View Full Version : 3 Mef Liberty Policy Vs Ucmj
Alright, I am bringing up an issue that has been on my mind for quite some time and I wonder everyone's opinion. Sorry it's a long post. <br />
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There is a policy right now in the 3 MEF A/O for Marines...
wargrudge
03-25-10, 06:10 AM
Fill out your profile.:evilgrin:
Garyius
03-25-10, 07:05 AM
I think you are right. I also think the only thing that will stop this is a congressional inquiry. And most of the congressmen are busy having the vapors over the gay stuff right now.
I also think that if you are the one who writes your congressman over this illegal punishment, you will be the one punished.
You will get sent to a ship to do navy mess duty for 60 days, then to Korea to clean out buildings without a mask. If you don't get sick there then TDY to afg to walk in front of convoys until your legs get blown off.
Never forget you are dealing with an officer class that started under clinton, grew up under bush jr and 'all reports must be lies, damn the troops lives' rummie, and now have gotten their stars or are about to under obama. They will think nothing of crippling or killing you as an example to those who question their criminal actions.
As my 1st Sgt once told me "liberty is a privelege, not a right"......
Marine84
03-25-10, 07:57 AM
Can we move this one to the Hooch PLEASE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! But only after PDQS (does that stand for Pretty Damned Quick Seperation?) fills out more of that profile.
I'm glad everyone is taking the time to give good insight into the matter.... :thumbdown
TinDragon
03-25-10, 08:29 AM
I think it's in place for a good reason. You have to remember, messing up over here doesn't just affect other Marines, it causes international incidents. It's especially bad at this point in time, as every mistake we make means less Marines get to stay on Okinawa instead of being stationed in Guam. It sucks that some people who shouldn't get screwed by it do get screwed, but ****e happens.
HOWARDROARK3043
03-25-10, 09:17 AM
here is a idea,,,dont screw up,,,,,hmmm.... Marines are over there that dont get in trouble and the liberty policy is fine,,,,,,,its the weirdos that screw up and then cry to their mother YOU JOINED THE MARINES,,,,NOT THE GIRL SCOUTS ,,,TAKE OFF YOUR SKIRT PUT ON THE CAMMIES AND LETS GO.....im sick up boots crying about stuff,,,just forget the Marine Corps and just play modern warfare two at best buy and tell people at one time you were in the Marines. sorry,,, i have not chewed anybody out in a few days,,,,
I got in trouble in Okinawa back in 2007. It was out in town, involving a honcho. I got yelled at by my Master GunnerySergeant, something like "IN THE MORNING, PRESIDENT BUSH WILL BE BRIEFED ON THIS. THAT A UNITED STATES MARINE WAS INVOLVED IN AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT! THE PRESIDENT WILL KNOW ABOUT YOU!" Was it a big deal? No. Did it mess up the SOFA? No. I paid the cab driver, got an NJP, and everything was fine. Their were no picketing outside of any gates or anything. Some people just like to blow things out of wack. If you get in trouble, do the punishment, move on. Stop complaining. Do unfair things happen? Yes, all the time.
temarti
03-25-10, 11:01 AM
There is and always has been a spotlight on Okinawa, it only takes once major incident to drop enforcement on everyone. Especially in the political climate that is current for the region.
There is a major difference in being stationed in the military abroad than there is being an expatriot with a passport and visa working in that country. I have lived a few years a piece on both sides in Okinawa and Japan. The difference is night and day. With a private company they could care less what you do after work as well as the Japanese. If you get into an "incident" it will not make any headlines or your employer will not know.
Now with the military, all the focus is on you, how do you act in town, what laws are being broke, is the perception that all act this way. I lived on the private side in downtown Tokyo, when we would go out to Shibuya or Ropponggi we would just scratch our heads and say "damn" were we that stupid.
So basically, a Congressional is not going to fix it, the rights of the CO have been passed from above in order to limit the liabilities of another incident occuring. The last thing a Command would want is for a Marine that should have been restricted out in town creating a problem, the media would go nuts over that.
haebyungdae
03-25-10, 11:16 AM
Agreed, one persons F-up is everybody's F-up when stationed overseas. With that said, programs like these should be carefully implemented with appropriate oversight conducted by company and battalion commanders, if not higher. If that's not being done then that could be a big problem, with incidents like what was explained above or just random NCOs restricting Marines because they don't like them/they want to F around with them (thats what I would think would be a big problem). I would think that for cases like listed in the first post, Marines put into those positions should remember that they have a chain of command they can go to and air out any grievances. If the COC doesn't work then that Marine can always request mast, but they had be pretty dang sure that they are in the right.
If someone gets into trouble, especially overseas like Okinawa, and were involved/the reason then boo frickity hoo, maybe they shouldn't have F'd-up and they probably deserve the extra punishment. And because they already F'd-up, while waiting for NJP they ARE a risk and after NJP should still be considered A RISK. After serving restriction for an NJP their attitude should be reevaluated, but if there is no perceivable change the commander should be allowed every right to treat them as a continued risk to the very touchy relationships we have with our host nation officials/neighbors.
I'm in Korea and curfew is gay as sht and I wish I didn't have one, especially as a Sgt, and it gets annoying as sht to be treated like some noob that knows nothing about being overseas, despite knowing the culture and language just as good as any Korean. But then I go out into town and see people acting like morons, getting into fights, and treating the host nation people like sht...and you start understand that things are the way the are for a reason.
Liberty cards. I think they still have them or have them again. You get caught shoplifting at the PX or trying to stiff a cab driver or some other dumb stuff then your liberty card is confiscated. Pay the piper if you are a dumbass. People lacking liberty cards are often the first candidates for crap duty like chipping paint on ship or police calling the parking lot. If a dim wit breaks clearly defined rules then take away his liberty. It is not restriction. You don't have to sign in with the duty every two hours in uinform. You just have proven that you are a liberty risk. Most of them do not ever face article 15 and it is not a bad mark. Could be a lot worse if you get put on **** and punk for 6 months for being an idiot.
I would say more but this is not in the hooch.
temarti
03-25-10, 11:54 AM
But then I go out into town and see people acting like morons, getting into fights, and treating the host nation people like sht...and you start understand that things are the way the are for a reason.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________
There is no need to read into the "whys", this sums it up.
I had someone who worked for me once say "Ill take the hit for it" What they do not realize its not up to them. If a CO or an NCO has multiple people under their command screwing up .THEY are also in deep ****. If one of my people get caught doing stupid **** -I am taking the first ass chewing.
I type sh it and get**** but ass is OK ?
Well, I can't say I expected much different responses. I wish most of you devils would read the whole thing, though. Clearly some didn't. People who break rules agreed to punishments that would be applied to those rules when they signed. The officer corps in our AO is overstepping that lawful agreement and running rampant with the punishments and getting away with it because of some of the reasons you listed. I could give a f* about enlisted Marines taking care of enlisted Marines without the command coming down. But there are restrictions in the "law of the land" (Military Law, UCMJ - which trumps all) that prohibit COs from doing this kind of thing for a reason. As for me being on Liberty Risk, I am not. I was on Liberty Risk well over a year ago. I'm getting ready to EAS and I am wondering if I should try and be a martyr on the way out.