Knee Problems: What should I do?

[alphasquirrel]

Back in October of '09 I decided I wanted to join the Marine Corps Reserves. With the support of my family I started the ball rolling.

I also started exercising immediately but had to stop running in only a few weeks due to knee and back issues.

I was sure I had only overdone it, rested and while I continued to work on my flexed-arm hang and crunches I was unable to run because of my knees and back.

I started seeing a chiropractor and was getting my back problems addressed when I saw my recruiter for the first time.

I was very open and honest with him and told him that while I was having some physical issues but I believed I could work through them. He assured me that as long as I had not had surgery or been diagnosed with back/knee problems I should just enlist and train to overcome my issues.

As soon as the pain subsided and I felt ready I started running again in January of this year and had to stop again in a couple of weeks due to knee issues again.

I kept on doing low-impact exercise and determined to take it even slower the next time around.

I went to MEPS in March, was sworn in to the DEP and enlisted. I was certain that I would work through my knee issues. I tried to run again only to be stopped by knee pain again.

Finally, I went and saw a sports medicine doctor and started physical therapy for my knees.

According to my doctor and my therapist I have healthy knees except that they are extremely flexible, prone to hyper-extension and are very loose so that when I do high-impact sports the bones of my knees impact each other heavily and cause more trauma than usual. When I explained my Marine Corps goals my therapist was a little ambiguous as to whether she thought my knees could handle the stresses of the Corps.

Nevertheless, in my determination, I pushed forward with the therapy and exercises.

I was the model patient and as soon as she approved me for running I started my PT with the other Poolees at my recruiter's office.

Within two weeks my knees were back to inflamed, swollen balls of stabbing pain. At the last Poolee function I hobbled around in pain in a vain attempt to play football.

I'm supposed to leave for Boot Camp in roughly three months and I'm beginning to think my knees will not handle the stress.

The SNCOIC knows about my knee issues and gave me a pass for running at the poolee function but my recruiter feels he was being too lenient and wants to make me run despite the searing pain and inflammation which my therapist warned me could lead to permanent damage if overdone.

This has turned out to be nine months of a revolving door of pain, rest and retrying and I'm not sure another three months is going to make the difference needed to make it through Recruit Training even though I'm returning to therapy next week.

What should/can I do?

Yes, I want to be a Marine but I don't want to go lame doing it.

But I already signed my contract and am sworn in to the DEP. I didn't lie at MEPS or anything. To that day I hadn't had any real reason to believe I couldn't physically serve. Now, after therapy and three more attempts to run I'm not so sure.

My recruiter wants to sweep these issues under the rug... who then should I talk to about them?

Advice?

[Zulu 36]

That's a bite in the butt for you. <br />
<br />
Running in DEP is easy compared to the marching, hiking, and running you'll do in boot camp and MCT. Your knees will take a serious beating. <br />
<br />
If they can't...

[2ndLAADBnWRENCH]

Sent PM email

Ooh-Aah

JB

[Lisa 23]

Maybe it's time that your doctor sends you for an MRI to make sure you don't have any type of damage in your knees.....torn ligaments, torn tendons, torn tissue in the knee, arthritis, and so on.
Better to be safe than sorry.

Good luck to you!

[alphasquirrel]

Zulu, those were my exact thoughts. If I can't go a couple of miles with body weight, how am I supposed to handle mile after mile of humping full gear?

I already have an appointment to go back and see my therapist. I'm trying to get back in to see my doctor who already said that if I was not doing better after therapy that she would do further testing to see if there was a deeper problem.

I have been doing the strength training, taking the joint supplements (that I won't be able to get in Boot Camp) and seeing my chiropractor. I am mostly pain free while doing daily run-of-the-mill stuff and low-impact exercises like swimming, but a couple of miles running and you might as well take a sledge to my knees they hurt so bad.

I tried to run through the pain twice and it was close to the most painful experience of my life. Afterward, my knees felt like they had their own heaters in them, swelled and even formed bruises around the top of them.

I'm supposed to check in with my recruiter tomorrow and I guess I'll just give him the update on my doctor's appointments and see what he wants to do with the info.

Will I have to go back to MEPS and have the MEPS doctors do a second evaluation?

[Zulu 36]

Zulu, those were my exact thoughts. If I can't go a couple of miles with body weight, how am I supposed to handle mile after mile of humping full gear?

I already have an appointment to go back and see my therapist. I'm trying to get back in to see my doctor who already said that if I was not doing better after therapy that she would do further testing to see if there was a deeper problem.

I have been doing the strength training, taking the joint supplements (that I won't be able to get in Boot Camp) and seeing my chiropractor. I am mostly pain free while doing daily run-of-the-mill stuff and low-impact exercises like swimming, but a couple of miles running and you might as well take a sledge to my knees they hurt so bad.

I tried to run through the pain twice and it was close to the most painful experience of my life. Afterward, my knees felt like they had their own heaters in them, swelled and even formed bruises around the top of them.

I'm supposed to check in with my recruiter tomorrow and I guess I'll just give him the update on my doctor's appointments and see what he wants to do with the info.

Will I have to go back to MEPS and have the MEPS doctors do a second evaluation?


It sucks, but you do need those knees for a few years yet. You're too young for knee replacement surgery and the Corps still wouldn't take you if you did.

I think it's unlikely you'll have to go back to MEPS. Talk to your recruiter and be as upfront with him as you have been here.

[alphasquirrel]

Talked to my recruiter this morning and, again, he dismissed everything saying it was probably just tendonitis and that I'll get over it.

He also said my biggest mistake was going to physical therapy?!?! Huh? I'm not entirely sure how medically prescribed therapy is bad for me.

I told him I start therapy again next week and that I'm going to try to get in to see my doctor again and he didn't sound very happy about that.

Like I said, yes, I want to be a Marine, but I don't want to go lame doing it and I'm not an idiot who thinks that there are no physical limitations in life and doing whatever, whenever to your body will not have consequences.

I'm just really hoping there's nothing seriously wrong with my knees. My worries about my enlistment come second to that.

[Zulu 36]

Talked to my recruiter this morning and, again, he dismissed everything saying it was probably just tendonitis and that I'll get over it.

He also said my biggest mistake was going to physical therapy?!?! Huh? I'm not entirely sure how medically prescribed therapy is bad for me.

I told him I start therapy again next week and that I'm going to try to get in to see my doctor again and he didn't sound very happy about that.

Like I said, yes, I want to be a Marine, but I don't want to go lame doing it and I'm not an idiot who thinks that there are no physical limitations in life and doing whatever, whenever to your body will not have consequences.

I'm just really hoping there's nothing seriously wrong with my knees. My worries about my enlistment come second to that.


He's full of crap. If running gives you bi-lateral "tendinitis" within two-weeks of resuming, then something is not right and you won't "get over it" just like that. As your sports medicine guy already told you, your knees tend to hyper-extend causing excessive stresses on the joint. You won't "get over" that, it's the way your knees are.

I've had tendinitis in my knees. It doesn't "just go away." The more you have it, the more susceptible you are to getting it again.

See your physician. Tell him what you will be expected to do in boot camp and MCT and in the fleet. Ask him for his opinion on whether you can reasonably be expected to "get over it" or not. Insist that he be completely up-front with you and pull no punches. If he says he doesn't think you could physically make boot camp, get it in writing. Forget the therapist's opinion, get it from the physician.

You can always seek a second opinion too, if you want.

Pain is a warning sign. It may build character, but it's still a warning sign. Sometimes pain is rather benign (for instance the sore muscles you get after a long layoff from working out), other times it means something is wrong and needs looking after. Your pain, with the swelling, is a serious sign that can't be ignored.

I'm not trying to discourage you, quite the opposite. I'd like to see you go to boot camp and make it through just fine. I'm very sorry this may cut your hopes short. However, you seem to have a good grip on reality and I think you'll be OK.

[alphasquirrel]

Thank you. This is sound advice. I'm waiting for a call back from the doctor's office to get an appointment. <br />
<br />
I agree that my pain and experiences seem to be more than just benign, normal muscular...

[2ndLAADBnWRENCH]

Sis <br />
<br />
Ya got a great family here on LeatherNecks.com n your hubby, doctor n sports therapist.. Your recruiter if full hog wash!!!! He is a quota hound n nothing more!!!!!!! You do whats right for...

[DrZ]

Your recruiter has a OIC. Request to speak to his/her OIC. Knees are not something to mess with. Marching, running, as well as the typical day to day extremes in boot camp can do long term damage you do not want.

Recruiters are not doctors and should not be dismissing issues of this nature.

Good Luck.

[alphasquirrel]

***UPDATE!***

Upon returning from vacation I made two appointments with my physical therapist while waiting to get in with my orthopedic surgeon.

My therapist did another extensive evaluation on me and said that the placement of both my feet and my hips is contributing to my knee pain. Also the flexibility in my knees is continuing to be a big problem resulting in a lot of trauma when I do high-impact sports like running.

In my next appointment I had another therapist who did a separate evaluation and said the flexibility in my knees combined with the tension of the tendons on the outside of my leg is pulling my knee caps to the outside of my legs and resulting in a lot of trauma to the inside of my knees. He also said my hips were both causing and being affected and my limping is causing a lot of wear and tear to my right hip.

His evaluation had to be one of the most painful things I've experienced in a long time. He also confirmed that almost all of the muscles and tendons around my knees are very inflamed and in need of rest, therapy and strength training.

Finally, off to the orthopedic surgeon today.

I gave her the notes from my therapy sessions and she did ANOTHER evaluation and said, "You cannot run."

Just to make sure we were being brutally honest I asked her if I would be able to handle the requirements of Marine Corps training and life and she said, "Absolutely not."

She said the flexibility of my hip, knee and ankle joints cause for a lot of space between the bones and impact causes a lot of trauma and bleeding which leads to the swelling and bruising I've been experiencing. She said if I kept it up I would destroy my knees and that she is going to write a letter stating I will not be able to safely complete Marine Corps training.

She recommended I continue with my therapy and keep doing low-impact exercises but sustained high-impact and weight bearing exercises will probably never be possible for me without pain and trauma that could become permanent.

On a good note she took an x-ray and said I don't have arthritis but that she would like to do an MRI to make sure the cartilage of my knees hasn't torn (whatever that means).

I'm very depressed by this news.

I called my recruiter and told him. His response was, "Suck it up."

He then said we would talk to the SNCOIC at the next poolee function in the upcoming week.

I guess we'll see what happens.

[tdrt]

Why? There's no sucking it up. Is being a Marine really worth ruining your knees, the constant pain, etc.?

[Zulu 36]

Cartilage is the material between the bones in your knees (and other joints). It's the same stuff your exterior ear and most of your nose is made of. It is designed to be a shock absorber and, in conjunction with a small amount of synovial fluid (a lubricant), reduces friction in the joint.

Torn cartilage causes pieces of cartilage to "float" in your knee joint creating pain and inefficient friction reduction. If there is any, the operation is generally a fairly simple arthroscopic procedure.

Arthritis is usually caused by a deterioration of the cartilage in the knee, creating friction (and pain) which could happen if you keep beating your knees up. I abused my body in the military and police work and I'm paying the price now with arthritis. Small price to pay considering what others have paid.

Your doctors have been blunt. You must follow their advice. Your recruiter is just going to have to find another female to sign up. Not your fault, not his fault. Your body is what it is.

Sorry the Marine Corps won't work out for you. At least you tried, which is more than many do.

[Lynn2]

I feel for you I really do. But the next time you are at the Mall watch out for those older folks and their walkers.

Using walkers is not what should happen. Its what can happen.

Cripe my Dad is 91 and still bow and rifle hunts, plays golf, and dances.

You want to be him someday not some 64 year old that can't walk without help.

[alphasquirrel]

**** Final Update **** <br />
<br />
The phrase, &quot;If I can do it, anyone can,&quot; is something overused in our society. Of that I am sure. <br />
<br />
I heard a female Marine say that once in regards to joining the Corps...

[DrZ]

Alpha,
When I entered the Corps.... I had no knee issues. In the middle of my 2nd tour, during a PFT... I felt a sharp pain in my right knee. By the end of the PFT, my right knee was almost 3 times the size of my left one. A trip to the doc who shook his head and sent me to an orthopedists. After multiple visits and MRIs, poking and proding....the Docs determined I had torn the meniscus in my knee. Surgery was next and the meniscus was removed (mid 70s.... supposedly wasn't repairable.) After therapy... it seemed to work properly...except during the PFT...where I limped like an old man toward the end of the 3 miles. Now... I am an old man.... and the knee is at the point where the doctor's are talking about replacing the entire thing. So... I will get a shiny titanium knee in my 6th decade of life.

Moral of the story.... DON'T MESS WITH YOUR KNEES....the one's you have are supposed to last a lifetime.

There are many ways to serve.... the Marines are not the only way.

[Old Marine]

Sure am glad that I retired many years ago. If I were still on active duty and still a Drill Instructor, it would be hell to have to put up with these medical rehab privates that seem to always find their way to some Marine Recruiter. Used to be we would get a pickup from STB and the first thing we did was put them on the pull up bar and you guessed it, couldn't do one pullup. Always had paper work filled out and just had to add a name to it and away they would go, back to STB. Doubt if that is done today. Yes sir, glad I am not on the grinder today. I would probably be relieved most of the time.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Gunny, I can see your point. I think some of it nowadays comes down to the better ability to 'rehab' the broken ones back up to speed, quicker than in the past. Also, the money issue comes into play (I seriously think this) in that the Marine Corps has taken the time, and $$$ to get 'said recruit' to the depot, and they want to get their dollars worth for 'em before they send them back home.

Just my 2 cents though.

[Old Marine]

Gunny, I can see your point. I think some of it nowadays comes down to the better ability to 'rehab' the broken ones back up to speed, quicker than in the past. Also, the money issue comes into play (I seriously think this) in that the Marine Corps has taken the time, and $$$ to get 'said recruit' to the depot, and they want to get their dollars worth for 'em before they send them back home.

Just my 2 cents though.

The Government wastes a lot of money daily. These medical rehab pvts should never get by the doctors when they take their physicals. I realize a lot of them are shoved through by the doctors and they figure that the privates can become someone else's problem.

We always had the crutch brigade of at any time having 4 to eight privates following the platoon around will numerous medical problems, which were recruit training related. Mostly heel contusions and stress fractures.

If they have a problem before entering they should be canned and save a lot of people the headaches of trying to train them while they whine all the time.:evilgrin:

[alphasquirrel]

If they have a problem before entering they should be canned and save a lot of people the headaches of trying to train them while they whine all the time.:evilgrin:
Well, this is exactly what they did in my case.

Both of my recruiter's wanted to push me through. It was the SNCOIC who made the final call to separate me from the DEP after watching me run at the last poolee function.

Also, as of last month they told everyone at the poolee function that it's new Marine Corps policy that before you ship to boot camp you have two pass two ISTs. One 30 days from your ship date and one 96 hours before you ship. If you fail either one you don't ship, period.

No more shipping people to Boot Camp to fail their ISTs and be put in PCP.

I was maxed on my flexed arm hang and fine with my crunches but it's pretty obvious why my run time was not doing so well.

I'm really grateful to the SNCOIC for being an honest and caring guy. He was looking out for my interests and I really appreciate him for that.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Alpha, that's a good thing, but I also know it sucks for you to a certain extent.

Gunny, I believe nowadays your last line is actually enforced far more than it once was. I talk to 'wannabees' all the time (not just on this site) who've been
DQ'd for 'minor' medical issues. The MEPS doctors these days are looking more to 'reject' the potential recruit, than they were when I enlisted...at least it seems so.