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Yankeeloon200
06-15-10, 11:27 AM
Ive been researching this MOS in the navy, i was looking at doing infantry in the marines a few weeks ago but im coming around to the idea that its not going to help me alot when i get out of the marine corps in skills unless i want to become a hitman, and i was looking at the medical field in the army but their not really calling me like the marines are and i dont want to sit around at a desk and help people, i want to be with marines on the frontlines no other branch calls me like them and i want to serve my country with marines infantryman. so then i was talking with my uncle and he said to research Navy Corpsman

I saw that they are the medics towards marines unit and now im really thinking about calling a navy recruiter, im asking this in a marines forum though because i want to know from any current marines if they have had Corpsman serve with them? Will i be able to ask to take the combat medic side instead of the Hospital side? Im not sure if Navy MOS's are guaranteed but i would hate if i joined and they decide if i was going to be put with a infantry unit or not. I would like to help out marines unit's only and i would like some training in a field that could translate to maybe a nurse etc when my enlistment is up and i see this MOS kind of being a win-win situation for me

Lisa 23
06-15-10, 11:35 AM
I'm sure another Marine will be along to answer your questions.. but when using the words Marine or Marine Corps, they will be capitalized at all times.
You may want to read the site rules in the poolee and Ask A Marine forums. too.

tdrt
06-15-10, 11:40 AM
Ive been researching this MOS in the navy, i was looking at doing infantry in the marines a few weeks ago but im coming around to the idea that its not going to help me alot when i get out of the marine corps in skills unless i want to become a hitman, and i was looking at the medical field in the army but their not really calling me like the marines are and i dont want to sit around at a desk and help people, i want to be with marines on the frontlines no other branch calls me like them and i want to serve my country with marines infantryman. so then i was talking with my uncle and he said to research Navy Corpsman

I saw that they are the medics towards marines unit and now im really thinking about calling a navy recruiter, im asking this in a marines forum though because i want to know from any current marines if they have had Corpsman serve with them? Will i be able to ask to take the combat medic side instead of the Hospital side? Im not sure if Navy MOS's are guaranteed but i would hate if i joined and they decide if i was going to be put with a infantry unit or not. I would like to help out marines unit's only and i would like some training in a field that could translate to maybe a nurse etc when my enlistment is up and i see this MOS kind of being a win-win situation for me

Yes, it would be a win-win; and this topic has already been covered just recently so search a little.

DanM
06-15-10, 03:33 PM
Yankeeloon200,

If you want to be a Marine, see a Marine recruiter. If you want to be a Hospital Corpsman ,see a Navy recruiter.

You can only be guarenteed HM 8404 "C" school with a reserve contract. Active duty only HM "A" school is guarenteed and you could be assigned to where ever the Navy needs you.

If you talk to a Navy recruiter you need to know what to ask,as most will not have details and probably don't know that all training is going Tri-service April 2011 at Ft. Sam Houston. See link to for more info and ask questions there if needed.

http://www.corpsman.com/forum/

Quinbo
06-15-10, 06:38 PM
The Marines have Corpsman. The Army has medics. If you are interested in being a medic go see an Army recruiter. Yes the Army will guarentee you the medic MOS.

CQB0316
06-15-10, 06:46 PM
Um, a hitman?

A nurse? Drop your purse and be a paramedic.

Anyway if your in decent physical shape and you want to get a medical career after Military service, I would look into Air Force Para-Rescue. Long and tough school, but you become a certified paramedic after the course. I know if I was interested in getting into the medical field this is route I would have taken.

Lynn2
06-16-10, 06:46 AM
Being a Navy Corpsman is a great gig. Sure there is no 100% in life. But from everything I have read males who want FMF are not having a tough time.

But you have to be ready for anything. Just as if you had joined the Marines. You could join the Marines for infantry and then find the needs of the Corps having you doing something not directly in the infantry.

So in short you could not flip out if at some point you are on a ship giving medical care to sailors.

The nicest thing about being a Doc is how much flex you have in what you do. Some Docs have served as patrol leaders (vietnam) for or walked point on USMC Recon Teams.

There are very few Marines in this world that can make that claim or have had that opportunity.

Its a high risk job. Especially if you find yourself on the tip of the spear in combat. But if you do your job you will be eternally loved.

And if you make it and get to a reunion year later I expect a standing ovation with crying Marines when the Docs are announced.

Its that kind of job.

TJR1070
06-16-10, 07:45 AM
If I had to do it all over again I would have shipped over to the Navy after my first enlistment to become a corpsman. CQB is right about Para-Rescue but from what I've seen and heard about the program it is extremely difficult and I think takes almost two years to complete. Since it is the elite of special forces in the Air Force I would assume it is very competitive, but it might be worthwhile to investigate all options.

Quinbo
06-17-10, 08:24 AM
Corpsman are cool. It would have to be a pretty pathetic unit if they have to put their doc on point.

Lynn2
06-17-10, 08:43 AM
Corpsman are cool. It would have to be a pretty pathetic unit if they have to put their doc on point.

Its a 4 or 8 man team. A small team. And stuff happens on a small team that does not happen in the rest of the infantry or the rest of the Corps.

Walking point? Docs in fact served as patrol leaders. How many I have not a clue. More than one for sure. But maybe not many more. (Doc Norton was at least one of those Docs)

I'd say that Alpha 3rdRecon was not a "pathetic unit". But then I am a bit biased.

But I got to do darn near as much as I wanted. I never walked point all that much. 3 or 4 times at most. But at the times I did it I was one of the more experienced hands on the patrol.

And I did it because I wanted to do it. No other reason.

I found that if you raised your hand quick enough you could do some stuff most just dream about. Walking point was not nearly at the top of that "interesting stuff."

Doc

Quinbo
06-17-10, 09:27 AM
The older we get the better we were. I wasn't out there with you so I take your word as true.

Lynn2
06-17-10, 09:38 AM
The older we get the better we were. I wasn't out there with you so I take your word as true.

I could care less if you take my word or not.

You were not recon you were not VN. So at least as far as this discussion you have zilch first hand experience.

If you had been you would not have even blinked at what I said.


I will say it again. Navy Corpsman on recon teams at least in VN got to do stuff most Marines only dream about. The nature of the war. The nature of the small Team.

I cannot speak for the Docs on recon teams today. I have no idea what they are doing or not doing. But back in the day........

Yankeeloon200
06-17-10, 01:25 PM
Um, a hitman?

A nurse? Drop your purse and be a paramedic.

Anyway if your in decent physical shape and you want to get a medical career after Military service, I would look into Air Force Para-Rescue. Long and tough school, but you become a certified paramedic after the course. I know if I was interested in getting into the medical field this is route I would have taken.

Yea, i have actually been looking to be in Pararescue since i was in middle school, but the standards are probably the highest out of any training in the military branches and right now i think their is a 98% wash out rate. i love helping people and i truly do LOVE helping people thats why im interested in the medical field, and Pararescue Mens motto just say it all... and parachuting is my favorite hobby, i definitely plan on making it a career if i try out for it.

But right now ive made my decision and its my goal to become a Marine first, serve my country as a 03XX and protect the freedom of the American people, and that my friend is worth more then any paycheck the world can give me. If i still here that Pararescue call after my Marine enlistment i will try out and hopefully 03XX will help me in the goal to become a Pararescueman Physically and Mentally, but right now the Marines are my calling and i will take it from their...

Thanks for the answers Marines.

TJR1070
06-18-10, 07:39 AM
I met a Navy Corpsman at Camp LeJuene's Wounded Warrior barracks (when my FD went there) that was the Doc in a STA Plt. He told me that he had gone to Scout/Sniper school and was an active member of the team when out on missions. He was wounded when the insurgents opened up on the building he and his team were observing old IED blast sites from. While the team was leaving the house to get to the extraction point the insurgents set off an IED buried in the sidewalk severely injuring every member of his team and himself.

Lynn2
06-18-10, 11:13 AM
"He told me that he had gone to Scout/Sniper school"

I am not sure how many docs have become school trained USMC snipers. But I have read of some.

I on the other hand could not hit the side of a barn if I was inside the barn.

DanM
06-18-10, 11:48 AM
I believe it is against Navy Regs and the Geneva Convention for a Corpsman to be an active sniper.

Lynn2
06-18-10, 12:40 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A42636-2003Mar17&notFound=true

DanM, here is one article about a Navy Doc that went to and graduated from USMC sniper school.

The Convention? I am not sure what they would have thought when I was the M-79 man for my Recon Team (2x on multi-day missions)

Lynn2
06-18-10, 12:51 PM
"Allan was one of those Corpsmen who did more than his job and learned the skills of his companions, according to the Marines. Later on his second tour of duty with the Marines, Allan volunteered to be with a Marine Surveillance and Target Acquisition (STA) Platoon. Allan was among the first few Navy Corpsmen to undergo training and qualify as Marine Scout Snipers, earning the coveted Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) 8541.
He also completed Mountain Warfare Training and qualified as a parachutist. On his first deployment to Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) he earned his gold jump wings on the second day of the invasion. His unit belonging to the Weapons Company, 1st Battalion, 7th Marines entered Iraq by doing a combat jump (Airborne entry) in an enemy held area."



And this above comes from a different article about a different Doc. It refers to him as---- "among the first few" Docs who attended and graduated sniper school.

Lynn2
06-18-10, 02:42 PM
"I believe it is against Navy Regs and the Geneva Convention for a Corpsman to be an active sniper."

I find any discussion about the Geneva Convention and protections for Corpsman to be an odd one.

I can see field hospitals and such. I can see guys with stretchers roaming a battle field looking for wounded.

Maybe even infantry Docs.

But anyone on a small Team whether that be some SpecOps team, Recon team, SEAL team, Sniper team, etc I find that to be a joke.

You have maybe 7 guys and they are all dressed the same, they are all armed to the teeth, and they are all shooting.

Beyond silly to think that one of those 7 is somehow different than the rest. Or should be treated in combat any different than the rest.

In fact I do not believe that Team Docs fall under the Convention in the same way other Docs do. But I have only a vague memory of reading something along this line.

No link.

When we went out I was normally the most heavily armed among us. Being that I was usually the only one with a back up weapon.

Doc

DanM
06-18-10, 03:11 PM
From HMC-FMF-PJ on corpsman.com..........

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/navyregs.aspx (http://doni.daps.dla.mil/navyregs.aspx)

U.S. Navy Regulations, 1990, Chapter 10, Section 3, Article 1063

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/US%20Navy%2...%20Command.pdf (http://doni.daps.dla.mil/US%20Navy%20Regulations/Chapter%2010%20-%20Precedence,%20Authority%20and%20Command.pdf)

Chapter 10 - Precedence, Authority and Command
Section 3 - Detail to Duty

1063. Detail of Persons Performing Medical or Religious Services.

While assigned to combat area during a period of armed conflict, members of Medical, Dental, Chaplain, Medical Service, Nurse or Hospital Corps and Dental Technicians shall be detailed or permitted to perform only such duties as are related to medical, dental or religious service and the administration of medical, dental or religious units and establishments. This restriction is necessary to protect the noncombatant status of these personnel under the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949.

Lynn2
06-18-10, 03:33 PM
From HMC-FMF-PJ on corpsman.com..........

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/navyregs.aspx (http://doni.daps.dla.mil/navyregs.aspx)

U.S. Navy Regulations, 1990, Chapter 10, Section 3, Article 1063

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/US%20Navy%2...%20Command.pdf (http://doni.daps.dla.mil/US%20Navy%20Regulations/Chapter%2010%20-%20Precedence,%20Authority%20and%20Command.pdf)

Chapter 10 - Precedence, Authority and Command
Section 3 - Detail to Duty

1063. Detail of Persons Performing Medical or Religious Services.

While assigned to combat area during a period of armed conflict, members of Medical, Dental, Chaplain, Medical Service, Nurse or Hospital Corps and Dental Technicians shall be detailed or permitted to perform only such duties as are related to medical, dental or religious service and the administration of medical, dental or religious units and establishments. This restriction is necessary to protect the noncombatant status of these personnel under the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949.

Dan, like I said above I am pretty sure (without a link) that this does not apply to Team Docs or Spec Ops Docs or ReconDocs or however you refer to them.

The reality is that Navy Corpsman served as Patrol Leaders for USMC Recon Teams in VN, they carried the M-79, they were full on shooters first and medical folks 2nd (just the nature of the reality on any small Team) and they have attended and graduated from USMC sniper schools and have served on USMC sniper Teams as a school trained sniper.

DanM
06-18-10, 04:03 PM
The above links are Navy Regs,but everyone knows that in a combat situation regs are frequently put aside.

I do not have up to date experience,but Corpsman assigned to SEAL teams are for medical support. Corpsman who graduate from SEAL training are no longer HM's but are SO's.

Lynn2
06-18-10, 04:19 PM
The above links are Navy Regs,but everyone knows that in a combat situation regs are frequently put aside.

I do not have up to date experience,but Corpsman assigned to SEAL teams are for medical support. Corpsman who graduate from SEAL training are no longer HM's but are SO's.

I think that apples to everyone on a SEAL Team if I am not mistaken. SEAL becomes their primary rate as opposed to RadarMan or RadioMan. That is a Navy Rate issue not a combat issue per se. And it would have nothing to do at all with the reality on the ground. No matter the rate the job is the same on those small Teams.

And this does not as far as I know apply to the Marines. Those Team Docs still have Navy Doc Rates

It may seem nit picky to some but everyone on a Team is a full on shooter. Everyone on that Team knows it. Everyone that sent that Team out knows it. Everyone that Team runs up against knows it.

And any wannabe thinking of being a Recon Doc or SARC needs to know this. If you do not want to be an active shooter do not pick that gig.

Now I do agree that things happen in combat that are not taught in the books or covered by the regs.

But these Docs going through Sniper School are not in combat. They are attending the school and having their graduation and their deployment as snipers covered in newspapers.

That is a very public thing. Not a we got to do this because its combat thing.

DanM
06-18-10, 04:24 PM
Here is one thread on corpsman.com which discusses this,there are many more.

http://www.corpsman.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19351&page=2

Sgt Leprechaun
06-18-10, 06:29 PM
Regardless, (and as someone who is well familiar with the Geneva Convention re: Medical personnel) it's something that nowadays walks a very fine line, IMO. I, for one, have no idea why on earth you need a Corpsman as a sniper.

Next, if said Corpsman IS a sniper, he sure is in violation of his Geneva Convention card as well as the regs.

Corpsman on SEAL teams, RECON, and the like, their PRIMARY job is that of Corpsman, but obviously due to the nature of the mission, carrying of a weapon is required. (For protection of patients). Once the 'Doc' starts becoming 'engaged', he basically loses the protection of the GC.

The GC, dealing with medical personnel, basically considers them as 'neutral/noncombatants', along the lines of chaplains, etc. They aren't supposed to be held (but often are) as regular POW's. However, once they start engaging in active combat operations, they lose that protection and it doesn't just 'come back' because they drop the weapon and start doing patient care.

Lynn2
06-19-10, 08:38 AM
"Once the 'Doc' starts becoming 'engaged', he basically loses the protection of the GC."

In theory this may well be the case. In theory. Sort of like how many angels will fit on the head of a pin.

But its a silly statement even if true.

You go out with 3 other Team members. You get hit. Of course all 4 are going to be shooting back.

Saying this "for the protection of the patient" when talking about a small Team is beyond silly. Not if you are trying to say what the reality is on the ground.

If you have not been on a Team in combat or will not be on one in the future a discussion based in theory is harmless -----but totally misleading.

The reality is I knew a Doc who with one Marine with him crawled into a VC base camp-village at approx 1 am to do a 2 man recon for an hour or so. Slipped in during the dead of night. A very hot base camp or ville.

I knew a Corpsman that was found on a trail up in PhuBai with a co-worker Marine along armed only with KBars as they waited for VC-NVA they were pretty sure were following them----"take the kbars and leave the rifles-----and don't make any focking noise if you have to use them"

That is reality not theory based on regs that is real only in reg books.

I know I know Marines are saying WTF how could a Doc be doing that when I never came close to something like this ?

Its all in the rate you pick :-)

TJR1070
06-21-10, 07:23 AM
The corpsman I met said that his team was usually out for several days and that everyone took a turn at watch on the primary weapon and if that is when the target appeared so be it. Since he was with STA Plt. his first deployment and they wanted to keep him with the unit, they sent him to scout/sniper school and then were able to permanently assign him to STA.

Quinbo
06-21-10, 07:29 AM
I have a difficult time argueing with someone with dillusions of grandeaur but I'll take a swing.

You are basically saying you are better than the Marines you served with?
Why didn't they just send you on fuсking patrol on your own rambo? If you are vicariously trying to be that one special guy that somehow scored a quota at sniper school then you need to go to church and repent your sins.

Lynn2
06-21-10, 08:38 AM
"You are basically saying you are better than the Marines you served with?"

If that is aimed at me?

Not at all. The Recon Marines I served with in VN were all top notch. All hard chargers all hand raisers to be in that unit. Guys who did truly dangerous and very interesting stuff as a normal daily routine. Day in and day out.

What I am saying is that if you are a SARC or Recon Doc (can't speak for STA since I have no first hand experience) assigned to a Team you will be doing the exact same stuff as your Recon Marine co-workers.

And that stuff they will be doing is stuff that many Marines never get a chance to do. That is not chest thumping that is just a fact.

Or I should say at least in my day most Marines I saw never got a chance to do the sort of things I and my fellow Navy Recon Docs did in the normal course of our job.


So no I am not saying I or any other Recon or Team Doc is in any way better than you. I did though (as did every other Recon VN Doc I know) have combat experiences and did traditional Marine type of combat stuff in combat that you never got to do.


That is what a wannabe needs to know if they come here and ask questions. What their job will really be like.

And being told 2nd or 3rd hand info by guys who never tried out for a Team, were never on a Team, or never on a Team in combat is IMO not all that helpful to them. Because these people tend not to know what it was like in real time.

Sort of like me trying to tell a wannabe what MC boot camp is like.

In short talking about carrying weapons only to protect a wounded pt while on a small Team is silly and not at all helpful to the wannabe with questions.

Quinbo
06-21-10, 10:02 AM
"
So no I am not saying I or any other Recon or Team Doc is in any way better than you. I did though (as did every other Recon VN Doc I know) have combat experiences and did traditional Marine type of combat stuff in combat that you never got to do.


:scared::bunny::D

Sgt Leprechaun
06-21-10, 07:04 PM
And that's fine. BUT it's not 'rhetorical'. Having served myself in a medical capacity in the Air Force, and gone through all the "Geneva Convention" classes, I know what I'm talking about.

And I'm telling you, regardless, you pick up a weapon and stand a post, you are no longer covered under the GC, period. BTW, THAT is why the Chaplain is assigned an RP who goes through *some* infantry training (or they did when I was at 2nd FSSG). Because it's against the rules for them to carry weapons. Not what they are about.

I'm not saying I have an issue with it, one way or the other. I've seen and worked with PLENTY of Corpsman who toted weapons and did what they had to do. I have the greatest respect for them.

But know what you are doing when you do it.

Lynn2
06-22-10, 07:41 AM
Lep, I think you and I are saying the same thing.

Is any of this important or just old rantings among a couple of formers?

Over the years I have seen a lot of kids like this OP. Kids who were not sure. They wanted to be on that tip. They wanted infantry. They may have wanted spec ops.

But after their service and what they will be doing is an issue for some of these kids. Medical field, doctor, nurse, paramedic, have all been mentioned at one time or another over the years.

In this case for this type of person its not an either or. In this case going Navy and FMF Doc and maybe SARC is a perfect choice.

And the kid wants to be doing dangerous stuff. Then 8404 will fit that bill big time.

The kid wants to be doing some life saving. Then 8404 will fit that bill.

The kid wants to be highly trained in the combat arts really highly trained in the combat arts and become a full time shooter as well as a medical person then 8427 is beyond perfect for them.

"SARCs have regularly acted as the point man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_man), as the radio operator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_operator), or even the team leader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_leader) in the Marine recon teams/platoons"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Amphibious_Reconnaissance_Corps man

Lynn2
06-22-10, 08:14 AM
And two additional points for any wannabe reading this.

If your other choice is SEAL then trying for SARC may be a better option.

If you get hurt in SEAL training and wash out you will be doing something else in the Navy.

If you get hurt in the SARC pipeline and washout you will be with the USMC infantry no doubt.

If you are concerned about not getting the combat arts training the Marine grunts get then take a look at that link I posted just above.

As a Navy-FMF SARC you will get a more varied combat training experience in a wider variety of schools and that constant ojt than most 0311's will ever see.

Sgt Leprechaun
06-22-10, 11:44 AM
Lynn, I think we are just ranting LOL. Point taken.

Quinbo
09-20-10, 05:37 PM
;)

Yankeeloon200
09-20-10, 07:55 PM
Lol nice job resurrecting this thread i totally forgot about it. Wow i was thinking about being a Navy Corpsman, and now im a AG Contract Poolee i would have never thought.