Stolen Valor resale of medals

[Riven37]

Does anyone know what are the new Federal Laws on resale of personal decoration like the Silver Star. Now that the Stolen Valor found unconsititutional, I do know you can't resale medals on ebay under Federal Laws.

This week I was at an antique mall where I seen RVN Silver Stars decorations being resold, I felt upset about it. THinking about calling the FBI about it.

[ShannonL]

There are many Marine and Soldiers children that are in possession of war medals ETC and sellm them because they dont understand. There are many collecters that collect items from a certain battle or war and buy those medals and display them. If they get a picture of the warrior who earned them, the better...but wearing them as your own is wrong. You buy honour but you can preserve it.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Absolutely NOT illegal to sell ANY medal (except the MOH). Stolen valor act does NOT apply to the buying, selling, trading of any medal, only the wearing/claiming of unearned ones.

[SwatSniper311]

I personally wouldn't sell any of my medals. But its because they have meaning to me and I protect them in a glass case so someday I can hand them down to my children. Those who sell their medals have issues, either they didn't really earn them, or they just don't care. I know there are some that are hard up for money, but I would dig ditches before I ever sold one of my medals. Every medal I earned has its own story and I hope to tell that story to my grandkids someday. Semper Fi.....

[ShannonL]

I personally wouldn't sell any of my medals. But its because they have meaning to me and I protect them in a glass case so someday I can hand them down to my children. Those who sell their medals have issues, either they didn't really earn them, or they just don't care. I know there are some that are hard up for money, but I would dig ditches before I ever sold one of my medals. Every medal I earned has its own story and I hope to tell that story to my grandkids someday. Semper Fi.....


Medals are earned with blood and gunfire. Hell I'd stand homeless on the street with em in my pocket before selling them. So much family history lost due to ignorance.

[jrod02]

It's up to the person who earned it. And there is a a difference, as someone else said, between collecting medals and wearing medals you don't rate. Big difference. Same with other collections, e.g. police badges. If you have a 100 police badges locked up at home, you are hardly impersonating an officer. But wearing one, crosses the legal line, becomes a crime.
Buying medals, collecting them, you are never holding yourself out as having earned it, so it is no different than another collection...wearing them, crosses the line.
And if a veteran wants to sell his or her medal, for any reason, and someone buys it as a keepsake of some kind, again, it is a medal, the medal itself does not contain honor or courage, it is what it symbolizes that is the key. So since you cannot sell valor, courage etc there is no problem with the symbol of it.
Is a police officer an officer because he or she has a badge on his chest? Is his authority within the metal badge? or is he or she an officer because of being sworn in as one?
There is a major difference between wearing and collecting.
And there is a major difference between the medal and what it symbolizes. It is only a symbol. If you have a Marine Corps good conduct medal, your good conduct is nowhere inside that medal, it is in yourself.

Very Well Said.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Dcb, Damvn Well Said!

[Riven37]

If you are right then why is there an FBI Law on ebay stopping the resale of war mdals ? If you cannot resal them on ebay you should not be able to resale them to the general public, right ! My own son asked me if he could have mine when he was a teenager and I told him go join the Corps and win your own.



Absolutely NOT illegal to sell ANY medal (except the MOH). Stolen valor act does NOT apply to the buying, selling, trading of any medal, only the wearing/claiming of unearned ones.

[yanacek]

Maybe I could jump in here again-----having a law for or against something does not make that law right. It has to be obeyed, but being a law doesn't mean it is not idiotic. And in this Age Of Fear we live in, we are afraid to do a lot of things lest we offend someone.....remember, I never once saw courage, valor or integrity sold. I've seen symbols sold, but not the attributes themselves.....if you but a Bronze Star for yourself on a medals online site, I don't think you just became more courageous under fire. I wouldn't worry about courage and valor being found in medals. They ain't there.

Exactly.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

If you are right then why is there an FBI Law on ebay stopping the resale of war mdals ? If you cannot resal them on ebay you should not be able to resale them to the general public, right ! My own son asked me if he could have mine when he was a teenager and I told him go join the Corps and win your own.

Because Ebay has taken the law and become absolutely RETARDED with it. Ebay doesn't allow the sale of ammunition, 'nazi' items, etc. It's their assinine policies, NOT the law.

Furthermore (because this IS a peeve of mine) it's not illegal for a Canadian, an Australian, a German, or an Englishman to purchase a Medal of Honor. That's right, they can buy/sell/trade them all they want. Yet, it IS illegal for me to do so, as an American citizen. All this law has done (re: the purchasing/owning of the Medal of Honor) is to send them overseas. Absolutely stupid.

Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, and impose JAIL time, on those who would illegally wear such things. But basically telling collectors in this country that they cannot own, buy, or sell them has only succeeded in driving pieces of American history...overseas.

Again....it is ONLY illegal to sell the MOH. Nothing else. Ebay is retarded.

[yanacek]

Furthermore (because this IS a peeve of mine) it's not illegal for a Canadian, an Australian, a German, or an Englishman to purchase a Medal of Honor. That's right, they can buy/sell/trade them all they want. Yet, it IS illegal for me to do so, as an American citizen. All this law has done (re: the purchasing/owning of the Medal of Honor) is to send them overseas. Absolutely stupid.

Wow! I did not know that.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yup. "Law of unintended consequences". Good intentions law that has completely backfired.

You can thank "His Lordships Industries", which was the MOH contractor in the 1990's for that one, they were selling MOH's illegally. That wasn't the issue so much, except that the scumbags who bought some of them used them to replace REAL MOH's that had been issued to MOH winners (in several cases), and others basically just ran around wearing them, getting all sorts of benefits out of it. It was ALWAYS illegal to do this, you understand....the law just didn't have much teeth and was rarely, if ever, enforced.

Thus, we get 'Stolen Valor' and all the collateral damage because of that. Another good example is if you own a Medal of Honor that was, say, an ancestors medal. You can legally OWN it...but you can't SELL it. All you can do is 'donate' it to a museum. Nor can you sell anything that came with it.

Again, the weasel-ness of doing that aside, the medal, like it or not, is yours to dispose of as you please. Except now...it isn't. If you try it, the F-Bee-Eye will hook you right up....and it's a 250,000 dollar, multiple year prison sentence.

And yes, they do prosecute this stuff.

Ebay's biggest beyotch is the Purple Heart. As soon as one of the 'medal nazi's' see's one and reports it on there, it gets yanked. Stupid.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yup. I still collect police patches myself but can't afford the badges LOL.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Cooool. Thanks!
J

[usmc987332]

Absolutely NOT illegal to sell ANY medal (except the MOH). Stolen valor act does NOT apply to the buying, selling, trading of any medal, only the wearing/claiming of unearned ones.
I think this is correct.

[SwatSniper311]

What happen to honor and committment? It was and still is an honor to have the medal given to me. Everything I have I earned and I feel that these medals are part of my history. Its the same now as a Law Enforcement Officer, I have every badge: patrolman, corporal, sergeant, etc.... and I will die before I would ever sell them. I guess those who agree with the sell of medals don't honor the symbolizm. I spent 10 years on active duty in the Corps, I have been out now since 1998. Back here in the real world those medals mean alot. I have them mounted in a glass case for those who step into my office to see. I may be old fasioned, but I have alot of pride for the Corps still today. I still have my dress blues, my camo, etc..... The Corps and what it stands for would not be very happy if they knew Marines were selling their medals. What a shame.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

So....using this logic, the Medals of WWI veterans (only one of whom is now alive) should have all been...what, exactly? Buried with them? Destroyed?

Alas, not everyone is interested in their family history. Sad, but true. Sometimes there is no 'everyone' to pass it along to. I recently acquired a Marine officer's Ribbons and dog tags. He was an OSS Marine with China service, WWII. No living, remaining, relatives.

Would it be better if I just tossed the stuff instead of researching it, and putting it into a display case?

And the idea that 'donating it to a museum' doesn't wash, either. Despite the rarity of what those items represent...MOST museums (Even the Marine Corps Museum) get far more 'stuff' than they can EVER display. You know what happens to most of it? It gets sold (to people like me, most of the time) to pay for acquisitions/funding/the light bill.

And, again, not every family wants the 'stuff', nor has room to display it, keep it or store it. And, again, sometimes, they have to sell it to pay the mortgage.

Have I sold my 'stuff'? No. Would I hope that my family keeps it 'in the family'? Sure. But what might be important to "me" may not be important to 'them'. Just the way it is.

I'm not trying to climb anyone's frame here or dogpile. But I've been collecting this stuff since I was 8 years old. I've preserved it, studied it, and enjoyed it. I know, moreso than most, what happens to 'grandads stuff'.

BTW, I've got every single badge I've ever worn as well. And maybe my kids will appreciate 'em....maybe not. Not my call. No desire to be buried with the things though LOL.

Sorry for the rant.... :)

[Riven37]

Just a call out thanks for all your / input … In the future, I will try not to get upset when I see a Bronze Star other being re-sold at the Flee market (s) or other…still ****es me off when I think the man who own that award and asking myself did he die earning it or did he come home then passed away knowing his estate was sold by family members or by his state … Sad really, this is why when I die all my decorations, and decoration letter (s) and / or citation (s) will be placed inside my coffin and if I am cremated they will be placed under my body upon my burning of my body. Again guys that’s for your input this (issue) has always ****ed me off.

[Old Marine]

The Expert Shooting Badge that I wore during my tour of duty had 03 Crossed Rifles on it. I don't remember where i appropriated it. I am guessing that it was alright to wear it, because I wore it for 20 years and was never chewed for it. Gave it to one of my buddies kid when he enlisted in the Corps.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Riven, that's why I'm a collector believe it or not. I rescue stuff like that when I have the funds.

But Dave is correct....it's not the medal or the ribbon that did the deed...it's the man (or woman) that did it. NONE of those bits of colored ribbon 'made' history..the people did!

[Sgt Leprechaun]

And there you have it sir.

When I teach USMC history and traditions, it's one of my 'taglines' I ask people, when I hold up or point out equipment, 'Which piece of this MADE history?'

I get all sorts of responses but almost never the correct one. The individual MARINE 'made' the history. The rest of this stuff is just laundry, metal, and component parts. Without the Marine (soldier, etc) it doesn't mean squat.

[USNAviator]

This is the one area where Dave and I have a disagreement. Valor as a tangible asset cannot be stolen but as a perception I believe it can

The medals/awards represent an act of valor on the part of the individual. People see a Silver Star and they understand that award was given for some courageous act

When a POS buys a uniform and some medals, they are projecting themselves as the ones who earned those awards. They are giving off the perception of being valorous when in fact they did not earn any of their awards. They are stealing the "valor" represented by those awards. Ever notice that when one of these dirt bags is busted, they are not an E-2 but at least an E-7 or in the case of an officer at least an O-3. They steal the rank as well

They never seem to be wearing just basic decorations but a Navy Cross or two or three, same amount of Silver Stars. They want to be perceived or believed as heroes. People see them at banquets or parades, see the awards and think of them a being great men. When in fact most of them have never worn a uniform in any service

I agree the act of valor cannot be stolen but the perception of valor represented by the medals can and is the only reason why posers do what they do

[Sgt Leprechaun]

And, I also agree with the concept behind what you are saying sir. However, I think congress overstepped (as usual) it's bounds when it prohibited the sale of MOH's to regular people (collectors). SVA is a GOOD law but that is one section where I think they got stupid with it.

[USNAviator]

Actually, Dan and I are not in as much disagreement as he may think----I agree that posing, especially with medals, means that the poser is representing to the world that HE/SHE earned/was awarded those medals. And I agree that it is reprehensible.

So far as that goes, we agree. It is wrong, even heinous, for someone like that to be wearing those medals.

No medal contains valor within it. It is a symbol of valor. I see what Dan is saying, that the poser is wearing a symbol of valor, and to that extent I agree with him. But the poser can't steal the valor itself.

Agree 100% :thumbup:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Concur with both!

[USNAviator]

And, I also agree with the concept behind what you are saying sir. However, I think congress overstepped (as usual) it's bounds when it prohibited the sale of MOH's to regular people (collectors). SVA is a GOOD law but that is one section where I think they got stupid with it.

Jason I understand your position. You as a collector certainly would not walk about wearing Americas greatest award for heroism.

Was the MOH for sale in the open market prior to the SVA? I know there was a problem with the firm that produced the award, they were selling non circulated awards I believe.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Yes, you could buy them. Most of the time they were either historical ones from, say the Civil War (although others were available if you had the funds) there were a few blanks around.

HLI (His Lordships Industries) in the early 90's, which had the contract for them (and tons of other medals and insignia) began selling 'unissued' ones out the back door to collectors at 200 bucks a pop. I can well remember seeing these at gun and military shows. Never got one.

Well, a few notable posers got nailed, and the medals were traced back to them. CongInt showed what was happening. They lost the contract ('in perpetuty' no less...) went out of business.

The end result is it is now considered 'Stolen property' to own an un-named MOH. That includes the medal, the citation, and the ribbon. Yes...to OWN one. (In addition of course to falsely wearing one etc). The FBI will in fact come and take your MOH. Which, by the way, goes back and gets BURNED in an incinerator when the case is over with.

Of course, if you are a 'furrner', you can buy, display and own ANY US medal including the MOH. Happens quite often. Crazy.
Because of the SVA, ebay has made drastic changes in what it allows to be sold. They are under the mistaken impression that the Purple Heart also falls under this law (it doesn't, as far as sale/possession). Stupid.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Oh yeah LOL. Understandably so on that. Same goes for MOST fed badges from what I understand.

[Matthewop]

yeah i didn't know that before.. :confused:








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