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Randy1980
01-01-10, 11:04 PM
I'm going in as an Infantry 3011. I plan to do a lateral move into Recon. 0321 or HUMINT 0211 after a couple year.

What I'd like to know is if it's possible to retake the ASVAB again once you're already in for a higher score to meet the requirements for the chosen PMOS?

Here's an outline of where I hope to go.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4047/chainm.jpg

I love computers. I love programming. But I'd like to go Infantry to be on the front and experiencing life. I chose the MOS since it's 'in-the-field' work. I expect to learn a lot, like serving a country, harshness of reality, life in afghan or wherever I'm shipped, discipline. A job that puts me in the front while helping others.

I've started learning my 3rd language, which is one of the reason I happen to choose RECON AND HUMINT. I heard I will be able to receive official training in specific languages but unlike linguist, I won't be bound by only interpreting and translating. When I get out, I like to apply for computer security. Of course not right out of the Marines. I'm going to have to do a lot of catching up, reading textbooks, and hands-on security programming and MUCH more. FBI and CIA are also choices.

College is not a choice. I have enough money for college but I won't be independent. I'd have to live with my family. Dealing with family problems most of the days, I'll be drained to be able to study. "If you had to take care of 6 children, depression, and received no support whatsoever in life, then that's how it will feel like," a counselor once told me and her word rings true. I want a change of environment. Not one that's envelops you in negativity. So in choosing military life, I'll be able to be more independent and at the same time, draw in real life experiences and sort things out -- or develop individually over time.

So what would be the very possibly best choice if I wanted to approach military life in the Marines and accrue skills that will help in cyberwarefare, FBI, CIA.

My recruiter told me I should just go in as Infantry, then lateral move to RECON OR HUMINT. I only have a permanent resident card. SO my final question is, should i join after getting my citizenship or get it after basic training? Thanks!

Lisa 23
01-01-10, 11:08 PM
Since you took the time to make a long post, and there's nothing wrong with that, how about taking the time to fill out all of your profile so the Marines who are going to answer your questions know who they are talking to.

fs19
01-02-10, 09:30 AM
Ask your recruiter if they are still doing UZ Recon contracts. You may want to check with the FBI/CIA regarding a college degree, because I'm pretty sure you need one to be in either. As far as your citizenship, I can't offer any guidance other than if it is a long or complicated process, I would get it taken care of before you enlist, cause you won't have much time after.

Phantom Blooper
01-02-10, 10:26 AM
What MOS is 3011 never heard of it?:evilgrin:

RLE0352
01-02-10, 10:42 AM
What MOS is 3011 never heard of it?:evilgrin:
I think it's a grunt with dyslexia.

brian0351
01-02-10, 11:44 AM
If you have that kind of scholastic background...Infantry will be a waste! You won't be able to "lat" move generally until you re-enlist. What happens if 4 years down the road you don't care for the Marines and get out? Then your just a smart grunt.

You know what smart grunts do when they get out...same thing as dumb grunts. Security, Police or hope to then start your 4 year degree. I was in the same boat. Joined the Infantry with high Asvab scores. It wasn't until 5 years after I got out that I was able to move into my current career in computers. And in that case it was the TS clearance I got from MSG duty that got my foot in the door. TS clearances are generally NOT given to grunts.

Don't go infantry...use your brain.

codeman92190
01-02-10, 01:04 PM
Wow... That chart just blew my mind.

Before making it though, you probably should have visited the employment section of the FBI and CIA websites, where it lists the prerequisites for being hired, and a college degree is plainly listed as one of them.

No biggie though, it just means you've got to go to school...

As for your Marine Corps career, however, I wouldn't plan on lat moving prior to your second enlistment. I believe the minimum is two years, but I've never heard of anyone getting it that early.

One last tidbit to share: if you'd like to do infantry and intel, make sure to do it in that order. From what I understand from my friend at intel school right now, once you go 02xx, you're ineligible to serve as a grunt afterwards, because you become a liability if captured.

Any saltier Marines care to confirm that one?

Zulu 36
01-02-10, 01:45 PM
You can be a regular grunt as a permanent resident. You will not be able to be recon or HUMINT (i.e., counterintelligence) until you are a citizen due to the security clearance requirements. CI means a top secret clearance with the attendant single scope background investigation. A family full of non-citizens will not be helpful here.

However, you cannot enlist straight into CI. That is a lat move MOS only and you have to be a Sergeant upon completion of the school. Believe it or not, infantry is a good MOS to have before going into CI as CI types are in the field a lot running around with grunts. I knew a bunch of CI types who were highly decorated Vietnam vets. Most got their decorations for valor in firefights, not doing the secret squirrel stuff. Plus, intimate knowledge of the infantry trade gave them a very credible cover story in case they were captured.

Any regular job with the FBI or CIA requires US citizenship as it comes right back to the security clearance requirements. Any job of the type you are thinking of with the FBI or CIA will also require, at minimum, a bachelors degree. If you are looking into some kind of computer security thing with them, your degree will need to be in computers. The FBI prefers applicants with degrees in computers, law, or accounting.

Being bi-or tri-lingual is always a plus in the intel or law enforcement community.

BTW, codeman, I did a lat move with a re-up at two-years. I was a Sergeant by then. Of course this was in 1973, so I don't know about these days.

Randy1980
01-02-10, 03:01 PM
If I join the Infantry, active duty, then that would be 4 years active and 2 reserved. From what I'm hearing, active duty Marines (0311) don't have much time to study.

After reading the very much appreciated responses, the message from it is to become a citizenship, finish college with a bachelor, then join INFANTRY/RECON/or HUMINT.

I hope to hear more opinions from MARINES. Thank you!

Lisa 23
01-02-10, 05:19 PM
I only have a permanent resident card. SO my final question is, should i join after getting my citizenship or get it after basic training? Thanks!
The Marine Corps has boot camp/recruit training. The Army has basic training.

United States Military Enlistment Standards
Do You Qualify to Enlist in the United States Military?
Age (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlage.htm)
Citizenship (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcitizen.htm)
Number of Dependents (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enldep.htm)
Credit and Finances (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcredit.htm)
Single Parents (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlsingparent.htm)
Applicants Married to Military Members (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcouples.htm)
Education (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enleducation.htm)
Drug/Alcohol Involvement (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enldrugs.htm)
Criminal History (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcriminal.htm)
Sexual Preference (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlsexual.htm)
Height/Weight Standards (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlweight.htm)
Medical Physical (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlmedical.htm)
Miscellaneous Provisions (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlmisc.htm)
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm

Smitty Puffs
01-02-10, 05:36 PM
hahaha.....really? You're gonna call this kid out for saying basic instead of boot? Good lord. This website gives me a lot of laughs.


Listen brotha, focus on being a good grunt before you worry about Recon or Human intelligence. Most kids who go in with Recon contracts winde up not even wanting to to do it once they find out that the Marine Corps isn't necessarily like COD Modern Warfare. Get some experience in the regular infantry before you start wanting to be all High-speed, low drag.

Randy1980
01-02-10, 06:22 PM
I have all the requirements, I am positive I will pass all drug, medical, and criminal screening. The only thing is deciding getting my citizenship before entering or while I'm serving. And would it be better to finish 3 more years of school for my bachelor's degree or get it after serving active duty? That's one of the decision I'm trying to assess given where I'm aiming for.


@Smitty Puffs, yeah. Infantry would probably be first on the list.


Citizenship (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcitizen.htm)
Number of Dependents (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enldep.htm)
Credit and Finances (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcredit.htm)
Single Parents (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlsingparent.htm)
Applicants Married to Military Members (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcouples.htm)
Education (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enleducation.htm)
Drug/Alcohol Involvement (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enldrugs.htm)
Criminal History (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcriminal.htm)
Sexual Preference (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlsexual.htm)
Height/Weight Standards (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlweight.htm)
Medical Physical (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlmedical.htm)
Miscellaneous Provisions (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlmisc.htm)
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm

Lisa 23
01-02-10, 06:31 PM
US Military Enlistment Standard
Citizenship

In order to join the US Military, you must either be a US citizen, or you must be a legal permanent immigrant, physically living in the United States, with a green card. The US military cannot and will not assist with the immigration process. If you are not a US citizen, you must legally and permanently immigrate to the United States first, via the regular immigration procedures and quotas, establish a residence, and then (if you meet the other qualifying criteria (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlstandards.htm)), visit a military recruiter's office and apply for enlistment.

For enlistment purposes, citizens of the United States include citizens of: Guam, Puerto Rico, The U.S. Virgin Islands,The Northern Marianas Islands, American Samoa, The Federated States of Micronesia, and The Republic of the Marshall Islands.

Not all legal immigrants may be eligible to enlist. Applicants who have been residents of countries considered hostile to the interests of the United States require a waiver. See your local recruiter for the most current list of countries considered hostile to the interests of the United States.

While non-citizens may enlist, they will find their job choices extremely limited. DOD policy prohibits granting security clearances to non-U.S. Citizens. Therefore, non-Citizens. who enlist in the United States military will be limited to those jobs which do not require a security clearance.

For legal immigrants who do enlist, there are accelerated citizenship procedures for non-citizens on active duty. For details, see our article, Becoming a Citizen in the US Military (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/citizenship.htm).

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlcitizen.htm



Check the following link out.........

Becoming a Citizen in the U.S. Military

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/citizenship.htm

Randy1980
01-04-10, 01:10 AM
I've been focus on joining active but as I read into this more, I'm finding that maybe this isn't the best choice. With reserve, I can volunteer to go on tour and become active if I wanted. So given that reserve requires drilling 1 weekend per month, I can study and go active whenever there's a chance.

Any guidance? I want to make the decent choice at least if I get some insight.

Zulu 36
01-04-10, 06:06 AM
I've been focus on joining active but as I read into this more, I'm finding that maybe this isn't the best choice. With reserve, I can volunteer to go on tour and become active if I wanted. So given that reserve requires drilling 1 weekend per month, I can study and go active whenever there's a chance.

Any guidance? I want to make the decent choice at least if I get some insight.


One thing you missed about the Reserves: Sometimes they activate you for a deployment when it isn't very convenient for you. You don't hold the reins.

0331 2 0369
01-04-10, 01:22 PM
If you have that kind of scholastic background...Infantry will be a waste! You won't be able to "lat" move generally until you re-enlist. What happens if 4 years down the road you don't care for the Marines and get out? Then your just a smart grunt.

You know what smart grunts do when they get out...same thing as dumb grunts. Security, Police or hope to then start your 4 year degree. I was in the same boat. Joined the Infantry with high Asvab scores. It wasn't until 5 years after I got out that I was able to move into my current career in computers. And in that case it was the TS clearance I got from MSG duty that got my foot in the door. TS clearances are generally NOT given to grunts.

Don't go infantry...use your brain.

I used to think the same thing about Marines getting out of the Corps. They become Cops and such. Thats because they settled for something. I had the great pleasure of serving for over 20yrs as a grunt and I don't have a college degree. I had offers for law enforcement from all over but that wasn't exactly what I was looking for. I didn't want to just settle for a job right out the gate. Ended up with a good job with great pay and I work for the DOJ. Sure the DOJ is law enforcement oriented but there are plenty of jobs within the DOJ that aren't law enforcement oriented and don't require a degree.

To many Marines use pizz-poor-prior-planning when they are getting out of the Corps. They wait till the last minute and then start looking for a job. Thats why they settle for the first thing they are offered. I started 6 months before retirement and had this job secured a month before I retired. I had to wait till my retirement was offical before starting this job but that was cool with me. Gave me plenty of down time while on terminal leave to just relax and clear my brain-housing-group.

Randy1980
01-04-10, 02:10 PM
yes, i kept that in mind. i know that will eventually happen but for the time i'm not activated, i'll have time to study.

Zulu 36
01-04-10, 02:24 PM
yes, i kept that in mind. i know that will eventually happen but for the time i'm not activated, i'll have time to study.

I need to stress this point: You might get activated in the middle of a semester. Luckily, most colleges these days are allowing cost free withdrawals for military people even after the drop period (or at least the refund rate in effect at the end of the drop period), so you can save some of your tuition cost.

Make sure your college is one of those.

brian0351
01-04-10, 11:10 PM
I used to think the same thing about Marines getting out of the Corps. They become Cops and such. Thats because they settled for something. I had the great pleasure of serving for over 20yrs as a grunt and I don't have a college degree. I had offers for law enforcement from all over but that wasn't exactly what I was looking for. I didn't want to just settle for a job right out the gate. Ended up with a good job with great pay and I work for the DOJ. Sure the DOJ is law enforcement oriented but there are plenty of jobs within the DOJ that aren't law enforcement oriented and don't require a degree.

To many Marines use pizz-poor-prior-planning when they are getting out of the Corps. They wait till the last minute and then start looking for a job. Thats why they settle for the first thing they are offered. I started 6 months before retirement and had this job secured a month before I retired. I had to wait till my retirement was offical before starting this job but that was cool with me. Gave me plenty of down time while on terminal leave to just relax and clear my brain-housing-group.

Gunny,

You make a great point about the planning. I got out in 2000...and that was back before the internet became the staple of information there is now. Suppose I am jaded at the "Getting out" process because I literally was told at my SEPS brief to look at law enforcement or the post office!

Now there is a world of information available to Marines getting out.

0331 2 0369
01-05-10, 08:53 AM
Gunny,

You make a great point about the planning. I got out in 2000...and that was back before the internet became the staple of information there is now. Suppose I am jaded at the "Getting out" process because I literally was told at my SEPS brief to look at law enforcement or the post office!

Now there is a world of information available to Marines getting out.

I agree. The information age is wayyyyy better now than before. Those "people" (trying to be nice) don't know their arse from a hole in the ground. They are there to draw a paycheck. They could do a lot better at helping our young Marines transition to the civilian world. I was lucky enough that when I retired, I was in the Norfolk area. I went through SEPS on a navy base. They have all their ducks in a row. Great information and they even have employeers come in and review your resume if you take their resume writing class. Some people where even hired right there in the classroom. Our young Marines of today definitely need to start planning at a minimal of 6 months out. Go to every class they can so they can take advantage of the services that are actually in place that no one really knows about.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion.:beer:

Wolfpack0313
01-05-10, 08:36 PM
One thing you missed about the Reserves: Sometimes they activate you for a deployment when it isn't very convenient for you. You don't hold the reins.

The Marine Corps definitely depolys you at their convenience. If you're planning to be in the infantry, plan on doing that and that only. College classes are not on the menu for a boot in an FMF Unit. To me, it seems like you're trying to do too much at once. You'll learn a lot about yourself in the infantry, but if you have some decent choices based on your ASVAB, you need to look a little deeper. I had an 86 on the ASVAB and still decided to go infantry. I was somewhat fortunate that I was offered the 0313 MOS (LAV Crewman) when I got to SOI. I dont regret it, but you're limiting yourself on what you can do after the Marine Corps. I figured out that I can sell, but you dont impress people when you say you can dig a mean fighting hole on an interview. Explore your options.

Randy1980
01-06-10, 02:54 PM
well, i have a few backup plans. i translate stuff frequently from 2 language; 2 target language to english, self taught. For one of the target language, you could say I have a certificate that's comparable to cambridge's advance english.

My question now is, I will be going active, and when I'm deployed, how much estimated peak time do you get to read magazine, books? I hear people get some time to their self but how long? It would be great if in those free time, I can retain my fluency by read materials in those target language and improvise.

Zulu 36
01-06-10, 03:12 PM
well, i have a few backup plans. i translate stuff frequently from 2 language; 2 target language to english, self taught. For one of the target language, you could say I have a certificate that's comparable to cambridge's advance english.

My question now is, I will be going active, and when I'm deployed, how much estimated peak time do you get to read magazine, books? I hear people get some time to their self but how long? It would be great if in those free time, I can retain my fluency by read materials in those target language and improvise.

Sure, why not? You have down time that during which you can read.

Heck, I had a large library while I was in the Corps. My last company commander would borrow one of my books every week during barracks inspection, and leave the last one he took with a note telling me which new one he borrowed. Funny aside: He forgot to return a book one week and when he returned it the following week, he left a quarter for the "overdue fine." :D

Out in the sand box, your library size will have to be limited, but nothing stops you from sending old books home (or sharing them around) and having family send new books out. My oldest daughter has regular books and a Kindle for reading while in the 'Stan. Her husband and I both have stacks of books set aside ready to ship when she wants them.

Randy1980
01-06-10, 03:19 PM
alright! that's what i wanted to hear. if i can maintain these skills and explore other areas of life as an infantryman then, and improve on another, that would be the best. i don't expect to get a several hours a day, a couple or one less is fine if i can review what i've learned. so i won't forget.

Accord
01-07-10, 11:17 PM
What is your ultimate goal? If you want to be a Marine first and then later on lat move into something of a bit higher echelon, that's a solid plan, assuming you meet the requirements and are mentally capable of handling the rigors- which if you speak 3 languages you can.

Everyone on here is going to pimp the Marines like it's cool, but you need to look out for yourself. Decide what your goal is and follow that path, if your ultimate goal is the latter of what you say, then enlisting in the Army as a 35M is going to be your best choice. Don't let the pride of just being a Marine cloud your decision, because that is stupid and you'll end up regretting it. You can go directly into the Army as a 35M and be operating overseas in less than one year, as opposed to waiting at least 4 years if you go the Marine route. Seriously man, with your qualifications and everything else you need to go to the Army, because you'll be wasted in the Marine Corps. That's the truth no matter what anyone on here is going to tell you.

Randy1980
01-08-10, 05:12 PM
I'm not in any hurry. My ultimate goal is to jump at every opportunity that presents itself while perhaps in Infantry.

I want to make sure my chances of doing a lateral move is there, and how long does it usually take. I know that ASVAB score plays an important role. I'm looking for insights like yours, Accord, which helps a lot. That's why I'm reading up on about.military and Army 35M you suggested.

@Accord, and one of the trivia reason I'm joining is for the challenge as an Infantryman. It would've been a tough decision if I didn't have certain skill that when I get out, I would be drained and left with nowhere to go, as some had put it.

I have dreams of managing a business that's physical (everyone does, right?) and not just an eCommerce, but maybe that's where we're headed in the future.

Accord
01-08-10, 08:14 PM
You're not going to have ANY opportunities within the infantry, period. I don't care what anyone tells you. You may get send to Corporals Course if you become a CPL while a grunt and various other little B.S. that doesn't matter and no one cares about. You're going to do predeployment training workups, deploy, go on leave, predeployment training workup, deploy, etc. for 4 years. That's it. Don't just join the infantry to be a grunt... nobody on this earth cares that you're an 03 except for other 03's. And this is coming from a former 03. Don't waste your skillsets in the infantry, regardless of branch.

DADDYMAC34
01-08-10, 09:06 PM
Cpl, I am to short on time tonight, to give examples. But, you/we have learned a great deal from the grunts. I'll post up tomorrow.


You're not going to have ANY opportunities within the infantry, period. I don't care what anyone tells you. You may get send to Corporals Course if you become a CPL while a grunt and various other little B.S. that doesn't matter and no one cares about. You're going to do predeployment training workups, deploy, go on leave, predeployment training workup, deploy, etc. for 4 years. That's it. Don't just join the infantry to be a grunt... nobody on this earth cares that you're an 03 except for other 03's. And this is coming from a former 03. Don't waste your skillsets in the infantry, regardless of branch.

Randy1980
01-09-10, 04:20 AM
Another insightful post! I'm looking more into HUMINT straight when I join. I'll need a year to qualify for it. Thank you for another eye opener even if it didn't seem like it. This kind of experience and opinion helps a lot.


You're not going to have ANY opportunities within the infantry, period. I don't care what anyone tells you. You may get send to Corporals Course if you become a CPL while a grunt and various other little B.S. that doesn't matter and no one cares about. You're going to do predeployment training workups, deploy, go on leave, predeployment training workup, deploy, etc. for 4 years. That's it. Don't just join the infantry to be a grunt... nobody on this earth cares that you're an 03 except for other 03's. And this is coming from a former 03. Don't waste your skillsets in the infantry, regardless of branch.

Smitty Puffs
01-09-10, 11:30 AM
You're not going to get HUMINT straight when you join. They only take Marines with "experience" for the most part. The only people I've seen go into Human Intelligence are people who asked for it after re-enlisting or were offered it after a few successful years in the corps.

rheinmark187
04-05-10, 01:37 AM
Another insightful post! I'm looking more into HUMINT straight when I join. I'll need a year to qualify for it. Thank you for another eye opener even if it didn't seem like it. This kind of experience and opinion helps a lot.

The Army has a linguist program for Non-citizens. I think you have to be in one of the critical languages, but the list is pretty diverse. You'll do transcribing and be on a fast track to citizenship. Mind telling us what country you're from? Is it a NATO country? Is it Anglophone? If you're it's a Anglophone NATO country, you might still have a reason to consider the Marine Corps, because you'll have an easier time getting a citizenship and moving right into 0211 that way.

You won't need to finish an enlistment to get accepted into 0211. That went away a few years back. You can go ahead and get an MOS, any MOS and then go ahead and submit a package for 0211 to the Intelligence battalion in your MEF. You'll have your board interview etc.

You can't do 35M,N,L etc. until you get your citizenship and clearance anyway, so until that gets squared away, there's no advantage to the Army other than that O9L, army translator aide.

RecruiterDan
07-07-10, 07:15 AM
One great reason to move into CI/HUMINT or another line of work that gets you a Secret or Top Secret clearance is that after getting at least 4 years of experience under your belt, civilian companies will hire you for great pay in a heartbeat. My company is actually looking to hire almost 200 HUMINT folks to deploy to Afghanistan for 12 months, and the pay will likely start from $80,000- $120,000 without a college degree. Practically no other jobs in the military can pay like that. The hiring will start in Sept and continue for the next 2 years. Drop a line if interested.