Defense Department Opposes Marine/Navy Name Change

[Rocky C]

By James K. Sanborn - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jun 7, 2010 17:51:07 EDT

The Defense Department officially opposes renaming the Department of the Navy the Department of the Navy and Marine Corps, according to an official Dod letter sent to Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

“In our view, the renaming of the Department is unnecessary, would incur additional expense of several hundred thousands dollars a year over the next several years … and would not enhance the standing or reputation of the Marine Corps,” wrote Jeh Charles Johnson, DoD’s general counsel.

Every year since 2001, Rep. Walter B. Jones, R-N.C., has spearheaded an effort to rename the department. Slow to gain support in its initial years, the bill passed the House this year with a record-breaking 425 co-sponsors.

A sister bill in the Senate, authored by Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., has been referred to the Armed Services Committee. The bill has yes to receive widespread support from the Senate, although this year it has an all-time high of 28 co-sponsors

[temarti]

Then we shall keep fighting

[Rocky C]

Then we shall keep fighting


:usmc::thumbup::usmc:

[Kegler300]

"Department of the Marine Corps - Navy In Tow"

[Rocky C]

"Department of the Marine Corps - Navy In Tow"

:D

[USNAviator]

The Marines should have been cut loose from the Navy after WW2, just as the Army Air Corps became the Air Force.

The Corps should be autonomous. It should have an equal say in what goes on in the Joint Chiefs. Hell, I bet if they were finally cut loose, maybe they would get some decent equipment for their TOA instead of hand-me-downs!

[temarti]

The Marines should have been cut loose from the Navy after WW2, just as the Army Air Corps became the Air Force.

Great point and a good piece of history that many do not know unless they took Aviation history in College.

[Quinbo]

Navy running around saying they are in the Marines. Marines running around saying they are in the Navy. Cats and dogs living together. WTF?

Why not just make it the department of everything then everyone gets to play Marine? You know every Marine is a rifleman .... every sailor is a rifleman. We'll all go to boot camp at great lakes and learn how to paint a ship navy grey. They're already all but wearing our uniform. Why not just tack the navy monicker on to the Marines.

Not the other way around.

[Lynn2]

Seems to me that if you sat down with a blank sheet of paper and a group of military experts and you had to draw up a new "US Military" and you had a budget ($$$) to keep within its not out of the question that a Marine Corps as we know it would not make the final cut.

Seems to me that you would be hard pressed to argue why a 2nd ground force. Especially since landing from the sea would be a very rare thing now.

[yanacek]

Personally, I though this proposal was nothing more than BS to make Marines feel good. It's virtually the only legislation proposed by my congressman that I did not agree with. The CMC is already and equal member of the JCS and has been for years. Of course, I thinks its BS that the DOD cites the reason of additional expenses in hundred thousand dollar range--like $500,000 or so is going to bankrupt the nation. I would much rather eliminate the Department of the Air Force and put it back under the Army (War Department). Less bureaucrats to pay that way.

[kenrobg30]

Personally, I though this proposal was nothing more than BS to make Marines feel good. It's virtually the only legislation proposed by my congressman that I did not agree with. The CMC is already and equal member of the JCS and has been for years. Of course, I thinks its BS that the DOD cites the reason of additional expenses in hundred thousand dollar range--like $500,000 or so is going to bankrupt the nation. I would much rather eliminate the Department of the Air Force and put it back under the Army (War Department). Less bureaucrats to pay that way.

I have to agree with you, Yanichek. This bill, opens up a can of worms, that will only make things hairier than they have always been. The Navy has a history of old Navy officers advocating the abollishment of the Marine Corps, for as long as I can remember. If this bill gets passed, those old swabbies are going to bring up the arguement, that The Country already has an Army, with a half dozen 'Elite' Units, such as the Green Beanies, and the Airborne, so what do we need a Marine Corps for ? The Berets, and The Chutists are being used as examples, to advocate, disbanding the Marine Corps, and it's being done, right under our noses. I say leave it as it is, Our Corps will live longer.:iwo::flag::marine: S/F!! Ken

[AAV Crewchief]

We are a department of the NAVY, the MEN'S DEPARTMENT:D

[AAV Crewchief]

I would much rather eliminate the Department of the Air Force and put it back under the Army (War Department). Less bureaucrats to pay that way.

Uh, HELL NO. I'm in the AF reserves and resent every word of that.

[FattyTheFerret]

The Marines should have been cut loose from the Navy after WW2, just as the Army Air Corps became the Air Force.

The Corps should be autonomous. It should have an equal say in what goes on in the Joint Chiefs. Hell, I bet if they were finally cut loose, maybe they would get some decent equipment for their TOA instead of hand-me-downs!

The Corps does have an equal say in the JCS. The Commandant is one of the Joint Chiefs.

[USNAviator]

The Corps does have an equal say in the JCS. The Commandant is one of the Joint Chiefs.

That is entirely true. But the point I was trying to make was that over the history of JCS, very few times were Marines represented by other than the Commandant. In 2010, The Chairman is USN and the Vice-Chair is USMC. The other four are from their respective branches USA, USN, USMC and USAF. The Commandant obviously represents the Corps

When the JCS was formed in the '40s, there was no representative of the Marines to be found. Admiral King spoke for both the Navy and the Marines. And I'm sure if you go back and look over the history of the JCS, you will find the Corps represented far fewer multiple times than any other branch. And the reason I feel this exists is because the Corps is still part of the Navy

[FattyTheFerret]

Understandable. I would venture that it's because our smaller numbers mean that we have a smaller pool of general officer from which to choose. Could be either one, though.

[Lynn2]

"The Navy has a history of old Navy officers advocating the abollishment of the Marine Corps, for as long as I can remember."


Ken, could you name one or two who advocated this? Because it makes no sense at all.

If the USMC were done away with tomorrow the Army might gain. The AF might gain. The Navy would not.

No one advocates for major portions of their service or organization to be given away to another service or organization.

The Navy would never want to be dependent on the Army when it has its own USMC.

Not a knock but what you said just makes no sense from any organizational standpoint.

[Integrity57]

Why doesn't Rep. Jones spearhead a campaign to get the Corps new rifles or body armor or maybe a little more funding in general? You know, something that actually matters and makes a ****ing difference.

[Rocky C]

This Just In...........

A bigger Navy is a better navy, says the House Armed Services Committee chairman, who believes ship retirements should be delayed and shipbuilding should be boosted because there is value in being able to show the flag in distance waters.

“I am of the opinion that numbers make a difference,” Rep. Ike Skelton, D-Mo., said Tuesday as he met with the Defense Writers Group.

Skelton advocates delaying ship decommissioning whenever possible. “A lot of these ships are really able to carry on for the next three, four or five years,” he said.

He also advocates expanding submarines as missile-firing platforms, including particular interest in building smaller, less costly diesel-powered submarines instead of nuclear subs.

“Missile-carrying submarines may very well become the ship of the future,” Skelton said.

[kenrobg30]

I was stationed in the Anacostia, Naval receiving Station, as an Interior Guard. Seven Marines, among who knows, how many Sailors. Monday through Friday, Marine and Navy Officers came through the doors of the installation. A few of the Naval officers were highly prejudiced, against Marines. Luckily for us, the commanding Officer, and most of the other Naval Officers, were not. I posted the account of my Problem with one of the unfriendly ones. I asked a Navy Commander, who was pulling OD duty one weekend, What that guys problem was. The Commander told us(The Marine guards) that there was a faction in the navy, who preached, disbanding the Marine Corps. Their reasoning was , that the Navy no longer had ships with rigging, for the Marines to fire from, and the money waisted supporting the Marines, could be put to better use, such as building a few new Officers clubs or golf courses. Don't challenge me on this, check with some of the older Marines. I'm sure, I'm not the only one who remembers. :marine: S/F!! Ken

[Lynn2]

OK got it, thanks.

I still do not believe it. I do believe that is what that Navy OD said to you.

I do not believe that senior Naval officers have argued for disbanding the Marine Corps. And when I say argued I mean publications or official memos or decision papers, or speaking to or in front of congress. The things that count.

Not that some Navy officer in some slop shute said after a few beers he hated Marines and the Navy would be better off without them. That I can believe. Sort of like the stuff you read on forums.

The Navy or its senior leadership has never argued that the Marine Corps should be done away with or given to the Army. Certainly not in modern times. Maybe even before.

But if anyone suggests otherwise-----I'd like to see a link or some proof.

[yanacek]

I'm not sure the Navy tried to eliminate the Marine Corps, but the Army has tried in the past. There's a good reference here: http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-20006.html

[jetdawgg]

This is total BS. President Obama asked congress for 706BB DOD bill. HASC passed a 726BB Budget back to the a POTUS. How could this cause so much of a stir that it cannot be implemented?:usmc:

[Lynn2]

I'm not sure the Navy tried to eliminate the Marine Corps, but the Army has tried in the past. There's a good reference here: http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-20006.html


"-After World War II, Army leadership wanted unification, but the Navy and Commandant Vandergrift opposed unification. (pg. 433)."

From the link you posted.

The Navy has always been for having a Marine Corps. To suggest otherwise is just a misunderstanding of history.

[kenrobg30]

Naval, and Marine Corps Officers do not, under ordinary cercomstances, confide in six PFCS, a Buck SGT, and a Navy Firewatch, but we weren't exactly ordinary. We were nine men, locked inside a chainlink fence, from 1700 Friday, until 0800 Monday. In order to keep from being bored to death, We played Poker, drank coffee, and talked. The Officer of the day, was either a Naval Aviator, or a Marine Aviator, all of whom were studying Photo interpretation. I don't think I ever knew, how many of them there were, but we got to know a bunch of them. We , the Marine Guards, Liked the Majority of them, tolerated The minority, and actively disliked just one. He was the one, who ran off at the mouth, at every opportunity, about dis banding the Marine Corps. I have no idea how large that faction was, but those Officers told us, it existed. I had enough bad experiences, with that one Officer, to make me a firm believer. If you want to call those Officers liars, Go ahead. I won't. My last word, on this subject. :marine: S/F!! Ken

[greensideout]

The Marines should have been cut loose from the Navy after WW2, just as the Army Air Corps became the Air Force.

The Corps should be autonomous. It should have an equal say in what goes on in the Joint Chiefs. Hell, I bet if they were finally cut loose, maybe they would get some decent equipment for their TOA instead of hand-me-downs!


I liked the way that we did it on the cheap!

When I was active, the Marine Corps was ran on less money then the Air Force special services, you know round ball---etc.

We took pride in the fact that we did it better with less.

I liked the old chit we got. It had history attached to it and made me feel like a link in that history.

Semper Fi