First-Term Lat Move and Career Advice

[Beltayn]

I'm a newly registered member so I hope I'm putting this in the appropriate forum.

I am a first term Marine who is looking for some information and advice for my career planning so that I can go in to see my CRS as informed and prepared as possible.

Specifically, I am hoping for some clarification regarding the First-Term Lateral Move policy as it relates to my particular situation, some guidance from more experienced Marines for lack of a suitable mentor within my section, and help in establishing a clear plan of action for myself to reach my goals.

Background-
I enlisted into the Marine Corps in Jan. 2008 with the desire to be a 0231 Intelligence Analyst. I was told at the time that getting a contract as a 0231 would be impossible and was talked into enlisting as a 2671 Cryptological Linguist instead, and was assured that it was "the same thing". My scores qualified me for basically anything (145 GT, 131 on the DLAB).
I attended MOS training at DLI, POS Monterey, CA starting in May/June '08 and was assigned to learn Pashto (the language of the primary ethnic group of Afghanistan). I discovered to my dismay that the 2671 MOS was nothing like what I had been led to believe, and the school consisted of over a year and a half of a intense academic environment even worse than the college environment I had hated and specifically joined the Marine Corps to escape.
Prior to starting language training, we were given a brief period (a week or two) of classes actually relating to the Intelligence Analyst-type work that I actually wanted to do and greatly enjoyed. Things like being given a hostile country and forces operating within it to analyze and follow up by giving comprehensive briefings about it. We were given a couple projects of this type during that brief period where I excelled and distinguished myself far beyond the rest of my class, but I was then brought to discover that this was not the kind of work done by a 2671, nor would it be what I would be doing for the next year and a half at the school.
In the following months, I attended classes in Pashto language taught by native speakers, and hated every second of it from the outset. I couldn't get my mind around the work, and found myself falling farther and farther behind despite my best honest efforts. I did everything I could, from extra study sessions, listening to tapes, seeing a councilor in the school house, and living, breathing, and dreaming pashto. But I just couldn't process it. Meanwhile I struggled with the adjustment of settling into the military lifestyle. I felt like a sh*tbag, and it was depressing to feel myself slipping behind my peers despite my work, while knowing that I was trying to do something that I didn't really have an aptitude for.

Long story short about six months into my language training I had finally fell so far behind that I no longer even knew what was going on in class any more, and made the poor decision to relieve my anger and frustration by going UA from class for a couple days.
The resulting NJP was a horrible experience, but also the single best thing that ever happened to me professionally, since it made me grow up in a hurry and turned me into the squared away Marine I am now, carrying that lesson and that motivation forward.

The end result was that I was reclassed as a 3381 Food Service Specialist, and have faithfully done my duty in that MOS since the end of 2008.

I have been at my current duty station of MCAS Cherry Point for over a year now, and though I have no love for the work I have distinguished myself and been recognized by my chain of command for my hard work and proficiency.

Goals-
I understand that it is likely that I will have to continue to wait in some respect to get where I have been trying to be my entire Marine Corps career, but I am trying to be proactive so that I know exactly what I need to do to earn a place in the job field I actually wanted to be in from the very start.
I have read all the source material I can find regarding First Term Lat Moves, but I am not sure how the system applies to my current situation, given that:
-while I have been in the Corps for over two years, I have only been at my current duty station for one year
-I was reclassed to my current MOS punitively
-I enlisted on a 5-year contract, putting my EAS in Jan, 2013

My goal is to continue my professional development and work towards advancement in rank in my current situation while being able to establish a clear timeline for myself on the steps I need to take to earn a lat move into the 0231 field.
Additionally, I want to pursue service as an MSG if that option is available to me at some point.


Conclusion-
I understand that much of what I am relating here is probably best suited directly for either a mentor or my CRS, however I am posting here because any additional input can do nothing but help me and knowledge is power.
I have gone in to see my CRS twice before, but felt brushed off. I know for a fact that they didn't even look at my file.
I want to be able to go in the next time I see my CRS with as much information at my disposal as possible, so that I can be clear and direct with what I am trying to get done, and have the background knowledge to be able to discuss my situation intelligently and not let myself be brushed off.

I appreciate any advice that any of you can share with me, and I thank you for taking the time to read this.

Semper Fi.

[TJR1070]

Unfortunately I don't think you are going to get anywhere with a lat move request given the particular's of your situation. However that being said, anything is possible. I honestly think you will probably have to wait until the end of your current enlistment (or at least a year or less before EAS) to be taken seriously for a lat move. You're best bet is to probably try for MSG or another B billet when you are able to (depending on time in service and rank) or try for a base assignment like guard or MWR to get out of what you are doing now. Just remember that any future disciplinary problems will only lengthen the process and probably make you more miserable in your daily life. I know from my time in that monitor's are usually around for a while so annoying them might not be your best option either. I don't know if this helps but I think if you stay on path and have some patience that it might be possible in the not too distant future. Good Luck and I hope everything works out for you.

[CplMotivate]

My best piece of advice for you is to get EAS. The chances of you seeing Staff are pretty slim after an NJP and anything past E-6 is like hoping to catch a leprachaun even though you have a wooden leg. That's just my opinion though.

[Marine Shu]

I don't think that just because he has 1 NJP that it's fair to say he will never pick up Staff. That is not true at all. Anyway, that wasn't what he was asking. As far as the lat-move, you can go in to see the CRS, but I don't think you will get a different response. I assume you fall under H&HS at Cherry Point, which means I know your CRS. While she is excellent, she is also very busy, and I have had the same reaction when I went in trying to get a head start on my reenlistment package. My EAS is March 2011, which means I have to wait until October to reenlist. I went in there In January, just to let her know who I am and what I want, and she told me bluntly that there is nothing that can be even considered until April at the earliest. I understand that you want to know what your options are so you can have a solid plan. I do too. But I guess there are just certain times that stuff like that are available, and it seems like it's too early to do anything at all. Your best bet is to let her know what it is you want to do, and ask her when those options will be available to you.

[Beltayn]

Thanks for all the feedback.
It seems like the best (only) option I really have is to just keep sticking it out until I can pick up CPL and establish a little bit more credibility for myself on paper. Assuming I maintain my general proficiency and PFT/rifle scores, and the cutting score for my MOS remains approximately where it is now, I should be on track to earn my Blood Stripe before the end of this year.

I figure, being able to go in with:
-a record of fast advancement in rank (or even a meritorious board ^^)
-consistent high pro/cons
-professional development and self-education credit from my own initiative
-and awards and recognition within my current MOS
would go a long way towards demonstrating that helping me reach my goals wouldnt be a waste of time.

One of the things I have going for me is that I already have a fully verified Top Secret clearance (yes, I'm a cook with a Top Secret clearance! lol).
What I hope is that this will aid me in pursuing either the lat move into the 0200 field, or in the short term MSG duty, both of which require that level of clearance. The USMC has already made that $200,000 investment in me to get me that clearance, and why waste it on a cook?

At any rate, the best thing I feel I can do is just try to maintain a positive, optimistic attitude, and to not let a rough start to my Marine Corps career drag me down. My NJP made things harder for me, and it set me back some time, but it's not insurmountable if I work hard.

I went ahead and did some more research into MSG prerequisites, and found MARADMIN 0459/09 (http://www.usmc.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN0459-09.aspx). From what I am able to discern, I should be qualified once I hit the "18 months on station" mark (assuming I understood that requirement correctly to mean "have been at present duty station for at least 18 months").

[Supersquishy]

Keep on doing what your supposed to do. Oportunities WILL pop up further down the road. 1 NJP is not going to end your options, especially if you keep getting good pros and cons, 1st clas PFTs, good rifle range scores and good cookies. Keep doing your research and talk to people in the know. You may have to wait it out a few more years. Good Luck and Semper Fi!

[Rocky C]

WOW!!!
That Read like a Resume to me.

Good Luck.
Semper Fi,
Rocky

[Rocky C]

I just looked at your profile.
Rhode Island???
Nice!!!

You lived in North Kingston and didn't go to U.R.I???
Alot of Party College Chicks there!!!

Semper Fi,
Rocky

[Beltayn]

WOW!!!
That Read like a Resume to me.

Good Luck.
Semper Fi,
Rocky

I'll take that as a complement.
Thanks! And shout out to a fellow Rhode Islander.

[Rocky C]

I'll take that as a complement.
Thanks! And shout out to a fellow Rhode Islander.

That was well thought out and Well Written:thumbup:.
Fellow Rhode Islander??? I am Rhode Island :D.
Semper Fi,
Godfuddah Rocky

PS, you owe me any Money???:banana:

[Beltayn]

You lived in North Kingston and didn't go to U.R.I???
Alot of Party College Chicks there!!!
As I mentioned in the op, I hated academia with a passion. I'm a smart kid, but was at that time a very disorganized student. I took some classes as CCRI for a couple years after high school, but felt like I was lost and drifting. Most of my friends went to URI or one of the schools in Boston, so I spent the majority of my time bouncing between those two places. There certainly were plenty of party girls at URI, and I knew quite a few of them. I didn't really know what I wanted to do with myself at that time in my life.

I first started considering the Marine Corps when my Dad (a retired Naval Lieutenant of 24 years) went onto the internet pretending to be me and filled out the "Request information" forms for every single branch of service and the Coast Guard.
The next day I answered my door to find a SSGT in dress blues standing on my doorstep. When it became clear that I hadn't filled out any form he looked crestfallen, but I invited him in because he had come all that way and it seemed the polite and respectful thing to do. I figured that I'd let him tell his spiel and give him an honest listen. I'd talked to recruiters from the Army and the Navy before, and thought I knew what to expect. They had always sounded like they were trying to sell me something.
But this SSGT impressed me with his lack of bullsh*t. I liked that. It was the first step on my road to becoming a Marine.

[thewookie]

Maybe at the end of your current enlistment, assuming you can/want to reenlist, you can go MCSF if you can't get MSG or a lat move to 02. MCSF is technically a lat move, but you have to go back to your primary when you're done -- *usually*. But what I'm thinking is when you get done with MCSF you can always try lat moves from there. MCSF is not bad duty; for NCO's -- if you get the right spot. Like I said, since you'll be out of your primary in security forces, it might make it easier down the road to lat move before you hit the fleet again?

When I got done with MCSF's I had been out of my primary for over 5 years and they were offering me a lat move. But I got out.

Good luck, Marine. One NJP isn't a career breaker, it is how you perform after that which matters the most.

[Rocky C]

OUTSTANDING!!!

If your Home on Leave in the Summer I'm at "The Wall" on Sundays near The Coast Guard House ( Where the "Harleys" Park ).

You'll know it's me.
Just look for the 6 or 7 Bikini Babes on Roller Skates :)

Nuff said.

Semper Fi,
Rocky

[TJR1070]

Beltayn, you sound like a smart, motivated Marine that has got his head on straight. I wouldn't worry about the one NJP destroying your career, it is just going to extend things a little. Remember Chesty used to say "Take me to the brig, I want to see the real Marines" and "You aren't a real Marine until after your first office hours". A different time but I think you get the point, that the Marine Corps isn't the Boy Scouts but we are expected to learn from our mistakes.

[Nadeau]

I just looked at your profile.
Rhode Island???
Nice!!!

You lived in North Kingston and didn't go to U.R.I???
Alot of Party College Chicks there!!!

Semper Fi,
Rocky

I've played many soccer tournaments in NK!

Anyway, It sucks that I would've done anything for the Crypto Linguist MOS and I couldn't get it because of Security Clearence prerequisites and here's someone who got it and didn't want it at all.

I see this all the time - If the Marine Corps would pay attention to what MOS people actually want I think the whole organization would be way more productive. Sure, some people would have to get stuck with Bulk Fuel Specialist, etc... that's what open contract is for.

[Nadeau]

But this SSGT impressed me with his lack of bullsh*t. I liked that.

With what you thought was "lack of bullsh*t". Didn't you just say he lied to you about your MOS?

[ABrevik]

If anyone is thinking of Lat Moving, my advice to you is, talk to some one that is currently in that MOS to get a jist of it. My mistake was I didn't do that. Just like the saying, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

[gwamo1]

My best piece of advice for you is to get EAS. The chances of you seeing Staff are pretty slim after an NJP and anything past E-6 is like hoping to catch a leprachaun even though you have a wooden leg. That's just my opinion though.

What? One NJP is not career ending. Plenty of senior Marines in my MOS have been subject to NJPs during their early years. Best peice of advice you could offer is to EAS? Have you attended Cpls Course? Are you familer with the mentoring program? If not, ask around.

[Accord]

Okay, the people replying to this thread don't know jack **** about the Marine Corps apparently.

I've got a battalion level NJP. Guess what I did 6 months later? Deploy to Afghanistan as a Squad Leader. Guess what happened when I got back? Picked up Corporal. And now i'm picking up SGT on May 1st and i'm still not even at my 4 year mark yet. An NJP doesn't mean ANYTHING and anyone who tells you otherwise is a ****ing idiot. As long as it's not alcohol related, NJP's are inconsequential.

[TJR1070]

I would re-read all the responses in this thread before you make a stupid comment like that. Most of us have said it shouldn't be a problem, but it might hold up the process and I don't think very...

[thewookie]

Don't forget, you are talking to Accord -- he knows everything about everything, since the first day he logged into this site as a round little fat body. He likes to throw in HIS bragging points when...

[AAV Crewchief]

I'm a newly registered member so I hope I'm putting this in the appropriate forum.

I am a first term Marine who is looking for some information and advice for my career planning so that I can go in to see my CRS as informed and prepared as possible.

Specifically, I am hoping for some clarification regarding the First-Term Lateral Move policy as it relates to my particular situation, some guidance from more experienced Marines for lack of a suitable mentor within my section, and help in establishing a clear plan of action for myself to reach my goals.

Background-
I enlisted into the Marine Corps in Jan. 2008 with the desire to be a 0231 Intelligence Analyst. I was told at the time that getting a contract as a 0231 would be impossible and was talked into enlisting as a 2671 Cryptological Linguist instead, and was assured that it was "the same thing". My scores qualified me for basically anything (145 GT, 131 on the DLAB).
I attended MOS training at DLI, POS Monterey, CA starting in May/June '08 and was assigned to learn Pashto (the language of the primary ethnic group of Afghanistan). I discovered to my dismay that the 2671 MOS was nothing like what I had been led to believe, and the school consisted of over a year and a half of a intense academic environment even worse than the college environment I had hated and specifically joined the Marine Corps to escape.
Prior to starting language training, we were given a brief period (a week or two) of classes actually relating to the Intelligence Analyst-type work that I actually wanted to do and greatly enjoyed. Things like being given a hostile country and forces operating within it to analyze and follow up by giving comprehensive briefings about it. We were given a couple projects of this type during that brief period where I excelled and distinguished myself far beyond the rest of my class, but I was then brought to discover that this was not the kind of work done by a 2671, nor would it be what I would be doing for the next year and a half at the school.
In the following months, I attended classes in Pashto language taught by native speakers, and hated every second of it from the outset. I couldn't get my mind around the work, and found myself falling farther and farther behind despite my best honest efforts. I did everything I could, from extra study sessions, listening to tapes, seeing a councilor in the school house, and living, breathing, and dreaming pashto. But I just couldn't process it. Meanwhile I struggled with the adjustment of settling into the military lifestyle. I felt like a sh*tbag, and it was depressing to feel myself slipping behind my peers despite my work, while knowing that I was trying to do something that I didn't really have an aptitude for.

Long story short about six months into my language training I had finally fell so far behind that I no longer even knew what was going on in class any more, and made the poor decision to relieve my anger and frustration by going UA from class for a couple days.
The resulting NJP was a horrible experience, but also the single best thing that ever happened to me professionally, since it made me grow up in a hurry and turned me into the squared away Marine I am now, carrying that lesson and that motivation forward.

The end result was that I was reclassed as a 3381 Food Service Specialist, and have faithfully done my duty in that MOS since the end of 2008.

I have been at my current duty station of MCAS Cherry Point for over a year now, and though I have no love for the work I have distinguished myself and been recognized by my chain of command for my hard work and proficiency.

Goals-
I understand that it is likely that I will have to continue to wait in some respect to get where I have been trying to be my entire Marine Corps career, but I am trying to be proactive so that I know exactly what I need to do to earn a place in the job field I actually wanted to be in from the very start.
I have read all the source material I can find regarding First Term Lat Moves, but I am not sure how the system applies to my current situation, given that:
-while I have been in the Corps for over two years, I have only been at my current duty station for one year
-I was reclassed to my current MOS punitively
-I enlisted on a 5-year contract, putting my EAS in Jan, 2013

My goal is to continue my professional development and work towards advancement in rank in my current situation while being able to establish a clear timeline for myself on the steps I need to take to earn a lat move into the 0231 field.
Additionally, I want to pursue service as an MSG if that option is available to me at some point.


Conclusion-
I understand that much of what I am relating here is probably best suited directly for either a mentor or my CRS, however I am posting here because any additional input can do nothing but help me and knowledge is power.
I have gone in to see my CRS twice before, but felt brushed off. I know for a fact that they didn't even look at my file.
I want to be able to go in the next time I see my CRS with as much information at my disposal as possible, so that I can be clear and direct with what I am trying to get done, and have the background knowledge to be able to discuss my situation intelligently and not let myself be brushed off.

I appreciate any advice that any of you can share with me, and I thank you for taking the time to read this.

Semper Fi.

DO your three more years you owe to the Corps and then start thinking about all of that when the Career Jammer comes to talk to you about reenlisting.

[AAV Crewchief]

What? One NJP is not career ending. Plenty of senior Marines in my MOS have been subject to NJPs during their early years. Best peice of advice you could offer is to EAS? Have you attended Cpls Course? Are you familer with the mentoring program? If not, ask around.

Good advice.

This guy doesn't realize that he got a break by being allowed to stay in the Corps. He's now acting like the Corps owes him when it is the other way around in his case.

[gwamo1]

Good advice.

This guy doesn't realize that he got a break by being allowed to stay in the Corps. He's now acting like the Corps owes him when it is the other way around in his case.

My comment was aimed at CplMotivates complete lack of anything useful to say, not the OP. Sorry if their was confusion.

[Beltayn]

Good advice.

This guy doesn't realize that he got a break by being allowed to stay in the Corps. He's now acting like the Corps owes him when it is the other way around in his case.


Just want to respectfully clarify something.

I do not in any way feel that my Corps somehow owes me something, or that I deserve anything more than the opportunity to do my duty.

I am a humble and dutiful Marine. I was raised right by my father who is a retired Naval officer. My Senior Drill Instructor instilled in me an understanding of the core values of our service, and beat civilian selfishness out of my old mindset. I could be assigned to burn excrement for the rest of my career and still would be proud to wear my uniform.

I've made some mistakes early in my career that will certainly set me back somewhat. I have fully acknowledged that and take full responsibility for my actions. The past two years have been a period where I've had to do a significant amount of growing up.

Regardless of what happens I will continue to work as hard as I am able and continue to excel in my assigned MOS.
My intentions with this inquiry, however, are to see if the option is feasible to be put to better use. I feel like the contribution I could be making is wasted in my assignment currently.

It frustrates me that:
-Despite having emphatically volunteered multiple times to deploy, I have not been selected to serve when those I went to boot camp with are in many cases returning from their second deployment. I enlisted with deploying being a primary motivation and am currently assigned as station personnel in CONUS with no opportunity to do anything else apparent within my current MOS.
-I know I possess the aptitude and skills to be making a much more valuable contribution to my Corps and the war effort, and do not have any outlet in my current situation to bring them to bear.
-The US Government has already invested a significant amount of resources ($200k if my understanding is correct) on certifying me for the clearance level that I currently possess. Right now, that investment is being wasted.
-On a personal level, I have several close friends either currently engaged in combat operations, or who will be going into harm's way in the near future, and I worry that I will not be capable of doing anything more important for them than sending them off with a hot meal and my prayers. Every evening I read the updates on the ongoing conflict and the DOD releases of the names of those who have fallen casualty to it, and am struck by a sense of helplessness. With Iraq effectively over for the USMC operationally, I worry that Afghanistan may be over too before I am given the opportunity to make a difference.

Maybe I'm naive but I am a Marine and an American and I believe in the importance of the work we are doing. I did not join for the college benefits or the free T-shirt or because I had no real prospects in the civilian world.

I hope you'll forgive me the self-indulgence of searching for an alternative to the position I have found myself in. Perhaps you are right and I should just accept my lot and wait out my remaining years of my extended contract and then EAS and forget about all the reasons why I became a United States Marine in the first place.
I'm embarrassed that you got the impression you did about my motivations. I apologize if my OP failed to represent me as well as it should have. I want to assure you that my intentions are not the selfish ones that you believed them to be.

[Beltayn]

With what you thought was "lack of bullsh*t". Didn't you just say he lied to you about your MOS?

I don't blame my recruiter. He was crashfire rescue and undoubtedly gave me his recommendation in ignorance rather than malicious intent. I was the first person the recruiting station had seen that qualified for the job at all, so there was no doubt top-down pressure on him to get me a contract for the more specialized MOS rather than the one I had asked for, which it would be easier to place other people in contracts for.

[Beltayn]

Just an update:

My name got submitted for special recognition by my chain of command, and me and one other junior enlisted Marine from my (pretty big) section were congratulated by our Squadron CO in person and got a challenge coin from him. It's not a lot, but it's something. It's not everybody that can break the barrier of going from the "New-join PVT coming to us already with an NJP", to "Marine we submit for special recognition and awards".
Oh and they told me they wanted to put me up for Marine of the Quarter, but I was ineligible because my rifle score wasn't updated. (I haven't qual'ed since '08, and I made my chain of command aware of it when I first PCSed here and have been on the waiting list for months. I finally get to go shoot April 5-9th and pick up my orders on Tuesday.)


Meanwhile, I just got word the other day that the MSG recruiters are coming to Cherry Point on April 19th!
Hopefully this might just be the opportunity I've been waiting for. Wish me luck.

[TJR1070]

Good Luck Bro.

[Juicemang]

Just an update:

My name got submitted for special recognition by my chain of command, and me and one other junior enlisted Marine from my (pretty big) section were congratulated by our Squadron CO in person and got a challenge coin from him. It's not a lot, but it's something. It's not everybody that can break the barrier of going from the "New-join PVT coming to us already with an NJP", to "Marine we submit for special recognition and awards".
Oh and they told me they wanted to put me up for Marine of the Quarter, but I was ineligible because my rifle score wasn't updated. (I haven't qual'ed since '08, and I made my chain of command aware of it when I first PCSed here and have been on the waiting list for months. I finally get to go shoot April 5-9th and pick up my orders on Tuesday.)


Meanwhile, I just got word the other day that the MSG recruiters are coming to Cherry Point on April 19th!
Hopefully this might just be the opportunity I've been waiting for. Wish me luck.

Good luck wardog.

[hawks]

Okay, the people replying to this thread don't know jack **** about the Marine Corps apparently.

I've got a battalion level NJP. Guess what I did 6 months later? Deploy to Afghanistan as a Squad Leader. Guess what happened when I got back? Picked up Corporal. And now i'm picking up SGT on May 1st and i'm still not even at my 4 year mark yet. An NJP doesn't mean ANYTHING and anyone who tells you otherwise is a ****ing idiot. As long as it's not alcohol related, NJP's are inconsequential.


So basically once you got to your original unit, you got a batallion NJP, and then you deploy to Afghanistan as a boot ass lcpl "squad leader"? i dont believe you for a second.