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Jeff5886
11-28-09, 08:16 PM
Today while at the new MCX I got into young Devil Dog for wearing a hat indoors. A lady at the register said to me she knew Marines can't wear covers indoors, but didn't know if there was an order on this. I searched P1020.34G and could't find anything on the subject, but I am pretty sure there is a base order on this. I am curious if anyone knows where I can find the order on wearing hats indoors.

Thanks,
Sgt Horwitz

tangovictor87
11-28-09, 08:23 PM
They should have flyers on all the doors stating no covers, hats, pt gear, etc...

egbutler1
11-28-09, 08:25 PM
Hats are OK, covers NO GO. But most Marines understand not to wear any hat indoors. I don't think there is an Order on hats.

wargrudge
11-28-09, 08:30 PM
It's almost more of an unspoken rule, but some commands do restrict the wearing of hats indoors.

Lisa 23
11-28-09, 08:37 PM
1005. CIVILIAN CLOTHING

7. Standards of Dress

e. When wearing civilian headgear it will be removed when indoors, except that women may wear headgear in accordance with established social norms. The wear of clothing articles not specifically designed to be normally worn as headgear (e.g. bandannas, doo rags...) are prohibited.

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/library/MCUR/URCH1.htm

BVD
11-28-09, 08:37 PM
IT was my understanding that you could wear a cover indoors if you were under arms

egbutler1
11-28-09, 08:39 PM
IT was my understanding that you could wear a cover indoors if you were under arms
That you can or indeed have to, either that or wearing a "duty belt".

Lisa 23
11-28-09, 08:48 PM
MCO P1020.34F
MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS
CHAPTER 3: UNIFORM ITEMS AND REGULATIONS FOR THEIR WEAR

3004. CAPS/HEADGEAR
1. General

d. Headgear is normally removed indoors. Marines in a duty status and wearing side-arms or a pistol belt will remain covered indoors except when entering a space where a meal is in progress or religious services are being conducted. Headgear will be worn in Government vehicles, and in privately owned vehicles on base, except when doing so would present a hazard to safe driving.

http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/library/MCUR/URCH3.htm#UR3004

tankmech
11-28-09, 09:13 PM
A few years back there was a change in the order for liberty attire. No baseball hats are to be worn inside a building either. Will research further.:mad:

echo3oscar1833
11-28-09, 09:46 PM
K Sgt here is what I know, when I was in hats, covers, bandanna's, dew rags, etc where banned indoors on a military installation. That's how it was when I was in, and I'm sure its the same way to this day. That's not an order I see changing anytime soon. So I'm under the assumption your questioning whether or not you where in the right. Yes you where, without a doubt. I still take my hat off indoors to this day, unless Im at my dads, or my place. Semper!!:marine:

StoneTheWeak
11-29-09, 01:08 AM
Hmmm... news to me. If I ever wear a hat around I always just leave it on, no one ever got into my **** about it either. But maybe that's just the nasty air wing... >:=]

Twitchell
11-29-09, 03:37 PM
>CH 5 d. Headgear is normally removed indoors. Marines in a duty status and wearing side-arms or a pistol belt will remain covered indoors except when entering a space where a meal is in progress or religious services are being conducted. Headgear will be worn in Government vehicles on military bases and installations, except when doing so would present a hazard to safe driving. Wear of headgear in privately owned vehicles is not required. (MARADMIN 322/05)
<o>
</o>

Quinbo
11-29-09, 03:50 PM
An old custom... if you enter a house covered you are insulting the propieter of the house and the builder of the house. You are telling them that you think the roof leaks so you must keep a cover on your head. You also insult the lady of the house by speaking to her in her home with a hat on your head. Lord help ya if you sit down at the dinner table with a hat on your head. Might work at dennys.

Call it a tradition and manners to remove your headgear when crossing a thresh hold.

Twitchell
11-29-09, 04:04 PM
Twitchell, I posted the same thing you just posted a couple posts back (post #8).

My bad WMarine! LOL Semper FI

Lisa 23
11-29-09, 04:05 PM
No problem Twitchell....Semper Fi!

Hanzo
12-01-09, 09:27 AM
To piggyback on this thread, I had an encounter the day I graduated bootcamp that I always wondered about. This was aboard MCRDSD, nice sunny day and my family and I sat down to have some food enjoying the sunshine OUTSIDE. As I was outside, I left my cover on. A young Marine came over and told me to remove my cover because I was eating. This wasn't a rule I was familiar with, but I complied. What is the rule on this?

Old Marine
12-01-09, 09:54 AM
To piggyback on this thread, I had an encounter the day I graduated bootcamp that I always wondered about. This was aboard MCRDSD, nice sunny day and my family and I sat down to have some food enjoying the sunshine OUTSIDE. As I was outside, I left my cover on. A young Marine came over and told me to remove my cover because I was eating. This wasn't a rule I was familiar with, but I complied. What is the rule on this?

Common sense would be the rule. Did you eat at home with your cover on?

Hanzo
12-01-09, 10:11 AM
No, but I don't eat outside at home either. I was never told to remove my cover when eating as it was a none issue when in the chow hall and I honestly can't remember what I did in the field. But, while in garrison, you didn't remove your cover while outside, so it seemed conflicting to me, hence the question.

echo3oscar1833
12-01-09, 10:18 AM
No, but I don't eat outside at home either. I was never told to remove my cover when eating as it was a none issue when in the chow hall and I honestly can't remember what I did in the field. But, while in garrison, you didn't remove your cover while outside, so it seemed conflicting to me, hence the question.


The standard practice throughout the Marine Corps when eating outdoors, chow at a resaturant, a bag nasty at work, or MRE's out in the field. Is to take your cover off, its always been that way. The Marine that corrected you was in the right. Semper :marine:

Correction: Unless your in an area that specifically deligates you don't take your cover, or kevlar off due to safety reasons.

Hanzo
12-01-09, 10:21 AM
The standard practice throughout the Marine Corps when eating outdoors, chow at a resaturant, a bag nasty at work, or MRE's out in the field. Is to take your cover off, its always been that way. The Marine that corrected you was in the right. Semper :marine:

Correction: Unless your in an area that specifically deligates you don't take your cover, or kevlar off due to safety reasons.

Echo3Oscar, thank you. Obviously, the regs in the 2nd CivDiv are different now, but I always wondered what the deal was, and now I know.

Supersquishy
12-01-09, 10:33 AM
The standard practice throughout the Marine Corps when eating outdoors, chow at a resaturant, a bag nasty at work, or MRE's out in the field. Is to take your cover off, its always been that way. The Marine that corrected you was in the right. Semper :marine:

Correction: Unless your in an area that specifically deligates you don't take your cover, or kevlar off due to safety reasons.

to throw in a wrench, i remember out in the field that we took off our kevlars, and put on our soft covers for chow. off course that was mres were talking about not the outdoor mess with hot chow .

echo3oscar1833
12-01-09, 01:42 PM
to throw in a wrench, i remember out in the field that we took off our kevlars, and put on our soft covers for chow. off course that was mres were talking about not the outdoor mess with hot chow .


Thats true, Squish I have seen some platoons/units do it that way. I suppose I'm going off the basis of what the majority of the Units did that I belonged to. Semper :thumbup:

Garyius
12-01-09, 02:06 PM
Yep, because screwing with young Marines on their off time and enforcing a 1950s dress code in a 2010 civvie world is such a great use of your time, and will make that Marine feel better about you and the Corps.

echo3oscar1833
12-01-09, 02:09 PM
Yep, because screwing with young Marines on their off time and enforcing a 1950s dress code in a 2010 civvie world is such a great use of your time, and will make that Marine feel better about you and the Corps.

Who are you referring to?

Garyius
12-01-09, 02:18 PM
Who are you referring to?

Sorry, I meant the OP.



I got into young Devil Dog for wearing a hat indoors

echo3oscar1833
12-01-09, 02:20 PM
Sorry, I meant the OP.

OP? I confused brother you mean opposite?:marine:, Rah never mind I figured out what you ment. Its cool bro :)

Old Marine
12-01-09, 03:28 PM
From the time I was old enough to remember, I have always removed my hat whenever I sit down to eat. That is the way I was brought up by my parents, thus I still to this day do it. If my father was still on this earth and I did not remove my hat while eating, I would be promptly reminded to remove it. That's how I grew up and that is how I raised my children, who are now in their 50's and better for it.

giveen
12-01-09, 04:23 PM
Yep, because screwing with young Marines on their off time and enforcing a 1950s dress code in a 2010 civvie world is such a great use of your time, and will make that Marine feel better about you and the Corps.
The order never specifies civilian headgear or military headgear. Therefor the rules still apply.

Just because you disagree with a rule, doesnt make it any less enforced.

Lisa 23
12-01-09, 04:29 PM
The order never specifies civilian headgear or military headgear. Therefor the rules still apply.

Just because you disagree with a rule, doesnt make it any less enforced.
Refer to posts #'s 5 & 8.

giveen
12-01-09, 04:38 PM
Refer to posts #'s 5 & 8.
Ah I was refering to something else. But my point still stands, just because you don't like the rules about hats indoors doesnt mean it needs to be changed.

avenger08
12-01-09, 05:39 PM
Today while at the new MCX I got into young Devil Dog for wearing a hat indoors. A lady at the register said to me she knew Marines can't wear covers indoors, but didn't know if there was an order on this. I searched P1020.34G and could't find anything on the subject, but I am pretty sure there is a base order on this. I am curious if anyone knows where I can find the order on wearing hats indoors.

Thanks,
Sgt Horwitz


hey Sgt Horwitz, im stationed on MCAS Yuma as well, i know they have signs posted saying that the Station Order says no Hats or Headgear are Authorized for wear inside Marine Corps Buildings on station. i dont recall the exact order, but i did some research on the subject as well and could not find a Marine Corps order stating that hats are not Authorized indoors.

Phantom Blooper
12-01-09, 06:11 PM
Civilian attire


Sgt. Andrew P. Roufs
Combat Photographer

Walking through the local mall you walk past a lot of people and you notice a Marine who works down the hall from you. He is a sergeant and you are a lance Corporal. You notice that he is wearing a doo rag on his head. You, have read and know your uniform regulations. You know that under no circumstances are doo rags authorized. What do you do?

Many Marines encounter this problem and think if they say something, they will get yelled at by that superior who is wrong.
When asked about this situation Base Sergeant Major, Sgt. Maj. Cherry McPherson, said, "Young Marines should tactfully ask the superior if the uniform regulations have changed, and if that superior is a good Marine they will realize they are wrong and make the correction."

As a Marine you represent the entire Marine Corps in uniform and out of uniform. Most people can look at you and tell you are a Marine simply by your haircut, your posture or your speech.

The Marine Corps order for uniform regulations is P1020.34. Civilian attire, addressed in chapter one, is divided into three different sections: Within the United States, aboard ship and aircraft, and outside the United States. "Marines are advised to read and know the order," McPherson said. "If a Marine is not wearing proper civilian attire, they probably do not know the order, and need to ask a peer or superior who does know the order."

According to the paragraph concerning attire while aboard ship and aircraft, personnel traveling as passengers aboard military flights and ships have to wear civilian clothes in style and quality similar to the service "C" uniform. Some examples of appropriate attire include, shirts with a collar, trousers with a belt and socks with shoes.

In the United States however, the civilian attire regulations are a bit more relaxed, although Marines are still expected to hold themselves to a higher standard.

According to the paragraph on wearing civilian headgear, 'When wearing civilian headgear it will be removed when indoors… the wear of clothing articles not specifically designed to be normally worn as headgear (e.g. bandanas, doo rags…) are prohibited.'

"If you see a Marine wearing a doo rag, you need to tell him that it is not authorized, and to take it off." he order also states to wear a belt with trousers/slacks (if applicable), "if it has belt loops, wear a belt," McPherson said.

Many Marines continually break or disregard regulations concerning the wear of their camouflage utility uniforms off base.
"If it is an emergency and you need gas or are picking up uniform items from the cleaners, that's not a problem, but shopping at the grocery store is not allowed… basically short visits are okay," she said.

To prevent any problem, Marines can be proactive. "If I know I will need to stop on my way home, I will bring civilian attire to work with me. Other than that I will not stop while in the utility uniform," said Halton.

The Marine Corps has civilian attire regulations so Marines will hold themselves to a higher standard while in town, it allows Marines to be proud of what they wear while on liberty and leave.

Marines who don't follow these regulations are subject to disciplinary action that can range from correction on the spot to non-judicial punishment.

"If I caught one of my Marines improperly wearing their utilities in town, I would correct them on the spot, the first time; the second time I would counsel the Marine and bring it to higher authority and suggest if they like wearing their uniform in town so
much, to make them wear their service uniform instead of civilian attire… it is a privilege not a right to wear civilian attire."

http://www.ala.usmc.mil/pao/emblem/2005/02/10/Civilian%20attire%20local.asp

MD8724
12-01-09, 06:52 PM
Doo-rags aren't designed as headgear ?

Phantom Blooper
12-01-09, 06:58 PM
Not in the sense of Marine Corps cover,civilian baseball type caps and cowboy hats.

Doo rags were originially designed to wear to the rack with the grease that some wear on the hair to keep the pillow case from being slimey.....then it became shiek....sorta like some woman wearing a bandanna to the commissary on a bad hair day with curlers on her gourd.:evilgrin:

MD8724
12-01-09, 07:46 PM
Learn something new everyday.

Quinbo
12-04-09, 08:26 AM
My memory sometimes is pretty bad so bare with me. I can't remember a single time removing headgear in the field to eat chow. I can't think of even one. Whether it was MRE's or hot wets I can't think of a single time removing headgear (cover, helmet, boonie) to eat chow in the field.

Phantom Blooper
12-04-09, 08:35 AM
Me either not with rats or hot.. brought to the field.

Sometimes went from steel pot to soft cover.

The only time in the field I remember on long term ops if a mess tent with tables was set up it was considered a mess hall and one took off the cover.:evilgrin:

Daristeiad
11-16-14, 12:22 PM
MCO P1020.34G w CH 1-5 states in Chapter 1, Section 1005.2A: 'Onboard military installations...civilian headgear will be removed indoors in accordance with established norms."

Established norms change over time so I did an internet search of the issue. A majority of the unscientific polls done show around 70% of people think it is ok to wear a hat indoors if not in a formal/official situation.

http://www.walternelson.com/dr/hatiquette says that public and retail establishments have historically been places to keep your hat on.

Unscientific polls:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.246764-Poll-Hats-Wearing-Indoors-Rude
http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=39463
http://forums.govteen.com/countdown-forum/273193-rude-wear-hats-indoors.html
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/do-you-consider-indoor-hat-wearing-rude.316989/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-vanity-fair-poll-etiquette/

Old Marine
11-16-14, 01:08 PM
MCO P1020.34G w CH 1-5 states in Chapter 1, Section 1005.2A: 'Onboard military installations...civilian headgear will be removed indoors in accordance with established norms."

Established norms change over time so I did an internet search of the issue. A majority of the unscientific polls done show around 70% of people think it is ok to wear a hat indoors if not in a formal/official situation.

http://www.walternelson.com/dr/hatiquette says that public and retail establishments have historically been places to keep your hat on.

Unscientific polls:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.246764-Poll-Hats-Wearing-Indoors-Rude
http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=39463
http://forums.govteen.com/countdown-forum/273193-rude-wear-hats-indoors.html
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/do-you-consider-indoor-hat-wearing-rude.316989/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-vanity-fair-poll-etiquette/

We are talking Marine Corps here and civilian polls mean zilch.

FistFu68
11-16-14, 04:17 PM
Outdoors my Cover is My Roof indoors I do it as a sign of Respect by removing it but now that Society is a very disrespectful place @ most times I do as I please sooo is you come 2 my House 2 Eat You remove the Cover or You don't Eat ! I come 2 your place I wear my Cover put my boots on your Table act like You don't mean mean chit in the Scheme of things HaHaHa

josephd
11-16-14, 05:30 PM
We are talking Marine Corps here and civilian polls mean zilch.

holy $hit, something i actually agree with you on

I was taught from a young age that you take your hat off when indoors and/or eating at a table. It's simply just being polite. There shouldn't have to be a MCO on this, it should just be something that everyone does as a social norm.

Daristeiad
11-16-14, 05:46 PM
@Old Marine
All non combat uniform regulations are balanced by what image they present to civilians. In this case civilian views need to be even more scrutinized because we are talking about civilian attire. This is the reason Marines do not were utility uniforms off base.

The Marine Corps is nothing more than a conservative (I'm not speaking about politics here) reflection of society. We change slowly over time as our society changes. This happens whether we like it or not (examples include minorities, women, and those with non heterosexual sexual orientation).

I am open to evidence that may prove otherwise but I am fairly confident you won't take the trouble to find it.

josephd
11-16-14, 05:53 PM
@Old Marine
All non combat uniform regulations are balanced by what image they present to civilians. In this case civilian views need to be even more scrutinized because we are talking about civilian attire. This is the reason Marines do not were utility uniforms off base.

The Marine Corps is nothing more than a conservative (I'm not speaking about politics here) reflection of society. We change slowly over time as our society changes. This happens whether we like it or not (examples include minorities, women, and those with non heterosexual sexual orientation).

I am open to evidence that may prove otherwise but I am fairly confident you won't take the trouble to find it.

I agree with you and your reasoning/argument, but I still have to say that removing your hat is still basic respect when entering a house or official building(not the mall, grocery store, or the like).

I choose my battles wisely, I am not going to light some Marine up for wearing a hat in civilian attire and not taking it off when going into the PX to pick up a case of beer, thats just stupid. But the chow hall, sitting down to eat, entering company office, etc...I would get irate over

Daristeiad
11-16-14, 05:57 PM
@josephd,
I find no fault in your response. The areas you speak of should absolutely require the removal of headgear. This norm hasn't changed completely but it has shifted a bit around the edges.

m14ed
11-17-14, 04:43 AM
@josephd,
I find no fault in your response.

The areas you speak of should absolutely require the removal of headgear. This norm hasn't changed completely but it has shifted a bit around the edges.

Daristeiad (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/member.php?113365-Daristeiad)
Could actually fill out his profile "IF"
he wants to be called Marine in here...

usmc923
11-17-14, 06:43 PM
:evilgrin:I know this goes against, the rules, an only Marine,s under arm,s can wear a cover indoor,s, I believe that their is no such animal as an [ unarmed Marine ] I can still kill or do a good deal of harm, even at 68!
SemperFi
Geo. Miller

Daristeiad
11-19-14, 07:19 PM
A Marine by any other label? Yep, still a Marine. Profile is updated now m14ed.

m14ed
11-20-14, 03:06 AM
Daristeiad (http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/member.php?113365-Daristeiad) understands,,,


IT's a "Marine thing"
sorta like , I'll show her mine
if she'll show me hers.


Welcome aboard,

madsox
11-24-14, 09:12 AM
Outdoors my Cover is My Roof indoors I do it as a sign of Respect by removing it but now that Society is a very disrespectful place @ most times I do as I please sooo is you come 2 my House 2 Eat You remove the Cover or You don't Eat ! I come 2 your place I wear my Cover put my boots on your Table act like You don't mean mean chit in the Scheme of things HaHaHa

There ya go, you just causin' trouble again, Jack!
:banana:

Me, I still have this habit of taking off whatever I'm wearing on my head when I go indoors. Grocery store, library, whatever. Visit a church? Hat comes off. Unless I'm in somebody's synagogue, there I wear appropriate headgear.

But Fist-bro, you're welcome to wear your cover in my house. Boots on the furniture, though? I'll let my wife deal with that. You do not want her lightin' you up, I swear she was a DI in a former life!

:evilgrin:

FistFu68
11-24-14, 12:06 PM
HaHa Yup heard that S/Sgt Cowboy last thing this ole Cowboy wants 2 do is upset the Boss Mare when I come 2 your Home it shall B...Yes Ma'am No Ma'am w/Cover off & take My Boots off @ the front door @ oh & yes I do shower Daily Lol ;) GodBless Ya Marine Go Easy Semper Fi