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LONEEAGLE
09-21-03, 08:11 AM
:mad: FYI...TO FIND THIS, GO TO....www.worldnetdaily.com article by Joh Doughtery. I will soon have the date, and will post it.

greybeard
09-21-03, 08:32 AM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15402 <br />
<br />
and: <br />
<br />
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15399 <br />
<br />
YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE ... <br />
VA gives FBI health secrets...

top1371
09-21-03, 10:41 AM
Maybe I am missing the point (?)

I don't know about you, but I don't think that someone should be granted the right to carry a gun just by veteran status.

If someone is incompetent they should not have a gun, I don't care who they are. I do not want that person on the street with a gun near my kid.

Now as for the med records, if they are getting the ones from the VA, they should get all civilian records also.

Tude
09-21-03, 02:45 PM
Your missing the Point entirely Marine.

THINK ,THINK, THINK,THINK THINK.



Semper Fidelis
Jimmy/Tude:banana:

Sparrowhawk
09-21-03, 03:39 PM
was dated, TUESDAY, JUNE 27, 2000

I have not heard of any similiar news item appearing recently on this topic.

Do we know of anyone who was denied their rights to obtain weapons because of this?

I realize that BigEagle6 has stated that he was rated in this area, but it seems from his postings that he was not denied the ability to possess weapons, or did I miss that posting?

It seems if this was going on, we would have heard more about it, and more veteran orgainztions would be fighting this, as I know I would be.

I will however check my sources to find out more if this is (still?) going on...

<hr>

Humm, thinking back, I figured I would apply for PTSD, figuering the VA would rate me 10% mentally disabled.

Then I would be able to get a decent job, by going to an employer and showing him that paper the VA supplied me, showing that and ask for a job.

I figured I would be employeed right away, because I should show him the paper and ask them if they knew of anyone else that the US government had certified to be 90% sane..LOl

Humm, but they fooled me and went the other way around....

Sempers

Cook

greybeard
09-21-03, 03:44 PM
posted by Cas3 today in another thread in the va section:


In fact, the VA has nothing to do with the FBI or ATF decision to not have a weapon permit. The VA can determine incompetency, whether a veteran has PTSD or not. In most cases, incompetency is determined when a veteran cannot handle his financial affairs.

If this is true, and we must assume it is since she is more knowledgeable than most of us on the subject, then any of us, at anytime can be declared 'incompetent', if we show we lack the ability to handle our financial affairs. There are currently millions of Americans who lack the ability to handle $$, as evidenced by the numbers who are thousands of dollars behind in unsecured credit card debt. The large majority of which wouldn't hurt a fly if they had to. Since when does mismanaged financial affairs automatically equate to moral and ethical bankruptcy? If this injustice we inflicted on the civilian population, as it is on the veterans community, the outcry would tear down the halls of congress. The ACLU (I hate em) would have a field day. But, since it's only directed at the poor veteran, it's overlooked by almost everyone.

Of course we shouldn't and won't blame cas3. That's merely shooting the innocent & helpful messenger. But, we are right in
castigating the VA. They should have fought this tooth & nail, as they are better able to fight the US code than the rank & file veteran is. After all, their only reason for existence is to help the veteran, not to punish him/her.

greybeard
09-21-03, 03:47 PM
"I realize that BigEagle6 has stated that he was rated in this area, but it seems from his postings that he was not denied the ability to possess weapons, or did I miss that posting?"



yes Cook, I believe you missed it.

Sparrowhawk
09-21-03, 05:52 PM
I recently obtained another weapon, applied for it, as would anyone else.

Filled out the forms and all. Approval came without any hassle, I don't think we should have to do this at all as Americans, but it’s the law.

I guess if I had been denied because of my VA rating, I know I would be sitting on many of our US Senators desks in DC wanting answers.....

Half of them are (financially) incompetent, unable to handle their own financial affairs, drinking, or physiological problems, etc.

maybe we can throw Governor Davis in there as well, a Vietnam veteran who has led this state into billions of dollars debt

The governor should be declared as incompetent to manage the states financial

greybeard
09-21-03, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Sparrowhawk
I recently obtained another weapon, applied for it, as would anyone else.

Filled out the forms and all. Approval came without any hassle, I don't think we should have to do this at all as Americans, but it’s the law.

I guess if I had been denied because of my VA rating, I know I would be sitting on many of our US Senators desks in DC wanting answers.....

Half of them are (financially) incompetent, unable to handle their own financial affairs, drinking, or physiological problems, etc.
Yeah, but then they, for the most part, aren't vets are they? They don't have to deal with the VA beauracracy they created, or the US code they approved. We're at the bottom of the food chain so to speak, and the one entity that should be looking out for us, (the VA), has thrown us to the wolves under the old-"We're just folowing orders" . Sound familar?
Makes ya proud to be an American don't it?

greensideout
09-21-03, 07:14 PM
As firstsgtmike pointed out in an unrelated post on this site, "Checks come with strings attached". (Or something near that).

When you play someone else's game and get paid for it you will always have to play by their rules, even as they change the rules.

If you don't like the game, don't take the check!

I'm with Top 1371 on this. I would like to be assured that a person that has been allowed to obtain a weapon has had a background check for mental competance. If it includes VA records, so be it.

greybeard
09-21-03, 07:40 PM
That would depend on the basis for mental incompetence. If you were to become unemployed, (assuming for the moment you aren't drawing retirement bennies), lose your home & car to foreclosure-that could easily put you in the classification of mental incompetency because of financial irresponsibility as I understand it. As Cas3 stated herself, most incompetencies are handed out as a result of financial affairs.

& why the hell are vets having to play a game to begin with?

In case you are curious, I have no military connected disability, either mental or physical that I'm aware of (thank the Lord). IMHO, tho, anyone who believes vets get a fair shake from the govt is livin on another planet.

Sparrowhawk
09-21-03, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Tude
Your missing the Point entirely Marine.

THINK ,THINK, THINK,THINK THINK.



Semper Fidelis
Jimmy/Tude:banana: http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ch/1992/ch920909.gif

greensideout
09-21-03, 08:01 PM
graybeard,

No retirement bennies yet. I'll be up at 0400 in the morning to head for work. I've always thought that work was the best way to stay out of the poor house. lol

I think that your example of incompetence is a bit of a reach. Being a fool with your money and falling on hard times are two different things. I beleive that circumstances would be considered before judgement would be made.

I simply said that if you accept a check for anything, you will be required to return something and that the choice is yours.

Vets get a fair shake? No, mostly we get screwed, but I'm not going to let that decide how I live and enjoy life.

Semper Fi

greybeard
09-21-03, 08:29 PM
"I simply said that if you accept a check for anything, you will be required to return something and that the choice is yours"

OR

"If you accept 13 months of combat (or 4 yrs non combat) etc from a man, and screw up his life, you will be required to return whatever it takes to make him right again"

I know I'm preachin to the choir here, but it gets my BP up.

GSO, we have to remember not everyone of us were fortunate enough to come home with our heads the same way they were when went over there.
I'm done with this one-for now.

opps-wrong thread

greensideout
09-21-03, 08:42 PM
graybeard,

None of our heads are the same!

I do respect every vets position and I know that each is diferent.

Take care Marine.

Semper Fi

CAS3
09-21-03, 10:28 PM
FYI...
Incompetence comes as a result of A mental disaility AND inability to handle finances.

greybeard
09-21-03, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by CAS3 sunday night
FYI...
Incompetence comes as a result of A mental disaility AND inability to handle finances.


Originally posted by CAS3 sunday afternoon
The VA can determine incompetency, wheather a veteran has PTSD or not. In most cases, incomptency is determined when a veteran cannot handle his financial affairs

I'm confused. In one statement, you say that in most cases incompetence is based on financial misjudgement whether a vet has mental disability(PTSD) or not-('most' meaning majority I gather)
and in another statement you clearly state the opposite.

Hopefully I'll just keel over dead at work someday and never have to deal with the VA. I can easily see why it brings on so much anguish. Has anyone ever been diagnosed with PVASD?

:qmark: :banana:

CAS3
09-22-03, 12:47 AM
I was stating that a mental disability did not necessarily have to be PTSD. Depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety, etc.

Sparrowhawk
09-22-03, 07:08 AM
Bipolar disorder (manic-depressive illness) is a mood disorder, which means that the symptoms are disturbances or abnormalities of mood. Major depression is a more common illness, the symptoms of which are mainly those of 'low' mood. Bipolar disorder involves episodes of both serious mania and depression. The person's mood swings from excessively 'high' and irritable, to sad and hopeless, and then back again, with periods of normal mood in between. Different from normal mood states of happiness and sadness, symptoms of manic-depressive illness can be severe and life threatening. However, because many artists, musicians and writers have suffered from bipolar illness, the effect of the illness has sometimes been trivialised, and regarded in some way as beneficial for artistic creativity. In fact, for those afflicted with the illness, it is extremely distressing and disruptive.


Bipolar disorder is the third most common mood disorder after major depression and dysthymic disorder. It affects about 1% of adults during their lifetime. Symptoms typically begin during adolescence or early adulthood, and continue to recur throughout life. Men and women are equally likely to develop this disabling illness. The consequences of the illness can be devastating, and may include marital break-ups, unemployment, alcohol and drug abuse. Bipolar illness is often complicated by co-occurring alcohol or substance abuse. Without effective treatment, bipolar illness leads to suicide in nearly 20% of cases.


Effective treatments are available that greatly reduce the suffering caused by bipolar disorder, and can usually prevent its devastating complications. However, bipolar disorder is often not recognised by the patient, relatives, friends, or even physicians. People with bipolar disorder may suffer needlessly without proper treatment, for years or even decades. Also, many patients do not respond to at least one drug, and many show no response to several. This means that combination treatment is often the rule because a combination of different drugs with different methods of action can be more effective wiithout increasing the risk of side effects. Lithium is still the most used drug overall in mania, but mood stabilising anticonvulsants are also widely used.

For awhile I though I was BiPolar, but my wife told me we live in California LOL

http://oceans-www.jpl.nasa.gov/polar/Images_misc/penguin.gif

GunnerMike
09-22-03, 07:35 AM
I think that the point that is being missed here is this, the VA is sharing medical information with the FBI. Has anyone heard of the Department of the Navy sharing information with the VA? VA requires the veteran to obtain the information to prove any and all claims.

Neither VA or FBI has a stellar reputation for forthrightness and integrity.

LONEEAGLE
09-22-03, 12:19 PM
I've read every post about this subject. "INCOMPETENCY." Now I want to tell you this......All......The FBI/NICS, TAKES INCOMPETENCY AS MEANING, NOT ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF ANY, ANYTHING IN THIS VET'S LIFE. This is total BULLSHT. THE VA IS ALSO TOTALLY WRONG. "ADJUDICATED?" NO>>>>ONLY A COURT OF LAW CAN ADJUDICATE A PERSON "INCOMPETENT." NOT THE FRIGGIN' VA, NOT THE FED. GOV'T. PERIOD." THAT'S WHY IT SAYS, "FOR VA PURPOSES ONLY, FINANCIAL AFFAIRS." THEN THEY ADDED, "EVEN IF YOU APPEAL, YOUR REQUEST WILL BE DENIED." "WHAT DOES THIS TELL YOU?" I don't want any real, "INCOMPETENT" person, Vet, not Vet, to have access to a gun...HOW MANY IN THE LAST COUPLE YRS, HAVE ILLEGALLY OBTAINED A GUN, OR GOT ONE FROM MOM AND DAD, WENT OUT AND BLEW PEOPLE AWAY, KILLED THEMSELVES, OR WERE CAPTURED? HOW MANY OF YOU WITH PTSD HAVE EVER USED A GUN FOR ANYTHING, LIKE THE AFOREMENTIONED? The reason the FBI/NICS will not give you permission if you get it off your record is; PTSD, is considered a "MENTAL ILLNESS, by THE BOOK NOW. Yet those with PTSD, apply get a gun, without any problems. Now tell me, what is wrong with this system? THE DAMN VA, THE ROTTEN B********S, HAVE PLAYED GAMES WITH VETS. I have a checking account. Credit cards. Pay my bills on time, use my checking account. And who, with what we get from the VA, isn't in debt? Just like the commercial you may have seen. "I HAVE A LOVELY FAMILY, A NEW CAR, A SWIMMIN' POOL, A GREAT HOUSE, AND I'M IN DEBT TO MY EYEBALLS." Is this person "INCOMPETENT?" Hell no. NOT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE, OR HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR MONEY, DOESN'T MAKE YOU INCOMPETENT. It might be foolish, BUT NOT INCOMPETENT. Now I'm goin' to cry the blues here for a moment. "I SPENT MY TIME IN THE NAM." "I DID ALL THE KILLIN' I WILL EVER WANT." "I HAD GUNS WHEN I HAD FLASHBACKS BAD, AND WHEN I HAD TO BE TAKEN TO A HOSPITAL WITH SEVERE PANIC, ANXIETY ATTACKES." "THE LOCAL CO. SHERIFF'S OFFICE WOULD COME." "NOT ONCE, IN OVER FIVE TO SIX TIMES, FLOWN OUT ONCE BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ANY o2 IN MY BODY, DID I EVER GO FOR A GUN." I've tried and tried to get the FBI/NICS, VAB, (VA) TO GIVE ME ANSWER'S. They won't. Now IF I HAD THE MONEY, I COULD BEAT THIS IN COURT. AS IN MY STATE YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN I.D. CARD TO HAVE A GUN. I'M CLEAN AS A WHISTLE, BY THE HEAD OF THE STATE POLICE BACKGROUND CHECK FOR THIS. IF THEY WILL ALLOW ME TO HAVE A GUN, AND THEY HAVE CHECKED EVERYTHING, WHY WON'T THE FBI? WHY DO I WANT A WEAPON? self protection only. I CAN HAVE A BOW AND ARROW'S. IF I WANTED TO HARM ANYONE, I COULD DO IT WITH THAT COULDN'T I? I'M NO MORE INCOMPETENT THAN A MAN IN THE MOON, AND BY THE PVA....."upon investigation of your issue, we have seen that the VA does have an understanding under the Brady Bill NICS to report beneficiaries in your category. However, the VA clearly doesn't understand the laws of the "BRADY BILL." And you have means for legal action." Guess what? THE P.V.A. will not go any further. So who do you people suggest or know of, who would take on my case?

Kalbo
09-22-03, 12:55 PM
CAS3,

I'm confused by the VA Logic here, what does a person's mental status have anything to do with their financial status. This is just another example of capitalism gone bad. Using this logic, you would say that Enron and Worldcom executives were mentally stable when they were stealing money from their employee's retirement accounts. That Osama and Saddam are mentally stable because they were wealthy?? This is another example of capitalism gone bad.

How about people that do volunteer work or take a vow of poverty? I guess their nuts too? If you can justify the VA logic please explain, if not, stop towing the VA party line and open your eyes to whats going on in the real world (outside the beltway).

Kalbo

GunnerMike
09-22-03, 01:27 PM
In most cases, incomptency is determined when a veteran cannot handle his financial affairs

Can we apply this to any and all politicians who practice deficit spending? It could happen......??????

LONEEAGLE
09-22-03, 02:08 PM
THANK YOU GUNNER MIKE....JUST ANOTHER OUTSTANDING COMMENT THAT CONTINUALLY MAKES MY POINT, THAT FINANCIAL AFFAIRS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DENIAL OF RIGHTS. THE FEDS, VA.....THE VA DOESN'T HAVE ONE CLUE OF WHAT THE BRADY BILL MEANS.....FBI/NICS, ONLY LOOKS AT THE WORD, 'INCOMPETENT' NOT KNOWING THAT IT IS FOR FINANCIAL AFFAIRS ONLY. THEY ARE TAKING IT AS SOME DANGEROUS PERSON......THANKS TO ALL. PLEASE KEEP WRITING. POSTING. OH BY THE WAY....IF YOU GOT THE GUTS, WRITE YOUR SENATOR, CONGRESSMAN, AND TELL 'EM THEY ARE A BUNCH OF 'INCOMPETENT' FINANCIAL SPENDING IDIOT'S. LEAVE US VETERANS ALONE, WHEN IT COMES TO THIS IDIOTIC LAW, THE VA, CHOSE TO COMPLY WITH, NOT DIRECTED TO, AND IS STILL DOING. A CLEAR VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. BUT, EVEN WITH HOPE, IN MY LIFE TIME, I WON'T SEE ANY CHANGE, BUT IF WE FIGHT HARD ENOUGH, ALL VETERANS, WHO HAVE THE GUTS, CAN "MAKE A DIFFERENCE"!!!!! AND THE FEDS CAN KISS MY REDNECK ***!!!!

firstsgtmike
09-22-03, 03:55 PM
My three children receive Social Security Benefits. Because of their ages, 8, 3, and 1, they are considered be be incompetent to handle their own financial affairs.

Their monthly checks are Direct Deposited to their individual bank accounts which require a Trustee to handle their money for them. I am their Trustee.

I assume that when the VA rates a veteran, he is receiving payments from the VA. Does the VA require a Trustee be appointed to handle the financial affairs of every veteran they list as incompetent?

OH?

LONEEAGLE
09-22-03, 04:02 PM
First Sgt Mike. No. Only if you're "Incompetent."

CAS3
09-22-03, 05:07 PM
You are appointed a trustee if you are deemend incompetent.

KALBO,
The VA has determined that in numerous past instances, a veteran had been awarded 100% disability back to God knows when and that those 100's of thousands of dollars went to drugs and alcohol. A psychiatrist deems incompetence by past experiences. It is not based on one judgment but many sessions with the doctor.

LONEEAGLE
09-22-03, 05:17 PM
Interesting.

Kalbo
09-22-03, 06:32 PM
KALBO,
The VA has determined that in numerous past instances, a veteran had been awarded 100% disability back to God knows when and that those 100's of thousands of dollars went to drugs and alcohol. A psychiatrist deems incompetence by past experiences. It is not based on one judgment but many sessions with the doctor.


Thanks for the answer Cas3, but this makes me more confused. Addictions (drug, alcohol, nicatine) can all be stopped. If this is part of the criteria the VA uses for mental incompetence, then what I'm hearing is that even after you overcome these addictions, the FBI working on outdated information from the VA, will still prevent you from purchase a firearm?

This also brings up another question regarding "approval to release information" forms. I have to sign these forms if I want another doctor to see my information that the VA holds. I have never signed a "release of information form" that says the VA can give any information about me to the FBI!!! And I've asked and been told numerous times that anything I talk about to the doctors in confidential.

The more I think about it the more ****ed off I am. I don't even want a firearm. What bothers me is that who is this information being shared with??? And with all the hackers out there, how is this information safeguarded???? George Orwell was right, Big Brother is watching.

Bill

Kyrifleman68
09-22-03, 08:10 PM
Try to stop me . All I have to do is go to a Flea market and get all we wont. You name it they have it.

CAS3
09-22-03, 09:51 PM
Kalbo,
If you are not trying to request a weapon permit, you have nothing to worry about.
Goverment agencies can disclose info to each other according to 38 CFR 5.
What you tell a doc is confidential unless there is reason to believe you may harm yourself or someone else. That has always been the way all docs do business. Not just VA.

Kalbo
09-22-03, 10:07 PM
CAS3,

Where can I find this 38 CFR 5???

I understand that Docs must inform authorities if a person is in jeopardy of harming him/her self or other. I just DO NOT understand that any of my confidential information is going to the FBI without my written approval.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read in this thread that the VA gives a file to the FBI containing information on people declared incompentent by the VA. Even though I don't want a firearm, I want to know if I'm on this file, who sees it, how is it safeguarded, and why wasn't I made aware of this.

Please explain Collen!!
Bill

CAS3
09-23-03, 12:21 PM
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/5/1304.html

That is the link to the exact law. Check it out.
Ask your docs if they have given any info and they will tell you.
If you haven't applied there is no record.

firstsgtmike
09-23-03, 12:44 PM
"The memo said the information transfer to the FBI "consisted of data on 88,898 beneficiaries........"

Is it improper to assume that each of the 88,898 incompetent beneficiaries are required to have a Trustee handle their finances?

If so, then if you have not be required by the VA to have a Trustee handle your financial affairs, your name would not be on the list of incompetent beneficiaries that was provided to the FBI.

Kalbo
09-24-03, 07:21 AM
Collen,

Are the following quoted sections the one you were referring to (the ones the VA feels gives them the right to transmit VA patients prognosis to the FBI other government agencies). Please correct me if these are not sections that you meant, I got these from the link you posted earlier).

If they are, I have to take serious issue with what the VA is doing with private patient-doctor information.


loyalty of the individual being investigated is questionable

My understanding of this is, that the VA feels it can justify sending a doctors confidential diagnosis to the FBI because of his/her diagnosis he/she is considered to be in questionable loyalty.

Is this the VA logic? I'm trying to understand this. Please help me understand!!!!

Bill





(b)

When an investigation under subsection (a) of this section develops data indicating that the loyalty of the individual being investigated is questionable, the Office shall refer the matter to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for a full field investigation, a report of which shall be furnished to the Office for its information and appropriate action.

(c)

When the President considers it in the national interest, he may have the investigations of a group or class, which are required by subsection (a) of this section, made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation rather than the Office.

(d)

The investigation and report required by subsection (a) of this section shall be made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation rather than the Office for those specific positions which the Secretary of State certifies are of a high degree of importance or sensitivity.

Kalbo
09-24-03, 09:52 AM
From the VBA Website:



"We are dealing with veterans, not procedures –
with their problems, not ours."
Omar Bradley; 1947

As we carry out this mission, we willfully enter into a covenant with one another to always be guided by the fundamental principles of Accountability, Integrity, and Professionalism. These principles form the foundation of Leadership and Service to America’s veterans.


I don't know of any professional organization that gives their client information to outsiders without a court order. REMFs

LONEEAGLE
09-24-03, 10:02 AM
You're right Kalbo, but remember you're dealin' with the VA. Professional? I'm not sure about this. :-)

CAS3
09-24-03, 10:23 AM
Please do not take this the wrong way.
Since I do not work for the VA, I am asking each of you (those who are worried about this subject) to contact your congressman. Ask their opinion of the VA giving other goverment organizations your diagnosis.

The VA (Veteran Benefit Admin and Veteran Health Admin) does not give out your medical progress reports but they can give diagnosis to other goverment agencies. Social Security can do the same thing.

I will not respond to this thread any longer. It started with a question about a weapons permit. In my opinion, no imcompetent person should own a weapon.

Yes, if you are deemed incompetent, a trustee is appointed.

I am not going to respond to this any longer because of the paraniod persons who think the goverment is out to get them. I assist veterans and I think these persons need some serious counseling. The goverment has its faults but they are not in the business to attack INDIVIDUALS. They set policies and procedures that will assist the MAJORITY of the population.

I am sorry if I could not clear up the idea that the VA can give out diagnosis (especially about persons who may be dangerous and unable to see reality) to other goverment agencies in order to protect the majority of the population.

Kalbo
09-24-03, 10:27 AM
The following is a section of HIPAA regulations. This information can be accessed at http://www.hipaadvisory.com/regs/

[QUOTE]
D. Section 164.506--Uses and Disclosures for Treatment, Payment, and Health Care Operations

2. Disclosures for Treatment, Payment, or Health Care Operations of Another Entity

December 2000 Privacy Rule

The Privacy Rule permits a covered entity to use and disclose protected health information for treatment, payment, or health care operations. For treatment purposes, the Rule generally allows protected health information to be shared without restriction. The definition of "treatment" incorporates the necessary interaction of more than one entity. In particular, the definition of "treatment" includes the coordination and management of health care among health care providers or by a health care provider with a third party, consultations between health care providers, and referrals of a patient for health care from one health care provider to another. As a result, covered entities are permitted to disclose protected health information for treatment purposes regardless of to whom the disclosure is made, as well as to disclose protected health information for the treatment activities of another health care provider.
[QUOTE]

Has the VBA read the HIPAA Regulations? Nowhere do I see that the release of treatment information includes giving a doctors diagnosis to other organizations for purposes of making a decision for the purchase of a firearm. Futher, there is no indication that the patients "loyalty" needs to be disclosed.

WTF Over

CAS3
09-24-03, 10:38 AM
As a result, covered entities are permitted to disclose protected health information for treatment purposes regardless of to whom the disclosure is made, as well as to disclose protected health information for the treatment activities of another health care provider.

Has the VBA read the HIPAA Regulations? Nowhere do I see that the release of treatment information includes giving a doctors diagnosis to other organizations for purposes of making a decision for the purchase of a firearm. Futher, there is no indication that the patients "loyalty" needs to be disclosed.

WTF Over [/B][/QUOTE]

Please stop this nonsence now. You are taking quotes from something the VA does not use.
Also, this has no importance to the topic at hand. It is stating what other medical professionals use to share medical information for TREATMENT. Not disclosure for other purposes.
You are not reading the Code of Federal Regulations. That is the LAWS that goverment agencies are amndated by.
In my opinion, This thread should be closed because it is not assisting anyone here. It is placing fear in people who are already paranoid about the goverment.

Kalbo
09-24-03, 10:54 AM
I am sorry that Collen has seen this as a personal attack and understand if she cannot defend the VBA procedures.

From my standpoint, what the VBA is doing here is against our rights as Veterans and Americans. Where does this stop, today we give information to the FBI about our confidential medical diagnosis, tommorow they want more. Once the door is open, it is hard to close. If the VBA feels they can get away with giving information out about those least able to defend themselves, I think they are sadly mistaken.


The VA (Veteran Benefit Admin and Veteran Health Admin) does not give out your medical progress reports but they can give diagnosis to other goverment agencies. Social Security can do the same thing.

As per above post regarding HIPAA regulations, the Social Security Administration is not A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER .



I will not respond to this thread any longer. It started with a question about a weapons permit. In my opinion, no imcompetent person should own a weapon.


And this opinion was formed by your degree in Psychatiry? By your being a Board Certified Psychatrist? By your years of education in Psychatry.



I am not going to respond to this any longer because of the paraniod persons who think the goverment is out to get them. I assist veterans and I think these persons need some serious counseling. The goverment has its faults but they are not in the business to attack INDIVIDUALS. They set policies and procedures that will assist the MAJORITY of the population.


Again your logic confuses me. I have expressed concerns that information that my doctors have told me was confidential and now I found out goes who knows where. I guess the game here is to attack the attacker (ie. paranoid persons (I guess with all your education in psychatry you forget how to spell "Paranoid"?))

Collen, this was not an attack on you, and I am sorry you took it that way. With all the leaking of information from corporations, other goverment agencies, etc, I thought you would be able to understand the concern a patient has about their confidentialty of what goes on between them and their doctors. I think this inablity to understand these concerns, show a fundemental lack of cocern about Americans and Veterans rights.

Bill

Kalbo
09-24-03, 11:03 AM
What Government-Funded Health Plans are covered under HIPAA:



Definitions:
*Government-funded Health Plans
The listed government-funded health plans are: the Medicare program under Title XVIII of the Social Security Act (Parts A, B and C) (42 U.S.C. 1395, et seq.); the Medicaid program under Title XIX of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1396, et seq.); the health care program for active military personnel (10 U.S.C. 1074, et seq.); the veterans health care program (38 U.S.C. Ch.17); the Civilian Health and Medical Program of the Uniformed Services (CHAMPUS) (10 U.S.C. 1061, et seq.); the Indian Health Service program under the Indian Health Care Improvement Act (25 U.S.C. 1601); the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program (5 U.S.C. Ch. 89); and approved state child health programs under Title XXI of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1397, et seq.) (SCHIP)

LONEEAGLE
09-24-03, 11:07 AM
My opinion.....No attack on anyone....This thread which I started opened the eyes of many. Paranoid or not. And shed some light on the entire subject. It has really helped me. I thank CAS 3 for her input, and all other's that have submitted their opinions/suggestions. If I may....I have contacted Congressman/Senator's over this issue. And what they do is send a letter to the NICS. In turn, the NICS sends them a letter back. And nothing is done.....I've also contacted the VBA. Got nowhere. In these days, time of terror/etc./ and with the new law, where the U.S. attorney Gen. has been goin' across this great nation promoting, to try and get any of this subject corrected I think would be impossible. It saddens my heart that I fought for this country, would again, then get stricken with an illness, and then forbade any right to self protection, having to rely upon local law enforcement. But I guess that's the way it is, and I'll deal with it. I despise the very mention in the law of "LOYALTY." I despise the fact, "NATIONAL SECURITY." Neither two are about me, and I would hope never for any Veteran. I too won't mention it again. I feel though the thread should remain open for a little while longer, just in case a member hasn't read all, and now can get what CAS 3, Kalbo, myself have put on the thread. USC 5a. Give it another week. Then whomever has the authority, can close it. Would that be okay? Veterans are always last in the chain, but first when it comes to "NOT" getting what they all deserve. Submitted with the utmost respect, dignity, honor, loyality, to my fellow Veterans, and to my Country. God Bless us all.

Sparrowhawk
09-24-03, 11:08 AM
it has no value as we are no longer discussing but rehassing issues over and over again, and the answers that have been given have been ignored.


It seems someone is posting someone else's response.
That's the same reason I stopped posting on this tread or answering emails on this subject..


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

1. The Veteran Get's The Shaft

2. US CODE., Or usc.5.a

3. VA Gives FBI Health Secrets

4. say What?!!!" Cas3


5. UNDER USC. 5a THE VA, WAS INSTRUCTED

All these treads on the same topic posted here but going around in circles.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


Close all these treads....

Cook

Kalbo
09-24-03, 11:12 AM
I agree that this is important information for all Veterans to be aware of. I think closing this thread would also give others the appearance that this sight does not allow free flow of conversation of information that pertains Veterans.

Semper Fi,
Bill

Red Dragon
09-24-03, 11:23 AM
I have read all the posts in this thread. I have seen that all the questions have been answered. I have noticed that the same questions are being asked over and over again but in a different way. If you have a medical problem it is up to you to handle that situation. The law is the law, it is there for the protection of the people, if you don't like the laws, do something about them, until then don't blame others for your problems and/or take them out on those who are trying to help you.

Red Dragon aka HL

LONEEAGLE
09-24-03, 11:23 AM
One more opinion, then that's it....."Incompetent." In the Webster's 9th edition, New Collegiate Dictionary it says: "Not legally qualified." "Inadequate to or unsuitable for a particular purpose." "Lacking the qualities needed for effective action." "Unable to function properly." The VA can adjudicate one as "INCOMPETENT" for VA purposes only, financial affairs. This does not mean you are any of the above. Only a court of law, by a judge, with sufficient evidence to prove "UNABLE TO FUNCTION PROPERLY" submitted by creditable reason, can declare you "INCOMPETENT." What I'm saying is; when a Veteran has "INCOMPTENT" on his/her medical records, the denying party, entity, must have a "COURT DOCUMENT" and what the word means must be proven. Not taken as in the literal sense of the meaning without a thorough based check. That is all.

Kalbo
09-24-03, 11:48 AM
This is my last post on this thread and other threads regarding this same problem. I will take it up with my VA patient advocate and congressman/senators as advised. I read the orginal post and said WHOA, where is my confidential information going, let me ask some questions and get some answers. To this, I was called "Paranoid" by someone this sight represents as a "VA Guru".

I am surprised by some of the recent comments stating that this was placing "blame" on other people posting. That was not my intention at all. I again I am sorry Collen took this as a personal attack. It is an "attack", not against Collen, but against VA & VBA policy and procedures.

If you want to close the thread fine, but allow others to read and make their own opinions.

Bill

CAS3
09-24-03, 11:58 AM
Bill, I never called anyone paranoid. I said this thread was effecting those who are paranoid about the goverment.

I take nothing as a personal attack. Nor do I start a personal attack on anyone here. (Except Cook and how he wants me to model the new uniform!)

I have tried to help people understand what the goverment can do and was immediately referred to as a representative of the goverment. I AM NOT. I AM A VETERAN REPRESENTATIVE. I AM HERE TO ASSIST VETERANS AS MUCH AS I CAN. There has been so much confusion on the subject of what the goverment has access to. And this all started because of someone deemed incompetent wanting a weapon permit. If you have not applied then you have nothing o worry about.
An individual's records are not open to all goverment agencies unless they are applying for another goverment assistance/benefit

GunnerMike
09-26-03, 09:07 AM
"A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie."
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

LONEEAGLE
09-26-03, 09:44 AM
GunnerMike? What is "BOURGEOISE?"

LONEEAGLE
09-26-03, 09:46 AM
Never mind. I looked it up. Sounds good to me.

travissoleski
09-26-03, 11:12 AM
Okay Marines:

Yesterday I made what I thought was an important phone call to the NRA Q&A line. The lady must have been reading from a script but she was helpful in one way only, she made certian that this information would be pasted on, without question. I made such a big deal about it to her she put me on hold and got her supervisor on the phone. Since I work at the VA I must be very careful in what I say. They "MIGHT" do a story on it. Don't hold your breath, but it would be good since I know many of us are gun owners and NRA members. Please tell me anyone, if they would additionally be willing to call the NRA and make a big stink like I did. I will be happy to disclose the number.
Semper Fi
SKI

LONEEAGLE
09-26-03, 12:10 PM
The Eagle would. I wrote to them one time, and got nothing. I was a member once, but, when they didn't give me any reply, I quit them. Tell me what you said. Go to my personal e-mail pso_bail6675@earthlink.net, and tell me about it, I'll sure do it. Thank you.

greybeard
09-26-03, 10:56 PM
I said this thread was effecting those who are paranoid about the goverment
lol, wonder what it does to the other 10% of the population?

"We are your govt-you can trust us"
yeah buddy!!

LONEEAGLE
09-27-03, 10:40 AM
Uh Huh...."trust?" "Gov't?" In your dreams.