Marines in The Pacific

[ameriken]

Another Tom Hanks/Steven Spielberg 10 part miniseries, coming in March.

Trailers here: http://www.hbo.com/events/pacific/

[DocGreek]

Looking forward to that one!! NOW...we'll all see our country's BEST (MARINES!).....doing "it" RIGHT!!!

[bootlace15]

My father was wounded on Iwo Jima. He never said a damn word about that place. EVER

[Sgt Leprechaun]

This series is the ONLY reason I have HBO.....I'm very anxious to see what they do with it.

[TJR1070]

I can't wait, if it's anything like Band of Brothers it should be great. Hopefully this will be a fitting tribute to those unbelievable men, that at great cost, defeated a motivated, entrenched enemy across thousands of miles of islands.

[ameriken]

Just over 3 weeks away......starts March 14.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e99B80crU3E

[Komenko]

i don't have HBO but you can bet you ass i'm going to buy the Tin Set when it hits the stores like Band of Brothers did.

[ameriken]

Reminder, starts tonite. Got HBO just for this. :iwo:

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: WTF is up with Tom Hanks saw Him calling Us Racist for the Way the WW2 Men killed all the Japs.And saying also the War now is A Racial one against the Muslims,He has made Millions upon Millions now He pulling this Hollyweird Guru Chit.If it weren't for The WW2 Men and Women of our Military Tom Hanks would not exist.Wow what a Slap in the Face,I will never spend a dime of My $ on any of His Chit in the Future. :mad: :iwo:

[ameriken]

Yeah, I heard about that sh*t. Makes no sense that he can produce such outstanding war films that honor those soldiers and Marines of WWII, and then turn around and say such bullsh*t. No sense at all.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: But I will watch the New Series on the Pacific and Tape it.But I think He's on Angel Dust now.A buddy from Cali.said Clint Eastwood was not a very Happy Camper @ Expressed his Feelings in a Local Newspaper up in Santa Barbara about Hank's bullchit S/F Ameriken GodSpeed :beer: :iwo:

[hussaf]

Everyone in Hollywood is pretty much super-liberal and a cause-head. This is exacerbated by the fact that they have very little grounding in reality and live highly protected lives. If you want to enjoy good movies your probably going to have to make yourself ignorant of their stupidity (there are exceptions, of course).

Anyway, I hope this series does justice to the veterans who are all too often overlooked (Pacific Theater).

[OldMarineMom]

My dad served in the Pacific Theater as a Tanker. I watched this first episode tonight, and I kept checking out the cammie shirts. Some of them looked like the old herringbone pattern, but some of them didn't. I remember my dad had one that my mom use to throw on when she'd go outside to work in the yard during Spring (showing my age, I know).

I'm going to have to dig out my dad's old service records, and look at all the places he was at over there. I don't recall him ever talking too much about it. He passed away 14 years ago, so there's no way I'd be able to verify the accuracy of this series.

Mary :flag:

[TJR1070]

Un-freaking believable, Chesty Puller and John Basilone in the first episode, with a real account of the first few days of the Guadalcanal campaign. I can't wait to see the next episode when Gunny Basilone (then Sgt.) earns his Medal of Honor.

[DocGreek]

:evilgrin:....WELL.....I thought there would be more background of the "STARS", boot camp, family "portrait's", and better profiles of the 3 men.
Just showing 8 episodes of combat, will be a mistake. So far, a crappy begining.
We'll see....:evilgrin:

[Old Marine]

Many, many ,many flicks that get a whole lot of pub turn out to be not what the are built up to be.

[Marine84]

I liked it - especially at the end when they were singing happy birthday to one of them and they added on:

How fkd are you?
How fkd are you?
How fkd are you?
You're really fkd now.

Made me laugh. Can't wait to see the next one.

[Box Kicker 51]

1'st of all, movies are ONLY propaganda! You want reality? Let's talk documentaries, not fantasy.

This one is in time for Obama to visit Guam, and address the Marines movement there!

Japan is divided. Half think we are all rapists' & murderors', and the rest think we are more like...a guaranteed paychek!


P.S: Tom Hanks is in the Disney, "Toy Story" movies (right?), but I heard that he said, he doesn't even play with toys! What a TWO-FACED-MONEY-HUNGRY-HOLLYWOOD-GEOPOLITICAL-SCUMBAG!!!

[silverdollar]

I watched the first episode and thought " What a load of crap"

Did they have a technical adviser? I was in during the early 50s and we did not have collar insignia for rank, we stenciled our rank on the sleeves of our utilities, I was a gunner on a water cooled 30 for awhile and the gunner carried the tripod and cradle, the asst gunner carried the gun.
And the way he was firing the gun he would not have hit anything. we fired the gun with our left hand and used our right for the traversing knob and the elevation knob. never a free swinging gun, good way to kill your own people. and where are the helmet covers? I was pretty sure we had them in ww2?

ps, I have never seen a tripod carried like a baby with the legs folded.

[lastcigar]

I don't recall ever seeing a picture of a Marine without the helmet cover. Maybe at the start of the war they didn't have them?? Does anyone know? Also in one scene
I thought I haw EGA devises on utilitities. Never seen that either, is that accurate?
At this point the first show was ok, not great but ok. We'll see.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Sigh.

I couldn't watch on Sunday, but caught the re-run last night.

I was really, really, looking foward to this. (And bought HBO ONLY for it..)

Now...I'm not so sure.

The wife, who watched it Sunday, gave it a lukewarm rating.

After watching it myself, I'm inclined to agree to a certain extent.

Character development wasn't what I hoped it would be. Unless you know Marine Corps history, really, you have no clue who is who or even what the heck is going on.

I can't comment on how the 30 cal was carried, but Silver Dollar, that's an interesting observation.

Last cigar, the introduction of the Steel "Pot" occured in early 1942, and replaced the old 'tin hat' style helmet. I don't believe that helmet covers were used in the Guadalcanal campaign, simply because they hadn't been fielded yet. I'll have to check my books on that to be 100 percent.

EGA devices on utilities (which were also just beginning to be fielded, the first pattern HBT's, with gas flaps, etc) are, in fact, correct.

One thing I can't recall is if, in the show, most Marines are armed with Springfields or are carrying Garands. If they are carrying Garands at the beginning, that's wrong, since they basically swiped them from the Army when they showed up later. Most Marines didn't have 'em.

[temarti]

Japan is divided. Half think we are all rapists' & murderors', and the rest think we are more like...a guaranteed paychek!


So how much experience do you have in Japan to form this opinion?

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I rather enjoyed my time on the mainland (Japan). I found the people to be nice, decent, hardworking, and hard drinking LOL.

[temarti]

I just need to learn to ignore the ignorant, haha..

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Lol

[lastcigar]

Sgt. Leprechaun,
Thanks for the reply. Now that you say that I do remember pics of Pearl and Wake and they were wearing the old doughboy helment so I believe you 100%. To be clear though on the EGA, stencilled on the pocket, absolutely; but metal divices on the collars was what I was wondering about. I don't know, so if you say they did I don't doubt you, just wanted to be sure we are talking the same thing as when I looked at my orginal comment I wasn't sure I was clear.
Thanks again & Happy St Pat from one Irishman to another.
"Faugh a Ballogh"

[yanacek]

Lep is correct about the helmet covers. They were not worn on the Canal. The left breast pocket had the letters "USMC" and a Marine Corps emblem below. Metal collar insignia for enlisted men were not used during WW-II--in fact there was no device showing rank on the dungarees. After WW-II, as Silverdollar stated, the regs called for them to be stenciled on the sleeve in the usual position.

http://www.wwiiimpressions.com/images/usmc4.jpg

[yanacek]

:evilgrin: WTF is up with Tom Hanks saw Him calling Us Racist for the Way the WW2 Men killed all the Japs.And saying also the War now is A Racial one against the Muslims,He has made Millions upon Millions now He pulling this Hollyweird Guru Chit.If it weren't for The WW2 Men and Women of our Military Tom Hanks would not exist.Wow what a Slap in the Face,I will never spend a dime of My $ on any of His Chit in the Future. :mad: :iwo:

This is EXACTLY why I will never watch this movie. That piece of $hit is making money off the sacrifices of others who are better than him--and then adding his political BS statement and slandering them for the fine job they did in the Pacific.

[lastcigar]

That answers it for me. Thanks.
SF

[kenrobg30]

I was too young for the Corps, at that time, but I had a cousin, and an uld family friend, who were both there. According to what they told me, The rank was stenciled on the sleeve, as small as possible, and USMC on the pocket, above the EGA. No metal devices were worn. Officers, generally wore one device, under their lapel flap. I believe, they had a small Device, stenciled on the back of their helmets. That may have come in with the new helmets. All I'm sure of is, it was considered to be impolite to salute, anywhere on Guadal Canal. :flag: S/F!!! Ken

[blackup]

Here are some great photos from the Pacific campaign. Marines without helmet covers on Guadalcanal, too.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2010/03/18/captured-blog-the-pacific-and-adjacent-theaters/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+dp-blogs-captured+(Denver+Post:+Blogs:+Captured+Photo+Blog)&utm_content=Google+Reader

[Cpl Farrel]

My buddy's father is a WWII Marine in the Pacific theater. He fought in Peleliu (Purple Hart), was in Guadalcanal, Okinawa, Guam and China. He was actually invited to Washington to meet Hanks and...

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Metal devices...got it. As far as 'regulation' goes, NO, they wouldn't have been worn on the 'dungarees' or the HBT. However.....that being said, and Marines being Marines....if I dug around enough, I'll bet you a beer that I could find a pic of a Marine wearing an EGA on his collar when he wasn't supposed to be doing so. On a recent visit to the MC Museum, I was looking at some prize winning photos on the 2nd deck, and lo and behold, there as big as day, is a Marine in Vietnam, MP type, wearing a 'barracks cover' sized EGA on his flak jacket, with a cut off MP brassard below it. I took a photo of it, when I get a chance I'll post it up.

So, I'd say 'never say never'.

As far as the rank stenciled on the sleeves, I've found that it depends by unit. Also, these HBT uniforms were actually recycled (no kidding) so you might just get another wounded (or killed) Marine's set when you needed new....and have to black out rank and name. Gear was the same way, it wasn't 'yours'.

As far as the helmet markings, I know the army had 'leadership stripes' on the reverse of their 'pots' during D-day (and in other locations), stenciled on the reverse. Certainly not unheard of for Marines to do so as well.

[ameriken]

One thing I caught in the beginning of the show was when a Major was speaking to a group of NCO's to prep them for the Pacific campaign.

The Major said "The uniform that you wear, the Globe and Anchor that you have e arned......"

Never heard it called 'The Globe and Anchor'.

[Zulu 36]

The DD-214 equivalent information was found on the back of the discharge certificate for the WWII era. That's where my father's is anyway.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Cpl Farrel, you should be able to get his records from NARA. Worth the time and effort to do so.

[ameriken]

Here are some great photos from the Pacific campaign. Marines without helmet covers on Guadalcanal, too.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2010/03/18/captured-blog-the-pacific-and-adjacent-theaters/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+dp-blogs-captured+(Denver+Post:+Blogs:+Captured+Photo+Blog)&utm_content=Google+Reader

That was an outstanding gallery :thumbup:

[carrvy1]

The younger generations need to be made aware of the perils
of war. Since history text books devote only a couple of paragraphs
to world war 2.

[FistFu68]

:evilgrin: That Pic#27 that MARINE RIFLEMAN,W/his M-1 Garand and that Fixed 15" Bayonet w/the Thousand Yard Stare in His Eyes.Well I know a world class Artist in Chicago that said He'd do it for Me in Charcoal to put over My Fireplace...4'by 3' S/F :iwo::thumbup:

[ameriken]

Fvcking A. Tonite was excellent. Basilone kicked some ass.

The episodes are just a little too short, not even a full hour.

[jetdawgg]

John Basilone is one of my favorite Marines

Pic 62 has a few African American Marines:


62
March 10, 1945: U.S. troops in the Pacific islands continued to find enemy holdouts long after the main Japanese forces had either surrendered or disappeared. Guam was considered cleared by August 12, 1944, but parts of the island were still dangerous half a year later. Here, patrolling Marines pass a dead Japanese sniper. These Marines may belong to the Fifty-second Defense Battalion, one of two black units sent to the Pacific. (Charles P. Gorry, AP Staff/AP Archives)

[DocGreek]

AMERIKEN.....that feller in the first episode with the pipe, briefing Bassilone and other NCO's, was Lt. COLONEL Puller.....SILVER OAK LEAF!!....:D

[ameriken]

AMERIKEN.....that feller in the first episode with the pipe, briefing Bassilone and other NCO's, was Lt. COLONEL Puller.....SILVER OAK LEAF!!....:D

I guess I am colorblind Doc! I thought I saw gold. :D

[DocGreek]

It's OKAY...SONNY!! I've got TRI-FOCALS, so I had to watch the first episode THREE TIMES, just to see what I MISSED!!!!

[ameriken]

LMAO, that's some funny shiit Doc!!

[ameriken]

Part 3 tonite. So far a decent series.

[jetdawgg]

Well scripted and the acting is on par also. :usmc:

[ameriken]

I like the portrayal of Chesty Puller.

[FistFu68]

:usmc: I like the everday communication and thoughts by the Marines and Devil Doc's themselves the Human Factor of it All...Semper~Fidelis :usmc: :iwo:

[jetdawgg]

I liked that straight left in bar that dropped that Aussie:D:usmc:

[FistFu68]

:D :thumbup: :D

[jetdawgg]

Well that looked like the sex show. Ain't getting no more now:D:usmc:

[DocGreek]

Sitting here listening to Glen Miller's band playing "Moonlite Serenade", and thinking about my Mom and Dad, dancing in downtown London....39' to 41'. I really miss them both.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

No doubt Doc.

Well, I watched Part 2 and Part 3, both in the same night. I'm getting 'warmer' to the series.

I'd like to see some more character development, but thus far, my opinion is improving.

Some technical points that I really liked but I think should have been better explained...

The "Raggedy Azzed Marines" were that way due to lack of supplies, not because they wanted to be. I realize it shows them stealing stuff from the army but it doesn't hit that again, really. I'm sure some people might be wondering they were debarking the ship still looking like crap.

Once in Melbourne, they were re-issed USMC uniforms and equipment...MADE IN AUSTRALIA. (No kidding). The short "Ike" style jackets were copied from the 'British Battledress' (and approved by General Vandegrift..thus the USMC name for them, 'Vandegrift' jackets) as a 'war economy' measure. All were Aussie made (the buttons, if you look closely, are of a different color and style than standard USMC buttons...a nice style point that I appreciated).

Thus, the "Ike" jacket adopted by the army was actually taken from the USMC!

Also, note the position of the 1stMarDiv patch, worn on the RIGHT shoulder and not the left. This is correct. I would have liked to have seen the 's' styled patch being used instead, (more correct but only used awhile) and the patches to have more of a 'sheen' to them (the Aussie made ones were made of a shinier thread than the US ones) but it still looked good.

Note that when the Marines Re-embark, not all are wearing the same uniforms, this was also normal, some are wearing the experimental 'coveralls' that were quickly dropped (because they were one piece...you had to drop the whole thing to hit the head!....Not practical).

Also now they are wearing the camo covers as well.

[jetdawgg]

The intensity sure picked up tonite:usmc:

[ameriken]

Sure did Mike. Crossing that airfield in Peleliu was hell.

Excellent miniseries. If any of you Marines haven't seen it, try and catch up on the reruns, it is well worth it.

[Lynn2]

"Also, note the position of the 1stMarDiv patch, worn on the RIGHT shoulder and not the left."

Actually, in the series (Melbourne) it was shown being worn on the right and left shoulder. And that is just how it happened in real life. At least until they got word to the Marines how it was supposed to be worn.

5 and 6 have been a hell of a ride for me. Exhausting and intense. It takes me a while to recover after watching those. And I pick up even more on a 2nd or 3rd viewing.

And if you can believe it some moron on a civi forum who claims to be a vet states he will watch no more because epi 6 is making Americans appear as wimps.

[Lynn2]

Like most of you I am sure I have read a ton of books and articles on this Island fighting. I have replayed it in my minds eye as to what I though was actually happening. But this series has brought it to life for me.

The best combat scenes (and that includes BoB and SPR) ever produced for series or movie.

The best look at the total arc at what long term nasty combat can do to a person. How they cope and how they do not cope. Brilliant as far as what those invasions did to those kids.

I am in awe.

[jetdawgg]

Remember the scene where they had to kill that Marine because he was screaming out?

Brutal. You just cannot have any other person compromise your position:iwo:

[ameriken]

Remember the scene where they had to kill that Marine because he was screaming out?

Brutal. You just cannot have any other person compromise your position:iwo:

There was not much else they could do, they gave him a shot of morphine and that didnt quiet him down. There was no apparant regret by anyone in the platoon either.

I wonder how that would be handled today? Attorneys would be all over that and the media and politicians would have a field day pinning the Marines as sadistic murderers.

[Zulu 36]

There was not much else they could do, they gave him a shot of morphine and that didnt quiet him down. There was no apparant regret by anyone in the platoon either.

I wonder how that would be handled today? Attorneys would be all over that and the media and politicians would have a field day pinning the Marines as sadistic murderers.


In the book (Eugene Sledge), they didn't intend to kill the Marine, only knock him out. It didn't work the way they planned. In the book there was some regret evident, but a realistic attitude prevailed.

[Lynn2]

There was not much else they could do, they gave him a shot of morphine and that didnt quiet him down. There was no apparant regret by anyone in the platoon either.



From my bad memory that was two shots of morphine they gave him. And the morphine used in WW2 was much more industrial strength than the stuff we had in VN.

From the book they were just trying to keep him quiet. I guess an entrenching tool is an uneven method to be using if you are just trying to knock someone out.

I have no doubt there was regret and guilt. That Marine was someones best buddy. Someones bootcamp friend. No one could be anything but torn apart from killing one of your own no matter how needed the hit on the head was.

I think the looks on the faces of those Marines after was dead on.

[Lynn2]

I wonder how that would be handled today? Attorneys would be all over that and the media and politicians would have a field day pinning the Marines as sadistic murderers.

I wonder how a lot of this would be handled today? Invading an island with those casualties and then to find out later that many senior officers realized just before the invasion that no invasion was really needed.

But what the heck the armada had already sailed. Can't shut down after the armada has started toward the invasion.

Well its not a big deal when the fighting is only going to last 3 days :-(

A supply officer that sends the only water the infantry Marines had in oil soaked drums. In 115 degree weather.

A senior General Officer that promises a 3-4 day invasion that weeks later with casualties in some units approaching 60% still refuses to OK the Army troops to enter the fray even though they are on the ships ready to go.

A General officer that has to be ordered, by the General above him, to use fresh Army troops when his own USMC units are at 50%-60% casualties, and weeks more fighting to go, should have been a relieved officer.

A lot would be different today I would guess.

[jetdawgg]

The Marine Corps is a very tough place. Probably the toughest fighting unit in the history of the world. When something like this occurs, the main objective is to quiet the noise.

When any Marine is risking the integrity of the entire unit, there may be some regrets afterwards, but stifling the noise is the primary objective. This is the Marine Corps.

I hope that every Active Duty Marine understands that the mission is the objective and that each individual Marine is expendable.

Again, this is the Marine Corps, you need to be in another branch of the military if this is an issue.:usmc::iwo:

[Lynn2]

A suggestion to all. After you have watched the Pacific the first time the regular way try this the 2nd time. Turn on your caption option.

You will be totally amazed at how much you missed the first time around. Some of what you will have missed will be with the actors on screen. But most of it is with stuff that you barely hear and cannot see at all.

Its those back ground voices off in the distance. The attention to detail is pretty impressive.

And this goes for the battle scenes and the hospital scenes and everything else in between.

[Lynn2]

Expendable?

"normally used up or consumed in service <expendable supplies like pencils and paper> b : more easily or economically replaced than rescued, salvaged, or protected

Not worth salvaging or reusing"

I will be honest I never served in combat at any time with a Marine or Doc I thought was expendable. In fact the only truly important thing was bringing all the guys back alive and hopefully unhurt.

Other than the lives of other Marines or Docs I never saw one thing in my war that was worth losing the life of one of my Marines.

[jetdawgg]

@Lynn2

Just think, was Peleliu necessary at all?:usmc: What was the strategic value?

[Lynn2]

@Lynn2

Just think, was Peleliu necessary at all?:usmc: What was the strategic value?

Jet a great question.

I admit to being only a casual reader re. this invasion. I am sure there are many more well versed. But IMO its an invasion that should have never been planned, never should have been given the OK, and should have been canceled once they realized that it was unneeded.

This is one time the Marines and sailors were totally let down by incompetent upper management.

Two days before the invasion Halsey thru Nimitz recommended to the Joint Chiefs that the invasion in fact be canceled.

The recommendation was not found to be wrong but just too late. The President had been briefed, ships had been loaded and put to sea. The wheels had been turning. But they still had two friggin days.

Incompetence that this would be easy. How in the heck in 1944 are you still expecting easy invasions?

Sending in the Marines was easier than telling them to stand down.

I think of this every time I see a Marine fall or his head explode during this part of the series.

And this is not just the value of hindsight decades later. In the book a Marine Buddy of Sledge explains to him why it was all unneeded just a day or two after they were pulled off the island. A pretty smart PFC.

[DocGreek]

I heard one of the gentlemen, who was a large part of the story, make some comments about the conditions that the Marines had to deal with on Pel.
It's interesting that the conditions in RVN were quite similar....out in the open, 100 to 115 degrees, NO water, low on chow (K-RATS), staying in the "woods" for 20 to 30 days.....AND when it started raining, day and night....the NVA set up some very well planned ambushes. WTF were we doing, stomping through the bush...AT NIGHT...in the rain and mud? I know what reason was GIVEN, but "IT" cost Marine lives....UNNESSESARILY.
"Find the cost of Freedom, buried in the ground. Find the cost of Freedom....lay your body down."
SEMPER FI...GENTLEMEN...Doc Greek....:iwo:

[jetdawgg]

http://classicwarmovies.com/DVD/DVD-2_they-were-expendable.jpg

[Lynn2]

the conditions that the Marines had to deal with on Pel.
It's interesting that the conditions in RVN were quite similar....out in the open, 100 to 115 degrees, NO water, low on chow (K-RATS), staying in the "woods" for 20 to 30 days..... but "IT" cost Marine lives....UNNESSESARILY.
..Doc Greek....:iwo:

Doc just the look on those Marines as they dealt with no water in 115 degree heat while you still had a day job to contend with hit me like a load of bricks.

But it was epi 4 and the fighting on New Guinea that hit home the most for me. That epi, short a look as it was, really brought jungle fighting in the rainy season :-( back to life for me.

I have found this whole series to be well done. I wish they could have spent more time on some things that were brought out in the book but I do understand $$$$$ issues and having to make choices.

But as much as I am enjoying this series I find it very emotionally draining. In fact tough to watch.

I am so looking forward to watching the new HBO series Treme. But I refuse to watch it while the Pacific is on. For me the Pacific tells our story better than anything else ever done on film. Whether we actually lived that story or not.

The time for N.O. and upbeat stories and music will come.

Right now its all about those boys.

[Zulu 36]

I just finished reading the companion book to the HBO series, "The Pacific" by Hugh Ambrose (son of Stephen Ambrose of Band of Brothers fame).

The book covers some more people than the mini-series does (as someone properly stated, it was a money and time choice a book author doesn't have to make). In essence the book blends the stories of Eugene Sledge, Sidney Phillips, John Basilone, LtCol "Shifty" Shofner, and a Navy dive bomber pilot Lt. "Mike" Micheel. Robert Leckie gets mentioned a few times. All except Basilone survive the war and not from lack of trying on the Japanese part.

However, I found the book to be poorly written in some respects, in that some minor details were inaccurately described or improperly used which detracted from the story. Details that are insignificant to the average civilian reader, but important to the initiated for judging the overall accuracy of the book and the depth of research conducted by the author.

In general, I found the book an OK read, although some of those inaccuracies were distracting. They might have been fixed by letting an experienced Marine with some history education proof read the darned thing.

The book is worth reading just to learn about Shift Shofner's adventures as a Marine officer on Corrigidor, to POW camps on Luzon and Mindinao, to his escape with nine other POWs, career as a Philippino guerrilla leader, escape from the Philippines by sub, and return to combat at Peleliu and Okinawa (great welcome back). This is the first book I've read that covers this escape event in this kind of detail. Shofner's escape was the ONLY mass escape from a Japanese POW camp during the war. Shofner kept a journal the whole time, but declined to write a book after the war.

The book makes no bones about how physically and mentally affected these Marines were by the war. No glorification although it does slide over some of the gory details you will find in Eugene's Sledge's own book, particularly as it relates to the Okinawan fighting in the rain and mud.

The book also makes no bones about the general Marine Corps wide disdain for General MacArthur. This may be why you don't read much about Shifty Shofner because he was unstinting in his dislike because of what happened on Bataan and Corrigidor.

The book is also not very gentle on Chesty Puller's leadership at Peleliu (it doesn't rip him up badly though).

I would hold off buying the book until it comes out in paperback or you can get the Kindle edition. The Kindle price just came down to the normal $9.99 from having been somewhere around $16 previously. I waited until the price dropped.

Unfortunately, I do not have HBO, so I can't watch this mini-series. I'll have to wait for the DVD.

[Sgt Leprechaun]

Without speaking too much out of turn, I've recently been in contact with someone who has a pretty good inside bit of knowledge on this series. After watching it myself (and I continue to do so), I asked this VERY knowledgeable, retired Marine, who does consulting work and has worked in the movies before, about some of the inconsistencies I'd noted. I'll paraphrase his VERY long rant as best I can here:

1: NO Marines were used as technical advisors for the film. Zero. Nada.

2: NO "direct knowledge" veterans, who actually served WITH Sledge, Leckie, et al, were interviewed. If you watch the 'veteran interviews' done in the beginning, you'll note that none are named, and no units are mentioned. Furthermore, NO veterans who served with Sledge, Leckie, et al, were used as technical advisors during the movie. (This is in direct contrast with 'BoB'...and it shows).

3: Hugh Ambrose (who never served) got the Pacific 'story' from the book rights, bought by Spielberg (Sledge and Leckie), and re-wrote them into a more 'sellable' story. This was then taken by scriptwriters who again re-wrote what had already been re-written.....and the script has been re-done several times. Unlike BoB, where only one book 'drove' the show, and the veterans were all still alive and had a great deal of control over their characters and how they acted....Leckie and Sledge are both deceased, and every effort was made to avoid involving ANY veterans in the production on any side.

Thus...you have the muddled screenplay, the technical errors, and the fudging of timelines, etc. all to make a 'good story'. (Case in point....when the Marines first land in Melbourne...notice how dirty and scuzzed up they are? What, they just hopped on the ship direct from the 'Canal, and in 32 minutes, arrived, still dirty, torn, and worn, with nary time to shave, shower or even unload weapons????).

That's just one of many errors and issues.

It's a shame, really.

[MIKECHRY]

What About Dale Dye? He's A Retired Marine Captain And Has Consulted On Many Military Films. He's Listed On "the Pacific" As Well.

[Garyius]

Rupurtus has not been treated kindly by historians. I think for good reasons, but I also wasn't there. <br />
<br />
Puller also comes off poorly for his actions on that island. Hoffman tried to defend him in...

[jetdawgg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkAlsF0RvP0

[Lynn2]

Without speaking too much out of turn, I've recently been in contact with someone who has a pretty good inside bit of knowledge on this series. After watching it myself (and I continue to do so), I asked this VERY knowledgeable, retired Marine, who does consulting work and has worked in the movies before, about some of the inconsistencies I'd noted. I'll paraphrase his VERY long rant as best I can here:

1: NO Marines were used as technical advisors for the film. Zero. Nada.

2: NO "direct knowledge" veterans, who actually served WITH Sledge, Leckie, et al, were interviewed. If you watch the 'veteran interviews' done in the beginning, you'll note that none are named, and no units are mentioned. Furthermore, NO veterans who served with Sledge, Leckie, et al, were used as technical advisors during the movie. (This is in direct contrast with 'BoB'...and it shows).

3: Hugh Ambrose (who never served) got the Pacific 'story' from the book rights, bought by Spielberg (Sledge and Leckie), and re-wrote them into a more 'sellable' story. This was then taken by scriptwriters who again re-wrote what had already been re-written.....and the script has been re-done several times. Unlike BoB, where only one book 'drove' the show, and the veterans were all still alive and had a great deal of control over their characters and how they acted....Leckie and Sledge are both deceased, and every effort was made to avoid involving ANY veterans in the production on any side.

Thus...you have the muddled screenplay, the technical errors, and the fudging of timelines, etc. all to make a 'good story'. (Case in point....when the Marines first land in Melbourne...notice how dirty and scuzzed up they are? What, they just hopped on the ship direct from the 'Canal, and in 32 minutes, arrived, still dirty, torn, and worn, with nary time to shave, shower or even unload weapons????).

That's just one of many errors and issues.

It's a shame, really.

#1. I have a blog, which I can post here, that was done week by week during the making of this series by THE MARINE that was the senior tech advisor for this series. Capt Dale Dye USMC and his Warriors INC.

Dale posted at each and every turn during the making taking about the unifoms, the battles, the dual filming that went on etc etc etc.

#2. Those guys in BoB that were interviewed at the start of each epi did not serve as Tech advisors. And they were never identified either as to who they were until the end of the show. Just like The Pacific.

They may have had input as far as answering questions. Those old men were not the advisors. Same with The Pacific. I do not know who all those Marines are that are being interviewed (we will at the end of the series) but they did in fact serve in those battles.

And at least one of them, Sid Phillips, served with both Leckie and Sledge. A good friend of Leckie. Best friend and best man of Sledge. And Doctor Sid spent hours and hours on the phone with the actor playing him talking about big things and little things so he could get his performance correct. (I have a link for this also) And then Phillips joined the cast during the shooting.

#3 This series is in no way based on the Ambrose book. It is based on 3 books with some additional material used as a supplement.

The Leckie book Helmet for My Pillow. The Sledge book With the Old Breed. And a book written about not by Manila John.

You should at least read Helmet. You will read Leckie write of going on "leave" in the exact same uniforms that were shown on epi #3. Dirty grungy uniforms. They had at that time no replacement uniforms. And when they did come they were a crazy mismash of uniforms never to be seen worn again.

I would say that your friend is completely and totally off base here. And the claim that no vets were used in the production of this series is about as wrong as wrong can be.

[Lynn2]

I will also say having read both the Leckie and Sledge books (something I strongly suggest you do) is that they are nailing those books dead on.

Sure they have to condense things. Sure they leave out stuff. But in fact they have stayed remarkably close to the books. Books written by the Marines who fought the battle.

Its small changes. The Doc who warns the Marines about posioned coconuts on the Canal? That was a line said by a Marine Cpl not a Doc. One guy who was killed on Pel was actually killed on Oki. But there was an excellent reason for changing where he died.

The gal Leckie falls in love with in AUS was a married gal. The relationship ended but for different reasons than shown on the series.

Small changes. But not important changes.

I have seen a lot of Marines and civilians claim they have seen major mistakes. I have yet to see one of these major mistakes prove to be mistakes in fact.

Which just proves what a great job Dale and his Warriors Inc have done.

I wish they had an additional 10 hours. Then they could have included more and left out less.

[Lynn2]

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54257

Here is the Dale Dye blog about the making of the series.

[Lynn2]

http://www.marinesidphillips.com/robert-leckie.htm

Here is Dr Sid Phillips. Hit the right link up top and an interview will be found. He talks about Leckie, Sledge, etc.

And as any one who is watching the series can tell Sid is in fact one of those talking heads at the start at each episode.

[Lynn2]

Now I have spent a fair amount of time on line reading peoples reactions to the series. The people who claim one mistake after another fall into two different camps.

One is those who have never been in extensive ugly combat.

They seem to want to see these Marines leaping to their feet with BAR in one hand and their 38 in another blasting away without fear. The fact that some of these kids might go bonkers from terror and overload is seen as some anti-american plot to show our Marines in a poor light.

People seem to want to see a different side of combat than what the Marines actually saw and lived through on those islands.

The 2nd is people who have never read the books.

They can go on and on about how this would have never happened in their Corps. But if they had picked up a copy of the books and read them they would see that the scenes they claim would never happen, are coming right out of the books written by the combat Marines themselves.

[USNAviator]

Lynn2

Enjoyed post #'s 77-81. Well researched and presented. I read Leckie's book many years ago and I may be wrong but I don't believe he named any of his fellow Marines? I do recall reading a subsequent book by him in which he does name them all. Does this sound familiar to you? I'm just curious

Dan

[Lynn2]

Lynn2

Enjoyed post #'s 77-81. Well researched and presented. I read Leckie's book many years ago and I may be wrong but I don't believe he named any of his fellow Marines? I do recall reading a subsequent book by him in which he does name them all. Does this sound familiar to you? I'm just curious

Dan

Dan you are correct about him not using real names. More Lt Commando, the Kid (Gibson who chokes that Jap to death) etc. For instance he talks about Gunny Haney but never uses his name.

I have a 2nd Leckie book I am going to start soon (Strong Men Armed-an over view of the Marines in WW2). But he wrote somewhere over 30 different books.

[USNAviator]

"I have a 2nd Leckie book I am going to start soon (Strong Men Armed-an over view of the Marines in WW2). But he wrote somewhere over 30 different books."

Strong Men Armed is I believe the book in which he names his fellow Marines. I have read several of his book, mainly dealing with 20th century history

I have not seen the HBO series, don't subscribe to cable. Does it mention Al Schmidt from the Canal?. Schmidt and Lee Diamond were awarded the Navy Cross for their action

Thanks for the info. I'm sure you'll enjoy Strong Men Armed

Dan

[Lynn2]

"Does it mention Al Schmidt from the Canal?. Schmidt and Lee Diamond were awarded the Navy Cross for their action"

Nope. It really takes a focused approach to this. They are following 3 different Marines through the battles they were engaged in. That and nothing else. No Raiders, no Army. No Wing. So what you get is all the 1stMarDiv's actions from an enlisted grunts view plus Iwo and Manila John.

To get the full flavor of this series you really have to do your home work. And there are so many out their complaining on-line that H&S did not dumb this down for them.

Who gave John his MOH? They never once tell you they only show you. You would have to know its General Vandergrift. I like that approach. It makes me do some research. It forces me to read.

People who do not do their research may still enjoy the series. They just miss much of what is going on.

[USNAviator]

"Nope. It really takes a focused approach to this. They are following 3 different Marines through the battles they were engaged in. That and nothing else. No Raiders, no Army. No Wing. So what you get is all the 1stMarDiv's actions from an enlisted grunts view plus Iwo and Manila John."

Sounds like a good approach to me. I'll most likely pick it up when it hits the DVD market.

A few months back I posted that James Brady had written an biography of Manila John entitled "Hero of the Pacific" Just thought I'd pass it along

Thanks for the info

[ameriken]

Tonites episode was pretty intense.

[jetdawgg]

Getting more emotional as the fighting intensifies.

Great scenes:

The Marine who as killed due to leaving his fighting hole
Sledge killing the Samurai
Sledge peeping in on the Orange Juice Server
The Marine using the cave for a head call

Gotta love the USMC:usmc:

[William Hardy]

The series isn't as well done as BoB. I wish they would have extended it to include a couple of episodes on the Raiders, and the role of the Marine Aviation (important developments in close air support). I was a bit disappointed in not seeing recruit training or how they Maines were formed into their units. They seemed to have skipped most of the first year. This was important enough in BoB and should have been important in Pacific. We have a number of Marines on this site that were there....I would be interested in their views.

Overall...I would rate this series as very good....I wish it had the same heart as BoB so I could rate it outstanding.

So when are they going to do Korea? Vietnam?

I wish I could get a PG version to show my students.

[jetdawgg]

@William Hardy

Ameriken addressed some of the issues that we are up against here vs BoB in a private conversation. I do agree with you though that the series is outstanding in spite of the severe shortcomings like boot camp and forming.

Things that are generally seen in the two hour movie versions of many USMC flicks (Full Metal Jacket). Maybe Time Warner had budget issues on this series. Those sets look very realistic. The You Tube I posted in from that battle on Pel,

As for Korea and Vietnam, maybe we can petition Showtime:usmc::D

[Lynn2]

Budget issues? This at 250 million dollars is the most expensive TV event ever.

Boot camp is not touched on IMO because neither Lucky nor Sledge wrote much about it.

We are only seeing this series through the eyes of 3 different enlisted infantry Marines. That and only that.

You can come up with a list of 814 different things that should have been included in an additional 20 episodes. But this is an enlisted Marine grunts eye look at these invasions and nothing else.

No Raiders. No Wing. No Pogues. Not much on the Corpsman. Not much on the Officers. Nothing on the plans or the big picture.

Just a grunts eye view of dirty combat. Good for them I say for taking this approach. Its the best look at what happens to a combat man I have seen this side of being there myself.

Intense hour for sure

[DocGreek]

LYNN2......:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

[Lynn2]

Getting more emotional as the fighting intensifies.

Great scenes:

The Marine who as killed due to leaving his fighting hole
Sledge killing the Samurai
Sledge peeping in on the Orange Juice Server
The Marine using the cave for a head call

Gotta love the USMC:usmc:

The reaction to Ack Ack's death. I knew it was coming. I had read about how it hit Sledge and the Company. I still had a tough time when it happened.

Hill Billy Jones also. Two much beloved Officers.

Sledge said the death of the Capt (he peeked up over a boulder to get a better look) was the toughest death of all the many he had to deal with. Decades later it still haunted him. Like losing a father.

The look on Sledge at the RedCross table. This may be the best expression of BTDTness I have ever seen on film in my life. That look was truly haunting.

The face of Gunny Haney before they took him to the rear.

Some truly great stuff.

Hard to watch though. But watch it a 2nd or 3rd time I will.

Really tough fockers they were

[Lynn2]

Comparing the Pacific to BoB is like those apples and oranges. Two completely different things.

If you want a nice over view of what happened to a company in the ETO then BoB is hard to beat. And a tip of the hat to H&S and Capt Dye and his people for doing that one.


But rarely did I watch that series and think....."there is what I lived through" At times I did. But in fact I was more entertained than reminded.

Not so with the Pacific. I am NOT comparing anything I saw in VN to what Sledge and Lucky went through. But if you want a flavor of what it was like to be a VN enlisted grunt then watch the Pacific and not BoB.

Because BoB does not hold a candle to the Pacific when it comes to showing how bad combat can be for the guy at the tip. Dark, ugly, brutal, and dirty.

Great entertainment it may not be for some. Our story, for those BTDT guys at the tip, it is.

[Zulu 36]

The series isn't as well done as BoB. I wish they would have extended it to include a couple of episodes on the Raiders, and the role of the Marine Aviation (important developments in close air support). I was a bit disappointed in not seeing recruit training or how they Maines were formed into their units. They seemed to have skipped most of the first year. This was important enough in BoB and should have been important in Pacific. We have a number of Marines on this site that were there....I would be interested in their views.

Overall...I would rate this series as very good....I wish it had the same heart as BoB so I could rate it outstanding.

So when are they going to do Korea? Vietnam?

I wish I could get a PG version to show my students.

PG version? No, they need to see it unedited. Any other way is not telling the truth. They're better off not seeing it at all otherwise.

[Bdchi1]

Lynn2:

Thank you for the additional information you are providing. I believe most, if not all, of us on this site see each episode differently than the mainstream HBO viewers.

As a Marine, I don't need the "in-between-the-lines" relationships (BoB) filled in to know that there was a strong bond between these Grunts. Nor did I really want to see that in this mini-series. I feel they did a damned good job of showing the true horrow (and all other emotions) of combat in the PTO.

I also think that the mainstream HBO viewer is seeing this series as less-enjoyable from the standpoint of relationships (e.g., best friends, etc...) that was provided in the BoB series (hence the title: BoB). I hear my colleagues at working talking about this very issue. I pretty much keep my mouth shut on that issue because they're not going to understand even if I tried.

Nonetheless, last night's episode was a brutal realization of what the Marines endured day-in and day-out. I was moved deeply by those very specific expressions you pointed out. Sledge at the juice table, Gunny Haney... Especially since Haney was shown as such a total bad @$$ throughout the campaign. It really put the madness up against a measuring stick with Haney's character.

I loved the BoB series, and I own it and watch it quite often. It was perfectly written and reproduced on the big screen. "The Pacific", however, has wrecked my nerves by portraying, with great chaos, the confusion and madness associated with how they had to fight on those islands. I've seen the John Wayne movies and all the rest, but these episodes bring it to a level that I never really considered. I can almost smell the body rot and decaying bodies. These episodes really reach out to all of us that have served, and these last couple of episodes have been a real kick in the teeth regarding the savagery required to survive.

Again, I wanted to thank you again for all the additional information on the series.

Keep it coming.

S/F
Bill

[jetdawgg]

@Lynn2

I don't think that the general HBO viewer had this type of intense action (combat) in mind when they first watched the series.

This can be compared to a horror show. When the Marine was cutting the teeth of the Japanese soldier while he was alive for instance. The pure brutality of that mans death is probably not seen anywhere else.

The Japanese were proud warriors having been the fabled Ninja and Samurai of lore. Then to face the fledgling US Marine Corps, a 165 year old nation at the time, it looks as though they clearly underestimated our fierce determination and more importantly our spirit.

I don't know if I have ever witnessed the USMC Espirit De Corps personified as I have witnessed it in this series. Great, realistic drama. Hard hitting and we know that there is more of this to come as Iwo Jima is coming up.

As far as the budget, we do know that a lot was spent on getting the sets as realistic as possible.

In my private conversation to Ameriken, I told him that I have a lot of pride knowing that I am part of the greatest brotherhood ever created. The legacy shown here just embellishes what I mean:usmc::iwo:

[ameriken]

I loved the BoB series, and I own it and watch it quite often. It was perfectly written and reproduced on the big screen. "The Pacific", however, has wrecked my nerves by portraying, with great chaos, the confusion and madness associated with how they had to fight on those islands. I've seen the John Wayne movies and all the rest, but these episodes bring it to a level that I never really considered. I can almost smell the body rot and decaying bodies. These episodes really reach out to all of us that have served, and these last couple of episodes have been a real kick in the teeth regarding the savagery required to survive.

Again, I wanted to thank you again for all the additional information on the series.

Keep it coming.

S/F
Bill
Well said Lynn and Bdchi1. I too own BoB and have watched it several times. The two shows are almost totally incomparable. BoB followed one specific unit from training through the end fo the war. Many of the participants were still alive to give their perspective and add a realness to their characters. With Sledge, Leckie, and Basilone, the producers didnt have that luxury and so there may be more difficulty in character development. With BoB and the focus on characters, audiences were able to fall in love with each one, which added to the likability of the show.

The Pacific is the antithesis to BoB as it was more brutal for Marines. There was no glory, no small towns welcoming soldiers after being liberated with women kissing and hanging all over the men as they marched by, no beautiful countrysides, no R&R in the great Paris, they could not go out get laid or take a warm bath, etc etc etc.

There were times when both Germans and Americans would take a temporary truce from fighting and remove the dead and wounded, whereas the Japanese killed Corpsman as they tended to their wounded. The jungle was hot, humid, muddy, infested with bugs, malaria, disentary, foot rot, etc etc etc. They were stuck on a remote island far from any civilization. No parades, no liberated towns to welcome them, little or no women, etc. Perhaps if they were lucky they'd get a little R&R in Australia as we have seen.

I am not at all meaning to diminish what our great soldiers did in Europe because the European theater was also difficult and our men did an outstanding job. My point is that IMO, the Marines were involved in a far more bloody, lonely, and savage war with little or no respite, and no civilian world to honor their achievements, and they were at war with the elements as much as they were with the Japanese. The Pacific shows this dirty, harsh reality and is far different from what we saw in BoB. For television viewing, it is not as aesthetically pleasant as BoB was, but as was said, it shows the war for what it really was.

It just amplifies the honor and respect I already had for those Marines. :iwo:

[Lynn2]

"I don't think that the general HBO viewer had this type of intense action (combat) in mind when they first watched the series."

This is one minor combat vet that had no idea how intense all this was going to be either. And I had, unlike many of the HBO viewers, read tons of stuff on these invasions. And spent some time in the field.

Knowing about the brutality and then seeing it come so casually to life is two different things.

What will be really jarring is to watch this series from the start again. Seeing Sledge on his bike as he dreams of being a Marine and then remembering what he will look like at that RC table in a few episodes.

And we still have Iwo and OKi to go.

God Bless Hanks and company. This is by far the greatest triubute to the Marine Corps that has ever been done on film. I do not expect to live long enough to ever see it done better or with more honesty truly brutal honesty.

It literally makes me weep. But I swell with pride I cannot describe.

God what an organization.

[Troutzilla]

As the units were rotating into and out of the fight the looks and comments made between the two units really stood out for me. Seeing Chesty and his 7th Marines coming out of the fight and his men offering words of encouragement to the 1st Marines heading into the fight knowing the hell that awaited their Brothers struck me as a Semper Fi moment if I ever saw one.
The combat scenes are well thought out and acted. The hit's and wounds that are being shown are very realistic and show just how ugly and brutal combat truly is. It's quite intense to sit and watch it...at times I feel myself gripping the arm rests on my chair harder and harder.

GREAT SERIES !!!!

Semper Fi
Trout

:flag:

[Sheila Hays]

I watched last nights episode, I felt the agony those Marines were going thru, I have never been in combat. I hope and pray I never will be, the Marine throwing stones into the brain of that dead Jap. The Marine dropping his utilities to go to the toilet. Even I wouldn't have done that, but he felt it was safe. They called their utilities, "dungarees", now they wear cammies. Those Marines went thru hell on those Islands, but thats what Marines do best.
We are the best, the elite. Semper Fi Sheila Hays

[Lynn2]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/25/stephen-ambrose-eisenhower-biography-scandal

And speaking of BoB. Give me a grunt written book anytime.

This is the 2nd time Stephen Ambrose has gotten caught up in an alleged incident such as this (The Wild Blue)

[jetdawgg]

http://img.slate.com/media/33/020111_StephenAmbrose.jpg
http://blogs.indystar.com/varvelblog/06132006a.jpg

[Garyius]

Any of you guys read Sledge's other book? Very interesting about duty in China after the war. He good a nice job explaining what was going on, and even though he was ****ed he got sent there he still wrote a great book.

The Corps is very lucky that a Marine as good at writing as he was was also sober his whole time in the service.

[William Hardy]

There are several WWII era vets around here. I wish they would post their comments. Being there and watching the series beats anything we have to say about it. You reading this Ray? Ray was a member of the Raiders. He wrote a book about his time in the Pacific which I have read. I would be interested in hearing about how he and the other of the "Greatest Generation" feel about the series.

[jetdawgg]

For those who have missed the first seven hours of HBO's 10-hour miniseries "The Pacific," let me catch you up.

I'm joining up . . . What the hell is Guadalcanal? . . . Men, let's kill us some Nips . . . RATatatatat BRRRAAAM! . . . It wasn't that they had their flesh torn. It was that they had their souls torn out. . . . Take some R & R in Melbourne, men . . . What the hell is New Britain . . . Rain, rain, rain. Pavuvu . . . Pelelieu . . . Crusty sergeants . . . suicidal Japs . . . naifs baptized in their friends' blood . . . bad chow . . . scary nights . . . sucking chest wounds . . .

Despite executive producer/narrator Tom Hanks' strange declaration that he saw WWII in the Pacific as a racial beef with lots of hurtful intolerance on both sides ("We . . . wanted to annihilate them because they were different." Yeah, either that or because they were, y'know, dropping bombs on our troops' heads), "The Pacific" turns out not to be a revisionist history.

It isn't a sweeping fictionalized overview on the theater (of the two commanders whose flame-broiled rivalry would make an excellent film, Douglas MacArthur barely gets a mention and Adm. Chester Nimitz, unless I missed something, hasn't come up at all).

It isn't solicitous of the Japanese viewpoint or blinded by patriotism, it isn't doubting either of savagery or of courage, it isn't . . . anything.

Except big. Admirable as the production values are, and laudable as is the goal of making the military's accomplishments in the Pacific theater vivid and visceral . . . humanizing the scale by routing it through the eyes of three Marines means everything depends on how well they are realized.

Yet at any moment, you may tune in and be reassured that Pfc. Bob Leckie (James Badge Dale) will be sardonic, rebellious and a little wounded inside; that Cpl. Eugene Sledge (Joseph Mazzello) will be a heartbreaking innocent who never should have been exposed to such brutality; and that Gy. Sgt. John Basilone (Jon Seda) will be a can-do straight arrow vaguely disillusioned by every variety of cynicism.

By far the most compelling part of each episode is its opening, when actual veterans share battle memories with a grace and sadness that knows no bottom.

The plain and humble way these men talk bears little relation to the dialogue, which has been needlessly bulked up in the screenplay gym to carry extra dramatic weight.

Making a film about even half of WWII is a task like the one facing the desperately tired men in Norman Mailer's "The Naked and the Dead," the ones forever trying to push that artillery piece one more inch up that muddy hill.

How do you force this beast forward? The invasion of Peleliu is one of the most excruciatingly real scenes ever made for television, but it's impossible not to think of the even better equivalent in "Saving Private Ryan."

The way famous troops were involuntarily enlisted in War Bonds tours already got its own film -- "Flags of Our Fathers."

Leathernecks swearing, stealing the officers' cigars and saying "I believe in ammunition" instead of God? Been there, invaded that.

Once or twice in each episode, there's a moment that rings with a gruesome truth -- such as in the seventh hour, when a Marine carelessly pitched pebbles into the open cranium of a dead Japanese.

But the series has no crucial center -- no unforgettable character like Alec Guinness's Col. Nicholson in "The Bridge on the River Kwai," no personal style (even the mad reveries of "The Thin Red Line" would have been something), no gift for seeing things fresh.

"The Pacific" is sobering, but it's hardly ever surprising.


http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/where_pacific_went_xatGNyaBRZk14LxfwSOmiK#ixzz0mcn zP9xJ

[Lynn2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVSpp8GNFxI

Some "expert" said there were no Marines, who served with Sledge and Leckie, interviewed for this series? Here is a 2nd one in the link above.

Although do not watch it if you are still trying to guess who these Marines are.

[Milmart]

I have seen a lot of Marines and civilians claim they have seen major mistakes. I have yet to see one of these major mistakes prove to be mistakes in fact.

Hi

The emblem for Camp Pendleton is upside down.

[William Hardy]

It doesn't need to be 100% accurate. It needs to be historically acurate and entertaining. Some things need to be stretched out and other things need to be cut out. While I personally wished they had included the airwing and the Raiders, it is still a very good series. Why some of you want to find every little flaw is beyond me.
Semper Fi

[jetdawgg]

@William Hardy

The comparison to BoB is making the series hard for most people to follow. Thus the high rate of criticism:usmc:

[carrvy1]

I'm not picky, I just sit down and enjoy my beer
while watching the show.

One thing that has happened, is that some of my
Swabbie friends told me they will never again cut
down a Marine.:thumbup:

[Lynn2]

"The comparison to BoB is making the series hard for most people to follow"

Historically based fiction vs the more true to life. That is why people love BoB so much.

Ambrose created a perfect company. Sure he had Sobel and that other incompetent coward of an officer. But other than that he created the nicest, most loyal, most gung ho, group of great guys you'd ever want to meet. None ever threatened to kill their officers. None except for one time killed a team mate, none ever **** their pants. And the only truly questionable act of a war crime was nothing more than a myth (speers) These guys were as perfect as you could ask for.

Unlike those psycho Marines like Snafu and Gibson and now Sledge, and that hater and whiner Leckie.

Its the reading I have been doing about the large number of times S Ambrose committed proven plagiarism or in the case of the Ike book just totally lied and made stuff up. No wonder those Easy company guys were so perfect. Ambrose wanted it this way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Ambrose#Plagiarism_controversy (there is a lot more on this if you google)

And before you say that the guys of Easy would not stand for this. The reality is we complain about inaccuracies when people write bad stuff about us or our organization. When they write good stuff and make us look like Saints we sort of gloss over any important stuff left out or regular guys made to look far better than they did in real life.

The Pacific suffers in comparison because its real combat guys (who can be totally pieces of crap---BTDT) vs those perfect guys of Easy.

I could never read another Ambrose book without thinking of the things he lied about and made up or stole from others as he wrote his books.

[Gunner 0313]

:flag:I've watched the first four episodes so far and I hate to say it but Band of Brothers smoked this series. It's good but IMO it doesn't touch BoB.

[ameriken]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVSpp8GNFxI

Some "expert" said there were no Marines, who served with Sledge and Leckie, interviewed for this series? Here is a 2nd one in the link above.

Although do not watch it if you are still trying to guess who these Marines are.
When asked what's so special about the Marines, RV nailed it: "We bond, I think, better than any other branch of the service." :iwo:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

I just can't say I'm a 'fan'. Quite frankly, while I think there are good things about the series, there are not so good things as well. I liked the Basilone episode...but I also noted that Sgt Basilone is wearing what appears to be 2 campaign stars on his Asiatic Pacific ribbon (when I saw the ribbon, several times as he's home, back at Pendleton, etc). I could easily be wrong, but unless one of those is a landing arrowhead, from what I know of his service, he should only have 'one' campaign star for Guadalcanal. Yes, I know it's nitpicky...but dangit...

One other thing I've seen, and not sure why this is, but has anyone else noticed the way the HBT's are, literally, hanging off the actors like 'baggies'?? As the owner of multiple pairs of these things from WWII, and seeing tons of pics of them being worn...most of the time, they just don't look like that. Is it to give the impression the Marines are starving/sick/etc? Or did the costume guy/girl just have them made 'big'? (FYI, if anyone is out in California, near the big military vehicle show this upcoming weekend, I understand quite a few of the HBT's will be on sale there).

I WANTED this series to be as good (or hopefully better) than BoB. It's the ONLY reason I even have HBO.

It's not. Not IMO, anyway. (And yes, I've read the books by Sledge and Leckie, although both were some time ago).

I'm not going to sugarcoat it or try to paint it better than it is, unlike you, Lynn (and this should NOT be taken as a personal attack) but I swear you sound like someone whose working for the production company or another outfit associated with the film. If not, you darned well should be getting paid.

Is it a 'good' series? Sure. But is it 'as good' as BoB? I don't think so. I never missed an episode of BoB...but with this series, it's more like "Well, I'll catch it again later".

Kudos for a nice try.

[Lynn2]

"I'm not going to sugarcoat it or try to paint it better than it is, unlike you, Lynn (and this should NOT be taken as a personal attack) but I swear you sound like someone whose working for the production company or another outfit associated with the film. If not, you darned well should be getting paid."

Darn brother I wish I was getting paid. And I do not take it as an attack at all. I do enjoy debating these things.

I am just a combat vet. And because of that combat experience I can see a lot of my time and my Marines in these guys. I see what appears to be a totally honest presentation of Marines in combat.

As opposed to that very well done but IMO fictional presentation of BoB the book that was turned into a very good and enjoyable series. Just not a totally honest one.

I am sure as soon as I post this 13 combat vets will come out of the wood work to disagree with me. But its been the civilians, the other services like the AF, and non combat vets that have the most problem with this series.

The combat guys tend to see this series different than the non combat guys..... generally. I am basing this on other forums where this has been discussed at length. And the gap on those forums is like night and day.

So unless I am wrong its basicly small tit picky stuff like the medals being worn wrong that you have a problem with?

Now you posted a nice post a while back on why you did not like the series. But the info you had in there was completely and totally wrong. (that is also not a personal attack and should not be read that way)

This series is the most honest presentation of combat I have ever seen this side of the real thing. That is why I love it. It honors those who have done. All of us who have done. By showing what it is really like.

Soiled pants and all

[jetdawgg]

@Lynn2

Americans kinda watch tv to escape from reality. I know that BoB has historical inaccuracies. but it was a lot more popular than 'The Pacific".

I never watched BoB. Not one episode, not 5 minutes of any episode. So I cannot compare it to 'TP'. I have been told these things by many people who have watched both series.

I may not like what they are saying or even want to agree with them. I just respect what they state. It is their thought and it is also the prevalent thought.

I just happen to enjoy the show and how the Marines in the series are interacting. The combat is as mean as I thought it would be. I really don't mind seeing that action.

If you are getting paid how splitting a case with us here?:beer::usmc:

[Sgt Leprechaun]

LOL. Glad you took that for what it was (debate) and not for some sort of 'slam' or anything else. Too bad you aren't getting paid, though.... You do a fine job.

I sort of approach movies as an 'amateur critic', because, well, I just like movies. (Full disclosure, I love Ebert even though he's an absolute leftwing moooroon...he's a great critic). I enjoy seeing the 'behind the scenes' stuff, how things are made, and the thought processes that actually create the film. Now, admittedly, like all of us, I like some 'stinker' movies that others don't. But I try to give all of them an even shake (that I watch). This one is no different for me, although I knew I was biased going in, and I was going to hold it up to, perhaps, a standard it could not meet. (BoB). I'm a nitpicky SOB when it comes to stuff like uniforms, ribbons, etc and I'll be the first to admit that.

Moving on from there....I'm not a combat vet. At least, not in the sense of many 'round these parts. However, I was at the Pentagon on 9/11, and prior to that, spent five years working a 'combat car' (the departments term not mine) in the Metro DC area as a 'street' police. I did Kosovo in '99, and 2 WestPac's in the 80's. I'm not a 'stateside' Marine by anyones imagination. While certainly not Khe Sanh or Fallujah, I've been shot at (and missed) my fair share of times. That means absolutely nothing compared to what these Marines went through at Guadalcanal or Iwo, nor should it. But that's my small bit regarding that.

The small nitpicky stuff, to answer that, is, yes, to a certain extent, what drives me crazy (not the only thing) because those are things that are reasonably simple to get right, with little or no effort execpt for some research. Other issues I have with the series are character development, screenplay, and continuity.

The combat scenes I like, as much as I'm able (they do tend to activate my own PTSD issues, so that should tell you that I think they are pretty good), but 'good explosions' does not always a 'good movie' make.

[Lynn2]

Well as far as BoB I have made my point a time or two. Steve Ambrose was a dishonest writer. He stole from others and he made crap totally up. He did it in his other books I have no reason to doubt he just stopped doing that with BoB. That to me is why BoB was so perfect.

And it pains me so much to say that because I did enjoy BoB the book and series so much. Even though in the back of my mind I knew something was missing.

But it was not til TP that I realized what it was.

Honesty.

They sugar coated the combat experience and made normal guys into friggin saints. Not just saints but great guys who were saints.

BoB was the way we wish combat was. Great guys. Great officers. Nobility and good cheer. The Pacific is the way it was.

Perfect? Not at all. In 10 hours of a film dealing with 60+ year old events I am sure a mistake or two has been made. But not very many.

And I will be darned if I will slam them for "maybe" getting a medal wrong.

You know Sgt these debates are not so much fun when everyone agrees with each other.

[DocGreek]

OK, OK, well....some of us were in RVN in the Spring/Summer/Fall, and temp's in the 100's, 8 foot Saw/Elephant grass, crappy Company management, not enough food and water, and when it started to rain....having to "stroll" through the bush at NIGHT, and falling into NVA ambushes/snipers, was quite similar to what WWII Marines went through, except that "WE" weren't mortared on a daily basis.
How's that for a looooong, "winded" sentence??
SEMPER FI.....to every Marine and FMF Doc, that served then, and since then.

[ameriken]

But it was not til TP that I realized what it was.

Honesty.

They sugar coated the combat experience and made normal guys into friggin saints. Not just saints but great guys who were saints.

BoB was the way we wish combat was. Great guys. Great officers. Nobility and good cheer. The Pacific is the way it was.


Bingo.

And there is no way I can see sugarcoating Guadalcanal or Peleliu. I can never imagine being on GC, outnumbered, with limited ammo, food, and water; and then waking up knowing your entire Naval support got it's butt slapped and fled the scene leaving you all alone on this unknown shiithole of a bug infested, disease riddled island in the middle of fvcking no where. No barn to hide in with a Dad and daughter to tend to your wound; no victory parades; no homes to raid for your next bottle of whiskey.

BoB propped up the war to show there was perhaps some sort of humanity or even glory in war, while The Pacific is showing the nasty, dirty hell that the Marines went through in it's purest, rawest honesty. Watching that Marine throw stones into the skull of that dead soldier to pass the time away is not going to endear viewers in the same manner which BoB did, where perhaps the most offensive thing these soldiers did was a group of NCO's effectively declaring mutiny by refusing to follow Sobel.

[jetdawgg]

@ameriken

Marines are truly a different breed:usmc:

[Lynn2]

In BoB written by a non combat vet the NCO's and Officers are generally great people , at least after they get to combat, with only one exception.

Competent, brave, and looking out for their people pretty much all the time. Whats not to like about any of them?

If you read these 4 non fiction writers who are all combat vets---Paul Fuscell (sp) talking about his combat in the ETO as an officer and Leckie, Sledge, and Manchester talking about their war in the PTO as enlisted you get a much different picture.

Not all of their Officers and NCO's are as perfect.

Some of the Officers and NCO's in these combat vet written books are azzholes, mean, liars, borderline nuts , incompetent, can't hold up to prolong combat and cowards.

Not all of them are ready for the Combat Hall of Fame like the BoB boys.

I think Ambrose worshiped those old guys. And he set out to build a memorial to them.

The 4 combat vets want to tell us their true story warts and all.

In both cases BoB and TP I think H&S and Dye translated and captured the authors works about as well as it can be done.

[jetdawgg]

@Lynn2

American viewers don't understand the level of violence that those Marines and Marines in general face. Always the toughest battles even today:usmc::iwo:

I felt the death of Gy Basilone. He is one of my favorite Marines. The look of shock and horror on the faces of those young Marines was clearly a sight. I can't wait to watch it again tonite.

Critical acclaim is one thing, but I prefer the reality of the battles:usmc:

[jetdawgg]

An extra 5 minutes tonite. Looks like it will be interesting as the Marines continue to have morality issues:usmc:

[jetdawgg]

This is an unusually harsh series. American viewers just do not like to see the harshness that it takes to be a Marine. It does not look like much fun. In fact it can be said that it is hard to be one of us.

I could feel the drama as the Marine stood up and fired upon the Japanese without even seeing them. The other Marines tried to pull him back and one wound up dead/ I could empathize fully with Sledge on that one.

I think that I would have been busting him a new @ss too. He got a Marine killed because of his stupidity.

Marines are some very mean individuals and this is one time that America gets a chance to view us up close and personal. America has chosen not to watch.

Could it be that America is getting soft?:iwo::usmc:

[Lisa 23]

Hey there AlexJH, you're posting in the wrong forum.
Open Squad Bay is for Marines only.

[Bdchi1]

I wouldn't bash the guys in Easy company, they were really friggin' good guys. One of the less known guys from the series, and one of the most popular guys in the unit, Jim Alley(may he rest in peace) helped my family build our lumber yard. He didn't talk about the war very much, but a lot of the stuff he talked about was very similar to what was portrayed in BoB. He obviously brought a more personal touch to it, but he always raved about Winters being a great combat leader and the NCO's.

Does BoB polish over some realities of war? Yeah, probably, but don't doubt the quality of men who actually fought in Easy company.


Alex -- in addition to what WMarine said...if you read this entire thread you'll see that we do not bash the MEN of BoB. In fact, I don't think a single negative thing has been said about the MEN of BoB. I will say that Ambrose has been attacked a few times, but not the MEN. Hell, those men were great for what they did for each other, their Country and the World, but none of that changes the debate here about the harshness being portrayed by The Pacific versus that of BoB. The BoB was a phenominally pieced together series that the general public (civilians) was capable of digesting. That is in stark contrast to what the general public is getting from The Pacific.

Now, ease up on what you are suggesting we do or don't do in this forum. In fact, you are absolutely right...you "wouldn't bash" and shouldn't bash anyone until you've served a day or two with some ground pounding shock troops.

[William Hardy]

Rough episode. Those Marines on Oki had a hard fight. For me, this was the best episode to-date. Can't believe it is so short...there is a lot that has been left out.
Semper Fi

[FistFu68]

:usmc: "For those of US Who fought for it Life has a certain Flavor the Protected will Never Know" S/F :usmc: :iwo:

[Lynn2]

Rough episode. Those Marines on Oki had a hard fight. For me, this was the best episode to-date. Can't believe it is so short...there is a lot that has been left out.
Semper Fi


I was wondering how they were going to cover this part of the series.

I am just finishing the Sledge book (again) and I found the Oki part to be a lot different than the first part of his book. Like a depressing ultra-ultra-marathon. Almost nothing that was uplifting.

Death, mud, death, mud, death, mud, terror, death, mud, terror.

And I found last night to be more of the same. I am in fact glad we are done pretty much with Oki. I am tired of seeing those Marines going through what they went through.

It may be my age but I was so wrung out at 10:00 last night I could hardly get out of the chair.

[Troutzilla]

:usmc: "For those of US Who fought for it Life has a certain Flavor the Protected will Never Know" S/F :usmc: :iwo:


No truer words have ever been spoken Jack.......

Semper Fi
Trout

[jetdawgg]

@Lynn2

And don't forget the horror. When sledge slid down the hill and fell into the maggot infested corpse. Just pure horror:usmc:

[Lynn2]

An interesting blog from one of the creators of BoB and TP. (I will post the link in a sec)

"We don't show the men in Band doing things that were pretty shocking. Spiers, for instance, was shot in the ass in Holland and the very strong rumor was that he was shot intentionally by a member of Easy Company (and yes, I know who may have done it)."

Also for you out there that say they got the death of Manila John wrong. The official medical report on his death....death by gun shot wound.

[Lynn2]

http://makingof.com/blog/artist/333/bruce-c/mckenna

Enjoy

[jetdawgg]

Lynn2,

It is Marines like you that make me proud to be a Marine

SF:usmc:

[Lynn2]

Lynn2,

It is Marines like you that make me proud to be a Marine

SF:usmc:

LOL....Jet its Marines like you that make me proud to be a------ FMF Doc

Thanks

[jetdawgg]

@Lynn2

Just a very serious brotherhood. Nothing like it anywhere.

The site you linked here shows that the American viewers cannot take the harshness of the series on tv, yet the Marines had to endure it.

Imagine, the American viewer is growing weary of WATCHING war scenes:sick::usmc:

[Lynn2]

I realize for many that Gunny Haney was a favorite in this series. Old Corps for sure. But this quote from that blog I posted says Old Corps about as well as can be said:

"As for Haney. He was bounced up and down from Gunny to plain Sergeant several times during the war (and passed from Company to company -- which ought to tell you something). He's wearing Staff Sergeant...but he might not have actually been a Staff Sergeant on Peleliu."

[USNAviator]

I have a friend whose Dad is a big time cinematographer. He's worked with Lucas, Spielberg etc. The word around Tinseltown is that Spielberg/Hanks next project will be Air Corp/Force based in England during 1944-45.

They are talking with Chuck Yeager, Bob Hoover and Bud Anderson, all fighter pilots. Well they better hurry since all three are well into their 80's. Just thought I'd pass it on

Dan

[ameriken]

Tonite is the final episode. This has been an excellent series. Once I got past trying to relate and compare it BoB, I gained a new appreciation for it. I like it's raw honesty.

Episode 9 was pretty heavy and quite upsetting. My wife told me my jaw was on the floor through most of the show. I now have an even higher regard, respectm and appreciation for what our Brothers did during WWII, as well as all other wars. :iwo:

[kaelobo]

MY father was over there,as me and my brothers grew up. we never could figure out why he was so angry,violent,he had a bad day everyday, had his hidden wooden case inside were the samurai sword ,gold teeth along with wallets and flags,and maps coins-paper money, if he caught us in the that box .sht wholly ****. when we were kids he was never happy.beat us with his hand or buckle,never seen him happy, he was a big hero of the neighborhood of mt Washington,Pittsburgh Pa.he and my Mon born in Ireland.came over on the boat.Ellis island, he was a mean man. there is a plack top of incline,his name along with about twenty other for there heroics ,over there. while we got older ,the box disappeared,the sword hung around,SAD thing is battle fatigue/ptsd he was all fck up there wasn't any treatment at the va, his brother was in tank unit got a direct hit motor he was shell shock end up in va hospital he received shock treatment, they found him dead in a city alley. not until i went to Vietnam. did i respect and understand my father GOD rest his soul, I would like to say to all who has served,thank you, and to the ones that suffer like my Father and I, GOD BLESS YOU ALL brothers.......................................... ..usmc

[ameriken]

Part 10: The cab driver nailed a big difference between what the Army went through in Europe, and what the Marines went through in the Pacific. Upon refusing to take Leckie's tip he said: "I may have jumped into Normandy, but at least I got some liberties in London and Paris. You Gyrenes, you got nothing but jungle rot and malaria. Welcome home." :flag:

[William Hardy]

Final episode was decent. Not outstanding but decent. I still wish they had put the same effort into Pacific as they did BoB. It could have easily been expanded. No Wake Island...no Raiders...no Aviation....too much was left out. It would have been nice to see something else...I had the honor of meeting the last two enlisted pilots at MCAS Cherry Point (I believe it was in CP..could have been Beaufort...been a long, long time)..I know that one of them flew the Leer jet for the Commadant. My old Top, Master Gunnery Sergeant Giles, was a gunner on a...can't remember the name of the plane...anyway, there was a lot left out.

I have always respected the WWII era Marines...talk about being a warrior...as I said before, all of my first Staff NCO were WWII and Korean vets and they were something else.

Semper Fi

[Lynn2]

That last episode was a kick in the gut.

It brought back so many memories of my coming home from VN. The sense of unreal. Of thinking that normal life still went on. And that normal for so many people never had stopped in the first place.

The wonder why I was alive and whole and so many were not. The guilt. The nerves. The nights. Not as bad as Sledge had. But bad enough to still remember.

I have cried three times in the past 45 years.

When my first wife passed away.

When I was on my way to Arlington maybe 5 years ago to bury 4 Team Mates that had been found decades after they were killed.....as I read a wonderful Washington Post article about their last mission and the efforts to recover their bodies.

And last night. As the credits started to role.

A brilliant tribute this series was. And as brutally honest as anything I have ever seen on film.

Bless em

Doc

[jetdawgg]

Funny how most people until this series had never heard of Gy Basilone. The acting was great, Very intense. Very realistic. <br />
<br />
Overall I thought that the Pacific was a well produced production. The...

[Lynn2]

"Funny how most people until this series had never heard of Gy Basilone"

Well I sure did. I had read so many books on the Canal and Iwo over the past 50 years that I was sure I "knew him". Not a chance.

This series, rather than the many many books I have read, gave me a picture of him I will never get rid of.

This series brought him to life. It made him human and real as well.

Of course it did the same thing for me as far Leckie and Sledge and the rest. Reading the books only gave me some slight insight.

How many times have I read of that fight to get across the airfield on Pel? Now I have a gripping mental picture I will never forget.

[Sheila Hays]

I watched most of the series, some I had to close my eyes. That was the war that was supposed to end all wars, I was so little when the war was going on. I was four years old. As we got older my Mom had us watch " World at war". To this day, I can still remember we had dark green shades on our windows.
My Mom kept the issue of Life Magazine on the coffee table, it showed the Marines raising the flag on Mt. Suribachi. I'm so proud to have been a Marine. Semper Fi
Sheila Hays

[Sheila Hays]

I was born in 1941, a long time ago. Semper Fi Sheila Hays

[jetdawgg]

Just got off the phone with a civilian relative (never served). He stated that he could not watch after the third episode. His claim was that it was not 'entertaining' like BoB.:sick::iwo:

[Lynn2]

Just got off the phone with a civilian relative (never served). He stated that he could not watch after the third episode. His claim was that it was not 'entertaining' like BoB.:sick::iwo:

Jet, do not think for a moment he is unique. I can't tell you the number on line I have read that wanted nothing but blowing up crap and exploding Marines. They wanted nothing to do with Manila John at home. Nothing to do with Melbourne.

They wanted and were very honest about the fact that they only wanted exciting entertainment. (but not so understanding I think about what this said about them and their attitude toward service people in general)

But then there were others. Civilians that talked about a new found respect. Others that watched in awe. Others that could not watch many of the scenes. The battle scenes not the sex scenes.

And one who claimed to have held a life long view that dropping the bomb(s) was an unneeded war crime.

Then after watching the series changing his mind completely.

How people viewed this series says a lot about them as people I suspect. It would take a Masters or PhD thesis to tell us exactly what is exactly. But it tells us something about them I have absolutely no doubt.

[jetdawgg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aytG1craidk&feature=related

[Lynn2]

Well this series has sure pushed me to do my WW2 research. I came across this post on a quite serious WW2 History Forum. It sort of took my breath away. I mean I knew training was short. But this?


"Several posters have mentioned training in the USMC. Two uncles of mine fought with the 1st Marine Division on Guadalcanal: PFC Robert Caufield with H 2/5 and PFC Bernard "Buddy" Seiden with H&S 1/11 (KIA 16 October 1942). I obtained Bernard Seiden's personnel file from the National Personnel Records Center some time ago and it contained some interesting facts regarding training.

It seems that after Pearl Harbor, the services rushed men through training as quickly as possible. After enlisting in the USMC, Bernard reported to New York City on 2 January 1942 and was sent by rail to Parris Island, South Carolina, for training. Here are some excerpts from his service record book, or "SRB":

Boot camp: He was assigned to the 10th Recruit Battalion on 3 January 1942 and graduated on 24 January 1942. That means that boot camp was three weeks long in early 1942.

School Training: On 24 January, Bernard was assigned to Co. F, The Training Center at Quantico, Virginia for training as a signalman. This course ended on 8 February 1942, so it lasted for two weeks. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 11th Marines on the same day and sent to Camp Lejeune, which was then the home base of the 1st Division. "

[Zulu 36]

Well this series has sure pushed me to do my WW2 research. I came across this post on a quite serious WW2 History Forum. It sort of took my breath away. I mean I knew training was short. But this?


"Several posters have mentioned training in the USMC. Two uncles of mine fought with the 1st Marine Division on Guadalcanal: PFC Robert Caufield with H 2/5 and PFC Bernard "Buddy" Seiden with H&S 1/11 (KIA 16 October 1942). I obtained Bernard Seiden's personnel file from the National Personnel Records Center some time ago and it contained some interesting facts regarding training.

It seems that after Pearl Harbor, the services rushed men through training as quickly as possible. After enlisting in the USMC, Bernard reported to New York City on 2 January 1942 and was sent by rail to Parris Island, South Carolina, for training. Here are some excerpts from his service record book, or "SRB":

Boot camp: He was assigned to the 10th Recruit Battalion on 3 January 1942 and graduated on 24 January 1942. That means that boot camp was three weeks long in early 1942.

School Training: On 24 January, Bernard was assigned to Co. F, The Training Center at Quantico, Virginia for training as a signalman. This course ended on 8 February 1942, so it lasted for two weeks. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 11th Marines on the same day and sent to Camp Lejeune, which was then the home base of the 1st Division. "


I've read about this drastically shortened training time in the past, but I can't remember where. However, I do remember that it was rather quickly discovered that the very short training periods were unsatisfactory and they were lengthened. I think the shortest boot camp stretch in WWII became six-weeks. Training days were longer than they are now and it was very common for recruits to get minimal sleep as DIs would drag them out of the rack for conditioning hikes in the middle of the night.

The reason for the short training was to get the 1st Marine Division filled up and further training was expected to be provided at the new Marine's first unit. It was, but the learning curve at Guadalcanal was still steep.

[Lynn2]

From that same history forum. An excerpt from a Marines letter home. Great ending to the paragraph:

"This from a WW2 Marine veteran as well(private correspondence):


In the Corps we had liars, thieves, criminals, *******s, jerks, misfits, con-artists, cowards and other less than admirable characters. In N.Z. we had a Marine corn hole a sheep, with two others holding the sheep down. I could go on with this but I wont.

In short, Marines are not that different than the general population, but on occasion they work together well, especially in combat."

[Lynn2]

http://www.historynet.com/screenwriter-bruce-c-mckenna-talks-about-the-pacific-miniseries.htm

For those that like to read up on the background stuff. A short but interesting interview with Bruce McKenna who oversaw the Pacific and wrote much of it.

[Lynn2]

The Emmy nominations are out. Well done boys



HBO's "The Pacific" led all programming with 24 nominations for the 62nd Primetime Emmy Awards, announced on Thursday (July 8) morning.

[jetdawgg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94et1Bb53mw&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-yK0bvKAEU&feature=related

[Lynn2]

I am speechless.

How could they pass over young Timmy from the Park?


Actor, Miniseries or Movie: Jeff Bridges, "A Dog Year," HBO; Ian McKellen, "The Prisoner," AMC; Michael Sheen, "The Special Relationship," HBO; Dennis Quaid, "The Special Relationship," HBO; Al Pacino, "You Don't Know Jack," HBO.

[kenrobg30]

In 48-49, the only training I received, was normal Boot Camp SOP, then I was sent to DC, to serve in an Interior Guard unit.I served My one year, active duty, received an Honorable Discharge, and...

[jetdawgg]

Eugene Sledge describes landing at Peleliu (from the film 'Peleliu 1944: Horror in the Pacific')

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byg_vkEankY&feature=related

[June 1975]

There are very few of these brave survivors left out there. When you meet one make sure that he knows how much we all appreciate what they did for our country.