All Faith Lost in the Army...1st Sikh Officer

[polizei]

WOW, don't know what else to say. I hope to GOD this never flys in the Corps.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_army_sikh_soldier

[polizei]

Too late to edit...I want to throw out that I'm not against the religion in anyway! Just the fact that he doesn't have to shave and can wear that "thing" on his head...just amazing. Nothing against the religion or him personally!

[yellowwing]

At least he's not gay! :banana:

[Garyius]

Yep, the Corps is going full speed with muslim prayer rooms, the army had muslims working at gitmo who give up intel, the army had muslim officer doctors who openly slam troops to get them in trouble and then murder troops.

This is just another attempt to let 'others' in the military. Once in they will form groups and keep dragging America down.

The British had nothing but trouble with Indian officers. English Officers in the British Indian Army had be be paid A LOT more than British Army Officers to keep them a little honest. Indian race Officers in the same Army were paid a fortune compared to the private sector to keep them slightly honest, and for the most part they were restricted to company grade ranks.

Allowing an Indian racial culture in the US Army O ranks will lead straight to corruption like we have never seen before.

[yellowwing]

But it still took all this time for those kick ass ghurka's Veterans of Her Queen's Service to get more rights.

[Komenko]

for most of you vets who were in before 1984, they were in the Army when you served! the US had them in service since World War 1 and then made a policy that has effectively prevented Sikhs from enlisting since 1984. read up on the history! I don't see anything wrong with it!

[GSEMarine94]

Too late to edit...I want to throw out that I'm not against the religion in anyway! Just the fact that he doesn't have to shave and can wear that "thing" on his head...just amazing. Nothing against the religion or him personally!
Alright I'll bite, if you don't have a probelm with the religion.....
- Did you have a problem with the Navy allowing sailors to grow beards? That policy wasn't changed until the 80's.
- Why would you have a problem with his head gear, all soldiers must wear headgear. It even states in the article that he is able to wear a kevlar over his turbine.

BTW this should be in the Hooch.

[BR34]

Okay, he's serving his country and being allowed to remain faithful to his religion at the same time. Good for him.

[polizei]

Alright I'll bite, if you don't have a probelm with the religion.....
- Did you have a problem with the Navy allowing sailors to grow beards? That policy wasn't changed until the 80's.
- Why would you have a problem with his head gear, all soldiers must wear headgear. It even states in the article that he is able to wear a kevlar over his turbine.

BTW this should be in the Hooch.

I wasn't aware of the Navy situation. And I'm not against the religion, I'm against the fact that he can wear his little turbine and grow a full beard, where no one else can. This irritates me because the military is suppose to be about unity, that's why we Marines only have "US MARINES," rank, and last name on our cammies. We are the same...which is the way it should be.

I just don't understand how someone gets a "pass" on this.

[GSEMarine94]

I wasn't aware of the Navy situation. And I'm not against the religion, I'm against the fact that he can wear his little turbine and grow a full beard, where no one else can. This irritates me because the military is suppose to be about unity, that's why we Marines only have "US MARINES," rank, and last name on our cammies. We are the same...which is the way it should be.

I just don't understand how someone gets a "pass" on this.

That's why this guy is in the Army, they tend to be way less stringent (sp). A little insight, this guy is what is called a direct commission officer. He went through a 5-6 week course on military courtesy and history and they gave him CPT bars, that's right he was automatically made a CPT because he is a dentist. These DC officers are the worst, they are given rank just because of their schooling, some Dr's walk in as 0-5's, yet have no idea what being in the military is really all about.
A qiuck story, a couple of weeks ago I was the OIC for a ROTC field exercise. They had a DC CPT providing medical support. One morning me and my NCOIC were walking to the talk with our medic when he passed us and saluted me. I stopped and asked my E-7 "Did he just salute me?" So I turned around and walked up to him, he immediately came to attention as if I outranked him, I then asked him why he had saluted me. His answer, "To show you the proper respect." I then informed him that he outranked me, and that we were in the field and saluting was a no-no.

[Silentwarrior17]

Complete and utter BULLSH*T! This is one of the many, many, reasons what is wrong with our military right now. Give me a fvcking break. The mans a dentist, good for him. Practice your teeth sh*t in the civi world with the beard and rag on your head. You want to be an officer?, then shave your fvcking face, take off the diaper and become an officer. I know a decient amount of Muslim's in the military that shave and don't wear that and still practice. Great guys and good at thier job. Why in the hell is this guy any different? I'm going to start a religion that I pray to Babe Ruth and say that all I can do is wear my baseball cap, carry a bat, and wear baseball cleats all the time. Should pass Army regs because it's my religion. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

[Garyius]

A qiuck story, a couple of weeks ago I was the OIC for a ROTC field exercise. They had a DC CPT providing medical support. One morning me and my NCOIC were walking to the talk with our medic when he passed us and saluted me. I stopped and asked my E-7 "Did he just salute me?" So I turned around and walked up to him, he immediately came to attention as if I outranked him, I then asked him why he had saluted me. His answer, "To show you the proper respect." I then informed him that he outranked me, and that we were in the field and saluting was a no-no.

He was taught to do that. The training staff at the direct commission courses require the new officers to salute them, even through in many cases the students outrank the instructor.
(Actually, 75% of the students have been officers for years. Under some programs the student commissions as an O-1 when they start their medical/dental/PhD course, then jump to O-3 when they get the degree. They just don't go to a military course for years)
Blame the training staff, not the student.

[BR34]

I know a decient amount of Muslim's in the military that shave and don't wear that and still practice. Great guys and good at thier job. Why in the hell is this guy any different?

Umm, maybe cause he ain't muslim?

[Supersquishy]

Anyone here wear a Yarmulke in uniform? What gives this guy the right if he volunteered some of his rights away just like you and I did when we signed the dotted line to serve our country!

[GSEMarine94]

He was taught to do that. The training staff at the direct commission courses require the new officers to salute them, even through in many cases the students outrank the instructor.
(Actually, 75% of the students have been officers for years. Under some programs the student commissions as an O-1 when they start their medical/dental/PhD course, then jump to O-3 when they get the degree. They just don't go to a military course for years)
Blame the training staff, not the student.
OH I do blame the training, not the staff but the requiremnets for DC officers. I kind of understand the advanced rank thing (as a way to entice Dr.'s, nurses, etc who couldn't afford their school loans on 0-1 makes) But I don't agree with them not having to complete a tougher commissioning source, instead of the summer camp they currently attend.

[buggoffextco]

The Army is the Army, they can do whatever they choose to do to fill the ranks in the Med Field, it's not like there are enough Dr's and nurses. The Sikh's are historically, fierce fighters and for the most part, loyal people. I would hope you aren't lumping them in with some of the Muslim sects out there as they are completely different belief systems.

[polizei]

I had no idea of the DC officer course....does the Marine Corps have that as well? That seems like a good incentive to get people to join, especially with higher levels of education, though I have to say, that seems utterly STUPID at the same time. I don't understand how someone can hold the rank of an O-5, yet an O-1 that just got commissioned probably knows more than him. I feel sorry for the people he leads...I bet there are Privates who know more than him. I guess it's a good thing they are in the medical/dental field...are they "allowed" in regular MOS' as well? I surely think that would be a disaster to the enlisted men.

[GSEMarine94]

I don't know if the Marines have DC appointments or not. I believe they did at one time but it was limited to JAG. As far as the Army DC is very limited, basically if isn't medical, or legal then you can't be commissioned without going the ROTC/OCS route.

[Garyius]

I had no idea of the DC officer course....does the Marine Corps have that as well? That seems like a good incentive to get people to join, especially with higher levels of education, though I have to say, that seems utterly STUPID at the same time. I don't understand how someone can hold the rank of an O-5, yet an O-1 that just got commissioned probably knows more than him. I feel sorry for the people he leads...I bet there are Privates who know more than him. I guess it's a good thing they are in the medical/dental field...are they "allowed" in regular MOS' as well? I surely think that would be a disaster to the enlisted men.

I do not think the Corps has that program. Their only professionals are lawyers, who come in as O-2s, but still have to attend OCS and TBS and are line officers (lawyers in the Corps are allowed to command units). The engineers come in as O-1s same as the rest and try to get their masters while on duty.

The other services do it to get professionals in. I have heard of some doctors getting O-5 as a direct commission, they are guys who have gone all the way through--medical school, residency, and fellowship, many of them board cert--and then they join up.

It does make sense, you want a professional doctor who is fully able to practice good medicine and he really only needs to know how to salute and some chain of command stuff, so why bust his hump with a bunch of hard core grunt stuff that he will never use. It makes more sense to run him through a class on wearing a uniform and what orders are and how to PCS, and then get him out taking care of patients.

The doctors you see working with the battalions/squadrons and regiments in the Corps are not not fully qualified. Most of them joined the navy as O-1s for medical school, the military picked up medical school, they got O-3 as soon as they graduated, the military sends them to the 1st year residency (what the public still calls the intern year), and then they are sent to the units. They are better than most nurses and most of the IDCs, but they can't do anything in the civilian world of medicane because they are not trained enough.

The military dangles a residency on active duty over their heads as a prize to make it a career, but most of them quit as soon as their obligated service is up and they go to a civilian training program to finish up.

[GSEMarine94]

The other services do it to get professionals in. I have heard of some doctors getting O-5 as a direct commission, they are guys who have gone all the way through--medical school, residency, and fellowship, many of them board cert--and then they join up.


This is a little misleading, to be DC in the Army you must be licensed, either as a Dr. RN, etc.Also not all professionals are allowed to be DC, I am an Engineering officer with two degrees both of them professional, yet had to attend OCS.

[Zulu 36]

But it still took all this time for those kick ass ghurka's Veterans of Her Queen's Service to get more rights.


It is a crying shame it took so long for them. I've met Ghurka's and they were great folks and damned good soldiers.

[Integrity57]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGbQBl8KlCo

[hrscowboy]

damn lance Cpl if this crabs your pants in a wade wonder what you would do if you saw the army leave there dead... trust me i seen it in vietnam..

[polizei]

I've heard many stories about that...whatever, it's the army. As long as the Marine Corps doesn't adopt the "great ideas."

[brian0351]

I wasn't aware of the Navy situation. And I'm not against the religion, I'm against the fact that he can wear his little turbine and grow a full beard, where no one else can. This irritates me because the military is suppose to be about unity, that's why we Marines only have "US MARINES," rank, and last name on our cammies. We are the same...which is the way it should be.

I just don't understand how someone gets a "pass" on this.


Women look different from men in uniform, yet we let them serve next to us with their longer hair and boobs.

No-one else can grow a beard? What about all those guys who have no-shave chits?

Oh...that's different because they have a medical reason to keep them from shaving?

This guy has a religious reason to not shave...so what's the difference?

[ARTYPIG]

This is complete and utter BS! The complain about tatoos and other things that are meaningless yet this turd gets to do it because of his faith?? Why not let the Jewish folks wear their yamikas instead of a cover? In my opinion the only thing this turd is good for is to punch the bore of a 155mm howitzer!

[Zulu 36]

The Sikh religious requirement for men to wear beards and turbans is not new. It has been around since the beginning of Sikhism. Sikhs in the Indian and British military wear beards and turbans (as...

[Beltayn]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the standard regulation of clean-shaven military men in existence purely for hygienic reasons and to ensure a proper seal of the gas mask, and was implemented following the chemical warfare of WW1?

At any rate, the guy is a Dentist. Whats the big deal?

[Vandrel]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20100323/capt.93e4d30693a5455e95e3cc993a0dbf2f-93e4d30693a5455e95e3cc993a0dbf2f-0.jpg?x=213&y=299&xc=1&yc=1&wc=291&hc=408&q=85&sig=lHR9rFviQNFhTeSNiDHEfg--

WTF

How does that ****er pass the gas chamber???! Nothing but attention, I bet he never wore that stuff until he got a bug up his ass to get into the spot light and special treatment. So stupid.

But as already mentioned, at least he's not gay... or is he? 90% of rag heads I met on deployment were fudge packers

[Vandrel]

Everyone who doesn't want to shave anymore and wants to wear some crazy headgear should just claim they changed their religion to Sikh


- Why would you have a problem with his head gear, all soldiers must wear headgear. It even states in the article that he is able to wear a kevlar over his turbine.


I REALLY want to see that :D

Seeing women wear large hair setups with a Kevlar is funny enough

[echo3oscar1833]

Ya know what the best part of this thread is, I'm laughing my butt off. Other than that, whatever its the Army!!:D

[polizei]

Seeing women wear large hair setups with a Kevlar is funny enough

LOL, there was one girl in MCT with me that had to wear the kevlar BACKWARDS WITH the cover inside because it wouldn't fit over her bun. :banana:

[Zulu 36]

This is complete and utter BS! The complain about tatoos and other things that are meaningless yet this turd gets to do it because of his faith?? Why not let the Jewish folks wear their yamikas instead of a cover? In my opinion the only thing this turd is good for is to punch the bore of a 155mm howitzer!


I did attend the wedding once of a Jewish Marine friend and I wore a yarmulke while wearing Alphas (I was asked to wear it only during the service - it was OK to take it off for the reception). I didn't see the problem as I was indoors and it was black, so it blended OK with the uniform, and it was temporary. The other Marines attending did the same. The groom wore a tuxedo to avoid the uniform issue as he was Jewish and expected to wear it all night.

[Garyius]

This is a little misleading, to be DC in the Army you must be licensed, either as a Dr. RN, etc.Also not all professionals are allowed to be DC, I am an Engineering officer with two degrees both of them professional, yet had to attend OCS.

My mistake, Navy and guard DCs guys with their PE licenses.

[kfisbusy]

:evilgrin:I know that we had to shave every day and the ones that could not do to med. reasons were med. discharged out. So like you said its the Army. Hay I also saw the army leave their men behind...

[hrscowboy]

You will never see The Marine Corps leave there dead , that i can promise you..

[Eric Hood]

Do you think any one in the Army actually noticed? They are wearing different hats every week-ball caps, utility covers and berets. What's next--beenies?

[GSEMarine94]

My mistake, Navy and guard DCs guys with their PE licenses.
?? I'm in the Guard, might be a state thing as my state will not DC guys with their PE. But it wouldn't matter as I have an engineering degree but am only licensed as an architect (AIA).

[GSEMarine94]

Do you think any one in the Army actually noticed? They are wearing different hats every week-ball caps, utility covers and berets. What's next--beenies?
The Army does issue beenies for the cold weather PT gear, I'd have to check but I do think it can be worn if the base command allows.

Edit: I meant to say that the beenie may be worn with the ACU uniform if the base commander allows it.

[CH53MetalMan]

Apparently in some Military units, uniformity & cohesion are not fundamentally important.

Back in the late 1970's, and early 1980's, when I served, I liked the many different Airforce squadron ball caps they wore in uniform.

[irizavrima]

I don't see what the issue is! Long hair doesn't make you a bad warrior...Don't fall into this trend of believing that shaving and a fresh haircut suddenly grants you powers.

[RYDERKUR]

?? I'm in the Guard, might be a state thing as my state will not DC guys with their PE. But it wouldn't matter as I have an engineering degree but am only licensed as an architect (AIA).

F those AIA Contracts. Indemnifies the architect to high heaven but leaves the contractor's ass to the wind. But seriously, the A201 and such are interesting. I'm looking at it from a construction managers perspective. I will be graduating soon and all through school, the professors make it out to seem like the architect has it out for the contractor and vise versa, and then we have an AIA architect teaching our Construction Contracts and Documents class and everything he says it opposite. Oh, such are the ways of life. :yes: :usmc:

[Vandrel]

I don't see what the issue is!



GAS GAS GAS!!!!!


oh ****..... i'm ****ed

[GSEMarine94]

F those AIA Contracts. Indemnifies the architect to high heaven but leaves the contractor's ass to the wind. But seriously, the A201 and such are interesting. I'm looking at it from a construction managers perspective. I will be graduating soon and all through school, the professors make it out to seem like the architect has it out for the contractor and vise versa, and then we have an AIA architect teaching our Construction Contracts and Documents class and everything he says it opposite. Oh, such are the ways of life. :yes: :usmc:
The main thing to remember when dealing with contracts is that they are all written by lawyers. :mad:

[Zulu 36]

The main thing to remember when dealing with contracts is that they are all written by lawyers. :mad:

For the benefit of other lawyers.

[benw2200]

GAS GAS GAS!!!!!


oh ****..... i'm ****ed

Negative. I thought the same thing, but according to the article he was apparently able to create a satisfactory seal with his gas mask. Hooah?

[Vandrel]

^ I'd beg to differ on that one, I'm sure he was given a "waiver" in the long run.


Come to think of it, if I was a American Indian I'd raise hell that they should allow me to wear long hair and war paint since this guy can have a beard and a towel hat.

[Nate catlett]

I dont see how they can let him get away with that. The whole purpose of a clean shave is so you can get a proper seal on your gas mask, and of course military appearance. I dont agree that he should wear the towel, but I guess a cover is a cover. What ever happened to uniformity.

[benw2200]

I dont see how they can let him get away with that. The whole purpose of a clean shave is so you can get a proper seal on your gas mask, and of course military appearance. I dont agree that he should wear the towel, but I guess a cover is a cover. What ever happened to uniformity.

Yep. I'm all about freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc.. its what this country is founded on. But its the military! The military does not change for you, you change for the military. If your religion says you can't shave or take a turban off your head.. good to go, but the military is not your calling.

What if I'm a devout Rasta, can I wear dreads in uniform?

[Vandrel]

What if I'm a devout Rasta, can I wear dreads in uniform?

Fair is fair