Worst ASVAB score in the league-OCC or Enlisting [Archive] - Marine Corps

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SCRocket7

12-04-09, 05:56 PM

I'm graduating college in May- Supposed to go to OCC in June. Good PFT but an ASVAB score a couple degrees higher then freezing in terms of temp. Last math class i had was 8 years ago!I'd prefer the OCS route, because I spent a good 5 in half years getting this dam degree, might as well take advantage- but realistically ima hafta raise that ASVAB a **** load..I did invest in the Award winning book, ASVAB For Dummies. If I can't get it up b4 April, Its the Dark Side for this college grad. I run pts/pfts with both enlisted& OCS poolies. My Enlist. recruiter offered me a spot to to go to Parris Next month and my god I wanted to take it, I have one god dam class i have to take in the spring, my parents would disown my ass if i enlist with one class shy of a degree. Im not the retard my asvab score portrays me to be( well...haha). I got an overall 3.1 GPA and my Major is History. Can't OCS be like well... Her degree is in History, that could be helpful/useful for a future leader- study/research a lot of wars and waiver me on threw..that would be to easy- when did Math problems start adding letters..? Cant solve B+xx-K=123 = not officer material. - Say I go enlisted, work my ass off, and earn the title- could i move up the ranks? eventually work into a Officers program..I just wanna know what I could possibly look into. There's no other career I want, no second thoughts, Im committed & ****ing excited as hell to have the opportunity. Feedback, advice, opinions would really help me out- Thanks- Shannon

Quinbo

12-04-09, 08:04 PM

Not kidding. That gave me a headache reading it.

Zulu 36

12-04-09, 08:05 PM

MD8724

12-04-09, 08:09 PM

Officer from the start = more money

More money > Less money

And you're graduating college ? Pfft.

Lisa 23

12-04-09, 08:27 PM

No need to curse to get your point across.
I also got a headache from reading your post, and I also agree with Zulu 36 on the apostrophes, capitalizing of acronyms, and sentence structure. Breaking your sentences down into paragraphs wouldn't hurt, either.
In my opinion, you may want to go enlisted first.

And it's........your enlisted recruiter offered you a spot to go to Parris Island, not Parris. If you want to become a Marine, say it the proper way.

SCRocket7

12-04-09, 09:57 PM

josephd

12-04-09, 10:37 PM

Yes, the last post was poorly written. I made myself look like an idiot. I have a better understanding on how I should present myself in here. Thank you for pointing this out. Officer's paycheck would be better, but realistically my A.S.V.A.B is not officer material right now. Will having a degree be an advantage in the enlisted ranks?

No not really, other than getting you contracted to a PFC and then possibly LCpl. sooner having a college degree doesn't get you anywhere within the enlisted ranks. Maybe if your chain of command knows about your eduction you may be tasked out with certain things or be put in a small billet to take care of some things because of your education. Other than that it doesn't mean anything or get you anywhere.

I don't mean this to sound negative in any way, its just my experience considering I have a college education and decided to go enlisted over the officer route

SCRocket7

12-04-09, 10:46 PM

echo3oscar1833

12-04-09, 10:54 PM

Thank you for telling me how it is in here. I will think before I type from now on. I'll take in all the feedback that is sent my way. Living the College life for the past 5 years has been an experience, but I'm past it. The Marine Corps is my next step. I have a lot to learn, take in, and I want to do it right.

Honestly, and this is just my opinion, if you spent all that time in college. Then go OCS, become an officer, you already have a leg up, use that advantage. Semper:marine:

Lisa 23

12-04-09, 10:55 PM

Out of curiosity, just how low was your ASVAB? And why do you want to become a Marine, whether it's enlisted or officer?

josephd

12-04-09, 11:28 PM

Out of curiosity, just how low was your ASVAB? And why do you want to become a Marine, whether it's enlisted or officer?

I think she said it was a couple points higher than freezing temperature.......eeeek!

SCRocket7

12-05-09, 12:14 AM

I was just curious. I heard conflicting stories about it. I may get a degree, but I know I'm no intellectual or honor student, just pretty average. I played College Hockey & Softball, and took only 12 credits each semester. I go to school in Myrtle Beach, we really are not known for our academics.

3522

12-05-09, 12:34 AM

OK, I'm curious, favorite Marine, "Gomer Pyle?!?!" http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=549&pictureid=6108

dizark

12-05-09, 01:09 AM

Listen, I enlisted at the age of 25 (5 months shy of 26). I've always hated x and y algebra and such so I did many practice exams online. The last math class I had when taking this ASVAB last September was 9-10 years ago. It's all about refreshing your memory on the subjects and going on from there.

Study your ASVAB for Dummies book over and over until you're comfortable. Go to the military website and start taking the practice ASVAB tests and go on from there.

Best of luck to you, but honestly, with a degree, and your PT being good, I'd push to go OCS. You'd get a hell of a lot more respect as a 2nd LT than a PFC out of boot camp. :)

SCRocket7

12-05-09, 01:21 AM

I got a 38. As of now I still have a seat reserved for June 2010 @ OCC. I really have to be honest with myself, a 38 is not Officer material. With the second part of your question. My goal is to become a Marine. I'm committed to that goal. Enlisted or Officer it doesn't matter. I really don't care about the difference in pay because I'm single, I don't have to support anyone, and it enough for me.

Lisa 23

12-05-09, 10:02 AM

stein07

12-05-09, 10:09 AM

Take the last class in the spring, FINISH YOUR DEGREE, and take it from there.

You can study for tests like the ASVAB, so if you want to be a Marine, start studying. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Isrowei

12-05-09, 10:49 AM

I'm also curious why you want to be a Marine.

5 and a half years to get a 4 year degree doesn't speak highly of your dedication. Telling us that Myrtle Beach isn't "known" for its academics.. means it's known for something else, which also doesn't speak highly of your work ethic.

Honestly, you sound like a party girl. Fun, energetic, but pretty vapid all the same. I bet you can tell me where every party and hot spot will be in Myrtle Beach tonight. But you don't understand the first thing about mathematics that are almost four centuries old? (by the way, that would be calculus) It's not really about your intelligence. I don't think you're stupid (at least I hope not), just ... more interested in the fun of the moment than working toward a future. And the thing is, as a Marine, whether officer or enlisted, you not only have to be concerned with your future, but also about the future of ALL of the Marines who work with and for you.

Why DO you want to be a Marine?

MD8724

12-05-09, 11:39 AM

OP, you should worry about the money. WHen you get a cell phone bill, a car payment, and whatever else, money can get tight. I don't care about your asvab score, if you can go Officer, go Officer, imo.

Isrowei,

No Offense, of course :) But as far as the college thing goes, it took me 3 semesters to get 12 credit hours :) I know alot of Marines who failed out of college. We got there, were ****ing losers, and failed out. It happens. OP at least got her degree. We don't even know that that is what happened. I know tons of people who just didn't know what major to take, or took too many light class loads, and ended up being there for another year or another semester. It's doesn't mean they're no dedicated. It just means they took a little bit longer to reach the goal.

As far as Myrtle Beach....Have you ever been there ? It's small as hell. I could probably tell you where every party is going to be held this weekend. Myrtle Beach isn't known for academics. It's known for being the the next best thing to Mardi Gras.

Oh, and don't feel bad about the Math. When I was in High School I had to take a remedial class for Math just before the ACT. Scored a 19 on the Math portion, and a 29 for the whole test. Sometimes, Math just isn't needed.

FattyTheFerret

12-05-09, 12:07 PM

when did Math problems start adding letters..? Cant solve B+xx-K=123 = not officer material.

About 1,200 years ago. Algebra is one step above basic math. =P

fespar

12-05-09, 12:21 PM

You strike me as a person who's all over the place all of the time.Officer vs. enlisted,more pay/less pay.What's all this?Officer or enlisted - it's not a casual thing like "should I wear my black hat or my white hat today?"Also no person becomes a Marine for the money.Seems to me that you could easily be persuaded to join the Army or Air Force.From your writings I'd say that you're not ready for the Marine Corps.You probably want to be but be serious and take stock in what Marines have said here!I'm a former enlisted Marine.:flag:

Isrowei

12-05-09, 12:34 PM

Isrowei,

No Offense, of course :) But as far as the college thing goes, it took me 3 semesters to get 12 credit hours :) I know alot of Marines who failed out of college. We got there, were ****ing losers, and failed out. It happens. OP at least got her degree. We don't even know that that is what happened. I know tons of people who just didn't know what major to take, or took too many light class loads, and ended up being there for another year or another semester. It's doesn't mean they're no dedicated. It just means they took a little bit longer to reach the goal.

As far as Myrtle Beach....Have you ever been there ? It's small as hell. I could probably tell you where every party is going to be held this weekend. Myrtle Beach isn't known for academics. It's known for being the the next best thing to Mardi Gras.

Oh, and don't feel bad about the Math. When I was in High School I had to take a remedial class for Math just before the ACT. Scored a 19 on the Math portion, and a 29 for the whole test. Sometimes, Math just isn't needed.

I've been living in Beaufort, SC for the past few years. I know about Myrtle Beach quite well.

As far as math is concerned, it forms the basis of pratically every technical aspect of our lives. I flatly disagree with your statement of a basic understanding not being needed.

Many Marines take years in order to get a degree. I can respect that because you're doing a full-time job first and college on the side. I might be able to understand an engineering degree taking longer. But a History degree? With the level of writing competentcy displayed in the first post? And a statement on "Myrtle Beach isn't known for academics" like it's an excuse? I smell something rotten in Denmark.

Feel free to have your opinion, and I'll have mine.

About 1,200 years ago. Algebra is one step above basic math. =P

One of the earliest known uses of integral calculus was around 1800 B.C. by the Egyptians in making the pyramids.

FattyTheFerret

12-05-09, 01:01 PM

Even better, sir. =D I was using al-khwarizmi as a reference point but I do always get a kick out of it whenever that question is posed.

Zulu 36

12-05-09, 01:44 PM

I completely agree with the Captain. I hated math in high school and I'm still not terribly skilled at it without a calculator. I felt basic math was fine, who needs the rest of that nonsense. Luckily for me, my reading and writing skills greatly exceeded my math skills so I didn't have to struggle there.

I learned very early in my Marine Corps career how much math is part of daily life. When I went to embarkation school, I REALLY learned how much math is used in the military.

I used math ALL of the time during my police career and especially so when investigating traffic crashes. My crash reconstructionist used some really complicated math.

Algebra became much clearer to me when I had to use it in my MBA managerial finance and accounting courses. Perhaps using "real" numbers instead of made up stuff helped cement it in my mind.

As I'm sure the Captain will agree, as an officer you will not just be sitting at a desk with a cup of coffee watching NCOs yell at the non-rates through the window. You will be writing reports, letters, plans, memos, etc. You may be helping to plan pre-plotted defensive fires for artillery, mortars, or air support (this will require some math too). You may be delivering verbal briefings to very senior officers, and a twittering demeanor will not reflect well on your fitness report.

Perhaps in your case, if you really want to be a Marine, starting as an enlisted person may be the right thing. You'll learn what will be needed as an officer, you can improve those areas, and you'll gain some maturity (if you stay away from the party girl behavior). Then once you've established yourself as a squared-away, reliable Marine, you can apply for OCC and have a better shot at successfully completing it.

Meanwhile, follow dizark's suggestions regarding ASVAB for Dummies and taking practice tests on-line. It's a fine suggestion whether you go officer or enlisted.

SCRocket7

12-08-09, 01:33 PM

I'm not a "party girl" I was an athlete.

SCRocket7

12-08-09, 01:36 PM

I have a work ethic, It took me 5 years because I red shirted . Math is not my strong point. I have 3.0 overall GPA. Thanks for the feedback

SCRocket7

12-08-09, 01:51 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, I got a math tutor and I'm re-taking the ASVAB in January. If i can't raise my score for OCS standards. Im Enlisting. Thank you all for your opinions and feedback.

FattyTheFerret

12-08-09, 02:05 PM

mazel tov and may the force be with you

Vandrel

12-08-09, 02:15 PM

My opinion, take it for what it's worth,

The comments regarding your dedication, I think you are just fine. You have stuck out school for 5 years, that is dedication to me. I've been struggling to get myself mentally ready for college and it's been rough. I have not sat in a school classroom for over 10 years and I probably couldn't do 11th grade math even if I wanted to. It's not because I'm not dedicated, it's just that I have not had to use those things since high school. Look at your situation, you are way ahead of the ball game no matter how you look at it, even if your ASVAB score wasn't the best you're still well above the average junion enlisted Marine.

Now, the ASVAB, you can always retake it. After you join, graduate and are wearing the uniform in the fleet you can always go to your base education center and retake the ASVAB. I don't remember the time restrictions but I think once you had a score in the system you had to wait "x" amount of time before retaking it again for score.

Don't think just because you got a lower then expected score that you are not officer material. You can still sign up and make it in and later on retake the test and try to lat-move over to a different job if you want, it's much harder for officers but it can be done. The only time your ASVAB score would ever be brought up is processing in the Corps and maybe if you were submitting a package to change your MOS or go to a special school that had a prereq for a specific score. Just as it was mentioned, the military really only cares about the GT score, the overall is just to ensure you "pass".

Again, you are way ahead of the game with 5 years of higher education under your belt. My suggestion, study and retake the test, if you don't do better then go with it. In 9 years my ASVAB score only came up a handful of times and mostly because I was bs'ing with people because they didn't beleive me when I told them I scored a 37. I scored a 37 because I didn't take the ASVAB seriously and didn't understand that it effected what MOS's I qualified for.

That will be your only restriction with a lower score, what MOS options are available to you.

In officer country the general conversations regarding education will be about college. So if you decide to go office, get used to telling other officers what school you went to and the story about your degree, it's always a topic of discussion.

Aside from everything, study, focus and stay dedicated to whatever it is you finally decide to go with. There's nothing wrong with enlisted, you can always go officer later.

MD8724

12-08-09, 02:28 PM

Bam, Redshirt Athlete. Who called it on the work Ethic ? This guy!

Isrowei

12-08-09, 03:25 PM

So you meant to say Myrtle Beach is known for it's athletics? I missed that part. Both from your post, and from any time I've ever been to Myrtle Beach. Interesting.

Look, you CAN do whatever you want. You asked for opinions on what you should do. I think you should study more and retake the test. There's no reason you should be college educated and get a 38 on the ASVAB.

None.

...even if your ASVAB score wasn't the best you're still well above the average junion enlisted Marine.

I don't want to get into the rest of your post, but this is just flat wrong. If you disagree, please cite your source. I'd like to know where you get that the "average" Marine scored 37 or less on the ASVAB.

Bam, Redshirt Athlete. Who called it on the work Ethic ? This guy!

There are many reasons for being a red shirt. I don't even want to get into that mess.

You're assuming that "extra practice time"="better work ethic" or worse "superior athletic skill"="better work ethic". Not so.

In plain language, there are a lot of people with excellent physical ability who just aren't ready or able to be an Officer of Marines. If they were, we'd just do away with OCS and make the PFT the only standard for commissioning. Obviously this is not the case.

Shannon, the decision is up to you and what you're willing to do to achieve your goal. No one is saying you can't, least of all me. But what you showed here wasn't promising if that is your A game.

It'd be like showing up to a game to play for a professional scout and sit in the outfield talking on your cell phone. Sure, you MIGHT just catch that pop fly... but it doesn't look like you're focused on the game at hand.

Being a Marine isn't a funny, haha "oh this might be neat" kind of thing. Being a Marine Officer is a damn sight harder. A LOT of people don't make it. Test scores aren't everything. We all know that. But as an athlete, you KNOW the preparation IS everything. You perform how you practice... and right now, I have questions about your academic "practice".

Incidentally, I'm also the only officer giving you advice here. And I have VERY high standards, for myself, as well as others. I know this, and I make no apologies for it.

I'll send you a PM with some more info that I think might be helpful for you. If you have any questions, you can contact me directly. Otherwise I've said my piece and I'm going to bow out of the topic. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

DADDYMAC34

12-08-09, 04:28 PM

Bam, Redshirt Athlete. Who called it on the work Ethic ? This guy!
I have spent 20 years coaching football. This statement is not true!

Vandrel

12-08-09, 04:36 PM

I don't want to get into the rest of your post, but this is just flat wrong. If you disagree, please cite your source. I'd like to know where you get that the "average" Marine scored 37 or less on the ASVAB.

I suppose I should have made that part a little more clear. The average Marine is what? 18 years old... maybe 20 years old? The average Marine doesn't have 5 years of college, let alone any.

My point is the ASVAB is nothing more then a bracket to get into the service, aside from that it's just another number on the SRB that will never get looked at again unless it's one of those afore mentioned things I listed in a rough example.

Incidentally, I'm also the only officer giving you advice here. And I have VERY high standards, for myself, as well as others. I know this, and I make no apologies for it.

Which is why you are the best person to respond for that area

Personally I feel enlisted has the best of both sides, enlisted can always put in to change over but officers can't drop down to enlisted :D

DADDYMAC34

12-08-09, 04:37 PM

Some people just do not test well. Chestey himself struggled academically. Was by passed more than once. OCs are lucky they get to take the ASVAB more then once. Kids in the DEP only get one crack at it.

Isrowei

12-08-09, 04:43 PM

enlisted can always put in to change over but officers can't drop down to enlisted :D

Touche! :)

Lisa 23

12-08-09, 04:58 PM

ABC's of the ASVAB
ASVAB and Commissioning
Marine Corps. Candidates for Marine OCC (Officer Candidate Class) or PLC (Platoon Leaders Course), must score a minimum of 115 on the Marine's GT line sore (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjo2/a/asvab.htm) of the ASVAB. Candidates can also qualify with a minmum combined score of 1000 on the verbal and math sections of the SAT, or a combined math and verbal score of 45 on the ACT.
ABCs of the ASVAB (http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/asvababcs.htm) Main Menu (http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/asvababcs.htm)

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/asvabcommission.htm

And I'll ask again, why do you want to become a Marine?

ASVAB Scores Required for the Marine Corps
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/blusmcasvab.htm

Minimun Required ASVAB Scores and Education Level

Marine Corps

ASVAB Score - Marine Corps recruits must score at least 32. A very few exceptions are made (about one percent) for some exceptionally otherwise qualified recruits with scores as low as 25.
Education - As with the Air Force, those without a high school education are ineligible. The Marine Corps limits GED enlistments to no more than five percent per year. Those with a GED must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT to even be considered. As with the other services, the Marine Corps offers advanced enlistment rank (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blusmcadvancedrank.htm) for college credits. However, of all the services, the Marines are the most restrictive in this area. The maximum advanced rank for college credits is E-2, where the other services will give college credit advanced rank up to E-3 (E-4 in the Army).

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/genjoin/a/asvabminimum.htm

MD8724

12-08-09, 05:19 PM

Isrowei,

Please don't take anything from my post that isn't there. My post about being right, was simply about you being wrong, and downright rude, for judging her on the fact it took her 5 years to get her degree. You were quick to call her a "party girl" and judge her work ethic, without any reason to do so, other than her extended time at college, which was due to the fact that she redshirted, and took only 12 credit hours a semester.

Oh, and you are correct, there are many reasons for being redshirted, none of which have to do with academics.

Isrowei

12-08-09, 08:32 PM

MD8724,

Don't put anything in my post that isn't there.

The OP asked for feedback, advice, and opinions. I gave her mine, as a current Marine Officer, who has done what she is aspiring to do. I am also a former enlisted Marine, so I have experience on what it takes to successfully complete Boot Camp, and then pursue a Commission from within the enlisted ranks. I did absolutely judge her presentation on these forums, her first impression if you will, and found it lacking in several areas.

I did not demean or degrade her person, intellect, or ability. I did however, provide her straight talk on her current position and her aptitude for her stated chosen options by evaluating ONLY HER SELF-PRESENTED INFORMATION AT THE TIME. Consequently, her additional information of "red shirting" does not change my opinion one bit. It is neither a reason nor a valid excuse for any lack of academic achievement. Many highly physically qualified individuals fail to make the cut to be Marines, much less Marine Officers. Either you have the whole package, or you don't. It's that simple.

Now, to respond directly to your accusation, and I will warn you to grow some thicker skin than you have displayed so far. As a Marine NCO, I expect far more from you than a simple college kid.

Listen close, as it is not often I explain myself in this detail to someone who should have known better from the start.

Here is my post for reference:

I'm also curious why you want to be a Marine.

5 and a half years to get a 4 year degree doesn't speak highly of your dedication. Telling us that Myrtle Beach isn't "known" for its academics.. means it's known for something else, which also doesn't speak highly of your work ethic.

Honestly, you sound like a party girl. Fun, energetic, but pretty vapid all the same. I bet you can tell me where every party and hot spot will be in Myrtle Beach tonight. But you don't understand the first thing about mathematics that are almost four centuries old? (by the way, that would be calculus) It's not really about your intelligence. I don't think you're stupid (at least I hope not), just ... more interested in the fun of the moment than working toward a future. And the thing is, as a Marine, whether officer or enlisted, you not only have to be concerned with your future, but also about the future of ALL of the Marines who work with and for you.

Why DO you want to be a Marine?

In detail, I mentioned the following reasons for doubting her work ethic:
(Please note the reasons are cumulative. As in, no single one is presents enough specific weight to doubt her work ethic, but when considered in totale, presents a strong case)

1) Her absolutely horrible presentation of writing skills in her first post
2) Her declaration of being a History major, a humanities discipline, which uses writing to a great extent, coupled with point 1
3) Spending 5+ years to earn a 4 year degree
4) Defending her achievements (or lack thereof) by saying (and I quote) "Myrtle Beach isn't known for it's academics."
5) Her self-declared "ASVAB score a couple degrees higher then freezing in terms of temp"
6) Her statement "when did Math problems start adding letters..? Cant solve B+xx-K=123 = not officer material"
7) Her statement "I played College Hockey & Softball, and took only 12 credits each semester."
8) Her statement "I go to school in Myrtle Beach, we really are not known for our academics."
9) Her statement "Can't OCS be like well... Her degree is in History, that could be helpful/useful for a future leader- study/research a lot of wars and waiver me on threw.."

You tell me what that last statement meant. Does it sound to YOU like someone who is willing and desiring to work HARD for their dream?

Does it?

Corporal of Marines, I am shocked that you DON'T think something is wrong here. You yourself stated the following:

1) Myrtle Beach isn't known for academics. It's known for being the the next best thing to Mardi Gras.
2) I know alot of Marines who failed out of college. We got there, were ****ing losers, and failed out. It happens.
3) But as far as the college thing goes, it took me 3 semesters to get 12 credit hours.

By your logic, simply because she managed to get more hours per semester, she is to be commended?

Two Lance Corporals show up for work late. One is 10 minutes, the other is 20 minutes. Is the first one "better" than the second because he beat him by 10 minutes? NO! Of course not. They're BOTH UA and failed to uphold the standard expected of a Marine.

You say I was rude for calling her a "party girl", but YOU, Corporal, validated that statement with your own assessment (see your first quoted statement above).

I do not commend nor encourage mediocrity. I hope, NCO, that you do not either. We expect the maximum effort. THAT... is the Marine Corps way.

My single post to her concluded with me asking her, in light of all the presented information, did she want to be a Marine. It did not seem like she had prepared very diligently for it.

You advised her to seek a commission because "Officer from the start = more money". When your life depends on her, and it very well could if she commissions someday, will you care more about her bigger paycheck, or her diligence in learning her job and doing it flawlessly?

It would be too late to have doubts then.

It is no joking matter to express the desire to be a Marine. So much more so a Marine Officer. The bar is high for a reason. It literally is a matter of life and death, especially in today's reality. Her potentially flippant desire to commission now is not worth your dead body being returned to your parents later.

Do you understand where I am coming from now, Marine?

MD8724

12-08-09, 08:59 PM

MD8724,

Don't put anything in my post that isn't there.

The OP asked for feedback, advice, and opinions. I gave her mine, as a current Marine Officer, who has done what she is aspiring to do. I am also a former enlisted Marine, so I have experience on what it takes to successfully complete Boot Camp, and then pursue a Commission from within the enlisted ranks. I did absolutely judge her presentation on these forums, her first impression if you will, and found it lacking in several areas.

I did not demean or degrade her person, intellect, or ability. I did however, provide her straight talk on her current position and her aptitude for her stated chosen options by evaluating ONLY HER SELF-PRESENTED INFORMATION AT THE TIME. Consequently, her additional information of "red shirting" does not change my opinion one bit. It is neither a reason nor a valid excuse for any lack of academic achievement. Many highly physically qualified individuals fail to make the cut to be Marines, much less Marine Officers. Either you have the whole package, or you don't. It's that simple.

Now, to respond directly to your accusation, and I will warn you to grow some thicker skin than you have displayed so far. As a Marine NCO, I expect far more from you than a simple college kid.

Listen close, as it is not often I explain myself in this detail to someone who should have known better from the start.

Here is my post for reference:

In detail, I mentioned the following reasons for doubting her work ethic:
(Please note the reasons are cumulative. As in, no single one is presents enough specific weight to doubt her work ethic, but when considered in totale, presents a strong case)

1) Her absolutely horrible presentation of writing skills in her first post
2) Her declaration of being a History major, a humanities discipline, which uses writing to a great extent, coupled with point 1
3) Spending 5+ years to earn a 4 year degree
4) Defending her achievements (or lack thereof) by saying (and I quote) "Myrtle Beach isn't known for it's academics."
5) Her self-declared "ASVAB score a couple degrees higher then freezing in terms of temp"
6) Her statement "when did Math problems start adding letters..? Cant solve B+xx-K=123 = not officer material"
7) Her statement "I played College Hockey & Softball, and took only 12 credits each semester."
8) Her statement "I go to school in Myrtle Beach, we really are not known for our academics."
9) Her statement "Can't OCS be like well... Her degree is in History, that could be helpful/useful for a future leader- study/research a lot of wars and waiver me on threw.."

You tell me what that last statement meant. Does it sound to YOU like someone who is willing and desiring to work HARD for their dream?

Does it?

Corporal of Marines, I am shocked that you DON'T think something is wrong here. You yourself stated the following:

1) Myrtle Beach isn't known for academics. It's known for being the the next best thing to Mardi Gras.
2) I know alot of Marines who failed out of college. We got there, were ****ing losers, and failed out. It happens.
3) But as far as the college thing goes, it took me 3 semesters to get 12 credit hours.

By your logic, simply because she managed to get more hours per semester, she is to be commended?

Two Lance Corporals show up for work late. One is 10 minutes, the other is 20 minutes. Is the first one "better" than the second because he beat him by 10 minutes? NO! Of course not. They're BOTH UA and failed to uphold the standard expected of a Marine.

You say I was rude for calling her a "party girl", but YOU, Corporal, validated that statement with your own assessment (see your first quoted statement above).

I do not commend nor encourage mediocrity. I hope, NCO, that you do not either. We expect the maximum effort. THAT... is the Marine Corps way.

My single post to her concluded with me asking her, in light of all the presented information, did she want to be a Marine. It did not seem like she had prepared very diligently for it.

You advised her to seek a commission because "Officer from the start = more money". When your life depends on her, and it very well could if she commissions someday, will you care more about her bigger paycheck, or her diligence in learning her job and doing it flawlessly?

It would be too late to have doubts then.

It is no joking matter to express the desire to be a Marine. So much more so a Marine Officer. The bar is high for a reason. It literally is a matter of life and death, especially in today's reality. Her potentially flippant desire to commission now is not worth your dead body being returned to your parents later.

Do you understand where I am coming from now, Marine?

And with all of that you did it agian. You still put that little bit of judgement in there about the 5 year schooling, even knowing that she reshirted. Agian, your assumptions = wrong.

cchurch

12-09-09, 03:04 AM

I'd recommend OCC on principle, but I may be biased as a PLC Officer Candidate. Realistically, I don't think with a 38 you have much possibility of getting accepted to OCC, but that can change. Depending on how stellar the rest of your application is, you may have a slim shot. With a 300 PFT, recommendations by Gen. Conway and Chesty Puller, and an essay exponentially better than your first post, you may squeeze by. However, you have good grades, which count for something no matter the reputation of your institution (my relatively average grades were weighted and resulted in more points than other applicants at a less prestigious university, and I'm a history major as well), so simply raising your ASVAB a small amount may be enough. I don't know the requirements of OCC, but they may have a minimum ASVAB. Personally (and again I'm not positive this translates into OCC) I wasn't even required to take the ASVAB because my ACT and SAT scores were above a minimum standard. I assume you took at least one of these tests to get into your university, so it's possible your civilian standardized test scores may be high enough. Sometimes a certain test can simply not agree with an individual, and you may have an easier time raising one of the other tests' scores.
However, my recommendation is to work your hardest on strengthening your scores, and submit the strongest OCC application you can. If you don't get accepted, don't be discouraged, and MCRD will be waiting for you. As an enlisted Marine, I don't think the degree will help you in any tangible way like promotions, but the skills and knowledge you have learned, such as critical thinking, will help you personally.
No matter what happens, I cannot advise strongly enough against withdrawing from school before you graduate. I have a relative who left school three months from her BA to follow her boyfriend to Navy AOCS, and she never forgave herself. Look into alternate options in your area and at your school, because if it is a common GE class you may be able to fulfill the requirement with night classes at a Community or Junior College, or even take it online from a school like BYU.

Best of luck and Semper Fi.

cchurch

12-09-09, 03:22 AM

Sorry, new to the site and didn't realize there were multiple pages. Reference the cited minimum requirements above. However, I disagree with the assumption that your five years makes you a substandard student. I don't know how it is at Myrtle Beach, but at my university (a flagship CSU) as well as, I'm told, at places like UC Berkeley and UCLA, the average time to graduate for many disciplines has become slightly greater than five years for the simple reason that many students cannot get places in their required classes.
My advice remains firm. Work on your ASVAB, or ACT or SAT if you're close, and submit your OCC application. One caveat, however: If your ACT/SAT scores aren't close, they can be relatively expensive to take repeatedly. An old-breed vet once told me to become an officer in the mid-60s, one had to graduate from Podunk State, spell Fidelis, and fog a mirror with their mouth. However, as I'm sure you're aware, this is no longer the case.
Additionally, if you're interested in advancing to officership after enlisting, you don't "work your way through the ranks," but you can advance through the MECEP program.
Good luck, Semper Fidelis.

Sgt Leprechaun

12-09-09, 03:49 AM

Interesting. My 2 cents....I was a sucky student in High School and barely graduated. My work ethic revolved around wargaming, drinking, and goofing off. My GPA was a stellar 1.8. I dodged every higher level math course I could, and took 2 years of 'consumer math' (which actually was quite useful, but not the point).

I'm not particularly proud of my less than stellar academic record and have worked DAMNED hard to get around it. Ever since, I've attended class after class and course after course, and always graduated in the top ten percent, at times, I've even graduated as the Honor Grad. I, too, late in life, attended the Accident Reconstruction course...and it was an ugly wake up call with more high level math than I'd ever had in my life. I passed, but it wasn't easy.

Three years ago, I reenlisted, this time into the Air National Guard, and became a Bio-Environmental Engineer. The school for this MOS is over 3 months long, and it's Calculus, Physics, Algebra, Trig, etc etc EVERY single day. It was a long hard road, but I'm proud to say I graduated in the top 10 percent of my class and can work a scientific calculator and do complex formulas with no fear whatsoever anymore.

I've been a professional writer, own my own successful business as well as being both an Accident Investigator, and a Hostage Negotiator, and Criminal Investigator/Detective. I've been recognized as an expert witness, and have been recognized as an expert in Civil War Medicine on a national level. As a Marine, I made Sergeant in five years and was a Meritorous Corporal.

I give you the resume not to brag or to bore, but to show that just because you are a pizz poor student ONCE doesn't mean you will be that way forever. "You may be whatever you wish to be".

Our young lass CAN succeed if she CHOOSES to. If she busts her azz and has the DRIVE to do it, she will.

My suggestion is to study, study, study (get some guides on taking the ASVAB, available through Amazon and your local bookstore), and pre-prep prior to taking the test.

I'd go for the officer slot. Well worth it in my opinion.

Sorry for the soapbox rant LOL.