Enlisting in later 20's?

[PJ24]

Hello Marines and Friends,

Several months ago I started taking my first steps to making the major decision of choosing to how I want to serve my community (and country). I am here because I would like serve as a Marine more than anything else; I know that earning the title will be a great challenge.

I currently just turned 24 and would like some input, opinions, and advice as to whether it's makes more sense to start the enlisting process sooner or if I realistically have some more time. I will try to sum up my concerns quickly:

I've done some research and gotten very different opinions/recommendations about enlisting with debt. I currently work full-time and I'm saving for lasik surgery. I want to get this done so that I won't fail the MEPS. I'm also currently deciding whether I should finish my bachelor's degree before enlisting. I can graduate by 27 but the more I look at the poolee threads I worry that I would really be squeezed on time. I see that DEP's are long and it seems there's almost a wait of 8 months to a year to go to bootcamp.

I feel as though recruiters tell you that you can earn your degree while your active duty but I'd like to here from Marines who have done it themselves or known others who have. Is it realistic or will it feel like too big a burden while trying to juggle trainings, deployments, etc?

I suppose I have a 3rd option of enlisting and finishing my degree after serving but I'm not sure if I would be able to reenlist.

I apologize for this being long. As I value all of your time I will appreciate frankness and brutal honesty instead of the usual fluff and promises of recruiters and my family members who are Army vets (I'll save that for another day).

Much respect,
Jen

[haebyungdae]

Debt: you will have every chance to deal and manage any debt while in the Marines. Most every base has a finance office, who's purpose is helping out Marines with their money.

Lasik: If you can pass MEPS without it then wait to get it. The Marine Corps will pay for you to get Lasik surgery after you become a Marine.

Age: 24 or 27, no big difference. At 27 your mind might change, decide not to join. With age the physical shock of boot camp, etc. will be more difficult then the average 18 yr old, but I had a friend in MOS school that joined at 29, no problems. And with age you will usually be treated as more mature than your younger peer.

College: You will definitely have and will most likely be pressured by your leaders to work on/finish a degree in the Marines. Most every base has an education center where you can register for college classes, and every Marine is entitled to tuition assistance (a set amount per year, if remember correctly it's like $4500). For Marines, Dantes and CLEP tests are free and you will receive college credit for "being" in the Marines. More or less depending on your MOS and it's associated school.

Certain things above might be difficult given deployments and so on, but it's more about personal motivation to get it done, rather than let things get in the way. I've had friends that receive their BA, and others that received their masters while in the Corps. It's all possible, but it's all down to motivation.

The way I think is that if it is something you want to do, then do it.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. And I'm sure other people will have things to say about the subject too.

[TinDragon]

For Lasik, wait. You may not be able to get in with Lasik. The Marines will pay for you to get PRK, which is another surgury for correcting vision. In a stressful job (like the military or being a cop), you could (supposedly) go blind with Lasik, because of how they do the surgury.

College will be pretty easy to do IF you have a desk job. My buddy got his Associates degree online in the two years he was in, with only a few credits beforehand. If you end up with more of a combat related job it'll be a little harder, since they do a lot of field training and such.

[Lisa 23]

I agree with the other Marines on waiting to get lasik eye surgery done after you are in the Marines. Having that surgery done before you join, will require a waiver that may or may not get approved.


Military Laser Eye Surgery Policy

With only a few exceptions, active duty soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines are allowed to have their vision corrected with laser eye surgery and not worry about it affecting their careers.


Service officials have been studying photorefractive keratectomy, or PRK, and laser in-situ keratomileusis, commonly called LASIK, the two most common procedures, almost since their outset and are convinced they're safe for military members in most career fields.


PRK involves correcting vision by using a laser to remove surface corneal tissue. In LASIK, the surgeon cuts a flap in the cornea, flips it aside, removes corneal tissue with a laser, and flips the corneal flap back into place.


Members do need to be evaluated by a medical board after receiving the now-rare radial keratotomy, RK, the first common vision-correction surgical procedure. RK involved shaping the cornea with spoke-like scalpel cuts that, service medical officials insisted, weakened the eye structure and put members at risk in military operating environments.


Service officials outlined the restrictions on their active duty members.


Laser eye surgery accomplished before a member enters active duty continues to be a medical disqualifier. However, medical waivers are possible. See the Laser Eye Surgery Medical Waiver Policy page (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/milarticles/bllasersurgeryjoin.htm) for more information.


Currently, the Air Force allows free laser eye surgery (PRK) only to those in a limited number of jobs (AFSC). Other Air Force personnel are allowed to have the surgery space-available, or civilian surgery at their own expense, if they get permission from their Air Force Medical Facility and Commander, first. See the Air Force Laser Eye Surgery Page (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/milarticles/blaflasereyesurgery.htm).


Navy policy disqualifies its aviators from flying duty if they have either procedure, Capt. Charles Barker said. Barker is the director of aerospace medicine for the Navy's Bureau of Medicine and Surgery here. "If they go out and get this on their own, don't tell anybody and get caught, they're not physically qualified and they would have to be reassigned to some other general duty to finish their obligation," he said.


Barker said Navy policy may be affected, however, by two ongoing studies into the effects of laser eye surgery on aviators. Navy pilots enrolled in these studies can receive a waiver to remain on flying status.


Navy SEALs and divers are allowed to receive PRK, but not LASIK. "LASIK continues to be disqualifying with no waiver recommended for SEALs and divers," he said.

Sailors and Marines are required to have their commander's approval before having either procedure done and they must be cleared by service medical personnel before they can return to duty, Barker said.


For more details, see the Navy and Marine Corps Laser Eye Surgery Policy Page (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blnavylasereyesurgery.htm).


Army aviators will flunk their flight physicals if they have PRK and LASIK, but the Army is different from the other services in that it's providing PRK free to certain soldiers, said Army Dr. (Lt. Col.) Vernon Parmley, director of the Cornea Service at Madigan Army Medical Center, Fort Lewis, Wash. Womack Army Medical Center at Fort Bragg, N.C., has been performing free PRK laser eye surgery on active duty soldiers since June 1 (2000). The highest priority there goes to Special Forces soldiers, Rangers and soldiers in some frequently deployed units (See Army Policy (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/milarticles/blareyesurgery.htm))

Army medical officials say the service plans to offer the procedure at four more centers by mid-2001. See the Army Laser Eye Surgery Page (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/milarticles/blareyesurgery.htm) for more information.


Officials from all the services stressed the importance of research before having any elective procedure. "This is surgery on your eyes," said the Air Force's Saenger. All surgery carries inherent risks, she said, and that fact is unfortunately downplayed or ignored in PRK and LASIK ads.


"Don't rely on any one person, any one Web site, any one source to give you the entire story about the risks and the benefits," Saenger said. "People really, really need to make an informed decision. It's not like glasses or contacts that you can change if they're not quite right."


Military Medical Standards for Enlistment & Commission

Eyes and Vision

Refractive Eye Surgery

This includes (but is not limited to) a history of lamellar surgury, penetrating keratoplasty, LASEK, and LASIK.
Radial Keratotomy and Astigmatic Keratotomy is disqualifying.
LASEK and LASIK is disqualifying if any of the following conditions are present:

(1) Pre-surgury refractive error in either eye exceeds + 8.00 to - 8.00 diopters.

(2) At least 6 months recovery period has not occurred between last refractive surgery or augmenting procedure and MEPS medical examination.

(3) There have been complications, and/or medications or ophthalmic solutions are required.

(4) Post-surgical refraction in each eye is not stable as demonstrated by (a) At least two separate refractions at least one month apart, the most recent of which demonstrates more than +/- 0.50 diopters difference for spherical vision and/or more than +/- 0.25 diopters for cylinder vision; and (b) At least 3 months recovery has not occurred between the last refractive surgery or augmenting procedure and one of the comparison refractions.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/eyes.htm



Medical Waivers
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/medicalwaiver.htm

[TinDragon]

Ah, I apologize for the confusion I may have given by saying LASIK is a no go. It is, but I was definitely thinking of the RK thing.

But yeah, wait until after you're in. I have about 2 months before I'm putting in my request for PRK.

[PJ24]

Thank you all for this information. WMarine- I'm surprised to read about this to be honest but I suppose you can't trust an Army recruiter. To sum up-

I have a twin brother who committed to enlisting in the Army when he was 18. Unfortunately he failed the MEPS because of the vision exam and his waiver was denied because of his high precription (mine is almost identical to his). His recruiter spend months afterward giving him information about lasik and trying to convince my mother to take a loan for the surgery. Ultimately my brother didn't like the idea of surgery (I guess I don't blame him, you only have 1 set of eyes right?).

Anyhow this recruiter was making all sort of guarantees that after lasik the waiver would be granted- and this was 6 years ago! I spoke to another recruiter last year when I began thinking about serving and he told me that same thing- "save for surgery and then come see me."

I have a lot of respect for recruiters time so I didn't want to go through DEP knowing I stand to fail the MEPS. Should I try anyway and then worry about waivers?

[TinDragon]

Out of curiousity, what's your perscription for glasses? Mine's pretty bad (to the point where they have to do something special with the lenses to make them thin enough to fit) but I could still waiver my eyesight.

If I were you, I'd give it a go. If it turns out you do need to do something crazy like surgury, then you should be able to try again by the time you're done recovering.

[Lisa 23]

When my nephew was going through the process of joining the Marine Corps, he had to get a waiver for his eyes, and no...he didn't have the surgery, because his eyesight isn't so great, but with the report from the civilain doctor that MEPS sent him to, he was approved for a waiver from MEPS, and he graduated boot camp on Aug 29th of 2009.
In my opinion, go through MEPS first. You'll never know what can happen by going through MEPS first until you try.
Best of luck to you! :thumbup:

[xpaz]

There aren't many jobs that offer you so many options, are there, PJ24? As a Marine who was once in a similar situation, I can empathize and understand where you're coming from; it can be a bit overwhelming trying to put down on paper your immediate goals for the next several years of your life.

Getting a job in the civilian world is always an experimental process; you have the best expectations, but always have that inkling that if things don't work out, you'll always be able to find another job (well, maybe not in this economy).

I'm with everyone else as far as waiting on the Lasik. Generally I've heard that PRK is a more comprehensive procedure, even though it can take a bit longer to recover from. I recently applied for the procedure and was put on "Priority 3," meaning I have about a 2 year wait before I'll be able to get it done for free on the government's dime. I know some blind MF'ers and they've made it by just fine in the Corps; I say go for it at MEPS.

You question about college is one of the hardest ones to answer as a third party. I was in a similar position; I had graduated college and weighed the Enlisted vs. Commissioned side and ultimately decided to enlist. Sometimes I regret it and sometimes I wouldn't trade the experience for the world. Any route you take will have ups and downs.

My ultimate advice to you is that if you ever think you'll have the desire to be a Commissioned Officer of Marines, is that you take the steps to become one now. The age cut-off can be waivered, but it's usually set at 28 years old. There's nothing wrong with enlisting; there is some extra crap you'll have to put up with, not only being older, but being more "educated" than your average enlisted junior Marine.

Your time window to become an Officer (like mine) is rapidly becoming smaller and smaller; don't lose the opportunity to do so if it does indeed have a spot on your ultimate list of goals. Based on what I've been told, you should not listen to a recruiter who tells you that if you enlist at 27 years old with a degree, that you'll be able to earn a commission by the time you're 28.

I was slightly younger than you with my degree when I started considering joining, but my window was already pretty small. I suggest you take the opportunity to really consider the commissioned route.

On that same note, there is no shame in enlisting as an older Marine. Sometimes it's rough dealing with some immaturity in the lower ranks, but you can use your age and intellect to be a positive influence and set yourself apart. Don't worry about being an older enlisted Marine. But really do consider the commissioned route.

Hope my rambling has been a little helpful. Good luck.

[CastNoShadow]

How are recruits generally treated at bootcamp that are in their late 20s by the DIs and other recruits? I am 28 and shipping in mid April. Just curious more than anything. I can already see getting a callsign like gramps, geezer, or the like.

Also, how can I change my profile from listing me as a Marine, as I have not earned it yet?

[Lisa 23]

PM one of the mods...jinelson or thedrifter...and have them change your status from Marine to poolee, since you have a shipdate in April.

[xpaz]

When I was in, everyone got treated pretty much the same as far as age went. If anything, my senior Drill Instructor had more confidence and trust in me. If you are motivated they will see it, and your age will serve you to your benefit as far as getting a billet goes. Don't worry about the age gap - focus on your training; you will get what you earn in boot camp. Nicknames should be the least of your concern, and if memory serves me right, no one even had any in my platoon. Everyone gets treated poorly, but you'll get "respect" and opportunity if you prove yourself, sshow maturity and earn it, just like any other recruit.

[FattyTheFerret]

How are recruits generally treated at bootcamp that are in their late 20s by the DIs and other recruits? I am 28 and shipping in mid April. Just curious more than anything. I can already see getting a callsign like gramps, geezer, or the like.

Also, how can I change my profile from listing me as a Marine, as I have not earned it yet?

It depends on your drill instructors but most of the NCOs I've met, including my drill instructors, treated me somewhat differently due to my age. I was older than all of them, including my SDI. They expected a lot more of me, especially on the common sense things. They expected me to function better with less sleep, to be on the same page with them on issues that the usual 18 year old fresh from his mom's house just wouldn't get. Things like that.

We had some other older guys in my platoon. One of them was 9 years prior service in the Navy. Left the Navy as an E-7 select. Graduated with more ribbons on his uniform than any drill instructor in the company. He still hit the quarter deck along with the rest of us.

It's carried through the rest of the training and into the fleet for me. I'm not treated like the average 19 year old LCpl but at the same time a lot more is expected of me. I'm guessing you'll experience the same but it all depends on the people you work for.

[PJ24]

Out of curiousity, what's your perscription for glasses? Mine's pretty bad (to the point where they have to do something special with the lenses to make them thin enough to fit) but I could still waiver my eyesight.

Thank you for the encouragement. I suppose I will have to visit my doc and find out. I've worn contacts for a long time: currently -11 and -10. I know that's bad for contacts because I can't order from places like 1800contacts.

Xpaz- I very much appreciated your response. I'm glad I found this forum to learn from Marines who have gone through the decision making and process. I know it's different for each person- for myself it seems I have too many options (work/careerwise) but few with such a sense of purpose and community. Speaking with several vets (although none Marines) who may have started out with a similar idealism I do believe that they are right in saying that it isn't about politics or national pride/duty but more duty to each other. That being said, I want to go into this without a sense of unfinished business. I do think I will be doing quite a bit of soul searching in making the decision whether to finish my degree first and then enlist or attempt OCS or just jump in running. I suppose for now I will keep working on my PT. I'm on track with the running and situps but I've yet to conquer the flex. Any tips besides pushups?

All best,
Jen