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View Full Version : Questions about Enlisted and Officers Eagle,Globe,Anchor



Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 05:44 PM
I have came across my dads EGA's latley and found that Cuba is on it. I later did more research to find that Officers EGA's lack Cuba. My question is why do Enlisted have Cuba and officers do not?

Thanks in advance!

Rocky C
04-10-10, 05:51 PM
Here you Go.........


There are slight differences between the enlisted and officer's emblem. The enlisted emblem is entirely gold, while the officer's emblem incorporates silver and gold. The officer's emblem is also marginally larger than the enlisted's emblem with the anchor's chain positioned differently than on the enlisted's emblem. Finally, Cuba is not present on the officer's emblem, since commissioned officers emblem is more elaborate and the Cuba piece would not stay affixed

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 05:54 PM
How do you get your information?

Rocky C
04-10-10, 05:58 PM
How do you get your information?

You Posted in the "Ask A Marine Thread".

I'm A United States Marine :flag::thumbup::D

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 06:02 PM
Ok, I have heard the affixed statement before but I have also heard that it was because the Marine Enlisted did some opperations in Cuba and there were no Officers.

Rocky C
04-10-10, 06:17 PM
Ok, I have heard the affixed statement before but I have also heard that it was because the Marine Enlisted did some opperations in Cuba and there were no Officers.

What??? Who said that???

The Marines were NOT in Cuba in 1868 when the Final design was Approved.

Here is some History for you........


Continental Marines wore various uniforms during the American Revolution (1775-1783), without much standardization. Ships' captains or Marine officers in command provided uniforms for enlisted men. One of the most famous pictures of the Revolutionary War was painted by Charles Waterhouse. It depicts American Marines wearing red uniforms, almost identical to those worn by British Royal Marines. Other common depictions of Continental Marines show them wearing a green swallow-tailed coat with white trousers. There were no insignia on these uniforms.

First references to any hat device appear in uniform regulations of 1804, when eagles were initially authorized by Lt. Col. Franklin Warton, Commandant of the Corps. A letter to 1st Lt. Gale dated 6 April 1804 stated, "Pay very early attention to the caps mentioned by the Adjutant, also the die to have the Eagles ready." His order referred to a "brass eagle on a square plate." Wharton's reference to 'eagles' is specific. Therefore, this first device was a separate, cut out eagle. It is the first insignia device of which we have tangible evidence.

This may have been similar to the device worn during the War of 1812; which was an octagonal plate with an eagle, flags, drum and fouled anchor. The army did not introduce cap plates of this type until about 1811. Eagles on army plates, many made by George Armitage of Philadelphia, were essentially identical to Marine plates. These brass cap plates showed an eagle's beak holding a banner which read, 'Fortitudine,' the first motto of the Corps.

Researchers agree U.S.M.C. eagles probably first appeared soon after 1811. Under the eagle's claw on the metal plate was the word, "MARINES." Earliest eagles had a double banner, held in the beak, which read, "SEMPER FIDELIS."

November 1834 uniform regulations prescribed an eagle measuring approximately three to 3-1/2" to be worn on headgear. During the early 1840's this device was changed again to an embroidered gold wreath encircling, "U.S.M." Shortly thereafter an additional device was approved for wear on officers fatigue hats. This was an embroidered wreath around a fouled anchor.

By the time of the American Civil War (1861-1865), a hunting horn with a Germanic letter 'M' (for Marine) replaced earlier devices. Full dress insignia used a hunting horn attached to this U.S. shield with a laurel wreath, mounted separately underneath.

EGA emblems, as we know today, date from 1868 when General Zelin, the 7th Commandant, with the approval of the Secretary of the Navy, decided on a singly distinctive emblem. This new emblem was centered around the globe, using an eagle and foul anchor marine theme. The fouled anchor has been an integral part of the full sized insignia since 1868.

This was derived from British Royal Marine emblems. General Zelin's U.S. Marine Globe displayed the Western hemisphere. Royal Marine emblems used the Eastern hemisphere. Eagles and fouled anchors were added to leave no doubt about the Corps' being both American and maritime. Incidentally, whenever the Corps has been involved in creating other Marine Corps, such as in Korea, China or Vietnam, they have adopted emblems similar to ours.

Despite numerous changes in size, color and design, this device has remained unchanged in concept to the present day. Few original 1868 devices survived. They are known only through drawings or poor photographs.

Officer devices had a metal globe and eagle attached over an embroidered anchor. These were made of stamped bronze or nickel with two wire prongs soldered to the back for attachment to caps. Full dress versions were attached to shields worn on the shako.

Stamped EGAs were worn on enlisted shoulder boards, with dress uniforms, later in the nineteenth century. Early examples of enlisted devices are more common. Gilt brass enlisted fatigue cap EGAs were authorized in 1868. Dress cap EGA devices in 1875. Nickel-plated brass ornaments were worn on shakos from 1875-1892. A gilt brass wire-back cap device was authorized in 1868. This was used on kepi fatigue caps worn from 1859 to 1897. Bell crown undress caps were introduced in 1897. Wire-back gilt devices were then converted to screw-backs.

Perhaps the most interesting version of the insignia was worn on black parade helmets between 1892 and 1904. This device was 5" high and highly stylized. Officers' versions were even more ornate.

The "SEMPER FIDELIS" banner was made obsolete in 1904, due to breakage problems. Bronze service insignia for rolled edge campaign hats were authorized for enlisted ranks in 1908.

"Montana peak" campaign hats were authorized for U.S.M.C. use in 1912. Style changes included adding longitude (east-west) lines to existing latitude lines (north-south). Garrison caps were introduced in WW-I and were adopted as a permanent uniform item.

Regulations of 1920 prescribed gilt finished and bronze screw back ornaments for cap, hat and collars, replacing WW-I collar disks with a standard EGA, without rope.

'Droop-wing' eagles were authorized for officer and enlisted cap, hat and collar devices on 25 May 1925. 'Droop-Winged' eagles were made in 1930 for devices following the official emblem pattern of 1925 by the 13th Commandant, Major GEN. John Lejuene.

U.S.M.C. uniform regulations were further amended in 1936. 'Droop-winged' emblems were changed back to straight wing with approval of these new official emblems. Legend says, "Droop-Wing eagles looked like seagulls, instead of eagles." Longitude lines were also abolished. These changes are still the basic design of today's Marine emblem.

Allowing for cost cutbacks and metal shortages during WW-II, service EGAs were primarily made of bronze, although the Marine Corps experimented with plastic devices. Plastic broke too easily and was soon discontinued.

Another major change to enlisted emblems was in 1955. All new emblems were required to conform to a new and official Marine Corps Seal, approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1954. This change added the fouled anchor to the collar devices for enlisted wear. Officer's collar devices did not add the fouled anchor until 1962. Service insignia were made in a brownish finish to match leather items on uniforms.

The last modification of the ornament, which brought them to present form, began with the publication of MCO 1020.37 of 4 June 1963. This changed the color of service ornaments from brown to black. This order stated, "In the area of uniform clothing, significant economy can be effected through use of black uniform accessories, without loss of utility and with a minimum change in appearance. "This was augmented from a Department of Defense policy, "Achieving maximum economy through standard usage wherever possible." This order further provided for color transition from brown to black uniform accessories such as shoes, socks, service cap frames, gloves and women's handbags

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the useful information, But it still did not tell me about Cuba and the EGA??

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 06:30 PM
Here you Go.........


There are slight differences between the enlisted and officer's emblem. The enlisted emblem is entirely gold, while the officer's emblem incorporates silver and gold. The officer's emblem is also marginally larger than the enlisted's emblem with the anchor's chain positioned differently than on the enlisted's emblem. Finally, Cuba is not present on the officer's emblem, since commissioned officers emblem is more elaborate and the Cuba piece would not stay affixed

Rocky already gave you your answer.

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 06:36 PM
Well i've heard different storys from Retired Staff NCO's and Officers, And thus i was wondering what the truth is.

Rocky C
04-10-10, 06:38 PM
Thanks for the useful information, But it still did not tell me about Cuba and the EGA??

What part did you miss on My Answer to your Question???

Finally, Cuba is not present on the officer's emblem, since commissioned officers emblem is more elaborate and the Cuba piece would not stay affixed

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 06:41 PM
Who am i to believe when i got non rate telling me one thing and a Ret. Officer telling me another, And the Musuem at PI did not know?

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 06:44 PM
Who am i to believe when i got non rate telling me one thing and a Ret. Officer telling me another, And the Musuem at PI did not know?

Are you calling an enlisted Marine a non rate? Every Marine rates, whether they are enlisted or officer.

The letter "I" should always be capitalized, yes it bothers me, and it's Parris Island, not PI.

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 06:49 PM
E-1 to E-3 are Non Rates E-4 -E-5 are NCO's E-6 and above are Staff NCO's and to respond to LCpl Rockys statement on the Cuba on the EGA can be found on Wikipedia and anyone can edit that. Finally, If you don't know know E-1 through E-3 are Non-Rates then you as a PFC did not learn quite to much.

Rocky C
04-10-10, 06:50 PM
Who am i to believe when i got non rate telling me one thing and a Ret. Officer telling me another, And the Musuem at PI did not know?

Did you just call me a Non-Rate???:evilgrin:.
You asked a Question and I gave you the Answer.

There is NO Debate.

It is what it is.

If I don't have the Correct Answer to a Question, I don't answer to it just for the Sake of Posting.

Know now, your gonna take some heat for this exchange.

Handle That!!!

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 06:53 PM
Listen up here young man, we here on Leatherneck DO NOT refer to any Marine here, enlisted or officer, as a non rate. We are all Marines who haved EARNED the Eagle Globe and Anchor, and we RESPECT each others rank. That's what I learned when I was in the Marine Corps.
Now, leave the attitude and the smart mouth comments at the door.

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 06:59 PM
I am not trying to be rude i am simply stateing facts E-1 to E-3 are Non Rates E-4 -E-5 are NCO's E-6 and above are Staff NCO's, Now both of you are clearly out the service upon which you left as a LCpl and WMarine left as a PFC. All i asked was why the Enlisted Marines have Cuba on the EGA when Officers and NCO's do not have this.

Now you did give me information regarding this situation but it was clearly posted word for word from this link --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle,_Globe,_and_Anchor
upon which can be edited by any sorce.

I have read this story before i was just wondering why Ret. Marine Officers tell me different.

Rocky C
04-10-10, 07:02 PM
If you already read it then Why are You Wasting My Time and Effort???

Enjoy your Timeout!!!

Nuff said...............

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 07:05 PM
You, as a wannabe, shouldn't be calling any Marine, regardless of rank, a non rate. If some day you happen to EARN the title, then go for it; but until then, don't come on a Marine site and say that.
You asked a question and an answer was given. End of story.
And what does this have to do with boot camp anyway?

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 07:14 PM
Listen up here young man, we here on Leatherneck DO NOT refer to any Marine here, enlisted or officer, as a non rate. We are all Marines who haved EARNED the Eagle Globe and Anchor, and we RESPECT each others rank. That's what I learned when I was in the Marine Corps.
Now, leave the attitude and the smart mouth comments at the door.


E-1 to E-3 Non Rate
E-4 to E-5 NCO's
E-6 to E-9 Staff NCO's

WO-1 Warrent Officer
CWO-2 - CWO-5 Company Grade Officers

0-1 to 0-3 Company Grade Officers
0-4 to 0-6 Field Grade Officers
0-7 to 0-10 General Officers

Ok, this is information that i learned through my Dad who Retired after 26 years.

If you think i was being disrecpectful then please check this link --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Marine_Corps_acronyms_and_ex pressions (scroll down to the "N" and find Non-Rate)

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 07:15 PM
If you already read it then Why are You Wasting My Time and Effort???

Enjoy your Timeout!!!

Nuff said...............

Those black helos might be coming inbound sometime tonight.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/wmarineluvstaylor/Patriotic/helicoptersmiley.gif?t=1270944915 http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/wmarineluvstaylor/Patriotic/helicoptersmiley.gif?t=1270944915

Zulu 36
04-10-10, 07:18 PM
I am not trying to be rude i am simply stateing facts E-1 to E-3 are Non Rates E-4 -E-5 are NCO's E-6 and above are Staff NCO's, Now both of you are clearly out the service upon which you left as a LCpl and WMarine left as a PFC. All i asked was why the Enlisted Marines have Cuba on the EGA when Officers and NCO's do not have this.

Now you did give me information regarding this situation but it was clearly posted word for word from this link --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle,_Globe,_and_Anchor
upon which can be edited by any sorce.

I have read this story before i was just wondering why Ret. Marine Officers tell me different.

Well, for not trying to be rude you seem to be doing a darned fine job of it.

First, not being a Marine at all, you have no place to call any Marine a non-rate. Whether he/she is what used to be called a "non-rated" Marine, meaning, in the old days, a Marine without any specialty training, such as a ship's gunner, or cook, or quartermaster, or field music, etc, and who was also not an NCO.

In modern terminology, it has taken to mean a Marine of the rank L/Cpl or below regardless of training level. Even Marines don't throw that term around willy-nilly.

However, you are not a Marine of any rank and have no right to address any Marine on this site in any form except as Marine or by their rank, if given.

You got the answer to your question. Why do you care where the wording comes from? That isn't a pass/fail piece of knowledge you need for boot camp anyway.

I don't care if your father was the Commandant, that still doesn't excuse your rudeness. If your father wants to call WMarine and Rhode Island non-rates, that is his business. However, unlike you, your father earned the title. You don't inherit it by birth.

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 07:22 PM
Yah, yah, I already know that stuff.
Like I've already said, the Marines here RESPECT each others rank, whether it's an E-1 to E-9, W-1 toW-5, or O-1 to O-10, and we do not refer to anyone as a non rate.
End of story.

sparkie
04-10-10, 07:24 PM
Find a nice cozy place for that attitude of yours,,,,,, A shady spot where the sun don't shine.

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 07:32 PM
If you already knew this then I would have assumed you would not have gotten mad at this all I ever heard my Dad Refer to the Jr. Marines Of The Ranks E-1 To E-3 was that word. So If my Dad and I have caused this fine group any heart ach from Old Corps Terms We applogise.

Lisa 23
04-10-10, 07:35 PM
Young man, it's time to drop the subject already and move on.

Poolee Minick
04-10-10, 07:36 PM
So when i appoligize u say move on? and i am the one in the wrong??