What to Say to Men Who Have Negative Opinions on Females in the Military

I encountered an extremely frustrating opinion concerning women in the armed forces. This is from someone I know pretty well in a professional manner. What do I say to men who totally disregard the efforts of the FET and those women who serve with honor in the military? I realize that the military is still very much a man's world, but the comments made to me were very insulting. Any recommendations? Should I simply disregard their opinions? I'm going in as a linguist and I feel I will make as good a linguist as any male. I find it offensive and disrespectful to ignore the efforts of women in the military and would like some advice on how to handle that. Thanks, Marines

;)

First and foremost, congratulations on deciding to join the best fighting force in the world, and thank you for your patriotism and desire to serve your country.

I think what sucks about it is that there will always be people out there who, no matter what logic you may present or reasons you may give, will still be stubborn and have their crappy opinions about things. Just in the same way that going into the military means accepting that there are always going to be people who not only dislike what goes on overseas, but dislike the military in general... there will always be people who view women as inferior to men.

When you're passionate about something, it can be understandable to want to defend your desire and right to be doing it, and if the sexism is coming from somebody you consider to be a friend, then your reaction might be even more passionate. When somebody dismisses or puts down a cause that you're willing to actually give your life for, it can be upsetting to say the least. And you can't help but see the irony in the fact that you've volunteered to serve in the military, so that you can defend and protect THEIR right to disapprove you being in the military.

But what will YOU gain by getting yourself worked up and into an argument with somebody who's opinion will never change? That is the question I think you have to ask yourself on a case-by-case basis. Remember, there is a difference in "being a push-over" and taking the high road for your own sake and sanity. Personally, getting ****ed off and worked up every time somebody blabs ignorance about the military got tiring really fast, so it became easier to accept in my mind that they were either stubborn, too lazy to look at the whole picture, or just plain stupid, and that to argue with them was not only not going to get us anywhere, but needlessly frustrate me. It just isn't worth the daily aggravation to me.

For what it is worth... I've been on a local volunteer fire department for almost 8 years, and I've been an interior firefighter since I turned 18 (I'm 24 now, soon to be 25). Here in the suburbs of NYC, I've seen more than my fair share of bad fires and dangerous situations. That said, in this male-dominated profession, my fire department has 2 female interior firefighters and 1 male who has a prosthetic leg... and I would go into a blazing house with them ANY day. Conversely, there are plenty of male firefighters that I've seen that I would be a little more cautious about bringing in. To me, I don't care what a person's gender, race, height, or ratio of artificial appendages-to-non-artificial appendages is. If they are capable of doing the job correctly, then they should be entitled to do that job. If you manage to graduate from boot camp and get pinned with that EGA, then you will entitled to defend this country just as much as I am.

There are no "Female Marines." Only Marines.

Oh, and my lucky number is 23, so that shows me you'll do great! haha

Tell them to p1ss off. A couple of the poolees at my station have this attitude, and generally I ignore them when they bug me about it. Just focus on training and what your recruiter says. It hasn't really bothered me thus far. My family is military, and I went in expecting it. Just be the best godd@mn marine you can be, because there will always be d0uchers like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiri

Tell them to p1ss off. A couple of the poolees at my station have this attitude, and generally I ignore them when they bug me about it. Just focus on training and what your recruiter says. It hasn't really bothered me thus far. My family is military, and I went in expecting it. Just be the best godd@mn marine you can be, because there will always be d0uchers like that.

---

Wow Kiri, you're getting that from other poolees? That's pretty funny lol! Luckily my fellow poolees and recruiters don't care about gender ...

Because from Marines I've talked to, FET teams do absolutely nothing. When they contact, guess who are the first people to jump in a ditch and cower? Yup the FET teams. Not saying there aren't males who aren't cowards and there certainly exceptions to this. I think only stuff like Delta or SF should be open to women, if they can hack the standard, let them in. I don't want to see the Marine Corps baby along women just so they can say "I am a lioness, hear me roar"

No one is going to rag on you for becoming a linguist, just don't expect any recognition for what male Marines do every day, which is get shot at, blown up, live in holes, etc. if you do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexJH

Because from Marines I've talked to, FET teams do absolutely nothing. When they contact, guess who are the first people to jump in a ditch and cower? Yup the FET teams. Not saying there aren't males who aren't cowards and there certainly exceptions to this. I think only stuff like Delta or SF should be open to women, if they can hack the standard, let them in. I don't want to see the Marine Corps baby along women just so they can say "I am a lioness, hear me roar"

No one is going to rag on you for becoming a linguist, just don't expect any recognition for what male Marines do every day, which is get shot at, blown up, live in holes, etc. if you do it.

---

Sure, grunts are to be held in very high regard, but you should remember that none of that is possible without ALL MOS's.

That's a whole different story though, that's grunts vs pogs, a lot of pogs will end up directly supporting them. A russian linguist was killed in Afghanistan on the 6th I think, he was in a radio bn, the first 26XX in the battalion killed during OEF I think.

You're going to have to work twice as hard to make it somewhere without complaining, the reputation of the WM is not good, if you complain no one will want to hear it. Just sayin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexJH

That's a whole different story though, that's grunts vs pogs, a lot of pogs will end up directly supporting them. A russian linguist was killed in Afghanistan on the 6th I think, he was in a radio bn, the first 26XX in the battalion killed during OEF I think.

You're going to have to work twice as hard to make it somewhere without complaining, the reputation of the WM is not good, if you complain no one will want to hear it. Just sayin.

---

I hear that, I was just a little annoyed bc the person that said this knows me, that's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Languagelover23

Wow Kiri, you're getting that from other poolees? That's pretty funny lol! Luckily my fellow poolees and recruiters don't care about gender ...

---

Yeah, POOLEES. It's pretty messed up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Languagelover23

I hear that, I was just a little annoyed bc the person that said this knows me, that's all.

---

Don't suck up to him, LL23. He's a poolee. For him to talk smack about the Lioness teams and "WM's" as he calls them, is pretty low.

Opinion of Marines who happen to be female is NOT low, but it is a sexist environment so a lot of guys will have a poor opinion, but not all of them

Pfttt. I guarantee Marines in the FET can dominate most of the guys that talk trash about Women serving.

Even if, for some reason, women serving in the military bothers you. There's no reason to 1) Talk about it. or 2) Really give a rats ass, because some random guys opinion doesnt matter.

Really wanna shut those guys up that are bothering you? Work your ass off and show them you can do more pull ups, crunches, and run faster than them lol. Theyre gonna see you doing pull ups and say "wtf! shes hard corps"

btw im a guy. Cheers :)

One of the recruiters at my RSS is a female and I have just as much respect for her as all the other recruiters. Im gonna be honest I think I would have a hard time dating a Marine but female Marines definately have my respect

Slow down there motivators. Why don't you read some of my copypasta real quick, it's either from Marines themselves or from articles on wimminz:


"Tactical concerns:
In On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman briefly mentions that female soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces have been officially prohibited from serving in close combat military operations since 1948 (in 2001, subsequent to publication, women began serving in IDF combat units on an experimental basis). The reason for removing female soldiers from the front lines is no reflection on the performance of female soldiers, but that of the male infantrymen after witnessing a woman wounded. The IDF saw a complete loss of control over soldiers who apparently experienced an uncontrollable, protective, instinctual aggression.

Grossman also notes that Islamic militants rarely, if ever, surrender to female soldiers. In modern warfare where intelligence is perhaps more important than enemy casualties, every factor reducing combatants' willingness to fight is considered. Similarly, Iraqi and Afghani civilians are often not intimidated by female soldiers. However, in such environments, having female soldiers serving within a combat unit does have the advantage of allowing for searches on female civilians, and in some cases the female areas of segregated mosques, while causing less offense amongst the occupied population. A notable example of this would be female US military personnel who are specially selected to participate in patrols and raids for this purpose."

Melody Kemp mentions that the Australian soldiers have voiced similar concern saying these soldiers "are reluctant to take women on reconnaissance or special operations, as they fear that in the case of combat or discovery, their priority will be to save the women and not to complete the mission. Thus while men might be able to be programmed to kill, it’s is not as easy to program men to neglect women.

On SERE:

"
I can't speak for combat effeciency and all that since I'm a pog flyer. The only "experience" I have is training at SERE. We had women there and man it was brutal. First off, when we were evading, the female LT in my squad kept making me slow down because "we're not all gung ho marines" and we can't keep up with you. Later, during interrogation, when a male was being ****ed up they would bring a female in and beat her ass in front of us. I can't speak for anyone else, but when they did it to me... I flipped ****. And mind you, this is just training. I pushed the guy outta the way and they had to restrain me and "put me in the corner" which is basically a TTO. They reminded me that if I reacted physically to an instructor again I would be kicked out. So, I had to sit there and rage and convince the guy to hit me instead of her. All just basic instinct... I was just reacting to a female being attacked. Then when they finally layed off of her and went into me, well both of them instead of one, she fell into the corner and cried. This was all just a training exercise. Psychologically it's just completely different. They are raised different and are given special treatment whether they like/accept it or not and makes them unable to hack it 90% of the time with males."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexJH

Slow down there motivators. Why don't you read some of my copypasta real quick, it's either from Marines themselves or from articles on wimminz:


"Tactical concerns:
In On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman briefly mentions that female soldiers in the Israel Defense Forces have been officially prohibited from serving in close combat military operations since 1948 (in 2001, subsequent to publication, women began serving in IDF combat units on an experimental basis). The reason for removing female soldiers from the front lines is no reflection on the performance of female soldiers, but that of the male infantrymen after witnessing a woman wounded. The IDF saw a complete loss of control over soldiers who apparently experienced an uncontrollable, protective, instinctual aggression.

Grossman also notes that Islamic militants rarely, if ever, surrender to female soldiers. In modern warfare where intelligence is perhaps more important than enemy casualties, every factor reducing combatants' willingness to fight is considered. Similarly, Iraqi and Afghani civilians are often not intimidated by female soldiers. However, in such environments, having female soldiers serving within a combat unit does have the advantage of allowing for searches on female civilians, and in some cases the female areas of segregated mosques, while causing less offense amongst the occupied population. A notable example of this would be female US military personnel who are specially selected to participate in patrols and raids for this purpose."

Melody Kemp mentions that the Australian soldiers have voiced similar concern saying these soldiers "are reluctant to take women on reconnaissance or special operations, as they fear that in the case of combat or discovery, their priority will be to save the women and not to complete the mission. Thus while men might be able to be programmed to kill, it’s is not as easy to program men to neglect women.

On SERE:

"
I can't speak for combat effeciency and all that since I'm a pog flyer. The only "experience" I have is training at SERE. We had women there and man it was brutal. First off, when we were evading, the female LT in my squad kept making me slow down because "we're not all gung ho marines" and we can't keep up with you. Later, during interrogation, when a male was being ****ed up they would bring a female in and beat her ass in front of us. I can't speak for anyone else, but when they did it to me... I flipped ****. And mind you, this is just training. I pushed the guy outta the way and they had to restrain me and "put me in the corner" which is basically a TTO. They reminded me that if I reacted physically to an instructor again I would be kicked out. So, I had to sit there and rage and convince the guy to hit me instead of her. All just basic instinct... I was just reacting to a female being attacked. Then when they finally layed off of her and went into me, well both of them instead of one, she fell into the corner and cried. This was all just a training exercise. Psychologically it's just completely different. They are raised different and are given special treatment whether they like/accept it or not and makes them unable to hack it 90% of the time with males."

---

I can understand how males feel about protecting women. My spuse is very much like that. However, even if woman are not in combat positions, they are nonetheless valuable to the mission in other ways. My beef was with my "friend" who basically disregarded us all and called them all s.l.u.t.s in so many words. I am a model, and this person was a photographer who I have known for about a year. Yes, I am in a "feminine" profession, but in my mind it doesn't mean $&*#. I don't care what profession I'm in, I expect respect as long as I behave in a manner that demands it. This person was out of line in their thoughts, and I suppose I just got a preview of things to come. But that is fine with me. I will deal with that so I can be the best!