Son just commissioned as an O-1, has a really bad attitude and won't listen [Archive] - Marine Corps

View Full Version : Son just commissioned as an O-1, has a really bad attitude and won't listen

BarryThorn

10-03-10, 04:07 PM

My son recently graduated from the University of Arizona and commissioned through NROTC into the Marines as a 2nd Lieutenant. Basically, being this rank means he is the smallest, newest, littlest fish in the Officer pond. He is training to be a helicopter pilot. However, he has developed this really bad and cocky attitude recently. When I spoke with him on the phone earlier and asked him how things were going with training and everything, he just went off saying that he resents the fact that high ranking enlisted people are telling him what to do and giving him advice, and that he is an Officer and should not have to take this.

Having been in the Army Officer myself for 18 years, I know perfectly well that he will have to accept things like this, especially since the majority, if not all of the Enlisted guys in his unit have far more experience than he does, and he needs to listen to their advice, he needs to learn from them and learn to work with them. I told him this, and he got mad at me saying that it is not fair that he is an Officer and he gets treated like he's nothing. He said he doesn't think Enlisted people should be giving him advice. He proceeded to tell me that he is going to be the top pilot in his unit. I had to cut him off and tell him that he is thinking with a typical hotshot flyboy attitude, and he will be shaped up quick by someone in the Corps, because the military won't tolerate that. I was brutally honest with him and told him that basically a 2nd Lieutenant / 0-1 is essentially nothing, and that his main job is to learn from the more experienced personnel. I said that just because he is a fresh-out-of-college Lieutenant does not mean he knows it all straight off the back. I know ROTC must have taught him this. Last thing I told him before he hung up on me was that he is acting way to immature to be an Officer right now. He just told me "whatever Dad" and ended the phone conversation.

I'm worried he won't last long in the military with this kind of attitude. I tried telling him, but I think he may have to learn the hard way. I probably shouldn't have said he had the typical hotshot flyboy attitude though. I don't know how he expects to be a leader and set the example with this attitude. He is only 24, but he is acting like he is above everyone else just because he has Lieutenant's butter bars now. I know for a fact if I had thought like that when I was in the military, I would have washed out.

I just don't want to see my only child's career go down the drain or see him get hurt in some way because he can't take advice and shape up his attitude. If he won't listen to his old man, how is he going to listen to anyone else? He might give me and his mother Hell sometimes, but he is my boy, and he is the only child we were able to have, and I don't want him to get hurt because he can't learn to listen and take some advice. I don't know what else I can do to make him listen before he gets put in his place by someone else in a not so pleasant way.

Wyoming

10-03-10, 04:28 PM

Have him come on here and see if he indeed needs to check his attitude at the door.

Supersquishy

10-03-10, 04:32 PM

Give him a month in the Fleet then call him again and see hows things are going.

BarryThorn

10-03-10, 04:42 PM

Have him come on here and see if he indeed needs to check his attitude at the door.

Trust me, I told him about this site and he knows about it. I wish he would come on here. He needs to shape up quick.

USNAviator

10-03-10, 04:59 PM

Trust me, I told him about this site and he knows about it. I wish he would come on here. He needs to shape up quick.

Has he gone through TBS yet? That attitude should have been adjusted at Quantico, The Basic School

Most O-1's seek out the help of senior enlisted. These men have been in service for at least 10 years. They know the ropes and can get things done quicker and more efficiently.

I sincerely hope he gets on board because when word gets out among the SNCO's, he's in deep sh$t

If he does visit LN feel free to have him PM me

Dan

hbharrison

10-03-10, 07:29 PM

Attitude ajustments will come, some sooner some later but most of then come to those who ask for them.

BarryThorn

10-03-10, 07:45 PM

Has he gone through TBS yet? That attitude should have been adjusted at Quantico, The Basic School

Most O-1's seek out the help of senior enlisted. These men have been in service for at least 10 years. They know the ropes and can get things done quicker and more efficiently.

I sincerely hope he gets on board because when word gets out among the SNCO's, he's in deep sh$t

If he does visit LN feel free to have him PM me

Dan

Yes he has gone through it. I too thought it would have been dealt with there as well. Apparently I was wrong. He did like to party a lot in college and he had more than one girllfriend throughout the time he was at the U of AZ. But he is in the real world now and needs to leave that part of his life in the past. I would get him to PM you, but I doubt he would go on here since he feels he can't even take advice from his own father. I may not have been Marines, but I was Army for 18 years, and I know how the military works. I have a feeling he will just have to learn the hard way.

USNAviator

10-03-10, 08:05 PM

Yes he has gone through it. I too thought it would have been dealt with there as well. Apparently I was wrong. He did like to party a lot in college and he had more than one girllfriend throughout the time he was at the U of AZ. But he is in the real world now and needs to leave that part of his life in the past. I would get him to PM you, but I doubt he would go on here since he feels he can't even take advice from his own father. I may not have been Marines, but I was Army for 18 years, and I know how the military works. I have a feeling he will just have to learn the hard way.

Barry

I agree it's time for him to grow up before it's too late. I probably missed it but what is his MOS?

Messing with SNCO's, as you well know, is not something you want to do. Especially in the Corps!

He's going to learn one way...easy or the other...hard. But he will learn! Mind if I ask why he went through NROTC and joined the Corps in the first place? What were his expectations? What did he see as his contribution?

Sorry might be out of line with those questions

If he ever does consent to look in on LN...I can give him my advice...strongly!!!

awbrown1462

10-03-10, 08:29 PM

when he trys to dress down a 1stSgt or SgtMaj he will learn the hard way and if he goes to the CO about it another lesson will be learned

BarryThorn

10-03-10, 08:39 PM

Barry

I agree it's time for him to grow up before it's too late. I probably missed it but what is his MOS?

Messing with SNCO's, as you well know, is not something you want to do. Especially in the Corps!

He's going to learn one way...easy or the other...hard. But he will learn! Mind if I ask why he went through NROTC and joined the Corps in the first place? What were his expectations? What did he see as his contribution?

Sorry might be out of line with those questions

If he ever does consent to look in on LN...I can give him my advice...strongly!!!

Dan,
I am honestly not 100% sure on the code for Blake's MOS, its been a while since I was in the Army, so you'll forgive me. But he is a student pilot for Helicopters. He wants to try and fly the CH-53 Sea Stallion Helicopter.

Part of the reason he joined NROTC was financial. He had really good grades through high school and got a scholarship. I really think he did it more to show and prove he could make something of his life. His mother and I supported him 100%. He's a good kid really, its just I think he can't get past the fact that he is not the only person and not everything revolves around him.

SGT7477

10-03-10, 08:51 PM

when he trys to dress down a 1stSgt or SgtMaj he will learn the hard way and if he goes to the CO about it another lesson will be learned
A Gunny will show him who is the boss,lol, Semper Fidelis.:flag:

SGT7477

10-03-10, 08:52 PM

Dan,
I am honestly not 100% sure on the code for Blake's MOS, its been a while since I was in the Army, so you'll forgive me. But he is a student pilot for Helicopters. He wants to try and fly the CH-53 Sea Stallion Helicopter.

Part of the reason he joined NROTC was financial. He had really good grades through high school and got a scholarship. I really think he did it more to show and prove he could make something of his life. His mother and I supported him 100%. He's a good kid really, its just I think he can't get past the fact that he is not the only person and not everything revolves around him.
Barry what rank did you hold?

USNAviator

10-03-10, 08:54 PM

Barry

Don't sweat it.. he sounds like a good kid who needs to grow up. We all did at one point

This might help regarding his MOS

United States Marine Corps (USMC)
Officer Job Descriptions
See Explanation of Terms (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/marineofficerjobs/blterms.htm)
MOS 7558 through 7568, Pilot HMH/M/L/A (I)
a. Summary. Pilots HMH/MIL/A operate rotary wing aircraft on observation, transport, rescue, utility, and fire suppression missions.

Where is he training?

BarryThorn

10-03-10, 09:03 PM

Barry what rank did you hold?

I was an O-5

BarryThorn

10-03-10, 09:04 PM

USNAviator

10-03-10, 09:28 PM

Dan, thanks and he is at Pensacola right now.

Barry

I retired as on O-5 in '98. Went through P-Cola in '78-'79. Not sure where he'll go Helo for advanced. I ended up at NAS Kingsville but did not see any Helo drivers there. Perhaps Corpus or Meridian?

Best of luck to him...he'll be OK Dad :thumbup:

Dan

Backhaus 1103

10-03-10, 09:41 PM

Good thing he's not infantry. I know a few enlisted that would love to put a boot 2nd Lt in his place. That is also a quick way to get your plt to hate you and not do a damn thing you say.

Quinbo

10-03-10, 10:07 PM

I had a second lieutenant that really believed that enlisted were subserviant servants. We were in the field and just getting ready to punch out. He said have someone tear down my hooch and pack my pack. Appearantly he had a meeting and couldn't be bothered with such trivial stuff. I had a couple lance coolies do as he said then told them to find the biggest freakin rock that he could find and put it in the pack. Next they packed mud in each external pocket. Saddle up lets go. Our hero humped that 30 lb rock, plus all his gear, and pack filled with mud 20 miles to base camp before he figured it out. It was a heavy sumbish too LOL.

It only took once.

TunTvrnWarrior

10-04-10, 08:06 AM

Old Marine

10-04-10, 10:01 AM

A spoiled military brat that should have had his azz handed to him many years ago, then maybe there would not be this problem that he has.

SGTBrentG

10-04-10, 10:18 AM

A spoiled military brat that should have had his azz handed to him many years ago, then maybe there would not be this problem that he has.

See.....when the Gunny gets a hold of the young Lt, his attitude will change!

hbharrison

10-04-10, 12:05 PM

He best hope he does not have a run in with and ol SgtMaj he will find out just where he stands and it an't at the front of the line.

Old Marine

10-04-10, 12:17 PM

I personally think it is very unfair of a parent to expect some SNCO to put his career in harms way by taking a young boot Lt. and dressing him down in front of his peers, or even reading the riot act to him in more than a normal voice, which might bring tears. Just a damn shame.

If he wants to learn, its fine to take him under your wing and teach him how to be an Ossifer who is respected by his men.

ggyoung

10-04-10, 12:50 PM

The Marine Corps has a way of taking care of there own. He will be OK

elliscraig12

10-04-10, 01:24 PM

This reminds me of a saying I heard back in 83 when I first went to the FMF. What's the difference between a PFC and a 2nd LT? A PFC has been promoted once.

tdrt

10-04-10, 02:44 PM

Remind the young boot 2nd LT that his enlisted Marines are the ones who determine if the helicopter can be flown due to maintenance. They can make or break his flight pay. He better have their respect. If they know he has their back, they will do backflips for him. If they know he doesnt, well......

I was going to say the same exact thing. He has no idea of how bad we can f*ck up his life. As an O-1, he ain't jack****. Too bad he's going to have to learn the hard way.

USNAviator

10-04-10, 03:58 PM

Dan, thanks and he is at Pensacola right now.

Barry

This might be of some help to you re. his training

Rotary-Wing pipeline

Student pilots selected for helicopter training report to NAS Whiting Field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAS_Whiting_Field), Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida) and complete advanced training in the helicopter training squadrons there as well, flying the TH-57 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_206) Sea Ranger. Students learn the unique characteristics and tactics of rotary-wing aviation, to include basic instrument flying, night familiarization (including use of night vision goggles or NVGs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision_device)) and airways navigation. They are also introduced to shipboard landing on the Helo Landing Trainer (HLT), the Navy’s only ship dedicated to teaching helicopter pilots how to land onboard a moving vessel for Deck Landing Qualifications (DLQ).
Once they receive their Wings of Gold, Navy helicopter pilots report to their respective Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS) for training: NAS North Island, CA for the SH-60R Strikehawk (HSM), SH-60F/HH-60H Oceanhawk (HS), and MH-60S Knighthawk (HSC), NS Mayport, FL for the SH-60B Seahawk (HSL), or NS Norfolk, VA for the MH-53E Sea Dragon (HM), or the east coast MH-60S Knighthawk squadron.
Marine Corps helicopter pilots report to the FRS at MCAS New River for the CH-53D Sea Stallion and CH-53E Super Stallion, MCB Camp Pendleton for the AH-1W Super Cobra, AH-1Z Viper, UH-1N Twin Huey, UH-1Y Venom and CH-46 Sea Knight, or MCAS New River for the MV-22 Osprey.
Coast Guard helicopter pilots will report to the Coast Guard Aviation Training Center in Mobile, Alabama for the further training, or "T-Course," on the HH-60J Jayhawk and HH-65 Dolphin.
The Navy also trains pilots from several NATO and other allied nations as military and naval helicopter pilots

beznuts

10-04-10, 05:04 PM

Once he hits the fleet and has responsibilites he will be fine. Pilots are cocky mfers but it shouldn't get in the way of his profession. He'll soon find out that a 53 pilot is a glorified forklift driver and not a fighter pilot.

BarryThorn

10-04-10, 06:18 PM

Barry

This might be of some help to you re. his training

Rotary-Wing pipeline

Student pilots selected for helicopter training report to NAS Whiting Field (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAS_Whiting_Field), Florida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida) and complete advanced training in the helicopter training squadrons there as well, flying the TH-57 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_206) Sea Ranger. Students learn the unique characteristics and tactics of rotary-wing aviation, to include basic instrument flying, night familiarization (including use of night vision goggles or NVGs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision_device)) and airways navigation. They are also introduced to shipboard landing on the Helo Landing Trainer (HLT), the Navy’s only ship dedicated to teaching helicopter pilots how to land onboard a moving vessel for Deck Landing Qualifications (DLQ).
Once they receive their Wings of Gold, Navy helicopter pilots report to their respective Fleet Replacement Squadron (FRS) for training: NAS North Island, CA for the SH-60R Strikehawk (HSM), SH-60F/HH-60H Oceanhawk (HS), and MH-60S Knighthawk (HSC), NS Mayport, FL for the SH-60B Seahawk (HSL), or NS Norfolk, VA for the MH-53E Sea Dragon (HM), or the east coast MH-60S Knighthawk squadron.
Marine Corps helicopter pilots report to the FRS at MCAS New River for the CH-53D Sea Stallion and CH-53E Super Stallion, MCB Camp Pendleton for the AH-1W Super Cobra, AH-1Z Viper, UH-1N Twin Huey, UH-1Y Venom and CH-46 Sea Knight, or MCAS New River for the MV-22 Osprey.
Coast Guard helicopter pilots will report to the Coast Guard Aviation Training Center in Mobile, Alabama for the further training, or "T-Course," on the HH-60J Jayhawk and HH-65 Dolphin.
The Navy also trains pilots from several NATO and other allied nations as military and naval helicopter pilots

Thank you Dan. This helps a lot. Its sad my own son does not feel it important to open up and share things like this with his old man. I really hope Blake will shape up quick.

R Landry

10-05-10, 12:17 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiIZLDeMOg0

TazMatt

10-05-10, 04:26 PM

My last year in the Marines at Parris Island we had a boot LT. come in and try to change everything to the book way.After about a month of doing it his way and him screwing with everyone I asked him if I could have a talk with him and he said yes.I told him that I had 5 1/2 years in and that I had earned my stripes the hard way and wasn't willing to lose them over something that he was doing.We went back and forth talking and finally he said,what it comes down to Sgt.Mathis is that you don't like a boot Lt. telling you what to do .I told with all due respect that yes that was it and he asked what he could to to fix the problem and I asked to move to another section for the remainder of my time and he agreed to it and I ended up in housing under a battle axe W.M. Major.Can we say out of the pot into the fire.But everything was good did the rest of my time in housing and got out.

DrZ

10-08-10, 01:26 AM

Barry,
We had a young 2nd Lt who was sure he was God's gift to the Marine Corps. He was EXTREMELY arrogant.... until he ran into CWO4 Terry A Conner, who happened to be my OIC and back then...the 2nd most senior WO in the Corps. Gunner and I were discussing something and we didn't see this young man. He came back to us and started chewing out the Gunner (in front of me) for not delivering him the respect of a salute. BIG MISTAKE! The Gunner rendered him a salute and then walked over and talked to the base CG who happened to be one of Gunner's personal friends.

The LT was called to the visit our CO and the CG was in the office at the time. After that meeting, the LT tracked down the Gunner and apologized to him and then tracked me down ( a lowly SSgt) and apologized to me.

I don't know what the CG told him but we NEVER had issues with him again. A pilot, of any bird, will learn that if you treat your troops (plane captain, or any department) badly.... you will never get in your flight hours nor your flight pay. Somehow...the bird just seems to be grounded quite a bit!

Give him a while...he will learn. Hopefully he will grow up naturally and not the hard way of our arrogant butter bar.

BarryThorn

10-09-10, 01:18 PM

Give him a while...he will learn. Hopefully he will grow up naturally and not the hard way of our arrogant butter bar.

I certainly hope so. Asked him how things were going yesterday, all he said was "I don't want to talk about it. Wasn't a good day". He wouldn't go into details. Maybe someone took him aside for a talk.

usmc987332

10-09-10, 01:44 PM

This might be a good place to put in a thought. I have always said the the biggest mistake made on Iwo Jima was bringing in a replacement 2nd Lt. fresh out of OCS and placing him in charge that of a...

Harlee

10-09-10, 03:04 PM

Barry, I would not worry about it too much, it will work itself out. My fiance was just dropped from flight school (Primary) for primarily circumstances beyond his control, but honestly all of the guys training in Pcola have that attitude to some extent. I am a little surprised that between OCS, TBS, IFS, and Primary he managed to not get knocked down. I bet he just talks a big show for you. What OCS or TBS class was he, my fiance and him probably went through around the same time?

USNAviator

10-09-10, 03:10 PM

I certainly hope so. Asked him how things were going yesterday, all he said was "I don't want to talk about it. Wasn't a good day". He wouldn't go into details. Maybe someone took him aside for a talk.

Hi Barry

Forgot to ask is he in Primary now? If so he truly has his hands full

Supersquishy

10-09-10, 04:41 PM

Thats some words of wisdom, if he won't talk or listen to anyone maybe he will talk to you, Thats if hes smart and knows about this thread. You are a true hero and thank you for your service! Semper...

BarryThorn

10-09-10, 10:53 PM

No he is not primary yet, but he will be shortly. I think he is aware of what he is in for, and what will happen if he doesn't shape up.

03Mike

10-20-10, 11:15 AM

He better hope that it is his fellow lieutenants that help set him straight and not one of his NCOs or SNCOs.

Arrogance largely can only be fixed through humiliation.

usmc987332

10-20-10, 12:58 PM

He better hope that it is his fellow lieutenants that help set him straight and not one of his NCOs or SNCOs.

Arrogance largely can only be fixed through humiliation.
Can I adopt you and get free flight privileges?

usmc987332

10-20-10, 12:59 PM

Can I adopt you and get free flight privileges?
I thought I had Supersquishy

usmcdanno

10-20-10, 04:22 PM

He will learn, and it will be quickly. About the first time he runs up against a good GySgt, he'll know his place. Never bothered me worrying about my career for dressing down a Lt (just do it in private so not to embarrass the young man). The CO's gonna be on the Gunny's side about 99.9% of the time, so guess who's gonna win? Hopefully he will realize that SNCO's are not "telling" him what to do, but rather "how" to do it the best way. Don't worry the Corps will square his attitude away, just hopefully he doesn't let his audacity hurt his career. I don't think it will, this ain't the Corps' first rodeo.

BarryThorn

10-24-10, 02:20 PM

Thank you everyone for the advice here. I spoke with my son earlier and I think he's finally realized this attitude and thinking are not something that is going to be accepted in the military. He will be heading for NAS Meridian, Mississippi soon. I don't know if someone higher up gave him a stern talking to or pulled him aside, but all he told me was there was an incident at a bar Friday night, and that he won't be making a mistake like that again. I honestly have a feeling he might been taught a lesson the hard way.

USNAviator

10-24-10, 02:43 PM