View Full Version : Counter-insurgency the key to a USMC with a future?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-marines-future-20100621,0,4124316.story?track=rss
I sure hope not...having deployed to COIN-OP environments I am convinced this is not something Marines should be doing in a leading capacity. Just cruising this website and reading the opinions of most young Marines (who make up the vast majority of the Corps), and many salty Marines, it is pretty clear we are trained in the mentality of an aggressive offensive force. There needs to be drastic change, starting at bootcamp, if we are going to focus on COIN...I don't think its a good idea. I like my Marines, and my Marine Corps the way we are.
I sure hope not...having deployed to COIN-OP environments I am convinced this is not something Marines should be doing in a leading capacity. Just cruising this website and reading the opinions of most young Marines (who make up the vast majority of the Corps), and many salty Marines, it is pretty clear we are trained in the mentality of an aggressive offensive force. There needs to be drastic change, starting at bootcamp, if we are going to focus on COIN...I don't think its a good idea. I like my Marines, and my Marine Corps the way we are.
Interesting observation. Not sure though what I think about it. My time being so long ago.
But I do think the MC needs to have a niche.
So many of the traditional jobs that Marines did when I was in seem to no longer be USMC jobs in any significant way.
Security on Navy ships? Guarding the USNA or other places like it? Invasions from the sea?
If its tough to tell a US Army from a US Marine Corps then I think its a legit question to ask as to why you have two of them.
And if that question is asked its for sure it will not be the US Army going away.
Sure sure not this year. Not next. But 20 years from now? 40 years from now?
People have tried to get rid of the Marine Corps several times claiming it a superfluous organization. I don't see it happening, but who knows. We are a small and cheap force that potentially provide a high level of execution at minimal cost.
I think the Marine Corps niche is a rapid deployment force/force in readiness. Prime example is the 26th MEU(SOC) in Afghanistan in 2001....deployed to Kandahar, took it, and held it until Army main forces arrived (and then the Army's weapons a few days later).
Zulu 36
06-21-10, 01:12 PM
The Corps has been involved in COIN Ops off and on for most of it's existence. We have literally written the book on small wars. The Corps seems to do a better job at COIN even today, although I agree that it should not be a primary mission for the Marine Corps. But it is a skill set that should be kept sharp.
The Army does not have anything like a MEU (SOC). Even the paratroopers can't land with armor, artillery, dedicated air support and helos, and a dedicated logistics operation. Although the Corps is fairly light, paras are even lighter and have limited logistics early in an operation, while a MEU is good for at least a month.
AAV Crewchief
06-21-10, 01:27 PM
I sure hope not...having deployed to COIN-OP environments I am convinced this is not something Marines should be doing in a leading capacity. Just cruising this website and reading the opinions of most young Marines (who make up the vast majority of the Corps), and many salty Marines, it is pretty clear we are trained in the mentality of an aggressive offensive force. There needs to be drastic change, starting at bootcamp, if we are going to focus on COIN...I don't think its a good idea. I like my Marines, and my Marine Corps the way we are.
I agree with Hussaf. I don't agree with Lynn. The Marines do have their niche. They are always out and about even during times of peace. Aside from the Navy and CJSOAC/Spec Ops, everyone else is sitting on their dead asses waiting for something to happen. Marines always get the toughest of jobs and carry them out to perfection. You can look back through history and see it written. Most recently in Astan and not too far back Fallujah.
AAV Crewchief
06-21-10, 01:40 PM
Also, had the Corps not had the capability to do an amphibious assault in the first Gulf War, 50% of Saddam's troops would not have been tied down on the beaches in Kuwait City waiting for an assault that turned out only to be a feint which allowed the giant left hook of the helicopter and airborne army forces to use that avenue of approach and allowed the Marines in Saudi to punch through Saddam's berms and annihilate his armored corps (what was left of it after 6 weeks of bombing) and infantry to the point that caused most of the Iraqi army to get caught up in the turkey shoot on the Road to Basra. You've all seen the pictures. It caused even George Bush I to call off of war after 100 hours of the ground phase because the intel/graphic pics made GB I "nauseous". AA is the "bread and butter" of the Corps. To get away from what makes the Marines the Marines is asinine because they don't fight like army and aren't cannon fodder like the army is used from time to time.
AAV Crewchief
06-21-10, 01:43 PM
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/IST/IST517/wreckage-road-basra_~1247163.jpg
Road to Basra carnage...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/iraq_events/img/175s/ground_war.jpg
AAV Crewchief
06-21-10, 01:46 PM
More..........http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0210/eb3f4e639dbeb4935128.jpeg
More......
http://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/abom/uran/tokushu/img/hiwayb.jpg
AAV Crewchief
06-21-10, 01:47 PM
Another....http://iconicphotos.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/highway-of-death.jpeg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Demolished_vehicles_line_Highway_80_on_18_Apr_1991 .jpg/300px-Demolished_vehicles_line_Highway_80_on_18_Apr_1991 .jpg
@ AAV,
LOL, I don't know if perfection is the word I'd use! I tend to lean towards the "no matter how hard we try to sabotage our own missions, we still get them done" depiction of the Marine Corps.
Life in the Marine Corps, and the purpose of being a Marine, reminds me of a Japanese saying "hiya meshi o Michi" or "the way of eating cold rice." Explained here (http://books.google.com/books?id=k3T-ySa_gU4C&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=%22hiya+meshi+o+Michi%22&source=bl&ots=0jHV8-w6oL&sig=yDsTnj_QBF8GRhCXYzfc0j7YAs4&hl=en&ei=pLofTPOxGIH58AaQ1fnCDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22hiya%20meshi%20o%20Michi%22&f=false) Or stated more simply, "Marines make do." I think most Marines who have done dirt and read that link will draw corollaries with their own experiences in the Corps.
While maybe not quite directly related to this thread, I think it speaks of intangible benefits of having a Marine Corps in the US arsenal. To paraphrase historical statements "Marines are the weapons themselves."
I think those images speak volumes. War really is not a good thing. I have no desire to kill other people...although I admit to getting pumped up and psyched before, during, and just after raids....when I sit down and think about it, its not something I really want to do as much as its something that needs doing.
Danny C Smith
06-21-10, 05:18 PM
Here is my simple minded opinion.
If the Marine Corps goes away?
The World is going to be hating life.
Doesn't matter what some fat azzed politician
setting behind a desk "thinks".
The Marine Corps is essential.:flag: