View Full Version : High times in Oakland
AdirondackDog
07-21-10, 08:23 PM
Apparently Oakland is authorizing the growth of Mary Jane. To be honest, Im on the fence about this. I hate encouraging drug use, I wouldnt touch the stuff. However, this could be a good way to stimulate the economy a little bit.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/21/oakland-votes-allow-large-marijuana-farms/
Osotogary
07-21-10, 08:43 PM
And guess which community is right next to Oakland? That's right, Berkeley, University of California campus etc.. This should be fun.
AdirondackDog
07-21-10, 08:55 PM
Hell, the way I see it, it could be a good opportunity to slow down the illegal trade too. Note that I said Slow down.
Integrity57
07-21-10, 09:24 PM
I believe in it's legit use by terminal cancer patients and for other real medical problems but if it's just sold to the general public then it has the potential to be as bad as booze with the DUIs and drinking and driving related fatalities.
Grass is and will be no where near as bad as booze or tobacco. Not in terms of morbidity or mortality.
And not in terms of anti-social behavior when it comes to a comparison with booze.
Grass is being widely used. Nothing is going to stop it from being widely used. The billions we spend on trying to police it is wasted money. The millions we could raise in taxes can pay for needed services.
To say its a no-brainer is an understatement.
Old Marine
07-22-10, 08:58 AM
Package it up, put in in cigarette machines, and collect a whole lot of tax money on it.
egbutler1
07-22-10, 09:20 AM
Toke it the hell up!!! Its our right to be able too f the government trying to tell people what they can put in their body. As long as there is no crimes involved who gives a chit? If there is crime involved deal with it appropriately instead of chasing drug users for using drugs wasting billions on a failed policy. I'm voting yes on prop 19 this nov to legalize pot in CA and will gladly take a fatty hit out in the open when it passes. Just look at the numbers pot is pretty much harmless compared to some of these Rx's and booze that is out there your just hurting yourself. I enjoy pot not all the time but hell every now and than why the hell not. But no I wouldn't want to see it legal for kids never! Its an adult choice for adults. And shame on anyone who blames pot for their transition to harder drugs you pot is not a gateway drug. To those who blame pot I say its not pots fault that you turned into a crack addict its your own damn fault. But everyone has their own opinion and i'm voicing mine not trying to fight anyone. Semper Fi brothers!
One of my nieces and her hubby live in Oakland. Yes she's a Berkeley grad and works for the Peoples Republic of Berkeley (as she calls it). She says this won't make much difference since smoke is already all over the place anyway...The Northern California small time growers might take a hit, though.
egbutler1
07-22-10, 09:30 AM
I believe in it's legit use by terminal cancer patients and for other real medical problems but if it's just sold to the general public then it has the potential to be as bad as booze with the DUIs and drinking and driving related fatalities.
Nice, but please look at the numbers only 230 people were admitted to a hospital in 2006 for pot use compared to 73k or so with booze. I smoked tons in high school and a bit every now and than never ever wanted to get into a car and drive anywhere while stoned more like flip on the tv eat some chips and laz out. But people out there will no doubt bout it but we will have to deal with them as they come. I just think if someone wants to smoke some grass they should be able too but with all the same consequences that come with drinking. It would save billions free up prisons and let law enforcement focus on more important things. But I do see where your coming from and its a totally legit concern. A former surgeon general is supporting prop 19 here in california as well as the young dems/reps and 100's of law enforcement officers some ranking very high up. I just think its time for a new strategy.
"I do not come to this position cavalierly. I am a board-certified, career emergency physician who witnesses the adverse health effects of licit and illicit drugs daily. Yet the recent RAND report on the financial impact of Proposition 19 reaffirmed my belief that the legalization and regulation of marijuana would make our communities safer and more just.
According to RAND, fewer than 200 total patients were admitted to California hospitals in 2008 for “marijuana abuse or dependence.” This relatively low number did not surprise me. In my 35-plus years as an emergency physician in busy ERs in Northern California, I have never needed to admit a patient due to an adverse reaction or medical problem caused by marijuana.
Personally, I have taken care of fewer than 10 patients during my entire professional career whose chief complaint was related to marijuana. Mostly these were parents who were cajoled to smoke by their teenage kids and then experienced an anxious reaction. One hysterical woman called 911 because her dog had eaten a baggie of marijuana. Both the patient and the dog ended up fine.
Comparing the health care consequences of marijuana to the health care consequences of alcohol is startling. In 2006, there were 72,771 hospitalizations in California related to the use of alcohol. Of these, 34,292 hospitalizations were due to illnesses or chronic conditions caused by alcohol consumption. This total is roughly 200 times the number of hospital admissions associated with marijuana."
"But no I wouldn't want to see it legal for kids never! Its an adult choice for adults."
A trip to Amsterdam Netherlands can show you how to make this work. A country with a much lower grass usage rate than the US for both kids and adults I might add.
Sell it in licensed tax paying shops. Have rules on ages that can buy. Have limits on how much you can buy if you want. Hammer the shop if they do not abide by the rules. Tax them and tax them again.
And it really works. Most Dutch I know are in fact not smokers themselves. For them its just not a big deal.
3 am walking alone on a semi-deserted street I have never felt safer. Try that in Baltimore.
ameriken
07-22-10, 09:36 AM
Compared to alcohol, pot is far more benign. You never hear a story about a pothead getting stoned and then getting into a fueled frenzy and beating the sh*t out of his wife and kids.
About the most violent thing a pothead would do is walk into a wall as he went into the kitchen to find some twinkies. :p
If alcohol is legal, there is absolutely no reason to keep pot illegal.
egbutler1
07-22-10, 09:41 AM
"But no I wouldn't want to see it legal for kids never! Its an adult choice for adults."
A trip to Amsterdam Netherlands can show you how to make this work. A country with a much lower grass usage rate than the US for both kids and adults I might add.
Sell it in licensed tax paying shops. Have rules on ages that can buy. Have limits on how much you can buy if you want. Hammer the shop if they do not abide by the rules. Tax them and tax them again.
And it really works. Most Dutch I know are in fact not smokers themselves. For them its just not a big deal.
3 am walking alone on a semi-deserted street I have never felt safer. Try that in Baltimore.
totally agree! But I mean like it should not be legal for kids to buy the stuff even though they will just as I did in High School they will always find a way.
Quirky country that it is--- the Dutch have never come to grips with the growing end of things.
You can, at age 18 and above, walk into any Amsterdam Coffeeshop and buy up to five grams and smoke it without worry. No worry for the smoker no worry for the shop. Its the grower and the transporter that has to worry.
While having a shop is legal. Buying in a shop is legal. Large scale growing (anything above 5 plants) is not legal. Nor is any importation.
Its a Grey Area for sure. And by grey area I do not mean the well know much beloved Grey Area coffeeshop that is owned by a couple of Yanks.
http://www.csfroghollow.nl/
And here you can see what a menu might look like
I was in Amsterdam about a month ago. It wasn't what I expected.
It wasn't what I expected.
How so?
And if you do not mind me asking----where did you stay?
I think it was called the train hotel?? I expected to see a giant cloud of pot smoke over the city. ;)
Was there with my family and abstain from any drug use so didn't even explore those places.
We had actually gone up there to see bahn hof and amsterdam was a side trip. Saw the Ann Frank museum and went to the hard rock cafe. Did a lot of walking.
If there is anyone out there that thinks that maybe a trip to Amsterdam makes sense. Check with me first.
I may be one of the worlds experts on going to Amsterdam cheap(er) along with staying in $270 a night hotels for $90 or less.
I can help you save a small fortune.
And no I am not a travel agent nor have any product to sell.
Its just good free advice.
I think it was called the train hotel?? I expected to see a giant cloud of pot smoke over the city. ;)
Was there with my family and abstain from any drug use so didn't even explore those places.
We had actually gone up there to see bahn hof and amsterdam was a side trip. Saw the Ann Frank museum and went to the hard rock cafe. Did a lot of walking.
The A-Train?
Walking is what I do almost all the time I am over there. The best walking city I have ever seen anywhere.
But a good observation about the lack of visuals or smells as far as MJ. You almost never see it on the streets.
A walk through Vondalpark on a sunny day you might see some. But even then its fairly rare.
Geeze I'm operating on one brain cell again. It was kuken haus(sp) We went up there to see the tulip gardens. I think it was the train hotel? It had a train theme and was across the road from the train station. The prices were reasonable and everyone spoke english. Driving and more so finding parking was outrageous.
"The prices were reasonable and everyone spoke english. Driving and more so finding parking was outrageous."
You have discovered two basis truths about Amsterdam.
Everyone but the odd tourist speaks great English.
The only problem I ever had was a meet and greet at a coffeeshop with a fellow Yank and a young couple from Scotland.
I sat there and nodded and tried to look engaged but I had not a clue what those Scots were saying. What those people have done to the English language is a crime.
You never want to park in Amsterdam. Never ever.
What we normally recommend is some public parking lots on the outskirts of town. Very reasonable prices. Really dirt cheap compared to parking in the Centre.
And a tram line near by so you can park and then catch a tram into town where you will be staying.
http://www.atrainhotel.com/index.php
Yep right across the street from the beautiful Central Station.
If you ever decide to go back check with me first.
We found an underground parking garage with security about 2 blocks from the hotel. It cost 80 EU a day to park there. How bout them WWII looking bicycles parked everywhere LOL. A big that looks like at any minute is gonna rust into the ground with a 10 lb chain and a padlock on it. When we went there the city clean up crew was on strike so there were piles of trash everywhere.
We found an underground parking garage with security about 2 blocks from the hotel. It cost 80 EU a day to park there. How bout them WWII looking bicycles parked everywhere LOL. A big that looks like at any minute is gonna rust into the ground with a 10 lb chain and a padlock on it. When we went there the city clean up crew was on strike so there were piles of trash everywhere.
Oh man did I hear about the trash. I am in fact an official Amsterdam expert for a major travel related forum. And did the visitors and locals complain about the trash.
Those bikes you saw were for the most part 2nd bikes. Normally the Dutch or at least many Dutch will have a nice bike at home for their non-work related rides. And a crap bike they will ride to the train station etc.
Bike stealing (along with pickpockets) being the two biggest street crimes you might come across.
Nothing fills me with awe more than to see an Amsterdam mom on the way home from shopping with bags of groceries and two kids on that bike. Sometimes in the dead of winter during a cold windy rainy evening.
I have no idea how they do it.
echo3oscar1833
07-22-10, 10:54 AM
If pot was legal I wouldn't smoke it. Not saying I never experimented I have, but those days are passed. Honesly I could see it becoming legal here in Illinois, it has been talked about. Where getting to be more and more of a liberal state:cry:. However if others wanna smoke that thrash more power to them I suppose. If they make it legal here in Illinois, they better make some tax cuts on other things, and tax the hell out of the doobie!!:D
Integrity57
07-22-10, 12:18 PM
Compared to alcohol, pot is far more benign. You never hear a story about a pothead getting stoned and then getting into a fueled frenzy and beating the sh*t out of his wife and kids.
About the most violent thing a pothead would do is walk into a wall as he went into the kitchen to find some twinkies. :p
If alcohol is legal, there is absolutely no reason to keep pot illegal.
I agree with you whole-heartedly and like most folks I had my experiences with it when I was younger and I know it's not as bad as manufactured drugs like coke, heroine, and meth and don't doubt that the taxes made from it may help our economy in the long run.
@ EGButler: My concern comes from the idea that if it is packaged and sold like cigarettes that more people will smoke it while they're driving just like regular cigarettes and we both know that pot slows reaction time and awareness and the idea of some guy tripping balls while driving in rush hour traffic isn't exactly something I'm keen on. But I'm not trying to say weed is the devil because it's not and I hope that if it is legalized that Americans treat it and think of it just like Dutch do, of course it may take some time for that to happen as I'm sure alot of folks would be celebrating it's legalization for a while ;) hahaha.
Old Marine
07-22-10, 12:32 PM
Hey Lynn2: If Amsterdam is so great, you should pack your sea bag and move there. Baltimore may suck, but at least it is in the U.S.
Hey Lynn2: If Amsterdam is so great, you should pack your sea bag and move there. Baltimore may suck, but at least it is in the U.S.
Its called a vacation. And Amsterdam is great.
Kind of a nasty twink I see.
"I hope that if it is legalized that Americans treat it and think of it just like Dutch do, of course it may take some time for that to happen as I'm sure alot of folks would be celebrating it's legalization for a while ;) hahaha."
On this time would tell. Although you will never see grass sold in vending machines or at 7-11.
The model will be like the Dutch or like the medical MJ stores in in California.
The first few years I would expect a small upsurge in use. A heck of a lot of folks are smoking already. But after that, in time, we may see a leveling off, and maybe even a decline.
The Dutch have had an open above ground system for decades now. Its just not seen as a big deal. And for many Dutch a coffeeshop is somewhere Brits and Yanks go while on Holiday in the NL.
I think it was called the train hotel?? I expected to see a giant cloud of pot smoke over the city. ;)
Was there with my family and abstain from any drug use so didn't even explore those places.
We had actually gone up there to see bahn hof and amsterdam was a side trip. Saw the Ann Frank museum and went to the hard rock cafe. Did a lot of walking.
http://www.schlijper.nl/index2.html
Bulkyker I tried to send this as a PM but you inbox is full. You may remember seeing some of this last month.
If you go back a few days you will see the WC as locals saw it.
Enjoy
Wife just squared me away on dates. We were there in May while all the flowers were still in bloom. Thanks for the link
On another note about Europe, I understand that Portugal has removed all penalties for small amounts of ALL drugs. Apparently no upsurge in stoned out Portugese stumbling around...
And I just looked it up and was surprised to find that this happened nine years ago. Apparently it has been a success.
And I just looked it up and was surprised to find that this happened nine years ago. Apparently it has been a success.
More like a ho hum event. Just not that big a deal when a more intelligent approach is taken.
Spain also. They may surpass the NL in being grass friendly some day. A well know coffeeshop(s) owner from the NL has been working on opening a grass friendly resort in Spain for sometime.
In Prague the Mrs and I passed a guy standing outside one of the big tourist attractions puffing on a doobie. Just was not seen as a big deal.
In SanFrancisco where we had gone on her business trip it turned out to be National Pot day or something close.
There I was in down town SFO, surrounded by 1000's, while sucking on a vapo, while maybe 20 bored city police stood around and talked to each other. They could have cared less.
As old Mr Zimmerman once said----the times they are a changing ----or maybe it was something about a rolling stone(er)