View Full Version : Carrying a Sidearm
CastNoShadow
07-21-10, 03:15 PM
Does anyone have the facts on which MOSs get to carry sidearms, and which caliber the USMC is issuing to those that are authorized to carry them?
I've done a little research online, but no one seems to have a consistant answer based on facts rather than hearsay.
Thanks in advance for your time.
Lt Miller
07-21-10, 03:15 PM
Why
CastNoShadow
07-21-10, 03:22 PM
Why
To answer your question Sir, I am soon to be purchasing a handgun before I leave for bootcamp, and ideally I would like to buy one that could be used both for home protection (for my wife while I am gone) and potentially one that I could also carry into combat as a backup.
armorers are authorized i know that and its the M9 berretta 9mm that we use same as MW2 lol
ohh and you CAN NOT carry personal weapons into combat and pay no attention to that jack wagon hes a troll trying to start ****
Lt Miller
07-21-10, 03:27 PM
To answer your question Sir, I am soon to be purchasing a handgun before I leave for bootcamp, and ideally I would like to buy one that could be used both for home protection (for my wife while I am gone) and potentially one that I could also carry into combat as a backup.
You cant carry your own personal weapon into combat. Thats just retarded. If you need a sidearm, the Marine Corps will issue an M9 to you. You dont want an M9, they suck a*s.
Or you could be Force Recon, MARSOC or something of that nature. Then you'll get to carry a badass 1911, and nobody will give a sh*t.
Lt Miller
07-21-10, 03:28 PM
ohh and you CAN NOT carry personal weapons into combat and pay no attention to that jack wagon hes a troll trying to start ****
Go back to playing MW2.
thats later for now im working and not fvcking off being a jacka$$ here
Lt Miller
07-21-10, 03:34 PM
thats later for now im working and not fvcking off being a jacka$$ here
Working is humping 20 miles in 130 degree weather to **** up some taliban.
Not predicting the weather.
ArtyOps
07-21-10, 03:56 PM
Buy whatever you want for home protection. Since you are married you will either move into base housing or out in town. If you choose base housing make sure you register your weapon with PMO (Military Police). Also, regardless of whether you live in base housing or not make sure you research the gun laws of the state you are moving to, especially when you move your family. Make sure you transport it legally and you register it when you arrive. These rules/laws apply to whatever MOS you are.
The Lt is right in that it is illegal for you to carry a personal firearm to combat. It may be easy for you to get it there but leaving with it will be nearly impossible. Plus I think it would be better served to leave it home with your wife for her protection. If you think you need a backup then make sure when you get to your unit you volunteer to be on a machine gun team. That way you'll always have something to shoot.
If you take care of your issued weapon it will work for you when you need it. Most of the M16's in service now are relatively new. They have the new rail system which you mount other issued item like the acog/rco (advanced combat optical gunsight/rifle combat optics), infrared laser site, surefire, and other things.
That being said, my last deployment to Iraq, the Officers and Staff NCO's (and I) were issued the M4 and also carried an M9. I can't confirm whether or not the Marine Corps is completely losing the M9 or not as I've been out for a bit.
as far as i know were keeping the m9
brian0351
07-22-10, 03:29 AM
Make sure you get a silencer and some high-speed NVGs. You never know when your Platoon Commander will send you on a solo mission to kill the Taliban commander before you assault your objective!
SlingerDun
07-22-10, 04:38 AM
Dammmn Lt. Miller, you carry on like a freakin mud private, mang:marine:
ArtyOps
07-22-10, 05:10 AM
Working is humping 20 miles in 130 degree weather to **** up some taliban.
Not predicting the weather.
No, that’s taking a walk. Working is everything the enlisted Marines have to do to get ready for the walk.
Semper Fi:flag:
Make sure you get a silencer and some high-speed NVGs. You never know when your Platoon Commander will send you on a solo mission to kill the Taliban commander before you assault your objective!
There was many a day I would have paid $100 (big money back then) to have a silencer. We could have used that often and to great result.
In fact some of our guys did carry non issued weapons.
Nunchucks and a garrote were both carried at times. Though I never myself ever saw or heard of them being used.
Brass nuckles? Can't remember if that is a real memory of someone carrying them or a fake one.
Beltayn
07-22-10, 06:43 PM
You realize that unlike in hollywood, "silencers" do not actually "silence"? They reduce the noise level of a gun shot from 135 decibels (the sound of a 747 take off) to a mere 110 decibels (slightly less noisy than a 747 take off).
They are mostly useful as a way to suppress the muzzle flash to prevent a target from being able to locate the specific position of the shooter.
ggyoung
07-23-10, 12:19 PM
You can silence the weapon but you can not silence the bullet if it is going faster than the speed of sound.
sparkie
07-23-10, 12:25 PM
As a worthless side note,,,my MOS was 2841, and my issue was a 1911a1. Anchient history, I know.
terran1996
07-23-10, 12:28 PM
You realize that unlike in hollywood, "silencers" do not actually "silence"? They reduce the noise level of a gun shot from 135 decibels (the sound of a 747 take off) to a mere 110 decibels (slightly less noisy than a 747 take off).
They are mostly useful as a way to suppress the muzzle flash to prevent a target from being able to locate the specific position of the shooter.
They also dramatically reduce the effective range of the weapon.
Zulu 36
07-23-10, 01:12 PM
You can silence the weapon but you can not silence the bullet if it is going faster than the speed of sound.
This is true, downrange. However, depending on the firearm, you can use sub-sonic ammunition.
I've shot the MP-5SD (permanent suppressor) and the Navy MP-5N (screw-on suppressor). With sub-sonic ammunition, the SD sounds just like the movies except the noise of the action is a little more prominent. The MP-5N was also pretty damned quiet. The SEALS wanted an MP-5 they could use effectively at slightly longer ranges as well, so that led to the removable suppressor.
Yes, that stuff needs to be used up close and personal. The MP-5SD was designed to be a hostage rescue firearm where silence is important if hostages are in separate areas of a structure. The SD was easily quiet enough to shoot comfortably without hearing protection.
Marine Force Recon used to have Colt Woodsman .22 semi-autos with permanent suppressors. I shot one once and it was very quiet. More noise from the action than anything else.
I never argue weapons with Marines. Considering the little time I spent on a range.
I do know that "noise" was something that could cause a whole team to be lost.
Anything that reduced that noise and still allowed us to do what needed to be done would have been a big help.
"Leave the rifles and take the K-Bars and don't make any friggin noise if you have to use them" was in fact a command I heard in real time.
KBars ? :-(
It has been a while and things change but the force platoon I worked with all carried MP-5's and 1911 side arm.
hillbillyjar
07-24-10, 04:40 AM
My personal opinion, there will never be a better side arm than the 1911 colt in .45 Colt Auto. I'm not a fan of the 9mms. Put one where it should go rather than 17 in the general area.
If you want a home protection weapon, don't think side arm. The Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge is light, quick, and recoil won't make your wife afraid to shoot it. Load it with turkey shot (a mix of #4 and #6 lead shot) and it will pretty much discourage anyone in it's line of fire, but won't blast through to the next room to harm the children.
Two cents contributed.
Echo_Four_Bravo
07-24-10, 01:55 PM
I can't believe that it hasn't been mentioned that pistols are next to useless in combat. They are there for people that have jobs that make it difficult or impossible to deal with a rifle and for some that are highly likely to need a backup firearm. There maybe a situation where a pistol would be a better answer than a rifle or carbine, but I've yet to encounter it. The M-16 will get you through anything you see.
As for home defense, there are tons of great choices. Go to the gun store and check some out. Even though I don't currently own one, you really can't beat a Glock or of Smith and Wesson M&P.
"I can't believe that it hasn't been mentioned that pistols are next to useless in combat"
Carried one for 13 straight months in combat as a back up weapon and never fired mine. But we did use it a lot.
Tunnels, small caves, swimming out to and boarding small boats are just some of the times.
Mine was mostly for if I needed to leave my main weapon behind and go after a WIA.
All in all it was nice to have. And I never went out without it.
But it added more weight than I wished to have. And at my slight size weight was a constant issue for me.
On the plus side I looked really cool with that shoulder holster I picked up on the black market. Style and neat looks are important now and then I guess.
CastNoShadow
07-24-10, 03:19 PM
Thanks to all that responded.
We ended up going with a GLOCK 9mm compact. I would have liked to go with something with a little more stopping power, but I also needed to make sure my wife could easily handle the caliber.
Thanks again, and I appreciate the info.
Wyoming
07-24-10, 03:23 PM
Yep, them little 9mm's will go through walls and fatty flesh REAL slick.
Why don't you notch out a deep cut star pattern on the tips?
Just saying ...
CastNoShadow
07-24-10, 03:37 PM
I got some Federal hollowpoints to hopefully negate some of those issues with the 9mm.
ggyoung
07-25-10, 07:54 PM
Ever hear of the Whisper Rounds and rifles? A 50 cal. shortened to fire sub sonic.
I would recommend against self-modifying firearms or ammo...especially if your wife is going to be using it.
A 9mm would stop the **** out of me...just sayin. I wanted to get a .40 SiG for my house but decided weapon and ammo cost was too much so I went with the 9mm vers. No regrets.
Don't worry about mixing caliber with issued weapons. You won't be able to take ammo from training exercises home...at least you aren't supposed to. Unless you are attached to some cool-guy unit/billet you will be rocking an M9, (9mm)...some guys get .45 automatics, but thats like attachment to JSOC and other stuff. Anyway enjoy your Glock...maybe go take a handling/firing course or CCW with your wife?
hillbillyjar
07-25-10, 10:07 PM
Ever hear of the Whisper Rounds and rifles? A 50 cal. shortened to fire sub sonic.
Have not had opportunity to fire one myself, but from what I read, they are something close to launching a cow with a catapult, just slightly less accurate.
Sgt Leprechaun
07-26-10, 12:16 AM
I still prefer, after all these years, my M1911A1.
Just my opine.
LoveOfCountry
07-26-10, 01:26 AM
A sidearm for most MOS' is just a comfort piece that you carry to the head so you don't have to lug the rifle everywhere... all the time.
Suppressors are nice. Just threaded my Glock barrel and waiting for my stamp :)
The MP-5SD is nice too. Allows you to throw a lot of led down range with little to no recoil.
The M9 sucks.
As for taking personal weapons into combat... I'm pretty sure that's only firearms... not necessarily weapons in general, right?
I'd want to at least take my own knife. The KA-Bar is actually poorly made. The new Ontario is good to go though.
Yeah, the M9 does suck...I'm actually pretty decent with it but its heavy as hell and has a mile long trigger pull.
Its totally awesome to lock your M4 up, and slip your 9 in a paddle holster for a nice day of hanging out on base.
I'm pretty sure NSW stopped using MP-5's around 2003-2004, but I could be wrong.
Zulu 36
07-26-10, 09:47 AM
A sidearm for most MOS' is just a comfort piece that you carry to the head so you don't have to lug the rifle everywhere... all the time.
Suppressors are nice. Just threaded my Glock barrel and waiting for my stamp :)
The MP-5SD is nice too. Allows you to throw a lot of led down range with little to no recoil.
The M9 sucks.
As for taking personal weapons into combat... I'm pretty sure that's only firearms... not necessarily weapons in general, right?
I'd want to at least take my own knife. The KA-Bar is actually poorly made. The new Ontario is good to go though.
When I was in Vietnam, I went with what I owned (nothing) and got a K-Bar and a GI pocket knife after I got there, both of which I brought home. I used and abused that K-Bar for years until I lost it in the field. :cry:
Judging by some of the previous posts by Iraq and Afghan vets here, they were allowed to bring their own knives, but no personal firearms.
Assaultdog0351
07-26-10, 08:45 PM
If you ever get issued an M9 do yourself the favor of purchasing your own mags and a holster, and don't be a cheap ass when you do(especially the mags)
RAPARMER
07-27-10, 06:39 AM
I have heard stories of Marines also taking tomahawks as well into combat in Iraq and Afghan. I know for a fact that they did in earlier wars. Can anyone validate these stories?
ArtyOps
07-27-10, 07:28 AM
If you ever get issued an M9 do yourself the favor of purchasing your own mags and a holster, and don't be a cheap ass when you do(especially the mags)
Just curious, why would you do that? I've never has trouble with issued M9 mags not functioning properly. Also, you'll have a hard time finding and legally purchasing the high capacity mags especially in California.
I also have never had a problem with M9's mags that I recall...but I always function check them and trade 'em in for new ones. My unit issues us drop holsters and I purchased a paddle holster...then ended up just sliding my M9 into the little kangaroo pouch on my MTV in the front.
Assaultdog0351
07-27-10, 09:46 AM
I think this may be the first time I have EVER heard of people NOT having problems with their mags... Do you have sand where you work? This is not ony an issue with our mags but ALOT of the brits we worked with in Afghanistan had the same issue. We all get issued checkmate mags and they fail repeatedly unless you clean and stretch them everyday, so far this has been across the board for EVERYONE I have talked to about this. Issued drop holsters? The only thing we can get from our armory is the green monstrosity that does not fit anywhere if you actually arrange your gear for speed and accessibility, other than that we buy our own.
Assaultdog0351
07-27-10, 09:47 AM
If I remember correctly there may have even been a lawsuit or investigation because of the poor quality of mags issued for the M9.
Yeah a Blackhawk coyote lefty drop holster (as I'm a lefty) If I remember correctly. I was under the impression it was a perishable issue (like our IPOD touches), but the 4 made me turn it back in. I am still convinced someone in the shop just wanted it and told me I had to turn it in.
I will look into the mag thing. I know I had after market mags for my M4 (the metal ones for HK416 that you have to file the end so it seats right), but I thought our M9 mags were stock...could be wrong. Those little f'ers are expensive to buy...
Assaultdog0351
07-27-10, 12:56 PM
The H&Ks are nice and solid, the weight was the onl thing that pushed me away, sold them to a buddy and threw some self leveling followers into the issued aluminum mags.
FistFu68
07-27-10, 01:23 PM
:evilgrin: Hushpuppy 22Lr...1968...Swift Silent Deadly...:thumbup: :iwo:
Actually, its been my understanding (perhaps incorrectly) that the M-16 mags we are issued are technically throw aways and aren't supposed to be used more than once. One of those, someone told me who some told, that somebody else told kind of deals so not sure how accurate that is.
Assaultdog0351
07-27-10, 03:31 PM
I've also heard the same thing, but not sure where it came from.
ggyoung
07-27-10, 06:32 PM
The Marine Corps buying throw away rifle mags? I just can't see that.
ArtyOps
07-27-10, 06:52 PM
I think this may be the first time I have EVER heard of people NOT having problems with their mags... Do you have sand where you work? This is not ony an issue with our mags but ALOT of the brits we worked with in Afghanistan had the same issue. We all get issued checkmate mags and they fail repeatedly unless you clean and stretch them everyday, so far this has been across the board for EVERYONE I have talked to about this. Issued drop holsters? The only thing we can get from our armory is the green monstrosity that does not fit anywhere if you actually arrange your gear for speed and accessibility, other than that we buy our own.
Oh, ok. I always unloaded and reloaded my mags and cleaned them, M16 and M9. My last trip I bought a drop holster, got tired of that and went to supply for a shoulder holster. Only used the drop holster for missions outside the wire.
Assaultdog0351
07-27-10, 10:27 PM
It was pain on my last deployment to clean anything... We slept on the unimproved dirt road outside the wire for the first little bit then in the LZ where daily HST drops came in then in the temperpedic sand on the edge of the green zone... good times... I learned quick from my first deployment to take the rounds out of the mag your cleaning and put it right into a spare before you start cleaning, and only one at a time in case of QRF
Backhaus 1103
10-05-10, 11:39 AM
I know it's old, but I'm bored. I got issued a 9mm for some reason, they said it's beacuse I had a mk 12, which is retarded if you ask me. Anyway, I gave my 9mm to our 240 gunner seeing he had a big ass gun on his shoulders and no way to defend himself if a talib popped a corner with an ak...happened more than once. In my opinon, 31s with the 240 should get one, but it's the Marine Corps and we don't use common sence here. I guess SNCOs and officer need one so they don't have to carry their heavy M4 to the chow hall when on a main base. Whatever.
My M9 got used quite a lot. It actually earned a purple heart. A round hit the pistol grip and shattered it.
I don't like sh!t hanging all over my body so when I carried it I put it in my front pouch on my mtv and plate carrier. It was a lot better than a leg thing.
Zulu 36
10-05-10, 12:02 PM
I know it's old, but I'm bored. I got issued a 9mm for some reason, they said it's beacuse I had a mk 12, which is retarded if you ask me. Anyway, I gave my 9mm to our 240 gunner seeing he had a big ass gun on his shoulders and no way to defend himself if a talib popped a corner with an ak...happened more than once. In my opinon, 31s with the 240 should get one, but it's the Marine Corps and we don't use common sence here. I guess SNCOs and officer need one so they don't have to carry their heavy M4 to the chow hall when on a main base. Whatever.
My M9 got used quite a lot. It actually earned a purple heart. A round hit the pistol grip and shattered it.
I don't like sh!t hanging all over my body so when I carried it I put it in my front pouch on my mtv and plate carrier. It was a lot better than a leg thing.
In my day, it was standard for machine gunners to be issued a .45 for exactly the reason you state. I don't know why issuing a handgun to machine gunners changed. Seems stupid. So was going to a 9mm from a .45, but I digress.
I know it's old, but I'm bored. I got issued a 9mm for some reason, they said it's beacuse I had a mk 12, which is retarded if you ask me. Anyway, I gave my 9mm to our 240 gunner seeing he had a big ass gun on his shoulders and no way to defend himself if a talib popped a corner with an ak...happened more than once. In my opinon, 31s with the 240 should get one, but it's the Marine Corps and we don't use common sence here. I guess SNCOs and officer need one so they don't have to carry their heavy M4 to the chow hall when on a main base. Whatever.
My M9 got used quite a lot. It actually earned a purple heart. A round hit the pistol grip and shattered it.
I don't like sh!t hanging all over my body so when I carried it I put it in my front pouch on my mtv and plate carrier. It was a lot better than a leg thing.
The kangaroo pouch is definitely the way to go, especially when in a vic.
Backhaus 1103
10-05-10, 04:08 PM
Yea and it's free haha. It's so much better than the leg or belt crap. Too bad I bet if I tried to do it in CONUS I'll get b!tched at by everyone and their mother.
Assaultdog0351
10-09-10, 06:48 PM
There's quite a few options for the pistols these days. Blackhawk and g-code both make the multi platform system where you can have a few different setups and you just unlock and twist the holster then plop it on your other setup. On my last deployment I ended up punching holes into my flack with a mine probe then screwing the a serpa holster right into it. worked great. As far as dismounted gunners not getting the pistols, it's a failure on the leadership if they allowed that to happen. As mentioned, Talib can just pop right out and that 240 ain't going nowhere fast.
NightHawk94
10-10-10, 05:44 PM
Buy whatever you want for home protection. Since you are married you will either move into base housing or out in town. If you choose base housing make sure you register your weapon with PMO (Military Police). Also, regardless of whether you live in base housing or not make sure you research the gun laws of the state you are moving to, especially when you move your family. Make sure you transport it legally and you register it when you arrive. These rules/laws apply to whatever MOS you are.
The Lt is right in that it is illegal for you to carry a personal firearm to combat. It may be easy for you to get it there but leaving with it will be nearly impossible. Plus I think it would be better served to leave it home with your wife for her protection. If you think you need a backup then make sure when you get to your unit you volunteer to be on a machine gun team. That way you'll always have something to shoot.
If you take care of your issued weapon it will work for you when you need it. Most of the M16's in service now are relatively new. They have the new rail system which you mount other issued item like the acog/rco (advanced combat optical gunsight/rifle combat optics), infrared laser site, surefire, and other things.
That being said, my last deployment to Iraq, the Officers and Staff NCO's (and I) were issued the M4 and also carried an M9. I can't confirm whether or not the Marine Corps is completely losing the M9 or not as I've been out for a bit.
I agree buy what you want and what your wife is comfortable shooting, it won't do her any good if she can't fire it accurately. Unfortunately the Military still is under contract for Regular Soildiers to be issued the M9 (Berreta 9mm), Most specialty groups are issued the M1911 which is what we were using in 13th MEU SOC BLT 1/1