How do you graduate top of the class at boot?

[32JJW0311]

I Enlisted as an E-2 Pfc and leave for boot camp in 31 weeks almost 30.
As you can see in my signature my goals and where I am at as of 20100701.
I leave 20110124. I may have an opportunity to leave earlier but I don't think I'm fully ready. I would rather be to the top of my game and know instead of think that I can graduate top of the class to be promoted to E-3 LcCpl.
I have been running 5+ miles a day, weight lift Mon, Wed, and Fri. Tuesday I swim and run and steam room, and Thursday I PT at 17:30 with all our poolees which is about 10 of us. I also have been trying with my pull-ups strapping 25lbs on my waist and doing sets that way? I am 185lbs 5'9" I'm good on my weight but some people say I have to much muscle? My goal is recon, but I also have a very low ASVAB score.
By the way I do know what Recon consists of and I know just about every single infantry rifleman wants to do it.
Any suggestions?

[Capital M]

Don't be a tool.

[32JJW0311]

What do you mean Pfc Colin?

[32JJW0311]

Sir I wasn't bragging if that's what you thought. I'm asking how to improve.

[echo3oscar1833]

Best way to graduate at to become Plt Honorman, or Company Honorman is to be motivated, work hard, score top PFT, Expert Rifle, and in general soak up as much knowledge as possible, and apply the knowledge. On top of that you have to show your Drill Instructors that you want it. If you can do those things you have a shot, but remember in the end its the Drill Instructors and Officers that make the final decision. Best of luck

[terran1996]

Put yourself last and your fellow recruits first. Do it because you want to be a leader not because you want rank.
If you got the chops your Drill Instructors will notice.

[Capital M]

Sgt leprechaun, wan't making fun of him, I was being dead serious when isaid don't be a tool. You may have an amazing pft and shoot expert at the rifle range, but it isn't going to do you much good if you are obnoxious or your attitude is poor

[echo3oscar1833]

Sgt leprechaun, wan't making fun of him, I was being dead serious when isaid don't be a tool. You may have an amazing pft and shoot expert at the rifle range, but it isn't going to do you much good if you are obnoxious or your attitude is poor

Yes but leadership in the Marine Corps starts with the lowest ranks which includes PFC'S. It is more beneficial as a leader to give Poolee's first hand knowledge, and explain why you do something. By just saying don't be a tool, shows poor leadership. Because you did not explain why or how not to be a tool. Just saying something like that, and walking away show's no leadership characteristics of any kind. I see you just became a Marine this year. I'm sure your knowledge of boot camp, and current regulations are more up to Par than mine and other Marines since its been a few years since we where there. Lessoned learned Devil Dog, Semper Fi

[supermanlives22]

i graduated in 2006 im not sure how they do it now but i will give my advice. what the marines said above is correct. knowledge is key at least when i went through know marine knowledge by heart because that is what they tested on the most on the board. practice shooting also see how fast you run the 3 mile try to strive to get a 18 min and get 20 pull ups and max situps also drill if you can find someone to teach you thats great cpl's and sgt's should know due to cpl and sgt course or a rotc member. but here is were mine was different and i hope someone can help with this the plt after me had three marine's promoted to lcpl. i got to spend an extra week home befor i went to mct so thats why i was with them. they told me they were trying something new i dont know if it stuck because it sounded like they promoted one guy out of each plt one higher. so its like the honor rect out of each plt. but i hope the first part of this helps. good luck. and if you have a low asvab i suggest practice and retake it again that should be fine as long as you meet the score for the field you have now and if you get a higher score then it will help to go recon.

[supermanlives22]

and one more thing i came into bootcamp in great shape sounds like you will too. the physical part was not very chalenging for me but mentaly it was hell

[Wyoming]

Make sure your boots fit and you wear clean socks and undies.


... an E-3 outta boot is the bootest of all boots. You don't get to play with the big boys and the 1's and 2's don't like your ******* attitude. The only bennie is the pay.

[il duce]

Its not hard - just stay motivated and make sure you're the Plt guide by the end of 2nd phase

[32JJW0311]

Thanks for the advice Marines! I was talking to my recruiter today about it and he said just be diciplined and a hard bad ass. He said when they ask for you name yell as loud as you can it shows...

[marharri]

volunteer for everything. correct other recruits as soon as they allow you to. learn your general orders. show speed, volume and intensity. never back away from anything. never grow tired and always know that those around you are always more tired/frustrated/scared/nervous than you and use that energy. have no limits and more importantly, inspire other recruits when they think they have limits. when (not if) you are on the quarterdeck, try your best to kill yourself more than the di's try. that and get someone to show you how to carry a guidon. (the last being the least important)

[32JJW0311]

volunteer for everything. correct other recruits as soon as they allow you to. learn your general orders. show speed, volume and intensity. never back away from anything. never grow tired and always know that those around you are always more tired/frustrated/scared/nervous than you and use that energy. have no limits and more importantly, inspire other recruits when they think they have limits. when (not if) you are on the quarterdeck, try your best to kill yourself more than the di's try. that and get someone to show you how to carry a guidon. (the last being the least important)



I actually took notes for your post thank you very much. I have memorized the 11 general orders so far. But I'm not and won't be a Marine yet how do I correct other recruits? Wont that make them hate me? Then there will always be that stupid f'er that says I'm going to shoot that guy in the back over seas just cuz I hate him. I've heard so many military personnel say stuff like that. I just wouldn't want them to hate me but if that's my job to correct them and be on their ass I sure will do it!
Thank you.

[SGT7477]

Make sure your boots fit and you wear clean socks and undies.


... an E-3 outta boot is the bootest of all boots. You don't get to play with the big boys and the 1's and 2's don't like your ******* attitude. The only bennie is the pay.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[il duce]

FYI its much easier to pick up E-3 in SOI...

[ameriken]

Knowing your shiit, peforming and scoring well is certainly important, but leadership is just as important. <br />
<br />
If you want to be regarded as a leader by both your fellow recruits and your Drill...

[32JJW0311]

Knowing your shiit, peforming and scoring well is certainly important, but leadership is just as important.

If you want to be regarded as a leader by both your fellow recruits and your Drill Instructors, then pay attention to two posts in this thread: Capital M, and terran1996.

First, I didnt see Capital M's deleted post, but what he said later about being 'a tool' and being obnoxious made a lot of sense. Maybe the reality is that you weren't bragging, but his perception (as well as my own) is that you were. And that perception is greater than the reality. Just imagine if he was one of your fellow recruits, and that the other recruits in your platoon felt the same way. If you go about talking about your muscles and scores and how far you ran and how many pullups you did, and 'I wanna be a recon ranger' and graduate as a Lance Corporal, you may be seen as a blowhard. If that happens, forget about getting respect as a leader.

Further, I don't know if 'being on their ass' is the right attitude for a good leader. You seem so determined to get E3 and be #1 that the rest of the platoon will see right through you, and may view all your efforts as being self-serving, just so you can beat them all out and pick up that extra rank.

Now pay attention to what terran1996: "Put yourself last and your fellow recruits first. Do it because you want to be a leader not because you want rank."

What great advice. If you want to be respected as a leader, then help your fellow recruits like you sincerely want each of them to be better than you. Help them like you want them to pick up that extra rank and you want them to beat you to the top. A leader cares for his men and will not use them for his own personal gain. If you are helping them to be the best without regard for whether or not you make E-3 or #1, and you're not out there talking about you and everything you've done and what you want to do, then you just may garner the respect as a leader, both by your fellow recruits as well as your Drill Instructors.



Thank you and what you say makes sense. I can understand how I came off as that way. I was just trying to show what I've been doing or do to see if there is something else that I should be doing or what not.
Just for your information as well Sergeant, I wouldn't tell people that stuff normally unless they asked. It makes sense and I can see how I may be trying to get E-3 for myself and that's pretty selfish. But to be a leader takes dicipline and effort and you have to earn everyones trust. So thank you again.

[32JJW0311]

FYI its much easier to pick up E-3 in SOI...


Please explain?

[hillbillyjar]

Put yourself last and your fellow recruits first. Do it because you want to be a leader not because you want rank.
If you got the chops your Drill Instructors will notice.
Bingo!

Learn to accept the fact that the Corps is just that: it is a CORPS.

If a man falls back, you help him catch up.

The methods have changed since I was in, but the Corps never changes.

Put yourself before your team and you will loose. Put yourself behind, lifting your company and you will win.

Semper Fi

[Quinbo]

Be 6 feet tall
Be 20 years old
Be physically fit and athletic
Know how to swim
Absorb and reguritate information provided to you
Be mentally mature and intelligent
Demonstrate leadership
Don't try to make yourself look better by making other recruits looks bad

In the end no one really cares if you were the guide in boot camp. Something to brag about to your grand kids but that's about it.

I think I posted some time before about hitting the fleet as a lance. No mercy.

[32JJW0311]

Be 6 feet tall
Be 20 years old
Be physically fit and athletic
Know how to swim
Absorb and reguritate information provided to you
Be mentally mature and intelligent
Demonstrate leadership
Don't try to make yourself look better by making other recruits looks bad

In the end no one really cares if you were the guide in boot camp. Something to brag about to your grand kids but that's about it.

I think I posted some time before about hitting the fleet as a lance. No mercy.


I am 20 years old and have all of those qualities. But what do you mean by that?

[Beltayn]

A good percentage of Marines look down on boots who hit the fleet with E-3. It's not normal, and generally looked upon as brown-nosed favoritism. Certainly it's very hard to justify to fellow Lance Corporals that you actually deserve the rank when you hit the fleet and are the FNG and have no clue about absolutely anything.

The Marine Corps doesn't give away rank, unlike the other branches. Because of that, each rank has certain expectations attached to it. There is almost no way that as a boot (without some form of prior service) you are going to have the competence and knowledge that a LCPL is supposed to have in order to have earned that far, coming straight out of the pipeline. You might be reliable, you might have all the right qualities, and you might have been hot in training, but no matter how good you are you will catch hell.
To many you as a boot Lance will simply represent some poor Private who didn't have contract PFC like you did but deserved to get PFC who you buddy-frolicked out of his promotion by fast tracking yourself ahead of where you actually rate to be.

[RAPARMER]

If you are given the honor of being a squad leader or guide then YES that will be your job.Keeping the platoon in check and correcting them if needed will be your responsibility if the Drill Instuctors are not around.The Drill Instuctors will get in your A$$ if you don't and may give the job to someone else if they don't think your able to do the job.If you loose the position of guide you may not get it back so stay on top of you game.

[32JJW0311]

A good percentage of Marines look down on boots who hit the fleet with E-3. It's not normal, and generally looked upon as brown-nosed favoritism. Certainly it's very hard to justify to fellow Lance Corporals that you actually deserve the rank when you hit the fleet and are the FNG and have no clue about absolutely anything.

The Marine Corps doesn't give away rank, unlike the other branches. Because of that, each rank has certain expectations attached to it. There is almost no way that as a boot (without some form of prior service) you are going to have the competence and knowledge that a LCPL is supposed to have in order to have earned that far, coming straight out of the pipeline. You might be reliable, you might have all the right qualities, and you might have been hot in training, but no matter how good you are you will catch hell.
To many you as a boot Lance will simply represent some poor Private who didn't have contract PFC like you did but deserved to get PFC who you buddy-frolicked out of his promotion by fast tracking yourself ahead of where you actually rate to be.



I can deff. see what you mean by being a LcCpl out of Boot. Because when someone is an officer and just coming out of NROTC and bossing around someone who actually has been in the Military for awhile and has earned their rank, then the Master Sgt. or Ssgt or what rank he is drilling around isn't going to really respect him. So thank you.


******


LEPRECHAUN NOTE: This is the equivilant of that same 2nd Lt with no experience stating "It's been MY experience...."

In other words, you haven't a clue, and no one is asking for your *Worthless* opine regarding leadership.

Thank you, and good night.

*****

[32JJW0311]

If you are given the honor of being a squad leader or guide then YES that will be your job.Keeping the platoon in check and correcting them if needed will be your responsibility if the Drill Instuctors are not around.The Drill Instuctors will get in your A$$ if you don't and may give the job to someone else if they don't think your able to do the job.If you loose the position of guide you may not get it back so stay on top of you game.


Ok that's very understandable. My recruiter said he got it right off the bat and then lost it 6hours later and never got it back. But he said if you lose it there is a chance of getting it back so hopefully if I did at all lose it once recieved I would be able to get it back, and learn how to become the leader that I need to be while being a Marine.

[Beltayn]

Now, every Senior Drill Instructor will have their own system, but I wouldn't get too concerned about overthinking who is made a squad leader or guide and who isn't and how long they keep it or why they get fired.
Many Drill Instructors use those positions merely as a chance to give various recruits a little taste of leadership, and will constantly hire and fire guides over the course of the cycle, having many different recruits fill leadership positions. I would not be surprised at all if there was some secret Drill Instructors' Play Book that on page 35 reads "Training Day 22: Randomly fire Guide and Squad Leaders on some minor pretext, just to keep platoon on their toes."
Additionally, it's pretty common for recruits who tend to just want to fly solo and leave everybody else behind to be thrown into a leadership billet too, as a way of forcing them to be more team-oriented by the simple expedient of making them get punished too when people who are not them mess up.
A trend that I have only rarely heard of being broken is that the first set of squad leaders and guide are literally simply the 5 biggest, most muscular recruits in the gaggle, who's role is to simply intimidate every other recruit into moving in the right direction. I've heard of platoons whose billets were determined only by who could do the most pull-ups, completely ignoring all other qualities.

Boot Camp is not OCS. It's designed to create reliable warfighters who can follow orders, not teach you how to give them.
Additionally, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE WILL CARE who held a billet in Boot Camp once you are out of Boot Camp.

So if you feel like you are the next Chesty Puller and you never get tapped to fill a billet the entire cycle, don't be surprised or disappointed. You will rate a meritorious promotion to PFC if you run a high 1st class PFT and shoot at least Sharpshooter on the range, with or without having filled a billet. That's the only part that matters.

[Beltayn]

MOS school, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely.

Graduating classes from MOS School ARE actually ranked based on their performance on the tests and evaluations, and the top Marines in a class actually get tangible benefits. Quite frequently, the top Marines in a class get to actually pick their first duty station. They also generally will get some kind of certificate of achievement which can go in your SRB which will look good on meritorious boards.

[32JJW0311]

Thanks Marines!!!

[Wyoming]

See post #2 here - http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=97471 (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97471)

[32JJW0311]

See post #2 here - http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=97471 (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97471)



I didn't ask for your imput!

[32JJW0311]

I didn't ask for your imput!



What's 165 mean anyways? Your PT score?

[Isrowei]

You're an idiot and you don't know what you're talking about. On top of that you're a disrespectful little sh*t who doesn't know when to stop his mouth from making him look like an utter fool.

[DrZ]

Something you need to learn and learn PDQ.... you are not required to respect the person... but you are required to ALWAYS respect the rank.

I don't care if the officer is a Butter Bar (O1) who is so damn new their uniform won't hold a decent crease yet.... they outrank E1 - E9, W1 - CWO4 but they know they have much to learn and are respectful in both directions. This shows maturity and wisdom beyond their years.

You have people like Isrowei. A Mustang. This means someone who has paid their dues as an enlisted person and went on to become an officer. These people should have your ultimate respect.

I posted in another area.... don't let your alligator mouth overload your hummingbird a$$....sadly.... I think you have done that!

Don't work so damn hard to impress us. Read.... listen...learn....and prepare yourself for boot.

[ameriken]

Whoa. And what's the 32 in your username? Your ASVAB score? Your IQ?

You've got a mouthing off problem. Don't disrespect other Marines. You're nothing more than a guest here, read the rules. He and every other Marine in this forum can post what they want in this forum whether you asked for their input or not. Your mouth is going to cost you that E3 so learn to shut and it learn what respect is. If you don't like what he or any other Marine says in this forum, then leave so no one else has to waste their time with you.

[Wyoming]

(Thanks Ken)

Enough about me.

Now about you.

Your profile is cute.

I do believe I can hear the Black Helicopters.



(Sure didn't take long for an Officer, a SNCO and an NCO to nail your butt.)

[terran1996]

][/FONT]



(Sure didn't take long for an Officer, a SNCO and an NCO to nail your butt.)

In or out Marines are Marines.:evilgrin:

[terran1996]

Listen more and run your suck less. Great advice for any career but more especialy for a wanabe.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Annnnd the Helos are enroute. Perhaps a 10 day extraction will teach you NOT to disrespect MARINES, ya little turdbag.

At this point, you couldn't lead a patrol out of the head with a K-Bar, a map, and a flashlite.

Unfrak yourself or it'll become 'Forever'.

[SGTBrentG]

Good call Sgt Lep. 10 days should give the young lad an opportunity to see and understand his mistakes and come back to show a little respect.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I'm feeling generous today. PLUS this gives him the chance to come back and apologize.....

NOTE: No apology, a perm. extraction will most assuredly follow. No profile......ditto.

Take that to the bank.

[Wyoming]

**** with one, you **** with them all.

Semper Fidelis, Sgt. Lep.

[SGTBrentG]

**** with one, you **** with them all.

Semper Fidelis, Sgt. Lep.

Yes indeed. Semper Fi.

[sparkie]

Dayum,,,,missed again.

[gunnyE7]

Enough said. You havn't earned the title or been through Boot Camp to know anything what it's like. Someday you will have bullets flying by your head and your best friend fall by your side and there will be nothing you can do about it, and once that time comes your cockyness won't help you. Disrespect a Marine once your a Marine you will have consequences and it won't be just 10 days it may be that rank you worked so hard for.
YOU MUST LEARN BEFORE YOU CAN TEACH!

[il duce]

someone PM me what I missed


I'm guessing the poolee didnt know his place?

[waitinferage21]

You want to be bad ass at PT.... that's the 3 mile run, 20 pull ups, and 100 crunches... you can't be weak. you want to have leadership... take control in all situations in boot camp that present oppurtunity. don't care if you get IT'd. say **** it and try to lead the troops. if you show leadership and that you can deal physically and mentally you'll make honor guide, which is higest you can get. Also you can try for iron man and all that.