so why do you feel it is necessary to disrespect myself and probably many of the other "new" Marines by saying how soft we supposedly are?

While I will admit boot camp and OCS both are not what they used to be even 5 years ago, boot camp is still no joke. I considered myself to be in VERY good shape and still got a good ass whooping out of it. The Marine Corps today, while it may not be as "hard" as when most of you were in, is better trained and educated than ever before. We don't need all the stupid games, harsh treatment, and everything else in order to accomplish the mission.

My suggestion to everyone that questions my new generation of Marines again is to do some research on what the Marines in Afghanistan are doing and how well they do it. Maybe even take the opportunity to get in touch with a few of them and ask questions about the job they do, what is involved in it, and actually get to know them as a Marine.

[Covey_Rider]

here is my question...

Why is it that all you old timers can question and ***** about is boot camp and how weak it and my Corps (yes I said my Corps) has become. Why don't you actually look at what we as Marines of this generation are doing in country and in combat.

I don't come on here and disrespect any of you gentleman (and ladies) by posting questions about the "old Corps", so why do you feel it is necessary to disrespect myself and probably many of the other "new" Marines by saying how soft we supposedly are?

While I will admit boot camp and OCS both are not what they used to be even 5 years ago, boot camp is still no joke. I considered myself to be in VERY good shape and still got a good ass whooping out of it. The Marine Corps today, while it may not be as "hard" as when most of you were in, is better trained and educated than ever before. We don't need all the stupid games, harsh treatment, and everything else in order to accomplish the mission.

My suggestion to everyone that questions my new generation of Marines again is to do some research on what the Marines in Afghanistan are doing and how well they do it. Maybe even take the opportunity to get in touch with a few of them and ask questions about the job they do, what is involved in it, and actually get to know them as a Marine.

I understand where you are coming from, however know this...I went to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I still stand behind what I said about Marines entering the fleet all jacked up. The issue for me is not whether or not recruits still get a beating, it's the fact that the beatings instilled discipline and apparently they are not receiving discipline nowadays.

Training and education come from NCO's AFTER boot camp. Boot camp is NOT meant for training purposes. Discipline and instant obedience to orders supersede EVERYTHING else. That is what keeps you alive when you're still wet behind the ears. Not the idea that a lot of new Marines have that they already know what needs to happen.

This is not saying all new Marines were like this, however there was a trend. For the same reason you can't say that 100% of the new Marines around you are smarter and better trained. There are always exceptions.

[josephd]

I understand what the purpose of the thread is, asking what happened between the years that boot camp has changed so much. And I can appreciate a good civil discussion about it.

What I have a problem with is the few old salts that have to come in and put in their .02 about how much harder they had it.

Again I completely agree that boot camp is not what it used to be, I always heard the stories and envisioned boot camp being a nightmare. I got to the depot and it was nothing like I imagined. I kick myself to this day for not joining right out of HS in 2003 when DI's were still the rabid horrors that I had always heard and I could have gotten a true feel for becoming a Marine.

So to answer the question theme of this thread, to the best of my ability, is that boot camp does not need to be what it was back when. Recruits of the day were for the most part(no offense) were un-educated troublemaker, they joined the Corps because there was no other option for them. Recruits of today are far better educated, having to have highschool diplomas, college credits, and some like myself having complete college educations. While I'll concede the discipline instilled needs to be the same now as it was years ago, it doesn't need to be taught in the same manner.