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11-08-10, 07:51 PM #1
Anyone Familiar with the Oath Keepers?
In a scenario where you were ordered to go against the constitution and take away the rights our ancestors fought for. Would you obey that order?
Just an Interesting topic and wondering what the Marines would do in a situation if the government tried to strip away what our ancestors have fought to protect.
11-08-10, 08:39 PM #2
SC got involved with Number 5, in 1861.
Just my personal opinion, but like another thread I saw today, it is simplistic to paint a picture of "us against them", black v white, right v wrong, without allowing for any shades of gray. More often than not, the reality of a situation is not so neatly drawn in terms of "sides". In our alarmist culture, we frequently sound the alarm rather than work to change things. But this is one person's opinion out of thousands and perhaps millions of other opinions.
I am leery of anything that even appears to be extremist, whether it actually is or not. If it appears to be, it has my attention.
11-08-10, 09:06 PM #3
I am the same way, there is a lot of theories being passed around but they are just that. Theory. Unless it is the absolute truth then I will believe. It is just a shame that it is almost like civilians ultimately have no voice unless they all speak as one. If anything really were to happen only then when it happens will the people come together just like they did in 1861.
11-08-10, 09:10 PM #4
Let me just elaborate on one point. Of course a person is free to list anything he or she wants to, but I don't like to see a list of orders military people will not obey. Any unlawful order should not be obeyed, there is no need to list them to show that we are patriotic.
Similarly, I would not like to see a list of ten kinds of superior officers I would not obey, and then proceed to list the Colonel who is drunk on duty, a racist Lt Col, an out of control Major, an insane Captain, etc etc an endless list that is more inflammatory than helpful. Better to just say, generally, that I would not obey an order that was unlawful, period.
11-08-10, 09:12 PM #5
You're right: people do come together when they need to. They did it in 1775, they did it in 1861, they will do it again. On another level, they come together for natural disasters e.g. Katrina and Haiti.
The problem I have with things like a list is that it is simplistic, and life just isn't simplistic. Some things look like they are, but there is always more to it.
11-08-10, 09:18 PM #6
The other thing that poses a problem is that there could very well be a military person who is under the impression that something is unconstitutional, refuses to obey the order, it was lawful but he or she figured otherwise, just on intuition, ends up in a bad situation. That is the other thing about this kind of list or way of looking at things.
We then have thousands of individuals, each one deciding what orders will and will not be obeyed, and each military person enforcing the Constitution according to how he or she understands it, leading to all kinds of problems. I can see it ranging from the stupid to some real serious things.
11-08-10, 09:24 PM #7
The reason why I brought up this topic is for this reason. It is Theory not fact but it is all over the internet and even on the mainstream media. The theory is: The New World Order. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PpMdTmVMpo
11-08-10, 09:35 PM #8
I just watched the video. It is always interesting to me, the language used by those who paint these simplistic pictures of conspiracy. Just the choice of words.
Education, religion, mass media are responsible for keeping us all in the dark?
Everything that is or has been, is seen as part of a conspiracy and plan to subjugate the American people.
What is responsible for our current situation in society is not a group of extremists bent on taking over Western Civilization, plotting in secret rooms across the country on how best to implement George Orwell's 1984.
What has caused this is lack of parenting, as well as the me me me Burger King mentality, Have It Your Way, since at least 1960, when "do your own thing" became popular. Once we were on that road, what we see today is its logical progression. This is worldwide, not just in America. Disrespect, mindless violence, lack of basic dignity and compassion, this is caused by us as a society, not by a plan to impose a New World Order.
Blanket statements, black and white viewing of the world as a whole, do nothing to help the situation.
Do we really suppose the American people to be so utterly brainless as to be merely robotic? Manipulated by a select few that are huddled somewhere deep in conference about what steps to take to further their totalitarian aims?
Give the American people credit for being smarter than that.The media is not responsible for our problems. The educational system is not responsible for our problems. Religion is not responsible for our problems.
We are. We caused them. It's been going on for at least 50 years now.
11-08-10, 09:45 PM #9
Very true and logical point. I just hope that if at anytime our freedoms were to be taken away, that no matter the politicians the military will continue to stand by the oath they take and the constitution the military has fought for.
11-08-10, 09:47 PM #10
Time to hit the rack, as I have a long day tomorrow, but I just thought again of how annoying simplistic views are, all wrapped up in a neat little package, never mind that the world hardly ever works that way.
And what just came to mind as I was about to log off is what someone would say to describe baseball, if they wanted to view it in this simplistic way like other things.
A guy with a piece of wood trying to hit a guy throwing a round object. Nothing more to it, just that. Or a NASA space project to Mars, with the intent to sample Martian soil etc as just a lump of hard matter being shot out into space. Or rather than being transported across the continent in a jet, you are just put into a metal tube and you sail in the air and drop down at the end of the ride.
Simplistic ways of describing very complicated things.
How about the birth of a star? Some stuff comes together, goes bang, and junk goes out and there you have a star........on and on.....you can turn anything into some two sentence explanation.....world does not work that way, though.
11-08-10, 09:49 PM #11
Re post 9, when it comes right down to it, the people, in and out of the military, will do the right thing, like they always have. What scares people is the very idea of being slowly sucked into situations like the ones in the video. Again, it is not that simple, not by any stretch of the imagination.
11-08-10, 10:03 PM #12
I try telling people I know that are sucked into believing these theories that you can't be gullible to what you hear. It is all just theory unless there is proven facts. Thank you for your input. I am off also nice talking to you.
11-09-10, 04:06 PM #13
I thought about it today at work, and also how I probably could have cut down on the number of words I used, but sometimes it cannot all be said in one or two or ten sentences.
It is pretty striking how we don't worry about our own real problems in society these days, separate from what might be re the New World Order etc, we have a F...d Up World Order right in front of our eyes, but not one president, not one representative or senator has ever come forward and said, hey, instead of spending money to have someone study a particular Ecuadorian moth, or the sex habits of monkeys in Madagascar, why don't we form a panel of folks and find out just what is going on in this country today? The problems are age old, some of them, e.g. poverty, crime, overcrowded neighborhoods, but there are some new problems, the chief one being what I call "mindlessness". Let's study these problems and come to terms with them, but we never do. There is no incentive for any individual to do it, as long as we have food on the table and a car and things we like to do, who cares about the fact that this country has been in steady decay and decline for fifty years?
One example comes to mind, actually 2....a young man, or rather a young savage, is on trial right now in New Hampshire for selecting at random a mother and her daughter, then breaking into the house to see what it would be like to kill someone with a machete, so they did. Instant gratification. The defendant was absolutely elated afterwards.
A group of kids in Georgia crashed a big party, a small fight broke out outside, and instead of fighting the individual who was in on the fight, the group decided, we will kill the very next kid that comes our way---and so of course they did just that, beating him to death, an innocent kid. These are America's young savages. Would be nice to deal with this type of real problem rather than the New World Order.
We already have a New World Order, and it's not very pretty.
11-10-10, 08:54 AM #14
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