Heartbreak Ridge--worst movie ever or just bad?

[Garyius]

Heartbreak Ridge was just on AMC.

I must have seen it before I went in, and never since. What a bunch of stupid crap.

To hit the worst part, my cats have a better grasp of fire team and squad tactics. The newest boot could do a better job before MCT.

However, the whole thing sucked.

[WXSgt]

BLASPHEMY! lol naw if your looking at it like that yes but i still love the movie

[Integrity57]

lol I was just thinking about that movie yesterday, it's a couple pratt falls short of being the USMC version of Police Academy.

[Kegler300]

The first half of the movie was mildly entertaining...

[awbrown1462]

worst movie was boys in Co. C

[josephd]

hahahahaha...the movie is pretty bad but Clint Eastwood is awesome and has some good one liners in there

[Kegler300]

worst movie was boys in Co. C

What about Baby Blue Marine?

http://filmfanatic.org/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Kirby2.JPG

[Quinbo]

Although obviously fiction I thought it was entertaining.

[PaidinBlood]

It is an awesome movie...even though it's full of "mistakes" and misconceptions they are just there to provide a foil for GUNNY HIGHWAY...:usmc:

[Lynn2]

Yes it was a really bad movie.

But what an accurate spot on view of what USMC Recon is really like.

Sort of like an angry grown up version of the Bad News Bears although with fire arms.

I wonder who the technical advisor was for that one? Clint? Or Mrs Clint?

[AAV Crewchief]

Yes it was a really bad movie.

But what an accurate spot on view of what USMC Recon is really like.

Sort of like an angry grown up version of the Bad News Bears although with fire arms.

I wonder who the technical advisor was for that one? Clint? Or Mrs Clint?

When were you ever in recon?

[jetdawgg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBeYB6RRQ5c&feature=related

Not a real good movie, but entertaining. Not even close to "FMJ":usmc:

[sparkie]

Only thing I liked was the tee shirt collection. Waisting a 6 pack of beer was just wrong.

[gkmoz]

Clint like Ermie was and is dead on in their depiction of an old "Gunny" The movie was typical None Hackers not ever being in the Marines or any military for that matter. IMHO S/F :flag: Moz

[Lynn2]

When were you ever in recon?


You mean like 13 months worth of small team patrols and combat?


I believe I was if I remember correctly.



p.s. I hope no one was stupid enough to take my comments at face value?

[AAV Crewchief]

Never heard of too many docs going on LRRPs.

[jetdawgg]

http://www.hboasia.com/images/posters/378x195/heartbreak_ridge.jpg

[Lynn2]

Never heard of too many docs going on LRRPs.

Actually too many Docs did not go on LRRP's.

Only one a Team for the most part.

Do you know much or anything about Recon work in VN from any first hand knowledge?

I went on approx 60 of them. Although thats a somewhat misleading # since a few of those only lasted a couple of minutes. :-(

You may want to spend $6 and buy Doc USN/Major USMC Bruce Nortons book(s) on his time in Recon and VN as a Corpsman.

He goes into much discussion of his 13 months of missions and the several times he served as Team Leader for the patrol.

You could also get Larry Vetters book "Never Without Heroes---3rdRecon in VN"

Lots of references in Larry's book to Docs on missions----Docs getting hit----Docs getting killed.

We had 3 Docs in a line company back then.

And they went on missions each and every time their Team went out.

[Lynn2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/09/AR2005050901300_pf.html

If you are really interested AAV here is an article that deals with my replacement (not a one to one replacement as such----I left and he came in shortly after) Doc Miller and the patrol he was on when he was killed.

That article came out the day we buried him and those 3 Marines that came home with him.

[Lynn2]

And this may be of some interest. Its a run down for the year 1967 for my small BN.

5 Corpsman KIA and 41 WIA for that year may or may not seem like a large number.

But when you compare it to the number of Marines overall and the number of Corpsman overall it looks to me that Docs got hit in far greater #'s % wise than their Marine co-workers.

High risk ugly work for sure.

[William Hardy]

What about Baby Blue Marine?

http://filmfanatic.org/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Kirby2.JPG
That's an oldie - Richard Greer played "Whitey" the Marine who took the blue suit and left his uniform. Was a rather bad movie.
It is much worst than Heartbreak Ridge.

[Kegler300]

I actually went to a movie theater and paid to see this movie when it first came out...I as a corporal at the time...I wasted 2 hours of my life...

[Vandrel]

Heartbreak Ridge was just on AMC.

I must have seen it before I went in, and never since. What a bunch of stupid crap.

To hit the worst part, my cats have a better grasp of fire team and squad tactics. The newest boot could do a better job before MCT.

However, the whole thing sucked.


Meh....




I got a moto-boner every time they showed AAV's

[Danny C Smith]

HBR was all bull puckey and we all know it.
Just entertainment that was fun to watch.
And still is:beer:
I always thought Gunny Highway was a sweatheart compaired to
the Gunnys I served for and with.
Didn't see the movie until after my eas in 90.
Rented the damn thing in 91 and my non Marine Brother
thought it was bad ass! LOL!!!
He said "Bro, you guys are some bad F%&^*(S"
I just agreed.
The numbnuts is twice my size and still says that I'm the only
person on this Earth that scares him.:banana:
Sumbich would probably kill me if he ever actually hit me though.
who knows, some day I might get lucky, LOL!!!

[Lynn2]

And this may be of some interest. Its a run down for the year 1967 for my small BN.

5 Corpsman KIA and 41 WIA for that year may or may not seem like a large number.

But when you compare it to the number of Marines overall and the number of Corpsman overall it looks to me that Docs got hit in far greater #'s % wise than their Marine co-workers.

High risk ugly work for sure.


http://www.alphareconassociation.org/patrols67.htm

It works better when I post the actual link

[Nick Valdez]

We all know that it was just a movie, but the bad thing about it, is that people believe what they see.

[USNAviator]

My two cents and I'll wait for channge

HBR and Baby Blue have their entertainment value. If anyone thinks they depict reality, well maybe they think Top Gun represented Naval Air as being real :thumbdown

But on the plus side think of all the good to great ones. One that I don't see mentioned much is a favorite of mine "The D.I" with Jack Webb. I can only imagine how much that movie would have been different if Webb could have made it in the 80's instead of the 50's. I still laugh at his description about the poor dead sand flea

[Nick Valdez]

Cmdr. O'Shea, the DI was a classic. Semper Fi.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

HBR was accurate....to a "point". Nothing more. Uniforms were correct, and the Marine Corps actually sponsored the movie (the 'Grenada' landing was actually Vieques, PR...back when we still were able to use that). Historically it was a nightmare (Recon platoon wins battle LOL) but I thought the interactions weren't far off. BTW, the Marine Corps 'withdrew' sponsorship of the film after they saw the completed product. "Too much cursing". (No kidding).

Loved 'The DI'. Jack Webb was an anal retentive guy when it came to details, in everything he did. This one was no exception. Lots of real Marines were in it as well.

Baby Blue Marine.....Pfffffft. Boys in Company C was actually an adaptation of "Rumor of War" by Phillip Caputo. Not one of the better H/wood movies to be sure.

There are plenty of other 'bad' USMC movies out there....but I like watching HBR from time to time. Would LOVE to get "The DI" on DVD someday.

[USNAviator]

Cmdr. O'Shea, the DI was a classic. Semper Fi.

Thanks Nick, I liked the fact they used real Marines in the supporting roles which they reveal at the end of the movie. You are right. It's a classic!!! :thumbup:

Dan

[USNAviator]

. Would LOVE to get "The DI" on DVD someday.


Jason

Sad to hear the D.I isn't out on DVD. Yes Webb was anal retentive LOL but he turned out some good stuff. I'm showing my age but any man who would kick Julie London to the curb was weird (Google her, those of you under 30 or even 40 LOL)

[Phantom Blooper]

http://www.amazon.com/D-I-Jack-Webb/dp/B002EAYDUC

:evilgrin:

[SlingerDun]

It felt like i knew all those surly cats at the beggining of HBR; chillin around the rec hut with a ghetto blaster, (but no beer cans or mouthing off to SNCO's) and if they were ever assembled in the same platoon it was at CCU:marine:

[Nick Valdez]

Cmd. O'Shea, Amen

Deacon Nick

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Oh, believe me, I know. (About Julie London). Apparently there were no hard feelings, since she and Bobby Troup got married, and then went on to 'Emergency' fame.

I've got a few of her records, too....SMOKIN hot.

[rktect3j]

I love this movie. I think you have to remember, it's a MOVIE not a DOCUMENTARY. The last thing I want to watch is the actuality of what I went through. I say hamm it up a bit and enjoy.

[Lynn2]

"The last thing I want to watch is the actuality of what I went through."

Interesting comment.

At my age there are two things I want to live long enough to see. The first is how my grandkids grown into adulthood.

The 2nd is a serious well done accurate presentation (mini-series or movie) of USMC small Team Reconnaissance work in Vietnam.

I have seen a lot of VN stuff on film. But never this aspect. And Recon work in VN was a 24/7 major part of that war like we may never see again.

I may not live long enough for the latter but its #2 on my wish list.

I did make this suggestion to the head writer and a producer of the HBO series The Pacific awhile back.

I am not holding my breath on that one.

[USNAviator]

Oh, believe me, I know. (About Julie London). Apparently there were no hard feelings, since she and Bobby Troup got married, and then went on to 'Emergency' fame.

I've got a few of her records, too....SMOKIN hot.

Julie was "hot" before anyone knew what it meant. She had "bedroom" everything :D

And I'm not certain but I believe part of The D.I was filmed at P.I. and when they crank up the Hymn at the closing of the movie, man that is something. They start it off slow and let it build

[Lynn2]

Forget a stupid movie that will take something serious and turn it into a really bad movie in an attempt to get some cheap laughs that never seemed to come. This below is the reality. The real history.


And sadly a real history that so many even Marines know so little about:



The Following is the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalions
Patrol History for the Year 1967



Source: Command Chronologies 3rd Recon Battalion, Marine Corps Historical Center, <st1:state><st1>Washington</st1></st1:state>, D.C



Patrols 1,327 <o></o>



Average Days Per Patrol N/A <o></o>



Number Men Per Patrol N/A<o></o>



Sightings 1,257 <o></o>



NVA/VC Sighted 14,121 <o></o>



Contacts 386 <o></o>



Fire Missions 884 <o></o>



Artillery Rounds Fired 38,574 <o></o>



Air Strikes 321 <o></o>



NVA/VC KIA (C) 882 <o></o>



NVA/VC KIA (P) 1,810 <o></o>



NVA/VC Captured 13/2 DOW <o></o>



USMC KIA 48 <o></o>



USN KIA 5 <o></o>



USMC WIA 410 <o></o>



USN WIA 41 <o></o>



Captured Weapons 79
<o></o>

On <st1:date year="1967" day="1" month="6">01 June 1967</st1:date>, the authorized strength was 32 Officers, 432 Enlisted - USMC. 1 Officer, 23 Enlisted USN. Five letter companies were designated as A, B, C, D, and H & S. <o></o>

Source: Reconnaissance Battalion, Marine Division, Fleet Marine Force, Revision Number 2 of Tables Of Organization Number M-1428: Marine Corps Historical Center, <st1><st1:city>Washington</st1:city><st1:state>D.C.</st1:state></st1><o></o>


<hr align="center" width="100%" size="2">

Before we can draw any conclusions from these statistics, a little explanation is in order. In reviewing the U.S. Marine Corps historical records for the Vietnam era that are on file, a casualty is generally defined as either personnel either killed In action or wounded requiring hospitalization. WIA’s would not be tallied here if the man just received a patch up and was returned to his unit. <o></o>

If you look at the authorized strength of the battalion and total up the casualties the 3rd Recon Battalion lost an entire battalion during 1967. The only statistic that may be in error, due to the inherent problem of recording possible enemy losses, is the "probable" enemy losses, however since the Marine Corps recorded these totals we will assume they are accurate for this discussions. <o></o>

This is what the statistics reveal: <o></o>


Patrols: Assuming the entire T/O strength of the battalion was deployed in the field for 365 days, that's equivalent to each Marine in the battalion continuously turning around 2.7 day patrols.<o></o>
Sightings: 3.4 per day<o></o>
NVA/VC sighted: The equivalent of three T/O divisions including separate battalion combat support / logistics elements.<o></o>
Contacts: 1.05 per day.<o></o>
Fire missions: 2.42 per day.<o></o>
Artillery rounds fired: 106 per mission.<o></o>
Air Strikes: 0.88 per day.<o></o>
Ratio of enemy KIA ( confirmed) to T/O battalion strength: 1.05 - 1.0<o></o>
Ratio of enemy KIA (c), KIA (p) and enemy captured to T/O battalion strength: 5.5 -<st1:time minute="0" hour="13">1:00</st1:time><o></o>
Ratio of enemy KIA (c) to USMC/USN KIA. 16.6 -1:00<o></o>

* Percentage of 3rd Recon Bn T/O strength KIA/WIA (evac) I January 1967 - 31 December 1967: 103% <o></o>


<hr align="center" width="100%" size="2">

These figures serve only as a rough indicator of 3rd Recon Battalion’s performance during the year, since they are based on T/O strength including Headquarters and Service Company and are not factored for attrition and absences of all types. In reality, a manning level of 60-70% of T/O strength more accurately reflects the availability of personnel able to perform in the field on any given day. Conversely, the numbers of enemy casualties and sightings are suspect due to the likelihood of redundant sighting reports and the nature of assessing probable KIA’s. This analysis is based on figures generated by 3rd Recon Battalion as reflected by the command chronology and unit diary entries for the period. The usage and categorization of these figures are consonant with the quantitative measures typically used to assess unit performance during the Vietnam War. <o></o>

Quoting from Larry Vetter’s, Marine Third Reconnaissance Battalion in <st1:country-region><st1>Vietnam</st1></st1:country-region>, 1965-70, he states: <o></o>

“In <st1:country-region><st1>Vietnam</st1></st1:country-region> there was never a universally accepted or understood mission for the recon unit. It might be better said that that the Recon mission was modified with each new commanding officer or general. The Recon team is not structured to be a combat unit.” (NEVER WITHOUT HEROES: Marine Third Reconnaissance Battalion in Vietnam 1965-70, Lawrence C. Vetter, Jr., Random House, 1996) <o></o>

In a previous paragraph, Mr. Vetter cites a tendency by command levels above the Reconnaissance Battalion to “hoard” intelligence, and a failure to disseminate information vital to Recon teams conducting missions. While Mr. Vetter’s point is well taken, one can make the case that a failure to provide Recon teams with tactical intelligence was calculated, and a matter of policy within the 3rd Marine Division. <o></o>

The 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion’s primary mission of clandestine observation and intelligence gathering, from the point of view of III MAF Commander’s Cushman and Davis, was subservient to a requirement to project combat power beyond the capabilities of the infantry battalion. <o></o>

Given the hundreds of square miles assigned the division, the divergent missions it performed and the associate logistics difficulties, the ability of the infantry to seek out and destroy the enemy was limited. Designed to fight in a landing force configuration with a battalion as its primary maneuver element, Marine artillery support and rotary wing assets were configured accordingly. Given the circumstances in Northern I Corps in 1967, the Marine Division fragmented into task organized elements occupying fixed outposts and logistics bases while performing offensive, defensive and pacification missions simultaneously. <o></o>

Organic artillery and rotary wing assets were inadequate to support the concurrent operational tempo and forced to prioritize competing demands. Consequently, Marine Infantry forces were most typically required to operate in close proximity to their fixed positions. Therefore, the mission of “finding, fixing and fighting” the enemy in their remote sanctuaries, presented significant problems. <o></o>

The Division’s Recon Battalion picked up the slack. Although, senior commanders cavorted the use of Recon troops with the mention of “intelligence gathering” as a mission component, both Davis and Cushman emphasized the use of Recon teams as an offensive unit. It is likely that existing intelligence was denied to Recon forces since as a general rule they were deployed in known areas of enemy concentrations. Rather than performing their primary mission, 3rd Recon teams served as mini-infantry companies, deployed to make and prosecute contacts through close contact and further exploit them with supporting arms. <o>

</o> Mr. Vetter cites a <st1:date year="1967" day="3" month="12">December 3, 1967</st1:date> memo from General Cushman to General Westmoreland, advancing this aggressive use of Recon troops as the “Sting-Ray” concept. It should be noted that neither General Cushman nor the men under his command were the original developers of this concept. He was following the policy set in place by the CG FMF PAC, and CG 3rd MAF- Generals Krulak and Walt at the conclusion of Operation Hastings which took place during the summer of 1966. Marine Commanders observed the tremendous toll inflicted upon the enemy by these recon teams and the term "Sting Ray" was born. The Recon Teams that composed Task Unit Charlie, during "<st1:city><st1>Hastings</st1></st1:city>" were a composite unit made up from two plts Alpha Company, 1st Force, and a platoon from 3rd Force. This philosophy on the use of Recon assets continued throughout the war. <o></o>

It is certain that Recon commanders knew that troops under their command were being attrited at an inordinate rate in order to perform an infantry mission on the budget plan, but the teams were not officially apprised of the concept. Nor were they staffed or equipped to perform it. Substituting the term “manager” for “leader,” this approach makes perfect business sense, and may speak to the character of the quality of leadership within Third Recon Battalion and the Third Marine Division. From the statistical, cost-benefit analysis manner in which results were tabulated in the Vietnam War the figures cited above was a manager’s dream. It is small wonder that Third Recon Battalion was used, literally, to death. <o></o>

Our "production rate," 16.6 - 1:00 - Sixteen and a fraction enemy deaths for each death of our own - was doubtlessly viewed as a cost effective trade-off in an environment in which “win” or “loose” was only defined by graphs and charts depicting “body counts.” Since the Recon Battalion and Company Commanders were primarily administrators, tasked with providing a sufficiency of teams to perform the missions required, but performing no operational leadership role, it is likely that these numbers held them in good stead. In light of the statistical weight of the enemy we killed, our own considerable losses presumably went unnoticed by those who compiled the numbers, and by those who were rewarded by the virtuousness of the “leadership” contained within those ranks and files of figures.

<o></o>
But let us find pride, not in the numbers, but in the memories of the Sergeants and Pfc.’s and Corpsmen who ran the patrols week after week and month after month for no other reward than doing what we called “duty;” for doing something we believed was worth doing, and above all, doing it for and with men who shared both the misery and joy of working together as a team of Recon Marines." <o></o>

(http://s10.sitemeter.com/stats.asp?site=s10reconmarine)

[PaidinBlood]

Dumb question, but what was the little case the drill instructors carried on the back of their cartridge belts in the movie? Looks like an eyeglass case but somehow I doubt that... :usmc:

[Wyoming]

Dumb question, but what was the little case the drill instructors carried on the back of their cartridge belts in the movie? Looks like an eyeglass case but somehow I doubt that... :usmc:

Been a while for me, but did they not carry ID and cigarettes?

[kenrobg30]

Julie was "hot" before anyone knew what it meant. She had "bedroom" everything :D

And I'm not certain but I believe part of The D.I was filmed at P.I. and when they crank up the Hymn at the closing of the movie, man that is something. They start it off slow and let it build

I watch HBR, every chance I get. Admitted, It's a fantasy, but it is entertainment. If I think about it, I grit my teeth, thinking, it;s no wonder Clint is round shouldered. He had to carry that whole load of BS, on his back.
As for Jack Webb, I liked watching him, even when he had a bad script. As for JULIE < I'm still in love with her. :evilgrin: S/F!!! Ken

[PaidinBlood]

Been a while for me, but did they not carry ID and cigarettes?

I thought so but man-pouches aren't authorized on our chucks...didn't realize they ever were... :banana:

[kenrobg30]

I thought so but man-pouches aren't authorized on our chucks...didn't realize they ever were... :banana:


we carried our cigarettes in our socks. Matches or lighter, in a side pocket. We field stripped the buts, and if it had a filter, Bury it, or eat it. DO NOT DROP IT !! Times, in Korea, if we had a t-shirt, we rolled the pack in the short sleeve of the shirt. Did you ever dig a hole, four feet deep, and four feet long and wide to bury a butt ? I didn't, but I saw it done! :evilgrin: S/F!! kEN

[ecfree]

Dumb question, but what was the little case the drill instructors carried on the back of their cartridge belts in the movie? Looks like an eyeglass case but somehow I doubt that... :usmc:
FIRST AID KIT,NUMBNUTS:evilgrin:

[ToddDrumm]

Have to go with both and worst Clint Movie ever to boot.
1st half was a so so comedy then it trys morph into a serious war flick
with no money spent on props, special effects or the script and bad bad acting as well.
A scene where Clint and the Marines go around blowing up mail boxes with M-80s in Hackensack NJ would have been more realistic and tense than those combat scenes and tactics.:thumbdown

[Wyoming]

I thought so but man-pouches aren't authorized on our chucks...didn't realize they ever were... :banana:

:)You know anyone that is gonna call their DI out?:scared:

They were worn on their web belts.

[PaidinBlood]

FIRST AID KIT,NUMBNUTS:evilgrin:

Roger that :thumbup:

[doc h fmf]

They Have The Cuban Flag At Court House Bay Or Where Every The Recon Unit Was. I Saw It.

[BlackHills]

Heartbreak Ridge is a dumb movie but I have fond memories of it and enjoy watching it when I get the chance.

In 1986 I was a young LCpl and my BN (1/5) was on mess and maintenance duty while I wasn't assigned a job as I was waiting for my orders to RA. One day several of us without a job were called together and told to get our gear squared away for the next day and to be on the parade deck at 0800 with our personal weapons.....we were going to give a quick lesson to some actors. There were about 30 of us total I suppose.

The next day we were out there in formation. We had a couple of former DIs and they played the part when a bus arrived....lots of yelling and some pushups followed. Then the main actors in HBR (minus Clint who wasn't there that day) were brought over and introduced to us. The BN had set up a MG with blanks on the hill at the NW edge of Margarita and we were to show the actors how to do fire team rushes up the hill. Some of us gave our Deuce Gear to the actors to wear....Pvt. Profile, who has the famous line "Gunny, my gun's jammed" wore mine. We gave them some quick instructions on patrolling and then headed towards the hill in tactical formation. We did fire team rushes all the way up the hill which wore the actors out as you can imagine. After that was over we all went back to the barracks and chatted with them until chow time. They ate with us in the chow hall (on the SNCO/Officer side) and then they left. Obviously they didn't learn much since they only spent a morning with us but we all felt like we might have given them some insight in what being a Marine was like. While I talked with all of them I think my favorite was the one who played the Major, I thought he was very cool.

Several of the SNCOs and officers from 1/5 were used as extras in the scene at the SNCO Club.