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USNAviator
05-30-10, 07:22 PM
Was doing research for a course I'll be teaching in the Fall and came across the following. This came from USMC Headquarters, one hell of a Marine! BTW it was General Carlson who introduced the term Gung-Ho into the Corps.

Courtesy of the United States Marine Corps: BRIGADIER GENERAL EVANS FORDYCE CARLSON, USMCR (DECEASED)
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/efcarlson-usmc.jpg
Brigadier General Evans F. Carlson, famed Marine leader of "Carlson's Raiders," was born 26 February 1896, at Sidney, New York. His father was a Congregationalist minister.


His long and colorful military career begin in 1912, when at the age of 16 he left high school and enlisted in the U.S. Army. When he finished his four-year enlistment he was a "top sergeant."


He had served in the Philippines and in Hawaii. He stayed out of uniform less than one year and returned in time for the Mexican punitive expedition.


During World War I he saw action in France, and was awarded the Purple Heart for wounds received in action. He was commissioned a second lieutenant in May, 1917, and made Captain of field artillery in December 1917. He served in Germany with the Army of Occupation.
His spectacular career as a Marine started in 1922 when he enlisted as a private. In 1923 he was commissioned a second lieutenant.


After duty at Quantico, Virginia, he sailed for Culebra, Puerto Rico, in 1924 and remained there five months before being ordered to the West Coast for duty with the Pacific Fleet. Applying for aviation training in 1925, he went to Pensacola, Florida, for instruction, but subsequently returned to duty with ground units. He served another tour of foreign shore duty from 1927 to 1929 at Shanghai, China.


General Carlson was ordered to Nicaragua in 1930 as an officer in the Guardia Nacional. A first lieutenant at the time, he earned his first Navy Cross for leading 12 Marines against 100 bandits. He also was commended for his actions following the earthquake at Managua in 1931, and for performance of duties as Chief of Police in 1932 and 1933.


Returning to the United States in 1933, he was sent almost immediately to Shanghai. Shortly afterward he was transferred to the Marine Detachment, American Legation, Peiping, China, where he served as Adjutant and studied the Chinese language. In 1936 he returned to the United States via Japan. At home he served at Quantico while attending Marine Corps Schools, and studying International Law and Politics at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.


He went back to China for the third time, in 1937, as an official student of the Chinese language and as a military observer with Chinese forces. There he was afforded the opportunity to learn the tactics of the Japanese soldier.


Traveling thousands of miles through the interior of China, often on foot and horseback over the most hazardous terrain, he lived under the primitive conditions of native troops. When he left China in 1938, he was commended by the Commander in Chief of the Asiatic Fleet for his services.


He was so impressed with the danger of Japanese aggression in the Far East that in 1939 he resigned his commission as a captain in order to be free to write and lecture on that subject. When the danger he foresaw neared reality in 1941, he applied to be recommissioned in the Marine Corps and was accepted with the rank of major. A year later he was placed in command of the Second Marine Raider Battalion with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. His leadership of that unit in the raid on Makin Island, 17 August 1942, earned him a Gold Star in lieu of a second Navy Cross. A second Gold Star was awarded him for heroism and distinguished leadership on Guadalcanal in November and December of that year.


Colonel Carlson was ordered back to the United States for medical treatment in the Spring of 1943, and subsequently returned to Tarawa as an observer. In that engagement he was cited for volunteering to carry vital information through enemy fire from an advanced post to division headquarters.


He was wounded during the Saipan operation while attempting to rescue a wounded enlisted man from a front line observation post, and was awarded a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart. Physical disability resulting from the wounds received on Saipan caused the General's retirement on 1 July 1946.He was advanced to the rank of Brigadier General on the retired list at that time for having been specially commended for the performance of duty in actual combat.


On 27 May 1947, the 51-year-old veteran succumbed to a heart illness at Emmanuel Hospital, Portland, Oregon. He had been living in Brightwood, Oregon, since his retirement. He was survived by his wife, Mrs. Peggy Tatum Carlson, and a son by a previous marriage, Evans C. Carlson.


In addition to the Navy Cross with two Gold Stars in lieu of a second and third award, and the Purple Heart with a Gold Star in lieu of a second award, Brigadier General Carlson was awarded the Legion of Merit; Presidential Unit Citation with three Stars; World War I Victory Medal with France Clasp; World War II Victory Medal; China Service Medal; Yangtze Service Medal; Expeditionary Medal; Italian Croix de Guerre; Nicaragua Presidential Order of Merit; Nicaraguan Medal of Distinction; Second Nicaraguan Campaign Medal; Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal with three Bronze Stars; American Campaign Medal; and the American Defense Service Medal.

Rocky C
05-30-10, 07:29 PM
What a Man, What a Marine!!!

Thanks for sharing that Dan.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

USNAviator
05-30-10, 08:03 PM
What a Man, What a Marine!!!

Thanks for sharing that Dan.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

Rocky

I agree!! While getting ready to teach this course to the Keydets at VMI in the Fall, Carlson has always fascinated me. A maverick in the Corps, especially in those days, must have been a rare site

Peace out to you Rocky as you visit Exeter tomorrow :thumbup:

Dan

Komenko
05-30-10, 08:37 PM
surprised he didn't get flag earlier in his career during the war from what you posted about him. that was a great historical find you shared with us!

USNAviator
05-30-10, 08:43 PM
surprised he didn't get flag earlier in his career during the war from what you posted about him. that was a great historical find you shared with us!

My pleasure! May I ask if you or other Marines were taught about Carlson during recruit training? It would help my class prep if I knew how he was viewed by the Corps.

Dan

Komenko
05-31-10, 02:08 AM
My pleasure! May I ask if you or other Marines were taught about Carlson during recruit training? It would help my class prep if I knew how he was viewed by the Corps.

Dan

i don't recall being taught about Carlson. it was mostly the more popular Marines like Chesty, Archie, and Dan!

Juicemang
06-01-10, 05:50 PM
Graduated recruit training in 2004, and I don't recall ever being taught about General Carlson.

Great read though!

USNAviator
06-01-10, 05:54 PM
Graduated recruit training in 2004, and I don't recall ever being taught about General Carlson.

Great read though!

Thanks to both you and Komenko for you input. I somehow got the impression that Gen. Carlson and his Raiders were not particularly welcomed. But he had the juice by having FDR's son Jimmy as his XO

Rocky C
06-01-10, 06:13 PM
Rocky

I agree!! While getting ready to teach this course to the Keydets at VMI in the Fall, Carlson has always fascinated me. A maverick in the Corps, especially in those days, must have been a rare site

Peace out to you Rocky as you visit Exeter tomorrow :thumbup:

Dan

Thank you Dan. I got through it.........
We never learned anything about him in the Corps but later in Life I read ALOT on him.

Great Thread Dan.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

USNAviator
06-01-10, 07:18 PM
Thank you Dan. I got through it.........
We never learned anything about him in the Corps but later in Life I read ALOT on him.

Great Thread Dan.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

Glad you got through it OK. Always a tough weekend

Thanks for your input re. Gen. Carlson. It's amazing how few younger Marines have ever heard of him

Stay well Marine

kenrobg30
06-02-10, 01:08 PM
According to the accounts I've read, about Col. Carlson (I always think of him as 'COLONEL'). He never buttered up the 'Desk Jockeys, or the :Feather Merchants', in the Pentagon, Or anywhere else. He let his actions speak for him, and let the chips fall where they may. So of course, He made a lot of enemies. One of his major faults, (According to the Power hungry) was that He was a close personal friend, to Franklin D Roosevelt, The Commander in chief. When Col. Carlson formed the raiders, it was with the direct approval of FDR. Roosevelts Son, James was Col. Carlsons XO, in the Raiders. Another damned Fine Marine Officer. I would have loved to have been old enough to serve with them. :flag: S/F!!! Ken

BJKpfaller
06-02-10, 01:35 PM
We were taught about Gen Carlson and the raiders in boot camp (Feb.65) we all thought he was a great leader some of his ideas on leadership were not welcomed at the time but he was a fine combat leader and always made sure his mnen were taken care of. One heck of a Marine and someone we were taught to look up to. At the time "Gung-Ho" was pur battle cry. I have no idea when ohhraa came in.
Semper Fi

USNAviator
06-02-10, 02:03 PM
We were taught about Gen Carlson and the raiders in boot camp (Feb.65) we all thought he was a great leader some of his ideas on leadership were not welcomed at the time but he was a fine combat leader and always made sure his mnen were taken care of. One heck of a Marine and someone we were taught to look up to. At the time "Gung-Ho" was pur battle cry. I have no idea when ohhraa came in.
Semper Fi

Thanks for the insight. So it seems that the Corps pretty much stopped teaching about Gen. Carlson sometime in the 70's since several responses I've heard are Marines who when through boot in the mid to late 70's. And none of the younger Marines recall him ever being mentioned

Lynn2
06-03-10, 09:46 AM
With time we can all look better.

I have no doubt that Carlson was seen as a giant pain in the azz when he was on AD and there was much happiness at HQMC when he was gone.

Friend of a President

Friend of a liberal President.

Liberal Presidents son as his XO

Went around the chain of command to get a USMC unit created that the Corps did not want.

The dreaded elite within an elite.

Friend of the Commies.

A different view of enlisted officer relations.

Taking Gung Ho very seriously. Not the buzz word it later became. It meant something else entirely when he used it.

A maverick. Organizations by definition do not want mavericks in their midst. They want company men they can depend on.

A writer and a thinker (not always career enhancing under the best circumstances)

No doubt an interesting man. I am shocked he got his star. Unless that was a FDR thing or a political thing.

Vandrel
06-03-10, 10:05 AM
They don't make em like that anymore

Lynn2
06-03-10, 10:10 AM
They don't make em like that anymore


Actually I have no doubt that they still do.

They just call them USMC Major (retired) or LtCol if they are real lucky.

WXSgt
06-03-10, 12:07 PM
If yall look up a book series by W.E.B Griffin called "The Corps" the first few follow the raiders. overall its historical fiction but very good reading. 10 books in all first one is in china before the war and the start of the war by about the second or third the main character is in the raiders. again historical fiction so it does follow the real events and all but with a fictional character as far as i know

fmoyer
06-03-10, 12:30 PM
He wastaught in boot camp in the late 50's not always as a great man but a great Marine non the less. No on the favorite list of many higher ups.

kenrobg30
06-03-10, 01:30 PM
If yall look up a book series by W.E.B Griffin called "The Corps" the first few follow the raiders. overall its historical fiction but very good reading. 10 books in all first one is in china before the war and the start of the war by about the second or third the main character is in the raiders. again historical fiction so it does follow the real events and all but with a fictional character as far as i know

Gung Ho, WXSgt, I got the impression, from reading Mr. Griffins books, and I mean, almost everything he wrote, that he leans very strongly toward the republican, conservative side. He treated all of his characters fairly, no matter their Political preferences. I know you didn't mention Politics, Sgt. Thank you !! :marine: S/F !!! Ken

fmoyer
06-03-10, 01:36 PM
Would recommend W.E.B. reading he always wrights and speakes very well of the Marines.

USNAviator
06-03-10, 06:05 PM
With time we can all look better.

I have no doubt that Carlson was seen as a giant pain in the azz when he was on AD and there was much happiness at HQMC when he was gone.

Friend of a President

Friend of a liberal President.

Liberal Presidents son as his XO

Went around the chain of command to get a USMC unit created that the Corps did not want.

The dreaded elite within an elite.

Friend of the Commies.

A different view of enlisted officer relations.

Taking Gung Ho very seriously. Not the buzz word it later became. It meant something else entirely when he used it.

A maverick. Organizations by definition do not want mavericks in their midst. They want company men they can depend on.

A writer and a thinker (not always career enhancing under the best circumstances)

No doubt an interesting man. I am shocked he got his star. Unless that was a FDR thing or a political thing.


Doc

You make some valid points. Having Jimmy Roosevelt as your XO certainly didn't hurt his cause as far as his starting the Raiders. And I did read that Raiders themselves were indeed looked upon as an elite, not needed by an all ready elite force.

When Carlson was in China he was an observer of the Third Chinese Root Army. From this group he picked up many of his tactics that would be used in the Raiders

And yes "Gung Ho" has been transformed over the years. It's original "work together in harmony" was adopted by the rest of the Corps after the Makin Raid and of course after the war found it's way into the civilian vernacular. I thinks that's why the Corps stopped using it, it was too "civilian"

Thanks for the input. Always enjoy your views and the great work you did on "The Pacific" thread.

Dan

Lynn2
06-04-10, 08:44 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Once-Legend-Edson-Marine-Raiders/dp/089141732X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2

A bit on topic here. I have not read this yet. It is on my to read list. I have read Hoffmans book "Chesty". It is IMO a very good book. And a serious look at Pullers career and life. You will never be able to look at that Davis infomercial book again in the same light.

Hoffman is a real pro. Good writer, infantry officer, historian.

I'd say the book in the link is a good choice if you are interested in the Raiders.

USNAviator
06-04-10, 08:51 AM
Thank you! I haven't read either book but will order both today.

Lynn2
06-04-10, 09:16 AM
Thank you! I haven't read either book but will order both today.


http://www.amazon.com/Chesty-Story-Lieutenant-General-Puller/dp/037576044X/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

Dan, if I did not have so many books already on my to read list I would start this one all over again.

It may be as good a bio as I have ever read.

If anyone has any real interest in Chesty (the man) as opposed to Chesty (the legend) this is a must read.

Hoffman is a real pro.

USNAviator
06-04-10, 06:36 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Chesty-Story-Lieutenant-General-Puller/dp/037576044X/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

Dan, if I did not have so many books already on my to read list I would start this one all over again.

It may be as good a bio as I have ever read.

If anyone has any real interest in Chesty (the man) as opposed to Chesty (the legend) this is a must read.

Hoffman is a real pro.

Doc

I ordered both of Hoffman's books today "Chesty" and "Iron Mike". Should be here by Tuesday. Thanks once again for the tip

Have you ever read any of Eric Hammels books regarding the Canal?

You might enjoy, very detailed

WXSgt
06-05-10, 03:29 PM
Gung Ho, WXSgt, I got the impression, from reading Mr. Griffins books, and I mean, almost everything he wrote, that he leans very strongly toward the republican, conservative side. He treated all of his characters fairly, no matter their Political preferences. I know you didn't mention Politics, Sgt. Thank you !! :marine: S/F !!! Ken


you know what? I never read into the politics just read it. I just bought the first 3 books in hardbound edition so I'll be rereading it lol. I had the entire series before i left japan a few years ago but had to mail some stuff back to the states and between the mail and my parents i dont know who lost them lol. but i do have extra copies of some of the books if anyone wants them.

kenrobg30
06-06-10, 12:55 PM
you know what? I never read into the politics just read it. I just bought the first 3 books in hardbound edition so I'll be rereading it lol. I had the entire series before i left japan a few years ago but had to mail some stuff back to the states and between the mail and my parents i dont know who lost them lol. but i do have extra copies of some of the books if anyone wants them.

I know that feeling, about rereading. I keep a large low box, under my bed with most of my favorite books in it. Griffin, and ANNE McCAFFREY, Keep it full. I,ve worn out a lot of their books, and still hunger for more. I've read almost every book the those two authors have ever written. It's nice to see another book fanatic on the site. :thumbup: S/F !!! Ken

USNAviator
06-06-10, 01:29 PM
I know that feeling, about rereading. I keep a large low box, under my bed with most of my favorite books in it. Griffin, and ANNE McCAFFREY, Keep it full. I,ve worn out a lot of their books, and still hunger for more. I've read almost every book the those two authors have ever written. It's nice to see another book fanatic on the site. :thumbup: S/F !!! Ken

Ken

I read the whole The Corps series as well. Great read and I'm not much for fiction. I was stationed in Pensacola '78-'79 and I'm trying to recall the name of the old hotel, it was mentioned several times. It's where Pick Pickering and Dick Stegler (sp?) stayed while going through Primary. If you have the time, could you look in the rear of perhaps the last book and tell me the name. I think Griffin mentions it was torn down in the early 2000's

Thanks

Dan

kenrobg30
06-06-10, 01:43 PM
Ken

I read the whole The Corps series as well. Great read and I'm not much for fiction. I was stationed in Pensacola '78-'79 and I'm trying to recall the name of the old hotel, it was mentioned several times. It's where Pick Pickering and Dick Stegler (sp?) stayed while going through Primary. If you have the time, could you look in the rear of perhaps the last book and tell me the name. I think Griffin mentions it was torn down in the early 2000's

Thanks

Dan

Now you've made me dig out book one, Dan. My memory fails me at the most inconvienent times !! Boop one, if the THE CORPS, is right5 here in front of my keyboard., and I'm looking. :) S/F!!! Ken

kenrobg30
06-06-10, 02:28 PM
I found the name, Dan. It was the SAN CARLOS. I had to go to book two, but I made it, now I can relax again. Reading has always been my greatest addiction. Now, with my memory problems, I've started rereading, and re buying, books that I've had for years. Some of them are falling apart, because I've read them so many times, they just fall apart. I've replaced quite a few, by many authors. We need a thread here, for book discussions. Why don't you get one started? I'll be right there, if it happens. All the best, to you, and yours. ;) S/F!!! Ken

USNAviator
06-06-10, 03:16 PM
I found the name, Dan. It was the SAN CARLOS. I had to go to book two, but I made it, now I can relax again. Reading has always been my greatest addiction. Now, with my memory problems, I've started rereading, and re buying, books that I've had for years. Some of them are falling apart, because I've read them so many times, they just fall apart. I've replaced quite a few, by many authors. We need a thread here, for book discussions. Why don't you get one started? I'll be right there, if it happens. All the best, to you, and yours. ;) S/F!!! Ken

Ken

Great job!!!! Thank you, I remembered it had a Spanish name with stained glass windows and was on Navy Blvd just could not remember where. In it's day it was the place to go

Book club discussions is a great idea. I know several Marines here who are voracious readers, including yourself!!

Thanks again Ken :thumbup:

USNAviator
06-06-10, 03:46 PM
I found the name, Dan. It was the SAN CARLOS. I had to go to book two, but I made it, now I can relax again. Reading has always been my greatest addiction. Now, with my memory problems, I've started rereading, and re buying, books that I've had for years. Some of them are falling apart, because I've read them so many times, they just fall apart. I've replaced quite a few, by many authors. We need a thread here, for book discussions. Why don't you get one started? I'll be right there, if it happens. All the best, to you, and yours. ;) S/F!!! Ken

Ken

Thought you might be interested in seeing what the San Carlos looked like. It was torn down in 1993


http://www.emporis.com/img/6/2006/07/474924.jpg

kenrobg30
06-08-10, 03:34 PM
Ken

Thought you might be interested in seeing what the San Carlos looked like. It was torn down in 1993


http://www.emporis.com/img/6/2006/07/474924.jpg Thank you Dan. It's strange, the pictures you develope in your mind, of places , or people you read about. I didn't think the San Carlos was that big, and I pictured it as, more spread out. That was the impression I got, from Griffins books. Thanks again. :) S/F!!! Ken

USNAviator
06-08-10, 03:56 PM
Thank you Dan. It's strange, the pictures you develope in your mind, of places , or people you read about. I didn't think the San Carlos was that big, and I pictured it as, more spread out. That was the impression I got, from Griffins books. Thanks again. :) S/F!!! Ken

I know what you mean. I use to read the comic Peanuts when I was a kid. When they first came out with a cartoon on TV, the Charlie Brown that was speaking wasn't the same Charlie Brown I had in my head. He was a smarmy,whiny little twerp :D

kenrobg30
06-08-10, 04:09 PM
I know what you mean. I use to read the comic Peanuts when I was a kid. When they first came out with a cartoon on TV, the Charlie Brown that was speaking wasn't the same Charlie Brown I had in my head. He was a smarmy,whiny little twerp :D
I love that one!!:banana: S/F!!! Ken